PhantomHound
Banned
I believe most of asia has very strict drug laws. Cant you get life in japan for pot?
edit: nvm google says 5 years
edit: nvm google says 5 years
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Indonesia about the execute 9 foreigners for drug related charges (Bali 9)
- Thread starter titiklabingapat
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Lethal Injection is pretty fucked up if you think about it. They're INJECTING the victim with a LETHAL cocktail of chemicals. I mean, that's like how we would envision hostile aliens would kill us right?
The big reason why it seems less barbaric is because the victim appears to be falling asleep. It's basically attempting to recreate our society's vision of a peaceful death (e.g. surrounded by loved ones in a hospital bed drifting off to sleep).
The big reason why it seems less barbaric is because the victim appears to be falling asleep. It's basically attempting to recreate our society's vision of a peaceful death (e.g. surrounded by loved ones in a hospital bed drifting off to sleep).
Slaughtering people 'inhumanely' to prove a point wouldn't do much for the individuals being slaughtered. There's less suffering with not botched lethal injection. Death by multiple bullet wounds < going to sleep and not waking up. Similar preamble for both.
Just give up the death penalty because it's bad for everyone. Solve the problems of societies by actually solving problems instead.
Laos still has the death penalty for drugs trafficking. There was that bizarre case a few years ago where a lady avoided being executed by becoming pregnant whilst in prison. Laos also prohibits foreigners having sex with Lao people. Other than that, it's an amazing place.
Neither is humane. If we were seriously trying to go the route that causes the least suffering, we'd use the guillotine, but no form of capital punishment is "humane".
A person doesn't necessarily die immediately after being decapitated in which case it would be super painful.
Utah and Oklahoma still has firing squads as an optional method for execution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_by_firing_squad#United_States
When cut by something really sharp you don't start feeling the pain immediately, if this apply to the head, you'd be long gone before you feel any pain. Someone need to test this.
They would pass out and die in only a few seconds though due to lack of blood pressure in the brain. But I'd imagine that form of death is too disturbing for officials to carry out and family to witness.
Would not the best form of death penalty be putting the person under general anaesthetic and then pumping them full of morphine until they die? Would that work? Unconscious and no pain, even if the body does struggle to breath
| Praxis |
Banned
Hypoxia would probably be the most humane. Before you die you feel drunk and euphoric. Some people have issues with this method though, they don't see why a criminal is entitled to a better death than the rest of us.
There's an episode of Horizon about this, it's very interesting.
How to Kill a Human Being
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Maria Full Of Grace should've ended in a wave of bullets. Would've been justice served.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Hopefully this will deter others would-be-druggies from doing the same.
It is a tragic loss of life, but the Indonesians have a right to determine the severity of punishment for internationally recognized crimes occurring within their borders.
It is a tragic loss of life, but the Indonesians have a right to determine the severity of punishment for internationally recognized crimes occurring within their borders.
Valkerionseven
Member
Pretty much, I think it was last year or close to it by now in Japan, some guy was smoking pot in his car and the cops tried to stop him. Of course he tried to run and hit another car. It was a press field day for "showing the effects of pot" and how dangerous it was and what not. Which is hilarious given the amount of pot smokers and memorabilia there is over there, just not in the mainstream media.
In general though yeah, Asia's drug laws are way strict. My only issue is, it rarely feels like its actually for the public good and rather a way for the governments/authorities to parade around that they accomplished something against a horrible person(s), especially if they catch a foreigner. Way they are seemingly put on display is pretty obvious in some places.
As little patience or sympathy I have for drug sellers and traffickers, cant say I condone this punishment, especially given the nonsense appeals.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Yeah, and others have the right to call them absolutely disgusting, and not just because of how batshit their punishments are, and how complicated the whole drug mule thing often can be but also appeals process was handled.
A man got life, appealed and got 20, appealed again and then got sent to a firing squad...What?
Do you believe that death is an appropriate penalty for adultery?
But then...
Good job man. God job.
You wouldn't criticise a law that sentences a woman who goes on a date with a man of the "wrong" religion to have bricks hurled at her until she dies?
I don't agree with the death penalty, but it's not really my right to criticize the laws of other sovereign states.
However, having dealt with the Indonesian legal system on several occasions (spending most of my adult life there), my real problem with this is that when an individual is convicted of a crime in Indonesia there is a high likelihood they did not commit it. A classic example is Christopher Parnell, who was imprisoned as a drug smuggler. It was later revealed that it was in fact dirty Indonesian authorities who were using him unknowingly as a drug mule. And Indonesia has just delayed the execution of the Filipina woman because there is evidence that she was being unknowingly used as a drug mule as well. Are you seeing the trend? So this seems like a bit of a problem when dealing with something as permanent as the death penalty.
However, having dealt with the Indonesian legal system on several occasions (spending most of my adult life there), my real problem with this is that when an individual is convicted of a crime in Indonesia there is a high likelihood they did not commit it. A classic example is Christopher Parnell, who was imprisoned as a drug smuggler. It was later revealed that it was in fact dirty Indonesian authorities who were using him unknowingly as a drug mule. And Indonesia has just delayed the execution of the Filipina woman because there is evidence that she was being unknowingly used as a drug mule as well. Are you seeing the trend? So this seems like a bit of a problem when dealing with something as permanent as the death penalty.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
What? You can do whatever the hell you want. Just because you don't live in their country, doesn't somehow make them above reproach. Makes no sense.
Doesn't make your take worth anything, either. These strict laws generally work for these countries. Don't try to bring drugs into Singapore.
Yeah our president had very tough words about the whole situation, going as far as saying that if he were to be executed there would be diplomatic consequences.
Honestly I don't think it's a good move. I'm against the death penaly and there are a lot of shady things surrounding the investigation/his trial but the guy isn't innocent. So I think it's a bad move to threaten a soverein country this way.
You're absolutely welcome to do whatever you want, but if you are not a citizen or legal resident of that country your opinion of its laws or legal system are of absolutely no value or consequence.
That's what I thought. Thanks.
Same backwards laws as some places in the US. But people only see the big pile of shit in their neighbour's lawn.
IrishNinja
Member
Darren870
Member
One is a choice and one isn't.... Hardly a good comparison.
Anyways, the two members of the Bali 9 that got executed were the two masterminds behind it all. They were the two recruiting people, making money and exploiting people. There is a reason these 2 were killed and the other 7 are spending life in prison. They knew the risks and what they were doing.
The other people executed today were part of different cases.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Okay how about this one:
If you don't want to be arrested, don't sit in the front of the bus.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Yeah, the country murdering the shit out of people for drug related offenses, a ridiculous amount of them, is certainly doing fantastic work. Bravo. It's not like the country is still filled with substance abuse or anything, or mass incarcerations of it's people, 60% of the prison population being substance users, and doing some reading, it seems like there's a complete disregard for the health and well being their addicts(shocking, I know), leading to some terrible occurrences in prison.
Yeah, they're doing just great with their version of the War on Drugs, just like America.
The obvious solution is to legalise drugs since people are doing them already right?
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Yes, let's go from one extreme to another.
Syph Medwes
Member
nice shitpost, but for the record the answer would be the same, you probably shouldn't go to that country. by no means does it validate their thinking or make it right, but at some point you need to be responsible or be willing to bear the consequences if you take on the risk.
Darren870
Member
Again, that was something that was targeting black people, which isn't a choice.
Keep reaching though...
I knew right from the beginning that this would not have happy ending. That country has serious problem with corruption, hypocrisy and not to mention, xenophobia. You're especially fucked if you're an Indonesian citizen with foreign heritage. You'll always be an outsider to the locals.
AcademicSaucer
Member
If my country had death sentence for drug related crimes, there wouldnt be enough bullets .
It doesn't deter though - its just state sanctioned murder.
Fuck the indonesian government and its backward-arse fucking laws for doing this, and then having the audacity to plead for clemency for it's citizens facing the same penalty in other countries.
Why so many gay comparison here? One is a choice another is not. Is people in this forum stupid or something.
And yeah. Drug law in asia is super strict. What r u going to do with that? Nuke their country? It is not going to change anytime soon. What u can do is dont breaking their fucking law jesus. It is not like drug smuggling is a good thing to begin with ...
And yeah. Drug law in asia is super strict. What r u going to do with that? Nuke their country? It is not going to change anytime soon. What u can do is dont breaking their fucking law jesus. It is not like drug smuggling is a good thing to begin with ...
Are you comparing a victimless human sexuality lifestyle to the trafficking of a dangerous narcotic purely for profit with a total disregard for the law and consequences?
If so I don't think your argument deserves the dignity of this response.
Anecdotally, my biggest gripe are the number of people who claim "Muslims" should respect Australia's laws and customs, but are then first in line to shout down A predominantly Muslim country for having laws and customs which are foreign to Australia.
Yes. You have a right to disagree. But demanding anything makes you a complete hypocrite and you should stfu.
Also didn't the whole western world just mourn the passing of a Saudi king who oversaw a truly appalling number of inarguably unjust state sanctioned murders?
Whatevs.
Yes. You have a right to disagree. But demanding anything makes you a complete hypocrite and you should stfu.
Also didn't the whole western world just mourn the passing of a Saudi king who oversaw a truly appalling number of inarguably unjust state sanctioned murders?
Whatevs.
what are you even talking about - how does being Muslim equate with the death penalty for drug offences?
You tell me.
jk hehe
Anyway its a shame Australia only cared when it mattered to them. We also left it many years fucking late. These guys have been in there for a while and Australia put them there too.. Its not like the Australian government or people weren't aware of Indonesia's strict drug laws.
Its also a shame that Indonesia took their time. They should have got it done the first time.. I know that sounds insensitive but I think the situation was made far worse by the appeals, dragging the conviction on, creating drama and giving false hope to the friends and families involved..
I'm not drawing a correlation between the primary religion of a nation and its laws. That's a different, and very valid, discussion. I'm highlighting the hypocrisy of many people in Australia who use the protection of our national identity and culture to promote discord within the community, but the criticise another country for having a culture dissimilar from our own.
I could have used as an example the somewhat recent executions of Australians in predominantly Buddhist Vietnam or Singapore but they are hardly topical to the anti-Muslim marches we had a couple of weeks ago.
Garuda1One
Member
We have a very harsh law here in indonesia for drug trafficking.. But its a diffrent kind of story for the drug users,, they can get help like rehabilitation and such,, a lot of people actualy got rehabilitated here, and a lot of them cured from drug addict.
But for trafficker, supplier, distributor, Dont even think about it.
Just dont.
But for trafficker, supplier, distributor, Dont even think about it.
Just dont.
Ninja Scooter
Member
You are missing the point, which is not to compare the "crimes" in question of being gay and being a drug trafficker. The comparison is that I find the idea of state sponsored execution to be reprehensible and I don't find "well it's just their laws deal with it" to be a valid defense as it could be applied to many other reprehensible laws and punishments various countries (including America) have.
Do you understand there are countries where homosexuality and adultery are literally punishable by death? The point scooter is making is that so many people trot out the "you've got to respect other countries' laws" cliche when it comes to drugs but when it's brought to their attention that there are countries who administer the same punishments for homosexuality they say it's different.
No it's not. If your argument is that we need to respect the Indonesian government's right to impose the penalties they see fit on the basis of sovreignity then you must also respect the right for governments in Africa and the Middle East to do the same.
There's a pretty clear difference here. Homosexuality is a crime in these countries that we in the west don't recognise as a crime at all. Trafficking is a crime in almost every jurisdiction that I'm aware of, the calculus is just about the penalty for that offence.
I don't think it's at all incongruous to think that applying a penalty for homosexuality is reprehensible and should be criticised, all the while respecting that Indonesia has a higher penalty for the crime of trafficking which should be respected.
Edit: Not that I agree, I just don't find the logic problematic.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Fuck off with that West vs Poor Countries bullshit. I was born and grew up in a country with the death penalty for drug smuggling. It is barbaric. This isn't about Westerners thinking they can walk over other peoples' laws; the death penalty is a terrible and outdated concept that needs to die.
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