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[Mibu no ookami]

Your problem is that you argue out of ignorance, sprinkled with your usual bias.

in May 2024 Circana report, MLB the Show 24 was the 2nd best selling game on PlayStation in the U.S. your claim that the sales and revenue crater after the first month is absolute BS.

Where did I say sales crater after the first month. I said the first month are the strongest sales. What new releases do you see on this list that MLB The Show 24 is outselling? There isn't a single new release on the list.

To also put things in perspective, MLB The Show 22 was several places above Gran Turismo 7 in the May 2022 NPD and consistently outsold it on PlayStation for the rest of the year (I checked until August).

You should probably get better at this. Gran Turismo is an evergreen game. It's been selling consistently well since it released and got an even further boost by the movie, especially when it released on streaming. Do you see MLB The Show 22 on the 2024 charts?

I guess your argument now is that Gran Turismo 7 wasn't a hit?

So yeah, Gran Turismo 7 was a hit. It's easily sold over 10 million copies, which Forza isn't going to sniff.

If Sony put Spider-Man on Switch 2 and it sold 2 million copies, that wouldn't be a huge success.

Why would that be the 'mark' when it's multiple places above it? it's a benchmark of sorts, nothing more.
If a late port that many owners have already experienced on other platforms instill selling very well, it's clear subsequent new entries are going to do very well indeed.

See above. There's no evidence that this late port was experienced by PlayStation players on other platforms. The argument before this game came out was that it was going to be a huge hit. There's no evidence of that.

 

[Karim]

​

 

[Ozriel]

You should probably get better at this. Gran Turismo is an evergreen game. It's been selling consistently well since it released and got an even further boost by the movie, especially when it released on streaming. Do you see MLB The Show 22 on the 2024 charts?

So yeah, Gran Turismo 7 was a hit. It's easily sold over 10 million copies, which Forza isn't going to sniff.

So Gran Turismo 7 is an 'evergreen hit' even when it was consistently outsold by the MLB release of that year, but Forza Horizon 5 is underwhelming because it was behind MLB the Show 25 for parts of May 2025?

What metric did you use to determine that FH5 isn't also 'evergreen'? Afterall like tTHANOSs shared earlier, it's remained in the top 5 paid games for the UK, CA and Australia PlayStation store.

Why would I look for MLB 2022 in the 2024 charts when it's an annual franchise? Ive used the proper analogue here, which is to compare 22's monthly sales in 2022 to GT7 which launched in the same 2022.

If Sony put Spider-Man on Switch 2 and it sold 2 million copies, that wouldn't be a huge success.

Funny you mention it. Here's Sony being very happy at the sales of their late ports of a few games on PC…despite the sales being significant lower than the earlier console release

 

[Mibu no ookami]

So Gran Turismo 7 is an 'evergreen hit' even when it was consistently outsold by the MLB release of that year, but Forza Horizon 5 is underwhelming because it was behind MLB the Show 25 for parts of May 2025?

What metric did you use to determine that FH5 isn't also 'evergreen'? Afterall like tTHANOSs shared earlier, it's remained in the top 5 paid games for the UK, CA and Australia PlayStation store.

Why would I look for MLB 2022 in the 2024 charts when it's an annual franchise? Ive used the proper analogue here, which is to compare 22's monthly sales in 2022 to GT7 which launched in the same 2022.



Funny you mention it. Here's Sony being very happy at the sales of their late ports of a few games on PC…despite the sales being significant lower than the earlier console release

You could have argued that you thought Forza Horizon 5 is going to be evergreen... that's not the argument that you made. Your argument was that it had a great opening and is a hit game on PS5.

You overshot and now you're moving the goalposts.

If you knew what you were talking about you'd know that GT7 continues to sell well year in and year out. It might not outsell MLB especially on multiple platforms ever year, but it continues to accumulate sales.

Forza Horizon is going to dip off the charts. That's just a reality.

No one expected Sony's PC games to sell better on PC than on PS4/5. People did assume FH5 was going to immediately become a top game on PS5...

 

[IDKFA]

Makes sense.

Most people on Xbox have Gamepass and would have played the game through that service.

 

[Ozriel]

Your argument was that it had a great opening

Well, yes. It had a great opening. 2nd best selling game of April 2025 in the U.S., only behind Oblivion remastered. #1 or #2 in most PlayStation stores on release.

and is a hit game on PS5.

Hard for you to argue it's not a hit game given how you've made similar argument for GT7

You overshot and now you're moving the goalposts.

If you knew what you were talking about you'd know that GT7 continues to sell well year in and year out. It might not outsell MLB especially on multiple platforms ever year, but it continues to accumulate sales.

Forza Horizon is going to dip off the charts. That's just a reality.

Looking at the 'Best of Steam' awards Valve puts out, Forza Horizon 5 was a Gold seller in 2021 and 2022 and silver in 2023 and 2024. Nothing screams 'evergreen' more than that. Why would it perform drastically different on PS?

There's absolutely nothing indicating that it'll dip off the charts any more than, say, GT7.

You tried to pitch it dropping below the current year's MLB as evidence that it's struggling, but have since desperately tried to rejig goalposts after being shown the same thing happened to GT7

No one expected Sony's PC games to sell better on PC than on PS4/5. People did assume FH5 was going to immediately become a top game on PS5...

Again, it's hovered in the top of pretty much ever PlayStation chart since release.
Not sure what your criteria for spotlighting 'top games' but I'm pretty sure being #2 on NPD is a great sign.

Spirited and increasingly confused arguments from you, but at least…

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Well, yes. It had a great opening. 2nd best selling game of April 2025 in the U.S., only behind Oblivion remastered. #1 or #2 in most PlayStation stores on release.

Somehow you think position in a given month is a sign of success... it was behind Oblivion, what was it ahead of?

Hard for you to argue it's not a hit game given how you've made similar argument for GT7

Again, GT7 has had legs for years... you seem to be purposefully obtuse here.

Looking at the 'Best of Steam' awards Valve puts out, Forza Horizon 5 was a Gold seller in 2021 and 2022 and silver in 2023 and 2024. Nothing screams 'evergreen' more than that. Why would it perform drastically different on PS?

I made no mention of the success of FH5 on PC...

There's absolutely nothing indicating that it'll dip off the charts any more than, say, GT7.

LOL... keep telling yourself that.

You tried to pitch it dropping below the current year's MLB as evidence that it's struggling, but have since desperately tried to rejig goalposts after being shown the same thing happened to GT7

Where did I say GT7 was a hit out of the gates. It got review bombed early on. It has had sustained success since and has gone on to be one of the best selling GT games on PlayStation.

Again, it's hovered in the top of pretty much ever PlayStation chart since release.
Not sure what your criteria for spotlighting 'top games' but I'm pretty sure being #2 on NPD is a great sign..

How many units did it sell?

Spirited and increasingly confused arguments from you, but at least…

The irony...

 

[Mattyp]

So yeah, Gran Turismo 7 was a hit. It's easily sold over 10 million copies, which Forza isn't going to sniff.

If Sony put Spider-Man on Switch 2 and it sold 2 million copies, that wouldn't be a huge success.

How isn't it? It's $100 million in revenue and pays for the games development Sony would be happy with that. They wouldn't waste their time releasing on PC if 2 million sales wasn't worth it to them.

Let's see the numbers of FH6 day and date, a large base of Sony gamers already would have owned and been playing 5 on other platforms.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

How isn't it? It's $100 million in revenue and pays for the games development Sony would be happy with that. They wouldn't waste their time releasing on PC if 2 million sales wasn't worth it to them.

Let's see the numbers of FH6 day and date, a large base of Sony gamers already would have owned and been playing 5 on other platforms.

Have to factor in the level of reputational damage...

Putting your games on PC years later is one thing, putting your games on your chief competitor even years later is another.

If Sony decided to put Spider-Man on Switch, I wouldn't be surprised, but I don't think they'd be happy with 2 million units.

You're overstating the number of people with multiple platforms.

 

[Mattyp]

You're overstating the number of people with multiple platforms.

Every person on this site has multiple platforms, the majority of gamers do.

What number would you consider of the 70 million PlayStation5 owners having a PC or Xbox? It's into the 10s of millions that's for sure.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Every person on this site has multiple platforms, the majority of gamers do.

What number would you consider of the 70 million PlayStation5 owners having a PC or Xbox? It's into the 10s of millions that's for sure.

Neogaf has what less than 20K members? How do you make arguments so badly and yet expect to be taken seriously.

NPD: 72% Of U.S. Plays Games, Only 2-3% Own Multiple Consoles

Sales tracking group NPD has announced the results of a new gaming study, showing that 72 percent of the U.S. say they played games, online play still lagging behind offline, and an overwhelming minority owning more than one next-gen system.

www.gamedeveloper.com

You're not good at this...

 

[Astray]

The big problem with a lot of sales discussions is they eventually boil down to trying to read the tea leaves. We just get so little visibility these days and it kinda harmed gaming discussions imo.

It's basically impossible to discern sales performance in its entirety when games are digital and we don't have specific numbers anyways.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The big problem with a lot of sales discussions is they eventually boil down to trying to read the tea leaves. We just get so little visibility these days and it kinda harmed gaming discussions imo.

It's basically impossible to discern sales performance in its entirety when games are digital and we don't have specific numbers anyways.

Not sure I agree completely.

When we get announcements of games sales it helps us create some likely ceilings around other games.

 

[adamsapple]

Neogaf has what less than 20K members? How do you make arguments so badly and yet expect to be taken seriously.

NPD: 72% Of U.S. Plays Games, Only 2-3% Own Multiple Consoles

Sales tracking group NPD has announced the results of a new gaming study, showing that 72 percent of the U.S. say they played games, online play still lagging behind offline, and an overwhelming minority owning more than one next-gen system.

www.gamedeveloper.com

You're not good at this...

Quoting a 2008 article and telling someone else 'you're not good at this'.

How very Mibu.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Quoting a 2008 article.

How very Mibu.

So you think that things have changed given the increased homogeneity of platforms?

 

[adamsapple]

So you think that things have changed given the increased homogeneity of platforms?

Yes.

The report also found that US gamers spend an average of 14.5 hours a week playing video games. The average player uses at least three different devices, with 65% of gamers playing on mobile, with over a third using PC and console.

Circana: 71% of US engage with video games

71% of US consumers play video games, according to Circana's 2024 Gamer Segmentation Report.

www.gamesindustry.biz

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yes.

Circana: 71% of US engage with video games

71% of US consumers play video games, according to Circana's 2024 Gamer Segmentation Report.

www.gamesindustry.biz

You should have stopped as soon as you saw that included mobile...

 

[adamsapple]

You should have stopped as soon as you saw that included mobile...

And you should have stopped when the article you quoted is two decades removed from us. But here we are.

 

[ResilientBanana]

This is great! We need decent developers to stay alive. I would have preferred a third person Indy game though.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

And you should have stopped when the article you quoted is two decades removed from us. But here we are.

According to SIE internal surveys, almost half of PlayStation 5 owners in the United States also own a Nintendo Switch, while less than 20% of PlayStation 5 owners in the United States also own an Xbox Series X or S.

Sony’s confidential PlayStation secrets just spilled because of a Sharpie

Confidential information includes how much Sony spends on games

www.theverge.com

 

[adamsapple]

Almost half of PlayStation 5 owners in the United States also own a Nintendo Switch

Oh man, thanks for that self-own Mibu no ookami

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Oh man, thanks for that self-own Mibu no ookami

Are we talking about Switch or are we talking about the number of people who would have bought Forza Horizon 5 on Xbox and own a PS5 and don't want to buy it because they already have it...

Clownish..

 

[adamsapple]

Are we talking about Switch or are we talking about the number of people who would have bought Forza Horizon 5 on Xbox and own a PS5 and don't want to buy it because they already have it...

Clownish..

Ok?

The 2008 NPD article you used as solid evidence says 2-3% total multiplatform owners. The second 'zinger' you posted says around 20% just for Xbox and PS cross-over, while citing 50% for Switch owners separately.

That's a 1000% increase over your own initial challenge.

Clownish indeed.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Ok?

The 2008 NPD article you used as solid evidence says 2-3% total multiplatform owners. The second 'zinger' you posted says around 20% just for Xbox and PS cross-over, while citing 50% for Switch owners separately.

That's a 1000% increase over your own initial challenge.

Clownish indeed.

It does not say around 20% it says less than 20%. I get that reading isn't your strong suit, but you should try harder.

The linked data also doesn't mention anything about handheld crossover.

Clownish indeed.

 

[Sooner]

As a Thunder fan, I'm not happy with Indiana today.

 

[adamsapple]

It does not say around 20% it says less than 20%. I get that reading isn't your strong suit, but you should try harder.

The linked data also doesn't mention anything about handheld crossover.

Clownish indeed.

Even if it's 19%, aka "less than 20%", it's still going to be a 900% increase over the 2008 article you tried to pass off before.

Or as someone said just a few posts above .. "How do you make arguments so badly and expect to be taken seriously"

I mean damn .. my guy really posted an article from 2008 as a zinger.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Even if it's 19%, aka "less than 20%", it's still going to be a 900% increase over the 2008 article you tried to pass off before.

Or as someone said just a few posts above .. "How do you make arguments so badly and expect to be taken seriously"

I mean damn .. my guy really posted an article from 2008 as a zinger.

Look at you pulling 19% in hopes that you don't sound as silly....

Less than 20% has a range from 0 percent to 19.9%. No actual number has been given here other than it is below 20%.

 

[Ozriel]

It does not say around 20% it says less than 20%. I get that reading isn't your strong suit, but you should try harder.

The linked data also doesn't mention anything about handheld crossover.

Clownish indeed.

"It says less than 20% so technically my 2-3% figure is still likely correct"

Look at you pulling 19% in hopes that you don't sound as silly....

Less than 20% has a range from 0 percent to 19.9%. No actual number has been given here other than it is below 20%.

Realistically, nobody sane would be citing anything in the 0-10% range as 'less than 20%'.

 

[adamsapple]

"It says less than 20% so technically my 2-3% figure is still likely correct"

I can't believe he posted the self-own himself, lol. I wasn't gonna spend any time googling these stats.

My guy also said "Neogaf has what less than 20K members?"

I mean holy shit.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

What number would you consider of the 70 million PlayStation5 owners having a PC or Xbox? It's into the 10s of millions that's for sure.

At 77 million PS5s sold, 20% would equate to 15.4 million units. With XBox Series likely under 30 million units, that would mean that half the people who own XSX or XSS own a PS5...

If you believe that, there's no helping you guys.

 

[Ozriel]

Somehow you think position in a given month is a sign of success... it was behind Oblivion, what was it ahead of?

You literally claimed it was beginning to struggle because of its chart position in a given week

Again, GT7 has had legs for years... you seem to be purposefully obtuse here.



I made no mention of the success of FH5 on PC...

And FH5 has had legs for years on every platform it's been on.

Obviously it's only been out on PS5 for under 2 months, so it's perfectly adequate logic to use its PC performance as an analogue.

Where did I say GT7 was a hit out of the gates. It got review bombed early on. It has had sustained success since and has gone on to be one of the best selling GT games on PlayStation.

But by your logic this cannot be true, since it slipped below MLB The Show 22?

How many units did it sell?

After making multiple posts in this thread using chart position, you're moving goalposts to 'chart position is irrelevant'?

 

[Ozriel]

At 77 million PS5s sold, 20% would equate to 15.4 million units. With XBox Series likely under 30 million units, that would mean that half the people who own XSX or XSS own a PS5...

If you believe that, there's no helping you guys.

You really have a problem with assimilating and understanding data. Sony's survey covers the United States only. Where's the sense in using that percentage to apply to the global PS5 sales figure, when the U.S. is one of Xbox's strongest markets and sales there are atypical of the picture in Europe, emerging markets and Asia?

My word, you're really struggling here.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You literally claimed it was beginning to struggle because of its chart position in a given week

I claim its a struggle because its behind MLB The Show which has been out for months.

And FH5 has had legs for years on every platform it's been on.

Obviously it's only been out on PS5 for under 2 months, so it's perfectly adequate logic to use its PC performance as an analogue.

So what are you going to say when it drops off the first page by the end of the month?

But by your logic this cannot be true, since it slipped below MLB The Show 22?



After making multiple posts in this thread using chart position, you're moving goalposts to 'chart position is irrelevant'?

You don't understand the charts and you're really struggling to understand position, new releases vs old releases... You think chart position says everything and that I'm explaining to you that context matters and you think that is goalposts shifting?

Ironic...

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You really have a problem with assimilating and understanding data. Sony's survey covers the United States only. Where's the sense in using that percentage to apply to the global PS5 sales figure, when the U.S. is one of Xbox's strongest markets and sales there are atypical of the picture in Europe, emerging markets and Asia?

My word, you're really struggling here.

I was being generous...

The US is the strongest region for Xbox. If it's 20% in the US but less globally... how are you going to get to 10s of millions globally, when that rate would max you out at 15 million units?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

How about we make this easy.

We do account bets.

Forza falls off the first page within a month from today AND falls behind GT7 within 3 months from today and you guys close your accounts. If it stays on the first page within a month from today AND stay ahead of GT7 within 3 months from today, I'll close my account.

 

[Branded]

Chat, what is the tldr here and why is this an 11-page thread?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

adams reaction is pure evidence of his trolling...

 

[Ozriel]

I claim its a struggle because its behind MLB The Show which has been out for months.

You never seem to learn.

MLB launched a month before FH5
MLB 22 was also ahead of GT7 which you've hailed as a hit.

So what are you going to say when it drops off the first page by the end of the month?

Oh, you poor fellow. Is that what you're expecting? You're going to be so so disappointed.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You never seem to learn.

MLB launched a month before FH5
MLB 22 was also ahead of GT7 which you've hailed as a hit.

That's your logic...

First MLB was on the market for a month and a half before FH5 released. Second, it's what the 4th MLB game released on PS5?

MLB22 released after GT7 and GT7 started off strong on the NPD charts, #2 or #3 I believe. The game struggled after backlash due to the MTX and took months to find itself again.

Oh, you poor fellow. Is that what you're expecting? You're going to be so so disappointed.

So are you accepting the account ban bet?

 

[Humdinger]

Every person on this site has multiple platforms, the majority of gamers do.

No, about a quarter of the people here play only on one platform. Further, GAF is an enthusiast forum and will over-represent the percentage of casual gamers who play on multiple platforms.

Thread 'Poll: Where Do You Play Your Games? On Which Platforms?'

Jun 19, 2024

Where do you play your games? Playstation? Xbox? Switch? PC? All of the above?

I'm not trying to stir console wars here, just to get some up-to-date stats on where GAF plays. I took a similar poll back in 2018 (linked below). That was 6 years ago. I figured it was time to get some updated stats.

I could've subdivided the categories further (e.g., PS4 vs. 5, Xbox X vs. S), but that would've multiplied the permutations too much. I also excluded smartphone gaming from this analysis. If you want to complain about the poll options, go do your own damn poll, lol...

• Humdinger
• Replies: 142
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

 

[Hector Hall]

That was very easy, Xbox doesn't sell nearly games (is it on GP?? Is it on GP? And now?) and now?) and after recent data only 5% of PC users buy new releases of the last year.

That's not to say it's selling great, but hey at lest it did make it in the latest PSN monthly rankings so between that and retail it will have sold some hundred thousand units.

 

[Mattyp]

At 77 million PS5s sold, 20% would equate to 15.4 million units. With XBox Series likely under 30 million units, that would mean that half the people who own XSX or XSS own a PS5...

If you believe that, there's no helping you guys.

PC. You realise how many active steam players there is per month don't you..? Or you just being generally obtuse trying to imply I didn't include PC gamers?