I'm beginning to feel "held hostage" by Steam/Valve.
- Thread starter SoulUnison
- Start date
Haunted
Member
Literally the only saltiness towards Valve I can honestly, truly understand and empathise with is if they were your favourite developer for creating seminal singleplayer titles in the Half-Life games.
And they aren't doing that anymore.
That said, Valve's contribution to PC gaming, the PC as a platform and fuck it, probably the gaming industry in general have been unmatched by pretty much other company in the last decade.
And they aren't doing that anymore.
That said, Valve's contribution to PC gaming, the PC as a platform and fuck it, probably the gaming industry in general have been unmatched by pretty much other company in the last decade.
We need a automatic bot on GAF that replaces 'Valve doesn't make games anymore' into 'Valve doesn't make the games I want to play'.
The constant intellectual dishonesty about the former statement getting repeated ad nauseous by people on this forum that should know better is really annoying and baffling.
The constant intellectual dishonesty about the former statement getting repeated ad nauseous by people on this forum that should know better is really annoying and baffling.
The fuck? Do you guys just make shit up because your urked at all the good will sent Valve's way?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I like Valve. But basically this. They own GMG and Humble Store just due to 90% of their games being Steam Keys. Their idea of revolutionizing the industry and staying relevant is.... a console that comes pre-loaded with Steam.
People like to confuse 'Good Business Practices' with 'Caring About The Consumer'.
Yea exactly. I'd argue Steamworks is far more preferable than potential alternatives (I shudder at the thought of something like a Starforce client if Steam didn't exist
). I mean, games can have additional hardware or client DRM on top of the optional Steamworks DRM, but if all a game requires is Steam to be open I can accept that. I avoid any other type of DRM like the plague.That said, I do agree with some of the criticisms in here about Valve's priorities with Steam in general. For example, it would be nice if they weren't so focused on turning Steam into a micro-transaction casino (cards, gems, auctions, etc.), but if those features have been profitable and popular I can't really hold it against them.
"Good" is debatable, though. For instance, it used to be that a very small minority would complain about the lack of controller support. Now with so many people moving from consoles to PC and Valve's intense focus on big picture, the "console pre-loaded with Steam" (your accurate description), we actually get AAA games with lousy M+KB control, which would've sounded insane back in 2004 when Steam was launched.
So, is it good for their business? Perhaps, but not for the PC industry and PC gamers. More effort was put into making Big Picture Mode than the steam client itself. Their customer support is absolutely outrageous, which is also good for them but not for us.
I could go on about their lack of quality control on what they sell, such as broken games et cetera, but I think everyone knows what Steam's problems are. I guess that most people don't care because they have too many games in it already and don't like any of the alternatives.
"very small minority"?? Speaking of debatable...
cicero
Member
Never considered it a friend/enemy relationship to begin with. Consumer/retailer relationship is more relevant, and I find it quite natural to become attached to the products/services that I invest my money into that I find superior or beneficial to me. Who wouldn't become "attached" after spending thousands of dollars and having the limited conditional access to their goods restricted through a proprietary client to their service? I want to see it succeed because the future of my investment depends on it. On that basis alone anyone should be incredibly "attached". Then there is the superior to any other digital distribution hub low cost easy to use quality of service and enormous selection of titles that they provide...
Before 2004?
Well, as far as we know, if Steam is shut down forever for some reason, everyone will be able to download their games before it's gone, and Gabe says they've tested it already. I don't think that will happen anytime soon, and your "investment" (hardly the right term, since there is no wealth to be created) doesn't depend on Steam's success, unless Valve is full of shit and if they shut Steam down everyone loses their games forever.
Not that I doubt it could happen, but I think that would be a new low for any company.
Yes? People have wanted gamepads and joysticks on their PCs since the 80's. It's the reason the gameport standard was developed in the first place. You know, the original standard that everyone supported years and years ago?
freenudemacusers
Member
i never imagined the 'a question from a non hugger' thread would be leapfrogged so soon.
cicero
Member
Amazon has left the building. The complete lack of comparable replacement for Tony and clearly lowered level of activity towards the various PC communities they once pursued is pretty clear evidence for this reasonable assumption. They spent years "working" on a solution to their digital purchases section issues and they still couldn't get it right. I don't see them coming up with a client to compete, at this point I think that they are too big to be competent enough to make it work.
Google would be a joke. Who would trust them? I certainly don't. They aren't a retailer in this space, they have no experience, they have a history of killing off popular projects or forcing people to tie into other Google services. And they have a history of anti-consumer privacy and censorship issues etc. They are what MS was in the 90s.
Apple has been famously anti-gaming oriented since forever. Until the iPhone it was basically considered a necessary evil. I don't see success with games and iOS in their own little closed system as being indicative of potential success in a service that would have to widely appeal to other platforms beyond their own. Assuming they would even try for anything beyond their Apple TV to begin with. I don't consider a library of iOS apps and games being played on my TV as anywhere near comparable to a Steambox and Steam library.
As for GOG, I myself prefer them to Steam, because Anti-DRM. I would like to see them compete on a larger scale with Valve, but I think it is somewhat far-fetched at this point when they seem to be struggling a bit. Hopefully Galaxy succeeds, and they can pickup more publishers and retain those like Nordic who may desire to leave because GOG refuses to do regional pricing.
A console"generation reset" isn't even relatable to PC gaming or Valve. There is no giant pressing mistake that Valve has made that cannot be fixed, seeing as how they are a service and not relegated to a closed static hardware environment. They exist on the most open and upgradeable platform in existence, their customers tend to desire ease of use through consolidation of their game libraries and stability, which would be destroyed by random upheaval to maintain some illusion of the need for some artificial competition in the marketplace. Your analogy is seriously flawed.
They've also been increasing at a pretty steady rate in number of unique monthly players, ran an enormously successful tournament and have announced substantial updates for the next year.
I don't know how you'd describe suffering but showing month on month improvement isn't the definition I would use. The server issues are more widespread than Dota 2 as well but I wouldn't say that Sony and Xbox are suffering because of large DDoS attacks either.
cicero
Member
My continued access to the content I have bought conditional access to absolutely does depend on Steam's success. If they did go down, I simply wouldn't have the time to back them all up, or money to spend on HDs to back up 1700+ titles and 600ish DLC. And what guarantees are there for titles that require Steamworks or online access?? What happens once Gabe dies? Who controls the company, would they sell out, go public? I AM investing when I put my money into Steam purchases. The future benefits I am investing for is long-term access to a digital service that provides access to products I don't currently control. I can HOPE that I would be allowed to backup the titles I purchased access to if they went down. I have no proof that it would exist or wouldn't be changed if something happened to Gabe. That is reality.
Except this is what he was quoting when he said that:
He was specifically talking about performance issues of their online infrastructure. The game may be doing well numbers wise but it is ailing as far as their server structure. Dota has increased at a steady clip but these issues have been happening for 6 months plus and getting steadily worse.
The suffering is in the care they receive not in the interest from the public. Valve should be able to keep up with steady growth, it's not like a huge number of people just suddenly decided, "Dota!" It's been steady enough to keep up with if they cared to.
You should read up on how valve works. Gabe Newell doesn't run valve, nor does he decide what Valve does.
Steam, its sale, and regional pricing are the best things that ever happened to my gaming budget. That with Valve support to modding and Linux, make them unmatched in my eyes.
They need to screw up really really bad to even make me consider done with them. They give me good service, I reward them. How hard that to comprehend?
And the "me" mentality in this thread is appalling. Steam give more access to game to enter its market? Steam sucks. Steam support game I hate? Steam sucks. Steam give better price to countries with lower income? Steam sucks. WTF.
They need to screw up really really bad to even make me consider done with them. They give me good service, I reward them. How hard that to comprehend?
And the "me" mentality in this thread is appalling. Steam give more access to game to enter its market? Steam sucks. Steam support game I hate? Steam sucks. Steam give better price to countries with lower income? Steam sucks. WTF.
CosmicQueso
Member
Without Steam, the PC space would look nothing like it does today. It would look a lot more like mobile, always online f2p everywhere.
Wiktor
Member
You didn't understand me. You still need to have a key and activate it on Steam before downloading. All DRM-free means on Steam is that you later don't need to use the client to launch. But it still kills any ability to resell your games. So it's stil a form of DRM
But they aren't making half life 3 so fuck em. Just kidding but I do wish something would force valve to stop with the ftp trendy gaming bs and get back to pushing real gaming boundaries with half life or portal. Those are amazing experiences. Wow me valve, I wish to be wowed.
alexandros
Banned
That will never happen. Once Gaben's mortal coil is spent, Valve will upload his consciousness to the Steam servers and then Gabe and Steam will be one and the same. Then, Valve's New World Order will arise. Hail
An employee handbook doesn't dictate reality. He absolutely does determine it.
On topic: I think I kind of understand, but Valve provides way too much value for me to get even an ounce upset. They certainly could be doing some things better, but they have their priorities.
CosmicQueso
Member
If I were a betting person, I'd bet that the correlation between those negative on Valve in the thread and those unhappy with the new cross region trading restrictions is pretty high.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
I like GOG better, i stopped using steam once all those shenanigans started happening on steam.
Yes. Gog.com pretended to be going out of business, and shut down its web page for a few days. As a promotion for some new shit.
Valve hasnt done that. Valve >>>>>>>>>> gog.
I will never buy a game from a company that would do something so stupid.
This is the equivalent of crying about your mate not paying back that 5 cents he took from you all those years ago. Get over it.
Wiktor
Member
On the other hand Gog never blackmailed it's userbase to give up their rights just so they could go around a court verdict that wasn't in their favor.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Fahrenheit
Banned
Steam has the fastest severs for downloading games, most reliable and hassle free cloud save backups. Origin is the only thing that comes close to Steam and that has worse pricing. Even on launch nights of a big game the severs still give me 30ish gbs downloading.
Let me see Uplay or GoG do that. Or even XBL or PSN, trying for a big game on XBL or PSN on launch night? Just go to bed and catch it in the morning.
Let me see Uplay or GoG do that. Or even XBL or PSN, trying for a big game on XBL or PSN on launch night? Just go to bed and catch it in the morning.
CecilRousso
Member
It's not so much about them being friends, but as to them being a company whose products are made with the best interest of the customers. Which I think they are. Even if a companies goal is to make money, and even if they arent perfect.
I'm sure if Steam shut down a couple of days to promote something, you'd think that was awesome too, right?
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Kinda, offline mode works now so I'd be fine. I just appreciate the craziness of pretending to go bankrupt. I don't know the backstory of GOG pretending to shut down, though. If they did it to demonstrate their DRM free games work fine even if GOG goes under then that's one hell of a promotion, no?
cicero
Member
Gabe was the co-founder and is current managing director of Valve Corporation, he also happens to own more than 50% of the company. If you think that the current corporate structure magically came into existence without the direct input and decisions by Gabe, and that it couldn't "magically" alter again if he died and control of his control of Valve shifted to someone else with different ideas about how the company should be run, or be sold out to another company, you are really quite ignorant and naive.
Valve is structured and run the way it is because Gabe made specific decisions, because he has the power to do so. Whoever his stock would go to would also have that same control. This is really quite basic stuff here.
Wait, you can resell DRM free games?
I mean, did you ever resell a DRM free game? Is there a market for that?
I'm asking because I have a couple of games in my GOG library I don't care for and I'd like some spare change to fuel my Steam sales spending spree.
twdnewh_k
Member
Valve and Steam are 1 of the best things to happen to gaming. This platform has played a big part in pushing PC to where it is today, and has grown and evolved during the years to the greatness we have today.
Yes, there are things to complain about; but in the grand scheme of things, Steam has done so many things right.
I find comments about Valve pushing Steam OS and Steam Machines very funny. If you are not interested, then you have the option to stay away; they are not forcing anything on anyone.
Yes, there are things to complain about; but in the grand scheme of things, Steam has done so many things right.
I find comments about Valve pushing Steam OS and Steam Machines very funny. If you are not interested, then you have the option to stay away; they are not forcing anything on anyone.
Bomber Bob
Banned
Steam Cloud
Cheeseman Battitude
Member
And he stepped in and got Hatred put back on, which pretty much proves he can do what he wants.
Wiktor
Member
Most services don't allow. even GOG. Therefore there's no real digital DRM-free games. Those exist solely in physical combat.
cicero
Member
No, it was a horrible PR stunt. Because a major part of any digital distribution service is trust and stability, which in part means the continued the ability to readily access the products you buy through the internet. I had probably 150 games backed up on a HD about two weeks before it happened. But I needed space so I deleted them all, expecting to get them again at my leisure. Then two weeks later I checked for a possible sale and couldn't get through. Everything was down without notice or official comment of any kind. Soon we had thousands of people commenting in various threads on different forums trying to research out WTF was going on. People were checking polish sites and financial data, scouring everything. Crazy rumors were flying for literally DAYS. If felt like a physical kick to the gut, I was quite enraged, and then they relaunched the site and suddenly it was all "haha it was only a creative way to relaunch the site and we would do it again because it worked, we had 20x the traffic to site".
I was close to quitting them entirely, but their PR stupidity was so brazen and stupid, and they believed in its creativeness even after the huge backlash...I found that too stupidly "innocent" rather than intentionally beguiling or duplicitous behavior.
Good lesson though. Don't trust any retailer. Ever. DRM-Free and the ability to control what we buy is the ultimate consumer right as consumers of digital games. Anything else leaves you open to the capricious whims of the retailers or random events beyond our control.
Oh please.
Why would I want to put my money into a company so inept it would think, at any stage, that pretending to go out of business, including shutting down their site, was a good idea.
*Imagines posts people would make if Steam did the same thing.
Oh wait I cant imagine, because the internet would die. Permanently.
CecilRousso
Member
Yep.
It's one thing to wish for them to improve the performance of the client, how they handle support, tone down the meta game stuff a bit, etc.
But when you wish that they would go away completely, what do you expect would take it's place?
If you wish a competitor would take it's throne now, what competitor is that? And GOG isn't an answer since a large number of the major publishers would not accept DRM free versions at the launch of their games.
And if you wish that Steam wouldn't have gained the popularity it has, in what state do you think PC gaming would be now instead? Which other similiar platform would have the trone right now. Games for Windows Live?
Gog games are truly DRM free. You can just copy paste the game and each copy will work. It doesn't make sense for such a product to be resellebal because you could just keep a copy for yourself and copy it for anyone that wants it, without restriction.
You can't do that with a physical console game because it has DRM (on the disk)! DRM doesn't mean it isn't resellable.
Why are we thinking about the shutting down of Steam if Valve kicks the bucket ?
Steam is the golden goose of PC gaming and is worth Millions ( billions ?) are you really thinking not one company would move heaven and earth to buy it and have that 80 million installbase and that is still growing ?
whether or not the change of management would be beneficial to us consumers or not is debatable but i very much doubt Steam is going away anytime soon with or without Valve .
Steam is the golden goose of PC gaming and is worth Millions ( billions ?) are you really thinking not one company would move heaven and earth to buy it and have that 80 million installbase and that is still growing ?
whether or not the change of management would be beneficial to us consumers or not is debatable but i very much doubt Steam is going away anytime soon with or without Valve .
GrandHarrier
Member
I just wish they curated games better. Or let me. Please for the love of God let me screen out all Early Access games and/or choose categories I don't ever play to not see.
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