A lot of losers in this thread. You especially.
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Indonesia executed 6 drug convicts in death row (5 foreigner)
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A lot of losers in this thread. You especially.
Pankratous
Member
Millions of families fall on hard times. Do they all become drug traffickers? Nope. It's not an excuse.
These people aren't drug trafficking victims, but drug traffickers themselves. Also, smuggling heroine and cocaine into a foreign country isn't a reasonable way to feed your family.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
People should also consider how easy it is to plant drugs in someone's luggage and how hard it is to get acquitted for it when wrongfully accused.
This is a fairly famous example of that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schapelle_Corby
This is a fairly famous example of that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schapelle_Corby
soundahfekz
Member
This is what happens when motherfuckers never get fresh air and actually LIVE.
You have to absolutely love sheltered people and their opinions, lol
teruterubozu
Member
So kill 'em all?
I thought this one already debunked.. her family had history with drug dealing, aussie press not even gunning Indonesia hard anymore after knowing that.
Ganzlinger
Member
Death penalty for stuff like this is messed up.. what if someone tries to kill you/get rid of you by putting drugs into your bag and calling the cops? Could happen...
I have to agree with this. Any country pulling that kind of horrifying procedure is seen as barbaric through my eyes
Honestly, countries with the death penalty still blow my mind. It is basically state sanctioned murder. If only people show a little more empathy and compassion to their fellow humans. "To err is human to forgive divine".
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Yes sure, but every person who knows drug trafficking knows that they have higher ups who are giving them these drugs to sell. Someone of these people don't have the choice but the puppet master behind all operations get to breathe and create another vulnerable squad to do it all again.
Sometimes it's the only way especially when you have nothing left. I know we in US are accustom to Marijana being conventional now but the death penalty was also being used for people who sold these drugs back in the day as well and it wasn't right at all. I can't support the death penalty for people who aren't killing people. Especially when the people buying drugs are the ones who need help. We can go on about how drug trafficking is bad but what about the people who make the choice to buy drugs they don't need?
Greedy? Is that even a word you can give to someone who's peddling drugs? Sorry, but if they have a job and still are doing it... The most common reason is because it's simply not enough to sustain life period. These probably aren't rich millionaires flying across country just to sell coke..
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
I heard there was a prominent theory her father planted the drugs, but she may not have known about that. What you're saying could be right, but it doesn't mean planting drugs on someone doesn't actually occur.
No, I'm not saying they should be killed. They should do hard time - not be killed. I'm saying spend your sympathy on victims of actual injustice not over-zealous justice. These people reasonably knew what they were getting into.
You're giving fictitious characteristics to their personalities and situations. For all any of us know they are hardened opportunists, looking to make some money, and who didn't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.
Its okay if a few eggs get cracked if only to reach that bottomline.
But can you seriously not expect some on NeoGAF to be so deviod of empathy and so far removed from the reality of state sanctioned murder being a political bandaid in regards to the issue of crime. Its not a deterrent, its just a flashy song and dance for the masses that get hard for retributive justice.
I honestly have no respect for anyone that can seem to glorify capital punishment, I expect that to be mutual.
I'm not OK with it, but did these people really have to put themselves at this situation? If if they had no idea about Indonesia's laws they still had to know that transporting drugs is a huge risk and that the package they're delivering is going to harm someone.
Of course not, why would a kingpin put themselves at risk? And like I said before we don't know the actual real life situation of these people. Some might have truly been desperate but others might have been suckered into doing it because they just wanted more money, not because they needed it.
While its true, again.. execution is actually pretty rare at indonesia, even with the president statement he planning give less "amnesty" for the death convict and sped up the process, one that holding few amount wouldn't get this severe sentence.
If you borrow something like 5kg+ in your bag though, well tough break maybe waiting for you.
Seductivpancakes
Member
They should just send the traffickers back to their home countries and ban them from every returning to Indonesia.
No one dies, and they ain't got to waste a bullet.
No one dies, and they ain't got to waste a bullet.
RockTurtle
Member
i think death penalty is too harsh a punishment.
but i do not think that drug traffickers are wholly innocent and should pay their dues to society.
but i do not think that drug traffickers are wholly innocent and should pay their dues to society.
SneakyStephan
Banned
You really wrecked that guy
Neither is manufacturing and distributing alcohol (ruins millions of lives, ruined several lives in my family, most likely ruined one or more in yours), yet that is a billion euro industry...
Death to the peons who mule other drugs though.
Double standards are so great, especially when drunk , am I right?
womfalcs3
Banned
Sometimes you have to amputate an infected limb to save the body. The death penalty for capital crimes is also lower in cost to society than a life sentence.
SneakyStephan
Banned
You described 90 percent of the corporate branch of any company in the world
Not sure if that is grounds for the death penalty
LostCaress
Member
Being against the death penalty, I obviously am not OK with this. The amount of care I give depends on the specific circumstance of each of the convicts.
What or who is being saved by killing these traffickers? I don't think the death penalty solves anything.
Nobody is excusing the act. They just think the act should not be met with death.
Not in the United States. It is more expensive due to the special care they have to be given in prison and in courts.
No it's not. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/05/01/considering-the-death-penalty-your-tax-dollars-at-work/
It's more expensive to execute, at least in the US.
clay_ghost
Member
The family and friends suffering because of those who have succumb to hard drugs? people who do crimes in order to sustain their drugs lifestyle? Death penalty solves some things but its not THE solution but its a huge deterrence. I do hope they can be more efficient at preventing these issues but Asia on the overall is corrupted .............
Chuckie
Member
Do you have any proof it is indeed a deterrence?
MagnaderAlpha
Member
Should drug dealers be punished? Yes. Should drug dealing be punishable by DEATH? Fuck no!
But, allow me to play devil's advocate just slightly. I like to think we've become a more cynical society, less trusting and suspicious of danger(maybe too suspicious at times). Not condoning it, there are PLENTY of great Western nations out there to deal drugs within, why choose to do so a place with such a HARSH penalty if you are caught(and this is regarding the guys caught not native to Indonesia, who obviously bought a ticket to go there and push drugs)? Hell, I know we like to think we SHOULD have the right to go anywhere and do anything, but cynical realism tells us this is a fool's dream(and if such a thing is EVER able to be, we are a LONG way off). I know for a fact there are places I would NEVER go in my lifetime because of how bad(either overly strict or crime ridden) they are. I would never go to the Middle East nor Israel(no offense to Muslim and Israeli gaffers). I sure as hell would never vacation in North Korea. I wouldn't go to the more cartel-run areas of South and Central American(hell, not even Mexico). Hell, even in good ol' U.S of A, I don't think I'd ever travel to some ares of the South, and even in SoCali, if you live in a city or area, you KNOW which parts to avoid(because they are the "bad" areas of town). It's like walking into the savannah in Africa and not expecting to be pounced on by Lions and Hyenas(oddly enough, there are places I don't hike BECAUSE of fuckin' Mountain Lions). And when people encounter horrible atrocities upon venturing the rather unsavory ares of the world, they say, "It shouldn't be this way.", but it is that way. It's not right, sure, but that's the way it is.
But regardless of all that, devil's advocate aside, I don't condone Indonesia's penalty for drug dealing.
But, allow me to play devil's advocate just slightly. I like to think we've become a more cynical society, less trusting and suspicious of danger(maybe too suspicious at times). Not condoning it, there are PLENTY of great Western nations out there to deal drugs within, why choose to do so a place with such a HARSH penalty if you are caught(and this is regarding the guys caught not native to Indonesia, who obviously bought a ticket to go there and push drugs)? Hell, I know we like to think we SHOULD have the right to go anywhere and do anything, but cynical realism tells us this is a fool's dream(and if such a thing is EVER able to be, we are a LONG way off). I know for a fact there are places I would NEVER go in my lifetime because of how bad(either overly strict or crime ridden) they are. I would never go to the Middle East nor Israel(no offense to Muslim and Israeli gaffers). I sure as hell would never vacation in North Korea. I wouldn't go to the more cartel-run areas of South and Central American(hell, not even Mexico). Hell, even in good ol' U.S of A, I don't think I'd ever travel to some ares of the South, and even in SoCali, if you live in a city or area, you KNOW which parts to avoid(because they are the "bad" areas of town). It's like walking into the savannah in Africa and not expecting to be pounced on by Lions and Hyenas(oddly enough, there are places I don't hike BECAUSE of fuckin' Mountain Lions). And when people encounter horrible atrocities upon venturing the rather unsavory ares of the world, they say, "It shouldn't be this way.", but it is that way. It's not right, sure, but that's the way it is.
But regardless of all that, devil's advocate aside, I don't condone Indonesia's penalty for drug dealing.
Well, that's not a crime is it? And anyway, I used that to illustrate the point that their supposed motivations for trafficking heroine is fictitious. All we know is that these people were trafficking (not petty dealing or using) heroine and cocaine in a country that is known for heavy-handed anti-drug laws.
Also, again, I'm not saying they should be executed.
BlitzerRadic
Member
hardly having a choice means you still had a choice.
Guy who started silk road did that.
Fuck drug traffickers.
You should watch a movie called Brokedown Palace. Not particularly great but deals with similar issues.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I don't know about Indonesia, but most drug dealing in America pays less than the minimum wage and it's pretty much the last resort for people.
They'll still die when the drug lord finds out that they don't have the drugs or money.
clay_ghost
Member
In Singapore at least
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jun/05/singapore-policy-drugs-bay
http://www.cnb.gov.sg/drugsituationreport/drugsituationreport2006.aspx
http://www.toggle.sg/en/series/there-was-a-time-s2-catch-up/ep4/316448
its even higher before but i can't find the info now.
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toggle is not free sorry..........
http://xin.msn.com/en-sg/video/watc...e-70s/vp-44e0dcba-5da4-4737-aa4f-c8c142569496
SneakyStephan
Banned
So again death penalty for people who indirectly ruin lives?
Payday loan company employees, insurance company legal branch, brewery employees, any quack that suckers sick people (with cancer etc) into forgoing treatment for 'alternative medicine', telemarketers who prey on old people's pensions.
If you're going to be consistent I could actually respect that, but I'm guessing you're not
Mohonky
Member
Haha fuck off. This is such a load of shit.
Her family are well known to be drug dealers, a mate of mine from the GC we used to go clubbing with in Brisbane knew them to be dealers. Even their lawyer admitted the defense they argued about someone planting the drugs in her bodyboard case was a complete load of shit they made up to get some sort of doubt going. My best friends cousin was a baggage handler and had to go to Bali to testify during her case.
The whole thing was a shit show and the only reason it garnered any attention was because a young good looking girl got caught with a load of drugs despite the fact plenty of Aussies get done all the time. Then came the claim the baggage handlers must have put them into her bag which sparked a frenzy of people buying double lock ups for their bags in case they ended up in a similar situation and again, even her defense lawyer said this was a load of shit and they were only trying it on because they felt it was the only real plausible excuse they could come up with to put some doubt in the judges mind.
The only real defense Schapelle had was that surely, no one would be fucking dumb enough to traffic that amount of weed into the country the way she did, particularly as weed isnt nearly that profitable.
The likely scenario is that she either didnt know the drugs were there and her family just used her, or that she did know and the drugs were there and that the drugs and / or bodyboard was supposed to be picked up by a baggage worker during a stop over in Sydney but that it didnt happen and so both went onto Bali.
Anyone who believes she is innocent entirely innocent is a fool.
clay_ghost
Member
They don't kill people though :/
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Drug trafficking funds/ funded local crime ring . Reducing their primary source of income reduces their influences and resources that lead to death and injury to the public and facilitates, job market and even racial and religious harmony (Gangs fighting others gangs of different race and religion that can stir up tensions between normal public etc)
Its not a simple issue relating to only those in the trade .
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Entirely possible. I'm not that familiar with the case as I'm not Australian. Still, this doesn't mean smuggling by proxy never happens and innocents don't get caught up in it.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
True. It's like what? Do people really not know why drug dealers deal drugs?
SneakyStephan
Banned
Neither do drug mules. Alcohol kills people btw (bet it kills a lot more people than other drugs do), as does the alternative medicine rubbish, and insurance companies who refuse to pay for surgeries etc cripple people (there's a thread on gaf about someone blinded in a work accident where they won't cover his surgery, it's heartbreaking) ,
These are all bad people who destroy lives, so if you're going to make an argument be consistent about it.
clay_ghost
Member
I am speaking of local sense where alternative medicine rubbish is control (as in all BS are outright Ban and can get you in jail , insurance are regulated and companies must pay for insurance and ensure workers are well taken care of).
Therefore locally there are little of these cases happening (none of the insurance thingy in recent years at all) and leads to little death .
For Alcohol , it depends of the situation , you can still be charged for murder in some cases .
Sometime US seems to be behind in some policies :/
IMO If death penalty can be replaced by something as efficient , why not but until then ......?
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i am not typing right with the () thing and all lol
going to sleep now its 1am here
Last post .
they may be addicts themselves who can't afford their habits and have to find someways to sustains it too.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Most of the people who do the trafficking grew up in poverty.
Who the hell grows up in an established home and looks forward to moving drugs.
Assuming they are rich and had no reason to dwell into selling drugs, it still makes no sense to put someone to death for moving around kilos of drugs.
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