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[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Most of the people who do the trafficking grew up in poverty.

Who the hell grows up in an established home and looks forward to moving drugs.

This is what I'm saying. I've known drug dealers, shoot, I grew up in BK where it's live and never once have I walked into someone selling drugs because they already come from a established family with money etc. Majority of drug dealers come from poverty and it's the only way they can make money quick.

 

[Mohonky]

Entirely possible. I'm not that familiar with the case as I'm not Australian. Still, this doesn't mean smuggling by proxy never happens and innocents don't get caught up in it.

Heres what usually happens;

- the smuggler is coerced into smuggling the drugs because they have a debt to a crime ring (ie. bikies) and are made to smuggle the drugs as a means of wiping a debt or to keep their family from harm.

(incidentally, one of the Bali 9 was a mates brothers friend, he only did it for this reason, he was 18 at the time from memory)

- someone on the other end of the line working at customs is paid off to turn a blind eye as the drugs come through. It is possible the drug mule goes to the wrong officer or that officer for some reason doesnt appear to be working that day or in that area.

- someone with a small amount of drugs is told everything is setup and is good to go all they need to do is see person X to pass through and it's all already organised. Except they are being used as a decoy, so anonymous tip comes in officials are waiting for person of x description or name and while that person gets all the attention someone else is carrying the main supply comes across less scrutiny as the attention is focussed elsewhere.



Smuggling by proxy may happen but its too unreliable; the person being used as the mule doesnt believe they have anything to hide so they are less inclined to being inconspicious and secondly you still have to tail them after the trip to make sure you can even retrieve the items you smuggled.

Supposing smuggling by proxy was even remotely considered a reasonable method, there is no way in hell Schapelle was a proxy, she had 4kg of weed on her. She's going to notice that extra weight in a bodyboard bag and its obvious the bag would get checked. If that was tour idea of a proxy, you might as well have not even bothered trying to smuggle it as it was always going to end the same way; her in jail and the weed confiscated.

 

[lord quas]

I'm absolutely disgusted by some people in this thread. The death penalty is NEVER acceptable and countries that resort to such primitive measures are 100% backwards.

 

[Prine]

Plenty of victims' families have spoken and continue to speak out against capital punishment. Stop trying to talk about your bloodlust as if it's only normal and to be expected when it's not.

I know of friends and know personally that capital punishment for serious crimes doesnt make the pain go away but does at least help sleep at night, at least knowing the offender isnt given the same privilege that they stole from a loved one. And your getting too emotional, go read what bloodlust means, there's no intrinsic thirst, it wasn't there before.

Still no problem buddy imo, should be reserved for the most despicable crimes.

 

[chocolate disco]

Death penalty is barbaric, no matter the crime.

Barbaric? Such a strong word.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Heres what usually happens;

- the smuggler is coerced into smuggling the drugs because they have a debt to a crime ring (ie. bikies) and are made to smuggle the drugs as a means of wiping a debt or to keep their family from harm.

(incidentally, one of the Bali 9 was a mates brothers friend, he only did it for this reason, he was 18 at the time from memory)

- someone on the other end of the line working at customs is paid off to turn a blind eye as the drugs come through. It is possible the drug mule goes to the wrong officer or that officer for some reason doesnt appear to be working that day or in that area.

- someone with a small amount of drugs is told everything is setup and is good to go all they need to do is see person X to pass through and it's all already organised. Except they are being used as a decoy, so anonymous tip comes in officials are waiting for person of x description or name and while that person gets all the attention someone else is carrying the main supply comes across less scrutiny as the attention is focussed elsewhere.



Smuggling by proxy may happen but its too unreliable; the person being used as the mule doesnt believe they have anything to hide so they are less inclined to being inconspicious and secondly you still have to tail them after the trip to make sure you can even retrieve the items you smuggled.

Supposing smuggling by proxy was even remotely considered a reasonable method, there is no way in hell Schapelle was a proxy, she had 4kg of weed on her. She's going to notice that extra weight in a bodyboard bag and its obvious the bag would get checked. If that was tour idea of a proxy, you might as well have not even bothered trying to smuggle it as it was always going to end the same way; her in jail and the weed confiscated.

Alright. I appreciate the write-up.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

they may be addicts themselves who can't afford their habits and have to find someways to sustains it too.

?

Wouldn't they just buy it?

This is what I'm saying. I've known drug dealers, shoot, I grew up in BK where it's live and never once have I walked into someone selling drugs because they already come from a established family with money etc. Majority of drug dealers come from poverty and it's the only way they can make money quick.

Yep. Two of my cousins grew up without a dad because no one wouldn't hire them. So many important days missed trying to support their children and the mothers.

My aunts and uncles who had college or did military never once had to start selling drugs. Why give up a stable, good paying job for something you can potentially get killed in?

I feel like some of the people in this thread who support the death penalty for this don't understand the other side and what circumstances these people could have been in. And even if all six of these criminals were in no situation to do trafficking, these sentences are totally unnecessary.

 

[Zoned]

Any country imposing the death penalty is barbaric, and unfit to join the civilised world.

Yeah let's not pretend that America is a saint either.

 

[Chuckie]

In Singapore at least


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jun/05/singapore-policy-drugs-bay

http://www.cnb.gov.sg/drugsituationreport/drugsituationreport2006.aspx

http://www.toggle.sg/en/series/there-was-a-time-s2-catch-up/ep4/316448

its even higher before but i can't find the info now.

edit

toggle is not free sorry..........

http://xin.msn.com/en-sg/video/watc...e-70s/vp-44e0dcba-5da4-4737-aa4f-c8c142569496

Reading those articles I would think that their drug rehabilitation programs are more a factor in the success than the death penalty, but it would be hard to determine that.

 

[Elchele]

Drug trade kills thousands of people around the world every year, i'm sorry but as a mexican i have zero tolerance for drug dealers and trafickers.

Pretty much. People defending them is because they live in countries where drug traffickers and dealers haven't completely ruined the society.

More countries should adopt these laws

 

[iamaustrian]

Indonesia makes it VERY CLEAR that you shouldn't be involved with drugs in any way or otherwise it could be your end.

I took this picture at our last indonesia (band) tour. This is one of the first things you see after you get off your plane and entering jakarta airport:

they just don't fuck around

 

[diaspora]

Well that's a shame.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

Where are all the pro death penalty people in this tread from? That's a harsh view.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Drug trade kills thousands of people around the world every year, i'm sorry but as a mexican i have zero tolerance for drug dealers and trafickers.

"I need loot, so I do what I do"

I hope that you are not a person rife with privilege and options saying this.

 

[alterno69]

"I need loot, so I do what I do"

I hope that you are not a person rife with privilege and options saying this.

I'm one of the millions of mexican affected by the drug war, does that count?


Edit: People who go into the drug bussines know what they get into, they are contributing to one of the worse problems third world countries face daily, maybe the problem is seen diferently in developed places cause most of the blood is spilled elsewhere but living in Mexico, you'd have a diferent perspective.

 

[speculawyer]

Fuck drug traffickers.

+1

Only problem is the long jail time, a month is long enough to write a will.

.

(Death is too harsh, would prefer life sentence)

Fuck drug traffickers though.

I don't understand this. If you don't like drugs then don't do them.

And I also suspect that you guys are a bit hypocritical because likely use some drugs whether they be anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, pain medications, alcohol, caffeine, etc.

 

[CLBridges]

I always wonder how many innocent people have been killed based on this law there. Drug trafficker gets a hunch the heat is about to go down, drops a bag in someone's else stuff and so on. Scary stuff man, wouldn't visit there, feels to risky.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I'm one of the millions of mexican affected by the drug war, does that count?


Edit: People who go into the drug bussines know what they get into, they are contributing to one of the worse problems third world countries face daily, maybe the problem is seen diferently in developed places cause most of the blood is spilled elsewhere but living in Mexico, you'd have a diferent perspective.

Drugs are a problem from the top to the bottom, there are all kinds of interests. Regardless, just because you are dealing/trafficking doesn't mean that you get to die by the governments hand. As a low denominator that is for the extreme (killers, big-timers, etc).

 

[rrvv]

I found drug issue is grey on grey morality and heavily effected on country you live in.

If you living in developed country where drug is pretty much last option and have proper facilities that can help out to deal wit your life problem. Then I can see why people defense it as it simply a "choice" you can make.

But not every country like that. In fact most of the country in the world is not like that. Most people in those country is "forced" to take drug as solution of their life. Even thought there is clearly better way to solve it. But lack of knowledge and facility prevent that. And while people in develop country that use drug that can have better life. Most of the time. Life of people in not-so-develop country is ruined because of the drug and will certainly effected to people around it.

Well you can say the country is "uncivilized", Which may true is some regard. But you also have to realized majority of country in this world is "uncivilized" by your standard. Not everyone living in modern western country. We need more time for and development in order for a country to finally accept and use drug for good use.

Now for death penalty. Might not be best solution but I can see why Indonesia implemented it for drug trafficker consider the country heavily effected by it. You cannot make it disappear but you can see the country give you clear massage that they are not ready for drug at the moment

 

[alterno69]

They knew the laws before braking them i'm sure, we're not talking about a pair of junkies with a couple of grams on them, they had thousands of dollars worth of coke with them, that could easily mean thousans of indonisian lifes directly affected.

 

[dapperbandit]

I don't understand this. If you don't like drugs then don't do them.

And I also suspect that you guys are a bit hypocritical because likely use some drugs whether they be anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, pain medications, alcohol, caffeine, etc.

Don't you think that's a little naive?

You can handwave things like marijuana to an extent.

But stuff like cocaine and heroin fuck hundreds of thousands of people over, not even including the end user. As an industry the drug trade messes up whole countries, as seen in Mexico and places like Columbia. The Taliban make a lot of money for themselves growing poppies to make opium. So people who buy and sell these kinds of drugs may directly finance terrorists or drug cartels responsible for mass murder and torture.

It's not a case of "if you don't like them, don't use them" and making limp comparisons to medications and caffeine. It's about being concerned that someone is trying to sell something often life destroying to your youth and making some of the worst people in the world richer in the process.

To clarify, I'm not really in favour of the death penalty for traffickers but I have limited sympathy for them.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Do people who support death for drug traffickers also support the death penalty in the US?

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

People who try to smuggle drugs in Asian countries must be absolutely bonkers

 

[Condom]

Fuck drug traffickers.

Why exactly?

The notion that drugs are Satan is damaging common sense. Drug traffickers do nothing wrong but not paying their taxes.

 

[tmarques]

It definitely is, but not one that warrants the death penalty. It's probably better than whatever prison they would have been sent to, but yeah, the drug trade is a heinous industry for pretty much everyone involved.

Some of them have been in jail for over 10 years.

 

[mr2xxx]

Death penalty is barbaric but I'm not feeling any sympathy for these people. Typical low level drug dealers in the U.S I have empathy for due to the environment they were raised in. But when you get a passport and choose to import drugs into a country with the death penalty, naw you made your choice.

 

[Yaboosh]

Why exactly?

The notion that drugs are Satan is damaging common sense. Drug traffickers do nothing wrong but not paying their taxes.

Lol.

 

[Violet_0]

Fuck drug traffickers.

I think this might be the worst use of this image, ever

 

[dEvAnGeL]

Fuck drug traffickers.

one day you will have family if you don't have one already, pray to god that your kids never go down that road, because fuck drug traffickers right?

 

[genjiZERO]

Why exactly?

The notion that drugs are Satan is damaging common sense. Drug traffickers do nothing wrong but not paying their taxes.

Those killed or had their lives destroyed all the way from Colombia to Mexico disagree with you.

 

[rrvv]

one day you will have family if you don't have one already, pray to god that your kids never go down that road, because fuck drug traffickers right?

Honestly If I have the Kid that do drug trafficking in large quantity and s/he knew the risk. I am just going to simply accepted the fact.

 

[kiunchbb]

Heroin ruins lifes, but death is a bit much, may be 20 years jail time is more fair.

 

[Prologue]

one day you will have family if you don't have one already, pray to god that your kids never go down that road, because fuck drug traffickers right?

If I had a kid that sold drugs, I'd beat him and then turn him in myself. My own mother would have done the same to me, especially with how hard she worked her entire life to support me as a single parent. Death penalty is harsh. To be honest, I just don't know how I feel about it. I understand a good amount of people are desperate and end up turning to the wrong people. I'm sure others are forced into it. I'm hispanic and grew up in the bronx so I've seen my share of things.


It was less than a year ago where people were hanging from trees Mexico due to people snitching on cops/drug traffickers. Wasn't there another mass burial not too long ago too? What about the server drug problem NY had in the 60s-80s where a good majority of cops were fired because they were crooked? And opium situation in china back in the day.

More lax laws increases a teenagers ability to find drugs.It promotes more crimes on the streets from people who are desperate for them. It promotes more gang activities in society and even more drug trafficking. The cycle just gets worse and worse.

Can you really blame a society for being this extreme and not wanting to deal with those issues? They be taking a barbaric approach, but that country has enough problems as it is and they just don't want to deal with that.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

If I had a kid that sold drugs, I'd beat him and then turn him in myself. My own mother would have done the same to me, especially with how hard she worked her entire life to support me as a single parent. Death penalty is harsh. To be honest, I just don't know how I feel about it. I understand a good amount of people are desperate and end up turning to the wrong people. I'm sure others are forced into it. I'm hispanic and grew up in the bronx so I've seen my share of things.


It was less than a year ago where people were hanging from trees Mexico due to people snitching on cops/drug traffickers. Wasn't there another mass burial not too long ago too? What about the server drug problem NY had in the 60s-80s where a good majority of cops were fired because they were crooked? And opium situation in china back in the day.

Can you really blame a society for being this extreme and not wanting to deal with those issues? That country has enough problems as it is and it can really bring a society down.

Yeah, I'm sure holding the traffikers in jail for 12 years, and then murdering them in cold blood will solve everything, or you know, anything.

Hey, crazies, go watch Maria Full of Grace or something, it might wash some some that stink off ya.

 

[Prologue]

Yeah, I'm sure holding the traffikers in jail for 12 years, and then murdering them in cold blood will solve everything, or you know, anything.

Hey, crazies, go watch Maria Full of Grace or something, it might wash some some that stink off ya.

I actually watched that last year. Like I said, I'm sure the majority of traffickers are desperate and forced into it by the hand life dealt them. But I'm worried about the kids too. I'm worried about the families, the corruption it can cause in the police force. This is a long term issue with my factors.

Its not a simple problem and I didn't say I agreed with them.

 

[Spongebob]

Yeah, I'm sure holding the traffikers in jail for 12 years, and then murdering them in cold blood will solve everything, or you know, anything.

Hey, crazies, go watch Maria Full of Grace or something, it might wash some some that stink off ya.

This is dishonest at best.

 

[speculawyer]

But stuff like cocaine and heroin fuck hundreds of thousands of people over, not even including the end user. As an industry the drug trade messes up whole countries, as seen in Mexico and places like Columbia. The Taliban make a lot of money for themselves growing poppies to make opium. So people who buy and sell these kinds of drugs may directly finance terrorists or drug cartels responsible for mass murder and torture.

This is a terrible argument. The problem you are talking is the violence. And the reason the violence exists is because the drugs are illegal thus creating a large and very lucrative illegal drug trade. So it is the making them illegal that causes that violence, not the drugs themselves. If they were legal, that violence would go away (although I believe the problems due to addiction, overdoses, drugged-driving, etc. would be a larger)

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

This is dishonest at best.

It's death by firing squad for moving fucking drugs, after rotting away in an Indonesian prison for over a decade. That's pretty damn cold . Also, the death penalty needs to fuck right off, and it's kind of amazing to me that over half the states in the US still have it on the table.

 

[Spongebob]

This is a terrible argument. The problem you are talking is the violence. And the reason the violence exists is because the drugs are illegal thus creating a large and very lucrative illegal drug trade. So it is the making them illegal that causes that violence, not the drugs themselves. If they were legal, that violence would go away (although I believe the problems due to addiction, overdoses, drugged-driving, etc. would be a larger)

...drugs are bad and need to be abolished.

 

[spons]

The Dutchman got executed for making XTC, which is nothing more than an innocent party drug. When used with care almost no drugs are bad, except heroin because of its addictive properties.

And when kids can't get drugs they'll just crush Ritalin and snort it. Can't blame 'em. The world sucks and drugs make life easier.

 

[akira28]

Not really. Drug traffickers aim to profit from the destruction of society. Convicted traffickers deserve death.

they destruct society? how does they do this, pray tell?


sorry, but I have to agree, people who take a hard line "zero tolerance" stance are not thinking things completely through.

 

[Spongebob]

It's death by firing squad for moving fucking drugs, after rotting away in an Indonesian prison for over a decade. That's pretty damn cold . Also, the death penalty needs to fuck right off, and it's kind of amazing to me that over half the states in the US still have it on the table.

They're being executed for trafficking poisonous substances which are detriment to society. They were aware of the consequences and thus forfeited their lives.

 

[HOMEBOY OVER HERE]

Are there studies if the harsh sentences actually work in reducing drug trafficking / substance abuse?

At least it sounds like it would be a better deterrence for it than for e.g. committing murder (which often has emotional reasons behind it etc.).

even if studies proved it kept more drugs out it still would absolutely not be acceptable morally to execute drug smugglers. I feel the same about every criminal but regardless of what a study may find, an institution that kills life is terrible n matter what.

 

[Rur0ni]

Not a fan of drug culture. But whatever right, can't police everyone. "If he dies, he dies."

That said, you have got to be an idiot to get involved in drugs in Indonesia. You can't even feign ignorance about it. Drugs = Death, period.

 

[speculawyer]

...drugs are bad and need to be abolished.

You can't "abolish" a thing that exists from existing.

You can only make rules in attempts of limiting the effects of things. And you need to be careful that the rules you make do not cause more problems than they solve. If the increased problems from addiction, overdoses, drugged-driving, etc. is smaller than the drug cartel violence and the costs of chasing, prosecuting, and imprisoning drug dealers, then the rational logical thing to do would be to change the laws.

 

[whatever77]

Good.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

They're being executed for trafficking poisonous substances which are detriment to society. They were aware of the consequences and thus forfeited their lives.

Fuck me.

 

[Jarrod38]

Has any American been scented to death in an another country over drug dealing?

 

[HOMEBOY OVER HERE]

This is a terrible argument. The problem you are talking is the violence. And the reason the violence exists is because the drugs are illegal thus creating a large and very lucrative illegal drug trade. So it is the making them illegal that causes that violence, not the drugs themselves. If they were legal, that violence would go away (although I believe the problems due to addiction, overdoses, drugged-driving, etc. would be a larger)

countries would have more funds from less spent on anti drug armies. not to mention these issues would come face to face with the population. I doubt they would grow much. I honestly think they would go down. drug use is much safer in countries that have it legalized and regulated. ever places where the doctors give out heroin. the junkies were able to find actual jobs because they weren't hustling all day to find a fix. many more people were able to get clean the entire war on drugs is fear filled and relies on a huge system that is out of just a few leaders controls. It needs to slowly start being dismantled and abolished.

 

[Spongebob]

You can't "abolish" a thing that exists from existing.

You can only make rules in attempts of limiting the effects of things. And you need to be careful that the rules you make do not cause more problems than they solve. If the increased problems from addiction, overdoses, drugged-driving, etc. is smaller than the drug cartel violence and the costs of chasing, prosecuting, and imprisoning drug dealers, then the rational logical thing to do would be to change the laws.

Getting rid of drugs can't be done solely through legislation. The mentality of the society at large has to be changed.