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[titiklabingapat]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-32443037

Indonesia has summoned foreign embassy officials to the prison where nine convicted foreign drug smugglers and one Indonesian are due to be executed.

Diplomats confirmed to the BBC that they had been told to go to the island prison of Nusakambangan on Saturday.

The request could suggest the executions, which include the two Australia ringleaders of the Bali Nine heroin-smuggling gang, are approaching. That is despite outrage in many of the convicts' countries of origin.

The prisoners facing execution include people from Nigeria, Brazil, France, and the two Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.
The 10th death row prisoner, Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso from the Philippines, was being transferred to Nusakambangan prison on Friday.

The executions have been subject to repeated delays and no execution date has yet been set - convicts must be given 72 hours' notice.

Some of the cases are fucked up. A couple of them got the death sentence after appealing life sentences. The Indonesian Supreme Court rejected thier appeals and gave them death sentences instead. One man initially got a life sentence, then got it down to 20 years. He then appealed that one as well and when he was rejected, was handed down a death by firing squad.

The Filipina, and only woman, might have been a victim of human trafficking and the Brazilian man is severely mentally ill.

A court in Surabaya gave him a life sentence in April 1999, which was reduced by the High Court to 20 years.
Salami appealed and the Supreme Court gave him a death sentence. His clemency application was rejected on 5 January 2015.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31851707

What the hell, Indonesia?

 

[titiklabingapat]

8 of the convicts have been executed. The only woman was spared, for now.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/121913/indonesia-spares-veloso-executes-8-other-drug-convicts/

 

[borborygmus]

This is all crazy, particularly the guy who appealed the 20 year sentence and ended up being executed by firing squad. ;|

I despise drugs and drug dealers are scum, but damn if that isn't inhumanly cruel.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-32443037



Some of the cases are fucked up. A couple of them got the death sentence after appealing life sentences. The Indonesian Supreme Court rejected thier appeals and gave them death sentences instead. One man initially got a life sentence, then got it down to 20 years. He then appealed that one as well and when he was rejected, was handed down a death by firing squad.

The Filipina, and only woman, might have been a victim of human trafficking and the Brazilian man is severely mentally ill.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31851707

What the hell, Indonesia?

Holy hell, that's the appeal process?!

 

[Smellycat]

I was going to say that you should know better than smuggle drugs into Indonesia, especially knowing their laws. But, the fact that they were executed after appealing their sentences is crazy.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

disgusting.

such a horrible loss of human life

 

[maquiladora]

Ridiculous punishment for drug smuggling. RIP.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Disgusting.

 

[Mimosa97]

Do you know if Serge Atlaoui (french) was executed ?

French Newspaper says his ultimate appeal was rejected but his name doesn't appear on the list.

 

[Prine]

I'd like to know how thorough their process to prove the drugs were smuggled by the accused, I mean, can you be accidentally conviceted if its planted? did the 8 that were executed reject the drugs were there's ?

 

[Veritigo_X]

Firing squad? What the fuck?

 

[danwarb]

Punishing the wrong people to deflect from the drug industry and corruption that brings them there.

 

[Prez]

It's possible that most of them were forced under threat to smuggle. That makes it such a tragedy.

 

[MercuryLS]

I'm sorry but they knew the risks of smuggling drugs into a country with tough anti-drug laws, if they were forced to against their will by some drug lord then that sucks. If they did this of their own accord, then I have no pity on them.

Problem is, there's no way of knowing what the circumstances are behind this.

 

[soundahfekz]

Fucking barbaric and terrible. Shame on Indonesia.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I'm sorry but they knew the risks of smuggling drugs into a country with tough anti-drug laws, if they were forced to against their will by some drug lord then that sucks. If they did this of their own accord, then I have no pity on them.

Problem is, there's no way of knowing what the circumstances are behind this.

smuggling drugs should lead to your death?

 

[FStop7]

Fuck that place, I'll never set foot there unless this changes.

 

[julzillamilitia]

Drug smugglers are scum.


Drug smuggling carries the death penalty in indonesia.



Many western people think when they get caught committing crimes in a poor country, their embassy will put political pressure on the government and get them released.


The indignation displayed because this pressure didn't work here is pretty entitled. break a countries laws. Pay the price. don't hide behind your perception of "barbaric punishment".

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Moral relativism is a fallacy. Execution is wrong in all cases.

 

[YoungFa]

Drug smugglers are scum.


Drug smuggling carries the death penalty in indonesia.



Many western people think when they get caught committing crimes in a poor country, their embassy will put political pressure on the government and get them released.


The indignation displayed because this pressure didn't work here is pretty entitled. break a countries laws. Pay the price. don't hide behind your perception of "barbaric punishment".

What if it is against the law to be gay?

 

[Fuchsdh]

The apparently punitive blowback for appealing sentences seems off.

Knew about Indonesia's approach to drug offenses, but didn't realize they'd come off a moratorium against the practice in 2013. I can't find any good sources for why the moratorium was placed though. Apparently Indonesians aren't that gung-ho on capital punishment in general, or at least it's a point of contention.

Seems like the biggest pragmatic effect would be to discourage tourism.

Moral relativism is a fallacy. Execution is wrong in all cases.

Uh... "only a Sith deals in absolutes"?

Firing squad? What the fuck?

Doesn't seem a worse way to execute people than lethal injection, really. Either way, you're killing someone. Not an incredibly clean or sanitized way to do it.

 

[Violet_0]

don't hide behind your perception of "barbaric punishment".

why the quotation marks?

 

[RandyBobandy]

What a backwards country. Firing squad in 2015 jesus fuck. For drug offences no less

 

[Mawlok]

Death by firing squad for drug offenses is utter insanity, but every single one of them would have known the risks of what they were doing and are now paying for their choices. Still very unfortunate that some countries still pull this shit though.

 

[Chris R]

They killed 8 of 9? I thought only 2 had death penalty sentences?

 

[Veritigo_X]

Doesn't seem a worse way to execute people than lethal injection, really. Either way, you're killing someone. Not an incredibly clean or sanitized way to do it.

Having your body riddled with bullets is far from what I would call a clean death. I would take a lethal injection over that any day just for the sake of my family. Can't exactly have an open casket funeral after a firing squad execution.

 

[| Praxis |]

Death by firing squad for drug offenses is utter insanity, but every single one of them would have known the risks of what they were doing and are now paying for their choices. Still very unfortunate that some countries still pull this shit though.

Pretty much, they knew the risks. I don't agree with the sentence, but I'm not exactly losing sleep.

Having your body riddled with bullets is far from what I would call a clean death. I would take a lethal injection over that any day just for the sake of my family. Can't exactly have an open casket funeral after a firing squad execution.

After reading a lot on executions, I'd take the firing squad over any other option available in the states or elsewhere. Unless the guillotine was an option, just to see if I was conscious for a split second after my head left my body.

 

[Seraphiel]

It is well known that Indonesia like some other countries have incredibly harsh laws for these crimes.

If you still go to these places and commit these crimes you are responsible for whatever happens as a result.


Personal responsibility is an often neglected concept these days.

 

[orochi91]

East/SE Asian countries seem to have an intense hate-boner when it comes to drugs and subsequent trafficking.

These smugglers should have known better than to operate out of a country with such severe punishments :/

It is well known that Indonesia like some other countries have incredibly harsh laws for these crimes.

If you still go to these places and commit these crimes you are responsible for whatever happens as a result.


Personal responsibility is an often neglected concept these days.

Agreed.

 

[julzillamilitia]

What if it is against the law to be gay?

so you are trying to now equate being gay with... drug smuggling?

Wat?

 

[orochi91]

What if it is against the law to be gay?

How is that relevant to the topic at hand?

 

[zashga]

Upping the sentence from life to death on appeal sounds incredibly bizarre and more than a little cruel. I guess the message they're sending is, "don't make me repeat myself."

Pretty messed up thing to do, regardless of your stance on capital punishment.

 

[Chainsawkitten]

Uh... "only a Sith deals in absolutes"?

That's an absolute.

 

[MercuryLS]

smuggling drugs should lead to your death?

I think it's an overly harsh punishment but that is their law, don't want to die, don't smuggle drugs into their country.

 

[shadyspace]

I wonder if they would do this to an American.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Having your body riddled with bullets is far from what I would call a clean death. I would take a lethal injection over that any day just for the sake of my family. Can't exactly have an open casket funeral after a firing squad execution.

But it's probably a quicker and less painful death than a lot of lethal injections, especially when the injections are badly administered.

My point is that short of debating the merits of crucifixion and disembowelments, modern execution methods are still killing people and I don't think you can expect that will ever get sanitized, nor should it. The guillotine, electric chair, firing squad, lethal injection—they've all been touted as more civilized ways to dispense with people.

I am not personally in favor of the death penalty, but if you're going to kill someone, I'd rather people didn't dither around and get offended by the methods. There's never going to be a "nice" way to put someone to death.

That's an absolute.

Which is my point SG is arguing that moral relativism cannot exist. I think that's pretty ridiculous; what we define as right and wrong is definitely engendered by our culture and values.

 

[RustyNails]

What if it is against the law to be gay?

Smuggling drugs is a crime in every country. Are you making the case for your argument by implying being gay is a crime too? Poorly thought out.

Indonesia is suffering from drug epidemic. I heard the story on NPR yesterday and 30 people die every day due to drug related causes. Also, one of the people killed is a Bali drug trade kingpin. But with that being said they should have kept them in prison instead of executing.

 

[THRILLH0]

Drug smugglers are scum.


Drug smuggling carries the death penalty in indonesia.



Many western people think when they get caught committing crimes in a poor country, their embassy will put political pressure on the government and get them released.


The indignation displayed because this pressure didn't work here is pretty entitled. break a countries laws. Pay the price. don't hide behind your perception of "barbaric punishment".

Fuck this. A woman can be legally stoned to death for carrying a mobile phone in Pakistan. Are you ok with that?

so you are trying to now equate being gay with... drug smuggling?

Wat?

He's making the point that the "they knew the laws" justification is bullshit.

This is incredibly sad.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The penalty for appealing your life sentence is death? Jesus.

Part and parcel of accepting a country's sovereign status is accepting its ability to mete out punishment within its own borders, especially for universally recognized crimes. While it's a shame that they apparently have a kangaroo court system, it is incredibly foolish to commit crimes for profit in a country where you know that being caught means your life is forfeit, with only the slim hope that your country's government will bail you out.

 

[Darkangel]

What are the drug statistics like in Indonesia?

Is it working?

 

[danwarb]

Indonesia should legalise and regulate these drugs. Use the proceeds for health and social welfare. No kickbacks for crooked politicians in that.

 

[Mimosa97]

What a backwards country. Firing squad in 2015 jesus fuck. For drug offences no less

Wasn't the firing squad reinstated in one of the american states not long ago ?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

What are the drug statistics like in Indonesia?

Is it working?

I'm just guessing but I'd probably wager it's resulting in the incarceration and execution of poor people who are either duped or forced into low level trafficking while the real brains of hte drug operations skate free.

 

[Delta Assault]

smuggling drugs should lead to your death?

Their country believes so.

But I guess there's some innate God-given set of sentencing guidelines that deems that smuggling drugs is worthy of a lesser punishment that the Indonesians are apparently flouting. How dare they contravene the Objective Commandments of Suitable Penalties for Criminals.

They're almost as bad as the Japanese, who kill dolphins and whales when we all know you're actually supposed to kill chickens and cows.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Indonesia is suffering from drug epidemic. I heard the story on NPR yesterday and 30 people die every day due to drug related causes. Also, one of the people killed is a Bali drug trade kingpin. But with that being said they should have kept them in prison instead of executing.

Honestly, doesn't seem that high for a country with 250 million people. The US has more drug deaths per day from a quick search I did.

 

[m_shortpants]

Fuck this. A woman can be legally stoned to death for carrying a mobile phone in Pakistan. Are you ok with that?

What? Do you have a source for that?

 

[Zyae]

Drug smugglers are scum.


Drug smuggling carries the death penalty in indonesia.



Many western people think when they get caught committing crimes in a poor country, their embassy will put political pressure on the government and get them released.


The indignation displayed because this pressure didn't work here is pretty entitled. break a countries laws. Pay the price. don't hide behind your perception of "barbaric punishment".

But it IS pretty barbaric.

 

[sirap]

Don't fuck with drugs in SE Asia. Shit, at least mushrooms were easy to find in Indonesia.

 

[m_shortpants]

But it IS pretty barbaric.

What is barbaric? The death penalty? Or the method of execution?

 

[Cartman86]

There are so much to say, but the overall thing to come away with from threads like this is how little certain people care about the lives of others or at least how they have resigned to the current reality of it all.

Countries have their own laws that you should be aware of, and honoring those laws in an international political sense is required, but why are we coming at it from that angle? You're not the president of a nation. No one is asking you to send an army in to save one person. Politicians and human rights organizations every day try to counter these laws through diplomatic talks, the changing of hearts and minds, and protest. How is this not the perspective that we all come at it with?