crazyriddler
Member
Well, thank goodness we are consumers and what we care about are our rights as consumers and having the best possible and most complete product and not the economy of the multimillion dollar companies... right?
Indiana Jones PS5 Physical Edition requires Internet to Install
Fabieter
Member
Yea you can play most games on ps5 without an internet connection. Its just that some pubs are cheaping out.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
People who think like this don't care about when development studios go out of business or developers get laid off. And they'll be scratching their head when games end up not taking risks or take forever to develop.
The health of these companies is tied directly to the products we get. Obviously, that's no excuse for corporate greed, but gamers who obsess over physical gaming don't realize how unrealistic it is moving forward and see any moves that don't preserve it regardless of the cost as anti-consumer.
Fabieter
Member
Some people are soo happy with digital that they don't want others to have nice things anymore.
rm082e
Member
I'm not fighting against you at all. If you want physical media, go for it. It doesn't affect me in anyway so I don't care. I'm not arguing in favor of getting rid of it.
What I am saying is:
- The idea that if you get a physical copy that's playable without a download means you will have access to that game for the rest of your life ignores some of the facts. Physical media can get lost, stolen, damaged, and even corrupted over time. In each of these cases, you lose access to a game, so they are risks. I never see the folks arguing for physical media acknowledge this. They only harp on the risks/issues with digital.
- The idea that big evil corporation is going to one day execute their master plan of eliminating your access to the games you payed for just doesn't make sense. I get that there are isolated examples of this (The Crew most recently), but we have lots of services with 20+ years of history at this point and no indications that they're about to go away. Even if they were at some point in the future, they'll send out notifications letting people know. Even if you don't go download your games, someone will, they'll crack the security, and they will be available online. You'll be able to play those games, just like you can play any old game now if you put in a little bit of effort. You can even burn those games to a disc or put them on a physical drive if you want.
- Games keep progressing and part of that progress is the amount of data it takes to install them. Physical media has costs associated with larger amounts of storage. I don't want to see the developers making design choices about the game to ensure it can fit on a reasonably priced piece of physical media. I also don't want to see the cost of games go up across the board to subsidize the costs of physical media. If they want to charge more for physical media than the digital, that's fine. But as we just saw with Nintendo, they're not going that here in the US because they don't want to piss off retailers.
I can sympathize. I prefer manual transmission cars. Clearly, the rest of the world doesn't. I just bought a used Infiniti Q60S that I plan to hang onto and keep maintained for as long as I can. When the paint wears down, I'll spend the money to get it repainted. If it needs a new engine or transmission at some point, I'll pay the expensive repair bills instead of buying a newer car - even if it means buying after-market parts. I'll do this because I love driving a manual and that's what I want. But I would never go around and trash talk people who drive automatics and EVs or act like it's their fault the auto industry isn't making manual transmission cars anymore.
crazyriddler
Member
Are you really so naive to think that there is no margin to offer a quality and complete product on the disc?
The reality is that the big companies (who are the ones that finance the studios) don't give a shit about your economy and will squeeze the consumers as much as they can (and they allow them to).
Thanks to the bootlicking of the users we have since a few decades ago, games without manuals (because ecology), digital games equally expensive (wasn't it cheaper than a physical format?), paid online, games with cut content and sold apart in dlcs, lootboxes, broken games at launch as a rule, rising prices of games, games as a service, abusive DRMs, permanent online connection to play some games, and now incomplete physical games on disk....
But hey, poor companies, who's going to look out for them?
Fabieter
Member
Costs is around a dollar more if they order a big chunck and have longterm contracts with the provider. Yes insanity that people fight over this. Digital only people lose nothing when some collector has the chance to have a fully functional game on physical Hardware.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
LOL, you're a weird guy...
You always have the option to not buy something.
This game doesn't have a 3rd person mode, so I'm not buying it. FF7 Rebirth isn't turn based and I don't like the direction they're taking the story in so I didn't buy it. Persona 5 Royal on PS5 had no upgrade path and doesn't allow you to use your existing save game, so I didn't buy it.
Gamers love to complain when there is an easy enough solution. Play something else, but whining that companies have to make money to exist is a baffling one and always will be.
Games have not kept up with inflation despite teams blowing up in size. Every year developers want raises just like everyone else who has a job wants a raise. Gamers have become some of the most unrealistic entitled groups out there. I've never cared about DRM or permanently online connections. My PS5 is always connected to the internet anyways via ethernet cable. I'm not playing pirate games, so who cares about DRM. I buy all my games digitally and enjoy the benefits of being able to play those digital games without taking up any space physically and importing them to new hardware easily. I don't have to change discs out to play whatever game I want. My entire library is at my finger tips.
Maybe gaming just isn't for you anymore and that's okay too. I don't play any live service games and never will, but a lot of people enjoy these games. Boo hoo for you I guess.
darrylgorn
Member
Two years from now:
"I can't believe people complain that you need an internet connection to start your console."
crackajack
Member
so you are all for actually putting download codes in the box, because that would save studios left and right? I mean seriously. If the disc is basically worthless, they could just save its cost all together. Sell an empty box even and let the buyer print out the cover themselves and the code comes per mail. Physical is then only the box.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Sure, I don't really care.
Audiophile
Member
Easy to solve this.
1) Sony should allow for BD-25, BD-50 & BD-66 for games in addition to BD-100 to allow more flexibility. In this case, whichever is cheapest of 2x BD-66 or BD-100+BD-25. Inconvenience is irrelevant, we're already opting for the inconvenient option for a reason, so having to pop an extra disc in once during install isn't a problem.
2) Mark up the physical game to cover the cost of extra discs and to incentivise devs to actual do it, $5 should cover it. They'll make a couple dollars extra profit and gamers who care get the full game on the disc. I'd be quite happy to pay the extra little bit for the game being on the disc, knowing that it goes towards the cost of the disc and mainly incentivising the practice going forward. If a game is gargantuan in the future and needs 3-4, make it $10 if you must.
3) A couple years later, reissue the game disc with an updated version including all patches and fixes to satisfy the longer-term physical preservation angle. If it's not particularly cost effective, again charge a small premium. People who care about this stuff will pay a little extra. Sony could act as a middleman on all of this and release these versions to a "Classics" line. Further to this, the dev could have the option of releasing it under a "Complete Classics" line, where it's the same but with all additional content, akin to a GOTY edition.
I fully expect PS6 to be sold as digital only and later PS6 Slim & Pro too. With that they can offer a digital add-on drive that's marked up to act as a partial subsidy along the lines of $99. Then I suspect the digital/physical transition on PlayStation will plateau around the 80/20 mark, with the remaining 20% of game sales on physical simply being offered at a small premium. And there's no problem in my mind with offering 2, 3 or 4 discs on an additional sliding scale, they're cheap to make and stamp; and again, having to put extra discs in at install is a one time thing, it doesn't matter.
Every part of the market can be addressed appropriately, we don't always have to replace one thing with another entirely.
1) Sony should allow for BD-25, BD-50 & BD-66 for games in addition to BD-100 to allow more flexibility. In this case, whichever is cheapest of 2x BD-66 or BD-100+BD-25. Inconvenience is irrelevant, we're already opting for the inconvenient option for a reason, so having to pop an extra disc in once during install isn't a problem.
2) Mark up the physical game to cover the cost of extra discs and to incentivise devs to actual do it, $5 should cover it. They'll make a couple dollars extra profit and gamers who care get the full game on the disc. I'd be quite happy to pay the extra little bit for the game being on the disc, knowing that it goes towards the cost of the disc and mainly incentivising the practice going forward. If a game is gargantuan in the future and needs 3-4, make it $10 if you must.
3) A couple years later, reissue the game disc with an updated version including all patches and fixes to satisfy the longer-term physical preservation angle. If it's not particularly cost effective, again charge a small premium. People who care about this stuff will pay a little extra. Sony could act as a middleman on all of this and release these versions to a "Classics" line. Further to this, the dev could have the option of releasing it under a "Complete Classics" line, where it's the same but with all additional content, akin to a GOTY edition.
I fully expect PS6 to be sold as digital only and later PS6 Slim & Pro too. With that they can offer a digital add-on drive that's marked up to act as a partial subsidy along the lines of $99. Then I suspect the digital/physical transition on PlayStation will plateau around the 80/20 mark, with the remaining 20% of game sales on physical simply being offered at a small premium. And there's no problem in my mind with offering 2, 3 or 4 discs on an additional sliding scale, they're cheap to make and stamp; and again, having to put extra discs in at install is a one time thing, it doesn't matter.
Every part of the market can be addressed appropriately, we don't always have to replace one thing with another entirely.
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Nostalgic Nightmare
Member
People, especially younger generations have been primed to accept a future where they own nothing - having to rely on multiple subscriptions, sometimes in tandem to access a singular experience. In their minds they believe it's more convenient but can't see a future where libraries etc continue to grow and data becomes more cumbersome to access and move - not to mention more expensive and it will all be monetized by design to milk every possible drop.
History is littered with people giving away options, protection, laws etc in favor of a perceived convenience or safety.
For all the talk of backwards compatibility, this is the truth for a vast majority of gamers.
The preservation argument is a very fair one though. It is a good thing that people are able to go back and experience games from past generations. And that physical copies still exist of games that were delisted digitally.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
The cost to produce 2 Blu-Rays and include them with the package would have been fairly small.
I can "kind of" get the Switch 2 express card situation where carts are a lot more expensive but even there companies like CDPR are providing full game.
MacReady13
Member
It's amazing that Microsoft cares so much about consumers that they give them gamepass and all 1st party games are on there for "free", yet when it comes to physical games they somehow need to make money as a higher capacity disc is a bridge too far for the company who can't seem to make any money... Poor Microsoft. How will they survive???
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Already is happening if you want to activate PS5 disk drive on the Slim or Pro.
And I think XSX requires it as well. I kind of hate this.
_Ex_
Member
As long as the server that provides the download remains online.
The_Observer
Member
Fair enough. It comes down to you being more comfortable of letting out control from your hands than us who are arguing against this. We are much more distrustful of these companies and although you are right that the disc can become unusable but we still have much more control of that situation. Also what if you just sent your friend a joke which was caught by the system as non-PC so your account is suspended. This is not far-fetched at all, I remember many situations like this even on Gaf.
So yeah, the difference in our viewpoints originates from our different approaches regarding trust and control related to these corpos.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
The reason why games are more expensive on Switch 2 than on consoles with higher fidelity graphics is because of the SD express cards. That doesn't mean that a 100gb bluray disc isn't expensive either or that two 66gb discs wouldn't be expensive.
CDPR is banking on higher sales as a result of putting the game fully on a card. Maybe that plays out and maybe it doesn't.
Putting two discs in the package may have costs 4 dollars per copy... let alone a more expensive box.
In all scenarios you have to measure what is gained and what is lost. From Microsoft's point of view here, they aren't losing much by having you download the rest of the game. Ultimately, it's up to the market to respond with whether that is the right call or not by buying or not buying the game.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Presumably if you are paying $70 for it, you will complete it by then.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Kind of seems wasteful to spend the extra cost on it. Like who cares if you can't play it 20 years from now.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
No thanks.
Mibu, as you're someone with Sony in their DNA, it seems curious that you'd never want to access any of their games made prior to the PS4 generation.
MandingoMcThickens
Member
Fear mongering. I'll take it a step further - it's a non issue.
_Ex_
Member
Presumably, if you are paying $70 for a physical game that requires an online download to play, the functionality of which is beholden to a limited time server, you are in fact leasing that physical game, not purchasing it in perpetuity.
Doctor Hades
Member
Scummy move by Microsoft when most, if not all, PS5 games ship on 4K discs that can hold up to 100 GB. There's no reason why this game could not have shipped on a 100 GB disc that with compression would easily have fitted the full 125 GB install on a single disc. The Steam download was a lot less than 100 GB from memory and unpacked to 113.48 GB. My guess is that Microsoft are cheaping out here shipping the game on a single layer 25 GB Blu-ray disc rather than a triple layer 4K disc.
I was going to pick up the disc version for my PS5 Pro but I don't think I'll bother now since there is really no reason to own a physical copy. Well done, Microsoft. You've lost a sale! If you're going to ship a physical disc version of a game then at least include the full package, you numbnuts!
I was going to pick up the disc version for my PS5 Pro but I don't think I'll bother now since there is really no reason to own a physical copy. Well done, Microsoft. You've lost a sale! If you're going to ship a physical disc version of a game then at least include the full package, you numbnuts!
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ultrazilla
Gold Member
Tell that to the fan who is in the 33% of the world's population who remains without internet access.
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Quezacolt
Member
Was hoping they wouldnt fuck this up, and they did fuck it up.
Not buying the game then.
I know i will be disappointed, but i really hope Doom ships on a 100GB disc with the full game on it.
MS publishing these games is the worst. They do this crap with basically all of their first party titles.
Not buying the game then.
I know i will be disappointed, but i really hope Doom ships on a 100GB disc with the full game on it.
MS publishing these games is the worst. They do this crap with basically all of their first party titles.
Barakov
Member
reinking
Gold Member
Question for those that seem to be against physical? Why? It's not like games are getting cheaper by going digital only. Why would you care that other people want to buy a disc that actually has the full game on it? It does not hinder the digital only version in any way. I get liking digital for convenience but digital only is just a weird flex to me when it comes to defending it against ownership.
Fabieter
Member
My guess is that they're unsure about their decision, and the more people choose to skip discs, the more it reassures them that they made the right choice.
xrnzaaas
Member
Fucking Microsoft. The only scenario in which this would be remotely understandable is if the game had the same release dates for PS5 & Xbox, meaning that it would be printed in unfinished form and the devs would still be working on a huge day1 patch.
But months later? Fuck off, you're one of the largest companies on the planet, you're already charging 80€ (or more) for the game and you can't pay for a 100gig disc or 2 smaller ones? I was considering picking this up, but now it's going to be either deep sale or pass.
But months later? Fuck off, you're one of the largest companies on the planet, you're already charging 80€ (or more) for the game and you can't pay for a 100gig disc or 2 smaller ones? I was considering picking this up, but now it's going to be either deep sale or pass.
CartesianMan
Member
Someday, Microsoft will decide to discontinue this version of the game, and you'll be left with a worthless piece of plastic in your hands. Not a fan. I prefer knowing I have the entire game at my disposal—not just a disc with an .exe that downloads the rest.
asdasdasdbb
Member
It's dumb that people think they will be able to sell games 20 years from now for huge bucks.
Putonahappyface
Gold Member
I just went from day one at full price, to buying six months later from Ebay for a fraction of the price.
Fabieter
Member
I could pass on my collection to someone. Is it legal to do that with an account?
Great question! Legally, passing on a **Steam account** (or most digital accounts) to a child—or anyone else—is a bit tricky. Here's why:
### Steam's Terms of Service:
- **Steam accounts are non-transferable.**
According to Valve's Subscriber Agreement, the account is **licensed** to the user, not owned. That means you're not allowed to sell, share, or transfer it—even to family members.
### In Practice:
- Many people *do* pass on their accounts informally, especially to their children. Steam doesn't actively check for that.
- But legally speaking, if Valve wanted to enforce their rules, they could suspend or terminate an account being accessed by someone other than the original owner.
### For Your Child:
If you're thinking long-term—like including it in a will—it's technically not allowed, but people often pass on login info privately. Just know that it's not legally protected.
Let me know if you want suggestions for making a child-friendly gaming setup or managing family accounts!
It seems like it's not legally the case
.
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Doctor Hades
Member
I am still of the opinion that if anyone buys a physical game on a disc that ships in a case that the complete game should be on said disc regardless of whether the game is an older build that has a Day One patch. This disc should also be able to be installed without being connected to the internet. If it isn't then there really is no point to a game being released on a disc in the first place. It is just a complete waste of resources.
Microsoft/Bethesda are just doing the absolute minimum here in shipping this game on PS5 with the cheapest disc option available which is a single layer Blu-ray that holds only 25 GB (hence why the installer on the disc is only 20 GB). Microsoft want everyone to switch over to digital so they have total control over pricing and game availability.
Since the release of Xbox Series X|S, Microsoft have been released small installers on a disc more and more and this is why I stopped buying Xbox Series X game on disc and then stopped buying Xbox Series X games altogether, which included cancelling my GamePass Ultimate subscription last May. I just don't agree with where they are pushing the market.
Microsoft/Bethesda are just doing the absolute minimum here in shipping this game on PS5 with the cheapest disc option available which is a single layer Blu-ray that holds only 25 GB (hence why the installer on the disc is only 20 GB). Microsoft want everyone to switch over to digital so they have total control over pricing and game availability.
Since the release of Xbox Series X|S, Microsoft have been released small installers on a disc more and more and this is why I stopped buying Xbox Series X game on disc and then stopped buying Xbox Series X games altogether, which included cancelling my GamePass Ultimate subscription last May. I just don't agree with where they are pushing the market.
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asdasdasdbb
Member
It keeps retail interested (which is the main reason why physical isn't dead) and you can still resell the game.
For what normies use physical for (not those Collectors?), that's good enough.
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reinking
Gold Member
Why would that matter to people buying digital? I have a closet full of games going all the way back to the Atari 2600. I can still grab a cart or disc and play those games any time I want. That is what all digital is taking away. I'm good, I will go with the flow because this is entertainment, but it saddens me to see so many celebrate the end of access to purchased games.
TheGrat1
Member
It has the dlc on it.
It's just like when people say PC is download only now so everyone else should be cool with it, too. I roll my eyes and think to myself: "Please tell me how fewer options are helping you???" It is not like anyone voted for it, the publishers took the option away and the defenders act like it was their idea.