and countries like Saudi Arabia have the death penalty for blasphemy and homosexuality, that's alright with you?
Indonesia about the execute 9 foreigners for drug related charges (Bali 9)
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and countries like Saudi Arabia have the death penalty for blasphemy and homosexuality, that's alright with you?
Afro Thunder
Member
I wonder that too.
Septimus Prime
Member
It is scary as hell. I traveled through Malaysia two years ago, and in their airport, they play a video that tells you that if someone puts an illicit substance into your baggage without your knowledge--let alone your consent--and you get caught with it, you will be imprisoned or worse.
Like, there's tough, and there's unnecessary brutality, and this kind of thing definitely leans against the precipice between the two.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
I am legit shook. The Filipina is the spitting image of my mother.
Anyways, yeah, getting the death penalty for appealing a life sentence is all kinds of wrong.
| Praxis |
Banned
People should really read up or watch the documentary "The Act of Killing" to see the type of people that run things in Indonesia (and the American involvement).
Delta Assault
Member
Nah, that's pretty fucked up. But there's a big difference between blasphemy/homosexuality and drug smuggling. The former are victimless crimes (well, they're not crimes at all, but uh... you know what I mean).
The idea that there's some sort of objective all knowing penalty for a crime is silly to me. The idea that something is barbaric... Europeans don't believe in the death penalty at all, so any use of it in the US is barbaric. The word "barbaric" has really lost all meaning to me. It basically seems to mean "something I don't like." Like the word "fascism."
triplestation
Member
thats extreme
OriginofHysteria
Banned
Honestly I'm kinda torn. Smuggling drugs into a country is illegal and if you know the punishment then it shouldn't come as a surprise, especially since some of the drugs could mess up a person's life in that country.
Obviously you can make the argument that they were forced to smuggle the drugs in but unless that was stated then we don't know for sure, every drug smuggling operation situation is different from another.
So really if they did it knowingly then it sucks that they died but Southern Asia's drug policy is very strict and drug smuggling is illegal in pretty much every country.
If they did it while being forced then it's a sad situation altogether but like I said, I don't know the facts so I'm not sure what to make of the situation.
Obviously you can make the argument that they were forced to smuggle the drugs in but unless that was stated then we don't know for sure, every drug smuggling operation situation is different from another.
So really if they did it knowingly then it sucks that they died but Southern Asia's drug policy is very strict and drug smuggling is illegal in pretty much every country.
If they did it while being forced then it's a sad situation altogether but like I said, I don't know the facts so I'm not sure what to make of the situation.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I don't think that is more humane.
rhophiehalul78
Member
Damn, firing squad.
Lethal injection LOOKS more humane, but it isn't.
"oh, he's falling asleep... and he's dead. That was peaceful".
No. That's not how it works. You're still killing someone. If it makes you feel better that it LOOKS like they're falling into a peaceful sleep, sure... but you're just lying to yourself.
It's like eating chicken nuggets. You can pretend that you're not eating mechanically separated chicken parts from chickens that were slaughtered inhumanely... but you are.
If you're going to eat meat, I think it's healthier and more respectful to at least acknowledge where it's coming from. If you're going to kill someone, I think it's healthier and more respectful to at least acknowledge that you're not putting someone into a peaceful nap.
Don't hate on my chicken nuggets!
Chicken nuggets are frigging delicious! But remember that there's a reason that they're shaped like random blobs and not shaped like chicken heads. It's too distance us from the uncomfortable notion(at least in North America..) that you're eating something that... well, didn't have a very pleasant life or death.
I think by "more humane" people simply mean that there's less suffering involved, not that they're not actually killing people. Unless it's actually a very painful process :0 I really don't know.
Maybe. Probably not.
But still. They (hopefully) knew what they were getting into.
If someone told me that if I wore black shoes in their country, I'd be hit in the face with a pie, I think it would be silly and unfair... but I'd probably avoid wearing black shoes in their country.
_/¯surprised nobody linked to that movie :
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124595/
same thing, not new, still sad (bad choice of words but i cannot exprim it fully)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124595/
same thing, not new, still sad (bad choice of words but i cannot exprim it fully)
For what it's worth, lethal injection is far less messy, and will not result in a mutilated corpse.
I would prefer that over a firing squad any day.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
I thought only one person had ammunition in a firing squad
| Praxis |
Banned
They aim for the heart in Indonesia (I think). Not like China, they put the a gun to the back of your head.
The family of a convict recently had to watch their family member struggling to breathe, and eventually suffocate to death for over 40 minutes in the US.
That's not practiced everywhere, and I believe it originated in soldiers having to execute their own guys because of desertion etc.
Which is my pointSG is arguing that moral relativism cannot exist. I think that's pretty ridiculous; what we define as right and wrong is definitely engendered by our culture and values.
Moral relativism is stupid regardless. Its making a universal claim against universal claims.
I'm not sure, I took it as its literal name.
As in, you're gun downed by an actual squad of people D:
Jesus, that's remarkably fucked up.
HundredEyeMonk
Member
What was the name of this convict and what crime did he commit to earn himself the death penalty?
EDIT: Looked it up myself. The only thing I found in my quick internet search was this guy http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-due-vein-failure-officials-article-1.1773508
And what did he do?
"In 1999, Lockett kidnapped, beat, and shot Stephanie Neiman, a nineteen-year-old high school graduate, friend of Lockett's other victims, and a witness to his crimes. The men beat her and used duct tape to bind her hands and cover her mouth. Even after being kidnapped and driven to a dusty country road, Neiman did not back down when Lockett asked if she planned to contact police. After she stated she would go to the police, Lockett decided to bury her alive.[5] Lockett ordered an accomplice to bury her while she was still breathing. She died from two wounds from a shotgun fired by Lockett.[5] In 2000, he was convicted of murder, rape, forcible sodomy, kidnapping, assault and battery and sentenced to death. Previously Lockett was sentenced to four years in prison for a conviction in 1996 in Grady County for conspiracy to commit a felony.[1]
At his 1999 murder trial, DNA from the dead victim, fingerprints from the duct tape used to bind the victim, and eye-witness testimony led to his murder conviction."
Yeah, fuck that guy. I don't even care.
Lamel
Banned
I'm against the death penalty, especially for drug trafficking. But these traffickers likely knew better than to operate where the laws are so strict. I realize that situations around certain crimes are different throughout the world; maybe drugs are a much more damaging thing in indonesian society.
A little intense there bro.
You can't just randomly decide who gets killed humanely vs. who doesn't.
A little intense there bro.
You can't just randomly decide who gets killed humanely vs. who doesn't.
| Praxis |
Banned
Oh shit, it wasn't 45 minutes, it was 15. Apologies, that teaches me for trusting my memory. Still, just as sickening in my opinion.
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/17/nation/la-na-execution-drugs-20140118
Chainsawkitten
Member
I mean "only siths deal in absolutes" is an absolute.Which is my point
Of course our culture matters to what we think is right. But just because we think it is so doesn't make it so.
I think he might be referring to this case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Clayton_Lockett
There was also this guy in January:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/15/us/oklahoma-execution-charles-frederick-warner/
If you don't want to get executed by firing squad in Indonesia, probably don't smuggle heroin through Indonesia.
Feel bad for the families, but I also feel bad for the families of people who OD. Those families don't get to see their children reform and grow. They just find them with a needle in their arm.
Feel bad for the families, but I also feel bad for the families of people who OD. Those families don't get to see their children reform and grow. They just find them with a needle in their arm.
HundredEyeMonk
Member
Oh no, I edited my post. I found the one where it took a guy 43 minutes to die. Your memory is good.
But it is hard for me to feel sympathy for him considering he kidnapped, beat, raped and shot a 19 year old girl with a shotgun twice after trying to bury her alive.
HundredEyeMonk
Member
Yup- the first, fuck him. Did you read what he did?
The second guy.. hmm, lets look. Charles Frederick Warner. Oh he only fucking raped and killed an 11 MONTH OLD BABY. http://newsok.com/man-found-guilty-of-baby-rape-murder/article/1934580
Fuck that guy too.
All good candidates for the death penalty. Drug smuggling? No, I don't think that is on the same level as those two assholes who I hope suffered.
Ninja Scooter
Member
If you don't want to be hung or stoned to death, don't be gay.
Any use of the death penalty in the legal system is barbaric. Period. I don't care whether it's in Texas or Indonesia, I don't care if it's a mass murderer or a drug smuggler. It's a practice that has led to countless deaths of innocent people and been used by governments to murder their opponents. It has shown little practical benefit beyond satisfying bloodthirst.
Drug smugglers should be punished harshly. Nobody should be executed by the state.
Drug smugglers should be punished harshly. Nobody should be executed by the state.
I don't really like retribution as a goal of punishment because I don't have bloodlust but if it makes you happy, ok then.
| Praxis |
Banned
Oh no, I edited my post. I found the one where it took a guy 43 minutes to die. Your memory is good.
But it is hard for me to feel sympathy for him considering he kidnapped, beat, raped and shot a 19 year old girl with a shotgun twice after trying to bury her alive.
Ah, good to know.
I don't particularly feel sympathy towards the criminal because of the disgusting shit they've done. I do find state sanctioned revenge torture/murder terrible though.
HundredEyeMonk
Member
If you are going to rape and kill an 11-month old baby, then I don't think you have any business walking this earth anymore. There is no place for you in society.
It is a good thing people agree with me.
In Indonesia 3 of the 10 people in the firing squad have live ammunition.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
I'm really torn on these sorts of cases. On the one hand I think the death penalty is overly harsh for this sort of crime, but drugs destroy so many lives as well, and it is well known that countries like Indonesia will kill you for smuggling them. These people must have known the risk and they took a gamble and lost. Seeing interviews with the two Australian men, though, they both sounded like really really unintelligent people.
HundredEyeMonk
Member
True. But it is hard for me to really care when something inhumane happens to a person like that.
I'm glad we care about feeding, sheltering, comforting, and trying hard to make their end as painless as possible. But in the end, the sentence was served. Next.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
This is the second time being gay has been brought up in this thread. I don't see the correlation.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The correlation being that you don't just have to swallow another country's shitty lack of human rights or barbaric punishment methods.
Nobody would make the 2nd argument (or at least not anyone with a sense of decency) so why is the first acceptable?
BBC News says his appeal is still withstanding. I noticed the other day that France had warned "of consequences" were he to be executed.
It's fucking awful this, though. Indonesia is very harsh on drugs offences of any kind.
I'm not sure this will end well. The Australian government had asked to delay the execution of their two nationals until they'd completed a corruption investigation.
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