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[winjer]

What the fuck?! That is NOT acceptable. Holy shit. I didn't think it was THIS bad.

And the worst part is that Intel is still not sure of what is causing these issues.

What Intel didn’t write on Reddit but thinks internally - The search for the solution to the Raptor Lake S instabilities continues (Leak) | igor´sLAB

I already posted yesterday in a news item and briefly commented on what Intel officially published on the night of 22 July 2024 via Reddit as a kind of interim report. However…

www.igorslab.de

– Intel observes a significant increase to the minimum operating voltage (Vmin) across multiple cores on returned affected processors from customers.
– This increase is similar in outcome to parts subjected to elevated voltage and temperature conditions for reliability testing.
– Factors contributing to this Vmin increase include elevated voltage, high frequency, and elevated temperature.
– Even under idle conditions at relatively cool temperatures, sporadic elevated voltages are observed when the processor is resumed from low power states in order to service background operations before entering a low power state again.
– At a sufficiently high voltage, these short-duration events can accumulate over time, contributing to the increase in Vmin.
– Intel analysis indicates a need to reduce the maximum voltage requested by the processor in order to reduce or eliminate accumulated exposure to voltages which may result in an increase to Vmin.
– While Intel has confirmed elevated voltages impact the increase in Vmin, investigation continues in order to fully understand root cause and address other potential aspects of this issue.
––Intel—

 

[Closer]

It should still beat Zen5 in gaming, and could launch as soon as 2-months later now that AMD recalled all thier Zen5 CPUs

Imagine paying new money for last gen power

 

[The Mad Draklor]

And the worst part is that Intel is still not sure of what is causing these issues.

What Intel didn’t write on Reddit but thinks internally - The search for the solution to the Raptor Lake S instabilities continues (Leak) | igor´sLAB

I already posted yesterday in a news item and briefly commented on what Intel officially published on the night of 22 July 2024 via Reddit as a kind of interim report. However…

www.igorslab.de

– Intel observes a significant increase to the minimum operating voltage (Vmin) across multiple cores on returned affected processors from customers.
– This increase is similar in outcome to parts subjected to elevated voltage and temperature conditions for reliability testing.
– Factors contributing to this Vmin increase include elevated voltage, high frequency, and elevated temperature.
– Even under idle conditions at relatively cool temperatures, sporadic elevated voltages are observed when the processor is resumed from low power states in order to service background operations before entering a low power state again.
– At a sufficiently high voltage, these short-duration events can accumulate over time, contributing to the increase in Vmin.
– Intel analysis indicates a need to reduce the maximum voltage requested by the processor in order to reduce or eliminate accumulated exposure to voltages which may result in an increase to Vmin.
– While Intel has confirmed elevated voltages impact the increase in Vmin, investigation continues in order to fully understand root cause and address other potential aspects of this issue.
––Intel—

I wouldn't be surprised if this news made AMD more comfortable delaying Zen 5. Why not wait until post-microcode patch to launch their product?

 

[Zathalus]

Imagine paying new money for last gen power

Is those leaked benchmarks are true it doesn’t appear Intel are beating Zen 5 at anything. The gaming gap between Intel and the X3D chips may actually widen.

 

[Closer]

Is those leaked benchmarks are true it doesn’t appear Intel are beating Zen 5 at anything. The gaming gap between Intel and the X3D chips may actually widen.

Yeah, but trading blows with 1.5-2 year old (last gen) CPUs is for bad CPUs, as we've been told before

 

[winjer]

Seems like the new Microcode, to be released in August, still won't fix these issues, because Intel still doesn't know the cause for the instability.

Leaked Reports Suggest Intel Raptor Lake CPU Instability Continues

Recent internal reports suggest that Intel's stability problems with its Raptor Lake processors may not be fully resolved. Elevated voltages have been identified as a potential cause of CPU crashes, but they may not be the only factor contributing to these issues.

www.guru3d.com

While Intel has identified elevated voltages as a significant factor in Raptor Lake processor instability, other potential causes are still under investigation. The effectiveness of the planned microcode update remains uncertain, and ongoing validation work aims to ensure a comprehensive resolution of these issues. This situation emphasises the complexities of addressing stability problems in high-performance processors and highlights the need for continued monitoring and refinement of mitigation strategies.

 

[Insane Metal]

And the worst part is that Intel is still not sure of what is causing these issues.

What Intel didn’t write on Reddit but thinks internally - The search for the solution to the Raptor Lake S instabilities continues (Leak) | igor´sLAB

I already posted yesterday in a news item and briefly commented on what Intel officially published on the night of 22 July 2024 via Reddit as a kind of interim report. However…

www.igorslab.de

– Intel observes a significant increase to the minimum operating voltage (Vmin) across multiple cores on returned affected processors from customers.
– This increase is similar in outcome to parts subjected to elevated voltage and temperature conditions for reliability testing.
– Factors contributing to this Vmin increase include elevated voltage, high frequency, and elevated temperature.
– Even under idle conditions at relatively cool temperatures, sporadic elevated voltages are observed when the processor is resumed from low power states in order to service background operations before entering a low power state again.
– At a sufficiently high voltage, these short-duration events can accumulate over time, contributing to the increase in Vmin.
– Intel analysis indicates a need to reduce the maximum voltage requested by the processor in order to reduce or eliminate accumulated exposure to voltages which may result in an increase to Vmin.
– While Intel has confirmed elevated voltages impact the increase in Vmin, investigation continues in order to fully understand root cause and address other potential aspects of this issue.
––Intel—

And I thought the 14nm stuff from Intel were the worst they could do.

 

[Rentahamster]

Own a I5-13600k for 2 years and didn’t had a single crash.

The lower end models aren't susceptible as much as the juiced up 700s and 900s.

 

[Bojji]

Seems like the new Microcode, to be released in August, still won't fix these issues, because Intel still doesn't know the cause for the instability.

Leaked Reports Suggest Intel Raptor Lake CPU Instability Continues

Recent internal reports suggest that Intel's stability problems with its Raptor Lake processors may not be fully resolved. Elevated voltages have been identified as a potential cause of CPU crashes, but they may not be the only factor contributing to these issues.

www.guru3d.com

It will maybe extend life of CPUs that are "fine" so far but units with issues are already damaged.

 

[winjer]

It will maybe extend life of CPUs that are "fine" so far but units with issues are already damaged.

The problem is that even CPUs that are still stable now, have already degraded somewhat, so instead of lasting a few decades, they might just last a few years.
What happens if a couple of years from now, people who have these CPUs start having stability issues, but they are already outside of the warranty period?

 

[StereoVsn]

The problem is that even CPUs that are still stable now, have already degraded somewhat, so instead of lasting a few decades, they might just last a few years.
What happens if a couple of years from now, people who have these CPUs start having stability issues, but they are already outside of the warranty period?

They get to buy NEW Intel CPUs, so Problem Solved (in Intel’s mind).

 

[Tarin02543]

The lower end models aren't susceptible as much as the juiced up 700s and 900s.

My 12100 still going strong

 

[winjer]

My 12100 still going strong

12th Gen is not affected.

 

[Insane Metal]

Let's fix that

 

[winjer]

Major European Retailers Are Witnessing "Four Times" Higher Return Rates With Intel's 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPUs

Intel's 14th & 13th Gen CPU instability issues have bothered retailers massively, as a report shows that return rates have grown a lot.

wccftech.com

Intel's 14th & 13th Gen CPU instability issues have started to bother retailers massively, as a report shows that return rates have grown by three to four times in a short period.

Intel's 14th & 13th Gen CPU Instability Issue Has Disrupted The Supply Chain Massively, As Consumers Rush Towards Getting A Refund

There is skepticism surrounding the instability fiasco, where a report emerged a few days ago which revealed that Intel is denying RMA requests, so the situation is messed up on both sides of the supply chain. The company issued a statement recently, claiming that elevated voltages are the reason behind the instability problem, but several experts over the internet are claiming that the actual issue is quite deep-rooted, which likely won't be solved easily.

 

[SolidQ]

 

[Zathalus]

I believe the link it opens is the following:

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D - Ryzen 7 7000 Series 8-Core 4.2 GHz Socket AM5 120W AMD Radeon Graphics Desktop Processor - 100-100000910WOF - Newegg.com

Buy AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D - Ryzen 7 7000 Series 8-Core 4.2 GHz Socket AM5 120W AMD Radeon Graphics Desktop Processor - 100-100000910WOF with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

 

[marquimvfs]

Lol at Leonidas tag

 

[newtypepilot]

 

[winjer]

OMG, this would be extremely funny, if it wasn't such a serious matter, that affects so many people.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Well. After watching GNs video I'll be hanging fire on taking my new 14900KS to replace my 13th gen and I'll just RMA to a 9950X3D.

GG Intel!

 

[GHG]

I'm only 10 minutes in, and holy shit what a mess of a company.

Class action lawsuits for both customers and shareholders incoming.

 

[FStubbs]

So to summarize, does this impact their entire 13th and 14th Gen lineup?

 

[Mokus]

Intel's brand name is so solid that even big mistakes would have been overlooked and they know it. This is when in the past with quality you managed to turn your customers into loyal fans.

But this blunder is getting worse from one day to the other just because it's them who are feeding the fire. No need for clickbait-atentionseeker-bloodsucking journalists here, Intel's leadership is bringing everything to the table without their help. Their current actions will cut deep even with their most loyal customers/fans. An easy and fast replacement program could have even turn this into victory just to show how "great" is Intel and stop the bad press.

Ignoring (and almost mocking) Gamers Nexus at this point is going to harm them even more. In the past few years GN built a solid reputation with the PC community about reporting on company actions made in bad faith, but very importantly they also befriended and earned the thrust of key people working in the industry. With the increasing frustration with Intel's products from multiple branches of the industry and community, many of them will collaborate with Gamers Nexus on the mater. Maybe Intel's leadership thinks it's wiser to give GN the silent treatment, but GN's reporting tends to echo in the wider PC community and they are going to regret it.

 

[Chiggs]

"Hmm, let me see, I could buy an AMD processor that trades blows with this overvolted Intel CPU that draws way more wattage and puts out way more heat....

Nah, I'm sticking with Intel."

I swear, the last couple of years of CPU purchasing decisions have really been an overall consumer aptitude test.

 

[Drake]

I must be one of the lucky ones, or my CPU hasn't started to degrade yet. I upgraded to a i5-13600kf a little over a year ago. It's run like a champ for me. Maybe a little warm here and there, but I don't think I've ever seen it hit 70. That being said I run all my shit at stock. I don't bother to overclock anymore.

 

[Insane Metal]

So to summarize, does this impact their entire 13th and 14th Gen lineup?

Apparently, yes.

I must be one of the lucky ones, or my CPU hasn't started to degrade yet. I upgraded to a i5-13600kf a little over a year ago. It's run like a champ for me. Maybe a little warm here and there, but I don't think I've ever seen it hit 70. That being said I run all my shit at stock. I don't bother to overclock anymore.

It won't affect every CPU. The high end ones are the most affected, specially the 13900K.

 

[Celcius]

Hopefully none of you dumped $700k into Intel stock right before it dropped to the lowest value in 50 years, losing $200k in the process lol

 

[tmlDan]

Hopefully none of you dumped $700k into Intel stock right before it dropped to the lowest value in 50 years, losing $200k in the process lol

its an utter disaster, i never expected this tbh - it essentially crashed

 

[Griffon]

*Me sweating bullets with a 13700hx laptop (which is practically the same as a 13700k)*

Intel ignoring laptops and only focusing on boxed desktop part is not reassuring at all. No jokes I'm afraid to launch any game now.


I wish AMD had more affordable x3D laptops, I wouldn't be in this mess...

 

[Alpha Male]

*Me sweating bullets with a 13700hx laptop (which is practically the same as a 13700k)*

Intel ignoring laptops and only focusing on boxed desktop part is not reassuring at all. No jokes I'm afraid to launch any game now.


I wish AMD had more affordable x3D laptops, I wouldn't be in this mess...

There's really no need to worry...at least not yet. It's been widely reported that any TDP under 65 watts is safe. The 13700HX is 55 watts and the 13700K is 125 watts. Supposedly none of the laptops are affected but I guess that can change... although would most likely only affect those laptops with a TDP above 65 watts.

 

[El Sabroso]

I am on 14700K, since the only crashes I had so far been using OBS (with only nvenc encoding so not that much cpu usage) and also checked hwinfo sensors the max voltages are not in those danger areas, but have taken the precaution to not update the BIOS of my mobo, is a nzxt z790 with 7.01 firmware, which I believe it was the 1st one supporting 14th gen, the mobo has its updates but seen the information what those updates are doing to performance I just will hang there until there is some confirmation of better solutions at least from BIOS mobo updates, but it seems unlikely, will just hang there until there is a new mobo cpu combo I like from AMD that supports the slots I need for my capture card

 

[Griffon]

There's really no need to worry...at least not yet. It's been widely reported that any TDP under 65 watts is safe. The 13700HX is 55 watts and the 13700K is 125 watts. Supposedly none of the laptops are affected but I guess that can change... although would most likely only affect those laptops with a TDP above 65 watts.

Thanks, really looked into it and saw that my CPU was indeed running at a pretty low wattage even during incentive tasks.
Back to gaming then.

Edit: well fuck...

 

[winjer]

There's really no need to worry...at least not yet. It's been widely reported that any TDP under 65 watts is safe. The 13700HX is 55 watts and the 13700K is 125 watts. Supposedly none of the laptops are affected but I guess that can change... although would most likely only affect those laptops with a TDP above 65 watts.

That is not correct.

Intel's crashing CPU crisis deepens as more models are affected than originally thought

The news coming out of Intel about its crashing 13th- and 14th-generation CPUs is not getting any better, even after they said they had finally "solved" the...

www.techspot.com

Intel laptop CPUs are crashing, too, as the company remains silent

Shortly after blasting Intel for the high failure rate of the company's recent CPUs, Alderon Games claims laptops running on Raptor Lake chips are no exception. The...

www.techspot.com

 

[Celcius]

 

[winjer]

Several companies are releasing an updated UEFI. So it's time to update your UEFI.
The process is relatively simple, but when in doubt, consult your motherboard manual.

MSI Releases BIOS Update for Intel Core 14th and 13th Gen Desktop Processor Instability

Regarding the instability of the Intel Core 14th /13th Gen desktop processors, MSI will release the latest BIOS of Intel 700 and 600 series motherboards and 14th /13th Generation Desktop PC with 0x129 microcode to mitigate the instability. The 1st batch of BIOS releasing models are MEG Z790...

www.techpowerup.com

ASUS Releases Microcode Update to Address Intel 14th Gen and 13th Gen Stability Issues

ASUS today became the first motherboard vendor to release UEFI firmware updates that encapsulate the latest 126 microcode update by Intel. This microcode update is Intel's response to the stability issues plaguing 14th Gen and 13th Gen Core desktop processors based on the "Raptor Lake" or...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Chiggs]

It really is time for ARM.

 

[Celcius]

 

[winjer]

So the new microcode kinda fixes somethings things, but also doesn't.
What a f***** mess.

Best quote of the analysis: "End user should not have to fix this”

18:07 summary

22:03 summary #2

 

[cebri.one]

It also looks like it conflicts with some MB configurations. It's going to take a couple of more updates to smooth all the issues.

 

[peish]

So the new microcode kinda fixes somethings things, but also doesn't.
What a f***** mess.

Best quote of the analysis: "End user should not have to fix this”

I dont understand the 2 summary points you posted. what is he yapping about?

 

[winjer]

I dont understand the 2 summary points you posted. what is he yapping about?

What he basically says:
The CPU no longer goes above 1.6v ; it's capped at 1.55v.
The way vid request are made by the CPU it's still a mess.
The way Intel defines rules for board partners is still a mess. Nvidia does it much better.
User tweaks do a better job at protecting the CPU, than what Intel did with this update.
At the 32 minute mark, he starts implementing his own tweaks.

 

[cebri.one]

I dont understand the 2 summary points you posted. what is he yapping about?

Mostly issues with some workloads. But the overall summary from people who are testing it is that the voltages spikes that were causing the degradation seem to be mostly fixed.

 

[Rentahamster]

It feels like Intel doesn't simply cap the voltage for marketing reasons.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

I have a 13900KS and its been working fine, but unless I hear that the next intel chips are mind blowingly good - My next PC will be my first ever personal AMD machine. My daughter has a 7800X3D and it's a beast.

I haven't had issues with my 13700KF, but will switch to team red when I upgrade my CPU/MoBo in a few years.

 

[marquimvfs]

User tweaks do a better job at protecting the CPU, than what Intel did with this update.

That also explains the low failure rate from Puget. I've not yet watched the video yet, but are they hard measuring the voltages from MB points or are using softwares to measure it?

 

[winjer]

That also explains the low failure rate from Puget. I've not yet watched the video yet, but are they hard measuring the voltages from MB points or are using softwares to measure it?

Hardware measurements with a professional grade oscilloscope.

 

[simpatico]

It really is time for ARM.

Thinking about this a lot lately. With Apple Ms and the Snapdragon Windows stuff performing how they do. I think we'll see Snapdragon having the ability to emulate enough of x86 to get by.

 

[marquimvfs]

So the new microcode kinda fixes somethings things, but also doesn't.
What a f***** mess.

Best quote of the analysis: "End user should not have to fix this”

Just saw the video. What a mess! Voltage regulation did worked as intended in the end, but both the feedback and feeding lines had to, basically, be misleaded to achieve the end results using Intel stock. Maybe it's a bug and things will be sorted in a future update, let's wait and see.

 

[winjer]

Now he is testing with a 13600K.