hardcastlemccormick
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iOS Gaming December 2015 | F2P is frightful, but the sales are so delightful
- Thread starter More_Badass
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Mario, how interested are devs in following this model: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1159766h
Sounds craaaaazy sleazy and makes me kinda glad I passed on the new Cut the Rope, but am I fooling myself thinking this isn't going to be the future?
Sounds craaaaazy sleazy and makes me kinda glad I passed on the new Cut the Rope, but am I fooling myself thinking this isn't going to be the future?
Yikes. I had no idea they were doing that.
Amazon has its whole Underground thing that pays devs based on how much they play, but adjusting IAPs based on analysis of an individual player is getting really scary.
What's interesting is that it takes the "whale" thing to a whole new level. Charging them even more knowing they'll pay more.
The more I hear about the way data is used, as Mario himself has told us about (not from his company's own use), the more it makes my stomach churn. And I know it's not just gaming...but Facebook, Google and the Internet in general.
They're good if you're playing on an iPad. I don't think I'd recommend playing on a phone. The interface is overwhelming (even on PC for that matter) so the bigger screen, the better.
I haven't really seen much buzz about this solution in particular.
At a philosophical level, Gondola seems like the formalization of what a lot of the big players are doing already anyway, given they are already doing heavy player segmentation and changing the game experience based on the demographics, behaviour, etc. So, its just opening up the technique to a broader potential audience of developers.
I can understand the appeal of it from a commercial perspective, especially if you have a large active user base and a single product where 3% here and 3% there makes a massive difference in revenues. But we don't really have any interest ourselves and I imagine most others won't either. We don't really do any targeting of individuals or "whale hunting" based on profiles outside of basic things like turning off ads if a user buys an IAP or continuing to throw the first time purchase offer at non payers for example. We and others try to focus on the bigger picture, trying to tune and improve the experience for the whole userbase where you can make potentially bigger impact.
A lot of developers might be tempted, but I suspect this would be a "dangerous" technique to apply if you had a highly active community. A casual audience in a single player game that didn't talk to each other would probably never notice. A "hardcore" community like you get around PvP games where fairness is considered paramount would revolt if news spread.
awp69 said:
That's pretty different as Amazon is paying in that instance, and its a flat fee per minute so developers are rewarded for making the game better for players to want to engage with it longer (though arguably they are also incented to lengthen any grind).
More_Badass
Member
Finally picked up FF Tactics (currently on sale for $7.99). My first Final Fantasy too. Still working my way through the tutorial, but I'm really surprised at how deep the mechanics are.
Its always interesting to hear/read your insights Mario, and I for one appreciate you taking the time to share them with us.
No problem. I'm genuinely interested in informing gamers about the drivers and the challenges of the business side of the industry, and happy to bring my own experience to the table to give perspective (and also interested to hear what gamers feel about particular issues). I realize that puts me on the "other side" of the occasional issue, but I appreciate that other forum goers here can have a civilized debate about these things.
Wait until you get to the first big battle. It's an eye opening experience as far as how complex it can be but also how incredibly demanding and difficult it is too.
I guess I got spoiled by games like Banner Saga that have a good amount of depth in terms of the combat, but not as overwhelming as FFT. I know FFT is considered the king of all turn based RPG tactical games. It just was too much for me, which I know is kind of sad at how wimpy it makes me look as a gamer.
Some day I will go back to it. Kind of annoyed that it's one of those Square games that has separate iPad and iPhone versions. I have the iPhone one and it scales OK but wish I had the iPad version.
Could have gotten it during this sale but wound up opting for Final Fantasy VI, which I hadn't played on any console prior to it and know some put it towards the top of FF games.
Yeah, Amazon's model doesn't bother me much from a player point of view, although I've heard it isn't really too hot for most devs in terms of returns.
That said, I know Amazon is probably doing more than just looking at that time based data for its own data mining purposes. Heck, the site itself is one huge targeted user experience based on what they know about you.
It's ironic that Cut the Rope Magic is part of the Underground program. Knowing what they are doing on the iOS and standard Android versions, I actually feel better playing the Amazon version.
Well, the whole thing for Amazon is it brings users into it's overarching ecosystem which is super high value for them, making the model work from their perspective. And they learn more about you (and all they need to know) in your interactions with their store rather than anything you might do in any app.
From a publishers perspective, their model is interesting, but they need to be driving 10x more downloads before we take it seriously.
Yep, thanks for sharing and taking the time Mario, as always. Really interesting read. Always happy we can have civilized debates and discussions here, too. It's great having someone 'on the other side' to hear from.
Yeah FFT is quite deep and kinda incredible. It's a really good example of old school design and just how complex games could be back on the original PlayStation. I first played it there so it feels pretty natural to me, but I imagine coming to it on iOS for the first time must be a really eye opening experience. It definitely was meant to be a couch+ TV experience first. I'm not sure how well that translates playing on iOS, though it is a really good version and the version on PSP was pretty good, too.
Matt Frost
Member
They added a lot of features from other genres into their core Ending formula expanding it. I dont know, but it feels way better now, more interesting having to deal with switches or flaming obstacles -with a Gunbrick feel to it-. And the coat of paint helps a lot too. Before was all about enemy patterns and now is feels more puzzling adventure. Feels like is Ending but vastly improved to me.
Beneath the Lighthouse also improved on the rotating platforming formula. Gunbrick on the puzzle platforming... everything Nitrome touches is gold to me. They arent happy if they dont add their own touch to their games and thats why I love them (and the fact that they dont play us with IAP)
I have an iPad! Which would you suggest. This is a dumb question in part because I played both a long ass time ago. I do not recall most of them other than I loved them. Also played on a PC obviously .
The Amazon thing is pretty weird, and it's kind of trying to appeal to those who would normally just hack a game. Jetpack Joyride for instance just lets you buy all the IAP for free, which means you can buy everything in the store straight away. As a developer that kind of breaks the desire to want to play the game - since you want to play to earn coins to get more stuff.
If I could just buy every thing in Crossy Road straight away, I'd probably have put 30 minutes into it and that's all. Instead I come back to get the coin presents to get new characters and play a bit each day. A winner in Amazon Underground is a game with amazing retention without the requirement of buying currency which can be rather difficult!
Alternatively, a completely separate SKU that removed the IAP screens and re balances the normal game more towards the player so that it's more like a mobile game pre-IAP, but asking for new SKUs for a new platform that's unproven is a hard sell.
That's a really loaded question so I'll give the response I found when researching the same question when I was choosing which to buy. I do have both the first BG and Icewind Dale so I think the comparison really does apply after playing them.
Basically, Baldur's Gate is more story driven and has more room for exploration while Icewind Dale is more hack n slash / combat driven and more linear.
I personally prefer Icewind Dale for the setting and, have to admit, that even though I like a good story the combat is fun.
infiniteloop
Member
Just an FYI, but the Guitar Hero Live iOS controller is $19.99 at Best Buy:
I believe you also would need the Full Digital game unlock which is currently $9.99.
You can play it on the device, through AirPlay or directly on the new Apple TV.
(in store pick up only now)
I believe you also would need the Full Digital game unlock which is currently $9.99.
You can play it on the device, through AirPlay or directly on the new Apple TV.
(in store pick up only now)
IIRC you don't need the full unlock as long as you have a guitar.
Damn. Would have snagged this but it's only available in stores and it's not available in my area.
infiniteloop
Member
well, there's this one:
Which looks like game + guitar.
And this one (which is the best buy one):
which looks like just the guitar.... so i don't know.
I ordered the best buy one though, so i'll see.
huh, i must've just got in in time.
Couple of good sales added. Agent A and Rogue Star are both $.99.
Rogue Star also just got a big update, which includes a new difficulty option for those that thought the game was too punishing. It also has more balancing overall as well as some new missions and other enhancements.
Rogue Star also just got a big update, which includes a new difficulty option for those that thought the game was too punishing. It also has more balancing overall as well as some new missions and other enhancements.
More_Badass
Member
As much as I am enjoying Rustbucket, I disagree. While Rustbucket certainly looks nicer and does have more elements like traps and such, Ending is still the better puzzle roguelike IMO. I think it's because the enemies in Rustbucket all have relatively similar movement aside from the few that have armor or jump. Enemies in Ending were more varied IMO
Also Ending had a greater element on tension because you only had a limited amount of moves, so each move had to be calculated and considered
As a whole, Rustbucket is the better game, definitely an improvement and will only get bigger with future content, but solely as a puzzle roguelike, Ending is the better one, due to its more varied enemies and every-move-counts nature.
Matt Frost
Member
Seems like I need to play Ending again... reinstalling now... played a bit... yes, the tension is there... and the enemies are more varied. Rust Bucket feels more like an adventure to me than this one. So agree on that.
The 32 GB Apple TV is on sale for $99 at Radio Shack.
Sold out online but might be able to find in store or price match at Best Buy.
https://www.radioshack.com/collections/apple-tv/products/apple-tv-32gb?variant=7546519173
Those that have the new one, are you happy with it? Aside from tvOS games can you cast any iOS game from your iPhone/iPad to it?
Even at $99, I really don't need it. But I'm tempted!
Sold out online but might be able to find in store or price match at Best Buy.
https://www.radioshack.com/collections/apple-tv/products/apple-tv-32gb?variant=7546519173
Those that have the new one, are you happy with it? Aside from tvOS games can you cast any iOS game from your iPhone/iPad to it?
Even at $99, I really don't need it. But I'm tempted!
infiniteloop
Member
As a streamer, it's good. It's got most all the video content you'd expect. Amazon is supposed to be coming soon.
The restrictions around controllers hold it back as a gaming system, imo.
However, there's been quite a lot of games (mostly iOS ports) released over the last couple of weeks. Most games are universal so if you've bought them previously on iOS, you can DL them for free.
You can mirror your iOS device to the Apple TV so you can play things that way too.
Would say it depends on what streaming services you use, what you have now and how deep into the Apple ecosystem you are.
As far as mirroring things, does it work with all games / apps or do they have to be AirPlay compatible?
I probably should pass. I have consoles and Blu-Ray players so I really don't need it for streaming. And $99 for something that still has a ways to go for gaming is kind of silly.
I'm sure it will come down in price eventually anyway.
gingerbeardman
Member
You can airplay at iOS level but it does introduce some lag. Enough to throw you off playing platformers for example.
More_Badass
Member
Think I'm going to redo the Why IOS Rocks thread. Maybe do it as an annual thing, the good games of 2015, then of 2016, etc. That would be a lot easier and better than doing a post with all the good games from the five-six months. And the main categorized OP was too packed to add any additional games, which kind of ruined the whole notion of having the OP divided into genres
Just got my new Iphone so I welcome this. Thanks in advance.
A friend of mine just released an iPhone game called Captain Cowboy that I think GAF might like. It's a bit of a cross between Boulder Dash and Exile, some of you might even get some Spelunky-vibes even though the game isn't procedurally generated - it does have a large open map with many possible routes though.
Some screenshots:
And a trailer for good measure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6v45exSOas
Get it on the app store!
Code:
Captain Cowboy is a puzzle adventure set in a giant asteroid space maze.
- Explore a huge handcrafted world
- Get lost in your quests for diamonds
- Get back on track with the handy automap
- Find the mysterious exit warp room
- Cross paths with friendly Snorkhogs and dangerous Gnurfs!
- Create avalanches of falling rocks in front of motion sensitive laser turrets
- Explore the underwater caverns with quite impressive water physics
- Visit the secret space station Discotek
- Simulated 8 bit char based videochip using 1008 volumetric parallaxed tiles on screen and a quirky CRT-shader
All in this little one handed portrait puzzle adventure featuring no in-app purchases, no advertising and extra continues are included in the price. And no tutorial! It's just you and the game. Go for it!Some screenshots:
And a trailer for good measure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6v45exSOas
Get it on the app store!
gingerbeardman
Member
FWIW it's priced at $2.99
Looks fun! Trailer was a 3x as long as I'd have liked, but nicely done.
Please do this. It is very helpful.
Didn't occur to me to bring up the price, sorry about that.
And it is a ton of fun, and I'm not just saying that because I know the guy who made it.
I just bought the PXN Speedy, which reviewed quite well over at Afterpad.
They and other reviewers seem to think that it is better than its direct competitors Madcatz CTRLi and Moga Rebel.
Sucks that the Steelseries Nimbus and Horipad Ultimate don't offer an Iphone clip because I would have preferred both (known manufacturer, stick position).
Will test the controller over the holidays and report back.
Matt Frost
Member
Looks sweet, I like it! Do your friend plan on adding GameCenter? I will buy it regardless but is good to know.
It sounds great. I don't like the stick placement and that I can't use AAA batteries though. How much was it?
Also, how's Chrono Trigger for iPhone?
I'll ask. Honestly though there's not a whole lot in the game that would be made better with GameCenter integration.
The cheapest I could find it in Germany was for 60, which is in the range of all other mFI controllers here. I prefer the Playstation style placement of sticks myself but the rechargeable battery is a big plus for me.
Unfortunately, there aren't any PS style controllers with a clip. The Madcatz CTRLi doesn't have a rechargeable battery and uses AAA batteries I think. Afterpad also reviewed it and they don't like the d-pad.
There is the new Gamevice for Iphone which has a Wii U style stick placement (which I personally think is horrible). It attached to the sides of the phone and makes it more like an handheld. The controller is quite expensive though, it goes for around 100 bucks. There will also be issues with the sound if you use earphones because the Gamevice uses its own DAC, which is low grade.
Seems like PXN Speedy might be the best bet.
By the way, I'm annoyed that I can't download Avengers Alliance 2 because it requires iOS 9. Umph.
I got a lot of other games today though:
- Downwell
- Space Invaders Infinite Gen
- Card Crawl
- Progress to 100
- Don't Starve: Pocket Edition
- Dashy Crash
- Bad Piggies
- Angry Birds: Space
- Cut the Rope: Magic
- Infinity Blade III
How do I know if a game supports a controller? Do the Final Fantasy games support it for instance?
By the way, I'm annoyed that I can't download Avengers Alliance 2 because it requires iOS 9. Umph.
I got a lot of other games today though:
- Downwell
- Space Invaders Infinite Gen
- Card Crawl
- Progress to 100
- Don't Starve: Pocket Edition
- Dashy Crash
- Bad Piggies
- Angry Birds: Space
- Cut the Rope: Magic
- Infinity Blade III
How do I know if a game supports a controller? Do the Final Fantasy games support it for instance?
Games usually list it in their description.
Here's a list from Afterpad, which would probably be the best resource:
https://mfigamelist.afterpad.com
Edit: Looks like at least some of the FF games have support.
infiniteloop
Member
.
I think it was $14.99 at launch, but $9.99 normally recently. I bit on it myself for $2.99, being in the Star Wars mood. Have it on console but will be nice to have on the go. Only decent SW game actually linked to the movies on iOS IMO.
A ton of games have gone on sale in what is probably going to be an Apple sponsored event. All of the following are $.99:
I Am Bread
Duck Tales Remastered
Tetrabot and Co.
Ski Safari 2
Alto's Adventure
Knightmare Tower
Tiny Guardians
Danmaku Unlimited 1 & 2
Hitman GO
Leo's Fortune
Duet
Goat Simulator
Rogue Star
Agent A (already had mentioned this but figured it was worth mentioning again)
Broken Sword 5
The Shadow Sun
Trick Shot
There are others but those are some of the more notable ones. Also of note is Door Kickers for $1.99.
I Am Bread
Duck Tales Remastered
Tetrabot and Co.
Ski Safari 2
Alto's Adventure
Knightmare Tower
Tiny Guardians
Danmaku Unlimited 1 & 2
Hitman GO
Leo's Fortune
Duet
Goat Simulator
Rogue Star
Agent A (already had mentioned this but figured it was worth mentioning again)
Broken Sword 5
The Shadow Sun
Trick Shot
There are others but those are some of the more notable ones. Also of note is Door Kickers for $1.99.
More_Badass
Member
New and improved Why IOS Rocks thread is up:
http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1160360
http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1160360