Support NeoGAF

[Dunky]

Yeap 4k30 is more demanding than 1080p60 but 1080p60 looks shit in 4k TVs.

Then you can have both options.

But also remember by going 4k you're going to have to turn down graphics settings compared to 1080p. You're going to lose a lot of graphic bells and whistles.

 

[ethomaz]

Then you can have both options.

But also remember by going 4k you're going to have to turn down graphics settings compared to 1080p. You're going to lose a lot of graphic bells and whistles.

But it will give you sharpness and clean IQ.
4k looks way better than 1080p... it has less aliasing too.

If you want a wow factor this generation a higher resolution is needed... I don't know if 4k exactly... maybe it works with 1800p or even 1440p but anything below that looks bad on 4k TV.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Of devs wants to make a 20fps game and that game is good I will be glad to play it.
Framerate will never be a defining factor to play or not play a good game for me.

I played that Zelda and it is one of the best gaming experience I have.
BTW Goldeneye 007 is up to 20fps too... and people (me included) have a blast playing it.

Edit - Sorry I forget Goldeneye can go low as 10fps in gameplay.

I also had no standards back there. Not anymore, "sadly". Ignorance is a bliss.

 

[Hunnybun]

There's an interesting correlation between people who can't tell 30fps from 60fps and people who can't distinguish facts from opinions.

 

[Dunky]

But it will give you sharpness and clean IQ.
4k looks way better than 1080p.

But then the push to have more more pixels is going to be at the expense of graphic bells and whistles.

You will lose graphic features and not so good-looking in Motion.

 

[ethomaz]

I also had no standards back there. Not anymore, "sadly". Ignorance is a bliss.

There is no ignorance... I know the beneficies of 60fps and I do like the response time it gives me in gaming but console hardware is about trade off and I'm happy playing 30fps since devs push the graphic bondary to next level.

 

[Dunky]

There's an interesting correlation between people who can't tell 30fps from 60fps and people who can't distinguish facts from opinions.

Personally I don't think they really understand and don't know what to look for.

I'm pretty confident if I could get them to sit with me in front of my TV I could show them the difference between 60 and 30 and they would notice straight away.

It's way too obvious I'm a little bit shocked by some of them

 

[ethomaz]

But then the push to have more more pixels is going to be at the expense of graphic bells and whistles.

You will lose graphic features and not so good-looking in Motion.

Let me give an example.

Returnal is all bells and whistles over resolution... and it looks really good in a 1080p TV but not on a 4k TV.
I could trade that 60fps anytime for let say something over 1440p.

 

[Dunky]

There is no ignorance... I know the beneficies of 60fps and I do like the response time it gives me in gaming but console hardware is about trade off and I'm happy playing 30fps since devs push the graphic bondary to next level.

But you said earlier it's all about response time which I disagree

To me if about clarity in motion which is massively important. You get this weird stutter shimmer effect at 30fps. I seriously find it totally horrible.

 

[ethomaz]

But you said earlier it's all about response time which I disagree

To me if about clarity in motion which is massively important. You get this weird stutter shimmer effect at 30fps. I seriously find it totally horrible.

That is exactly what I don't get... there is no weird stutter shimmer effect at 30fps.
Even the blurry in moving the camera people posted pics is only noticeable in specific frame screenshot or if you are really looking for it... if not you won't even realize it exists... I played the exactly same game, Uncharted 4, and never noticed any blur moving the camera... I even tested it today.

I notice blur graphics the exact moment I start the game when it is due lower reconstruction or some reconstruction tech... but that moving the camera thing is really hard to see.

 

[Hunnybun]

Personally I don't think they really understand and don't know what to look for.

I'm pretty confident if I could get them to sit with me in front of my TV I could show them the difference between 60 and 30 and they would notice straight away.

It's way too obvious I'm a little bit shocked by some of them

I'm not sure what it is. Maybe they're just lucky and literally can't tell the difference. Maybe they're full of shit.

I honestly don't know lol.

 

[Dunky]

Let me give an example.

Returnal is all bells and whistles over resolution... and it looks really good in a 1080p TV but not on a 4k TV.
I could trade that 60fps anytime for let say something over 1440p.

As long as whatever causes the bottleneck isn't the problem. Because you may lose frames and game little resolution.

 

[Dunky]

That is exactly what I don't get... there is no weird stutter shimmer effect at 30fps.

You must have a game where you can put it in 30 and 60 mode. Just move the camera left the right and look at the objects in the distance especially on the edges. The edges of all objects start to flicker because 30fps isn't enough frames to keep up with the movement.

I don't mean to be rude but I just don't think you understand. This is why you don't understand what we're on about

 

[Sid Of Bee]

Frame rate is part of graphical fidelity. Otherwise a game that consisted of a still rendered picture would win graphics awards every year.

 

[ethomaz]

You must have a game where you can put it in 30 and 60 mode. Just move the camera left the right and look at the objects in the distance especially on the edges. The edges of all objects start to flicker because 30fps isn't enough frames to keep up with the movement.

I don't mean to be rude but I just don't think you understand. This is why you don't understand what we're on about

I tried that and that makes the 30 vs 60fps evident... my eyes needs to adapt to the new framerate when I use the toggle.
Going on if I specifically focus in a object like you say I can see the blur... I never said it is not there... I believe it is... it just not noticeable when playing the game... I just can't see it when playing the games... in fact I never noticed it before with any of the example games.

Maybe my attention is with the character and what he is doing... even when moving the camera the focus is on the aim in the middle of the screen.

 

[Haggard]

Still a fact, sorry you don't like it.

That's some seriously cheap trolling....

 

[Gamer79]

I will say this:

I am a huge graphics whoremonger. With that said, sometimes 60fps is needed. For example:

I played the first 4 or so hours of dying light 2 in quality mode. The game looked pretty but was a choppy mess and the camera actually gave me motion sickness.

I then turned it to performance mode (60fps) and it feels like a totally new game. The game is much less choppy and the camera doesn't make me motion sick.

I believe there is a time for both. 30FPS can work in some cases while 60FPS in other cases is needed.

 

[Three]

I play fighting game on the regular and I can notice a difference of around 5-8 ms. There is a noticeable difference between a TV's inputlag of 10m vs 20ms.

I mean for people who play fighting games regularly/professionally that may be different but in general people don't even know what the input lag on their TV, controller, or ping is. This can be anywhere up to 300ms difference so 16ms is nothing in the grand scheme of things. When I play a 30fps game the last thing I think is "wow 16ms added input lag". My reaction time averages 200ms. If anything blaming input lag would be making excuses for me. You can test yours here:

Human Benchmark

humanbenchmark.com

16ms is nothing.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

Man I never saw any 30fps game turning blur when moving the camera.

What are you playing? lol

Displays with fixed pixel panels using Sample-and-hold will always lose some definition in movement, unless it has BFI (Black Frame Insertion), Temporal resolution is just as important as static resolution, having a game running in a higher fps will dramatically improve the clarity of the movement. 1800p at 60 to me is preferable to 4k30 especially for an action game like Horizon Zero Dawn.

 

[JeloSWE]

I mean for people who play fighting games regularly/professionally that may be different but in general people don't even know what the input lag on their TV, controller, or ping is. This can be anywhere up to 300ms difference so 16ms is nothing in the grand scheme of things. When I play a 30fps game the last thing I think is "wow 16ms added input lag". My reaction time averages 200ms. If anything blaming input lag would be making excuses for me. You can test yours here:

Human Benchmark

humanbenchmark.com

16ms is nothing.

16ms is literarily the difference between 30 and 60 fps and the felt responsiveness of the controls are huge. While reaction times is not a huge part of the equation here, going down to 30 you are doubling the input lag and that, is, very noticeable. It's much more of a feel, things just gets heavy and sluggish, you can try this by setting Windows desktop to 30, move the mouse around, try to navigate a web page or explorer and notice how easily you over or under shoot buttons to click on when aiming with the mouse.

While 16ms doesn't sound a lot, and it's miniscule in terms of our roughly 200ms of reaction times, it does makes a huge difference in the flow of things. Just to clarify, there are lots of things in fighting games that requires a precise input timing of 2-3 frames, a few things even require a timing of 1 frame at 60 fps. And this can be done almost consistently with lots of training. This means that 16ms can make a more than a little difference in practice.

 

[JimboJones]

If you can't run at 60fps it just means you're hardware lacks power.

 

[ozz ex machina]

I will say this:

I am a huge graphics whoremonger. With that said, sometimes 60fps is needed. For example:

I played the first 4 or so hours of dying light 2 in quality mode. The game looked pretty but was a choppy mess and the camera actually gave me motion sickness.

I then turned it to performance mode (60fps) and it feels like a totally new game. The game is much less choppy and the camera doesn't make me motion sick.

I believe there is a time for both. 30FPS can work in some cases while 60FPS in other cases is needed.

I will always take 60 over 30. I honestly can't think of a modern game where if I have the choice I'd go for 30. And I have a 4k OLED not like I'm on a 1080p monitor.

I guess some people don't play games for the mechanics/input/gameplay. But that will never be me.

 

[Rykan]

It's not an opinion, it's a fact. The vast majority of people won't notice the difference.

They absolutely can.
The fact that most of the most popular games played today are running at 60 fps proves this. The fact that developers continue to make 60 FPS the standard proves this. The fact that literally nobody on PC, where options have existed for longer, plays at 30 FPS also proves this. The idea that most people "won't notice the difference" is utterly laughable. Everyone can tell the difference. Most people just can't attribute it to framerate. Just because they can't describe where the difference is coming from doesn't mean they can't tell its there.

Because they won't, as simple as that. Almost all, it not all, new released games have performance and quality mode and that will become standard but 30fps will never cease to exist. Make your peace with this.

The seperate modes are nothing more than a temporary transition period. The vast majority of games either offer a 30-60 fps mode or a 60 - 120 fps mode. It's clear that 60 FPS is starting to become the standard and as more advanced hardware becomes the norm, including 120hz panels, it's inevitable that 30 FPS will be abandoned within the next few generations, and rightly so.

By the way, I have to say I'm loving the amount of people who are like "Well I played Zelda in 1998 at 20 fps and it was great". Yeah it was, because you were like 9 years old and this was the dawn of 3D graphics in video games. We've moved on from that.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Its already looks alot better than last gen at 60fps. Games like Demon Souls and Ratchet definitely look better than most games last gen consoles and they are 60fps.

But I think "next gen" PS6/Xbox5 etc will have 60fps and the graphical leap you expect. More developers will be use to the expectation that games are 60fps and the next gen consoles will probably have alot more power or "teraflops".

 

[BusierDonkey]

I'll play at 30 when the option to do otherwise isn't there. In anything else, 60 is the bare minimum I'll accept anymore and I'll take measures to hit 120+ when possible.

4K is great in screenshots but in-game 2K and the power it frees up is a much better option.

 

[Represent.]

We aren't even close to seeing what this generation is capable of and that's mostly due to 60fps.

It's too bad. Usually by this time, we'd have some jaw dropping games, but sadly if devs continue to push for 60fps, the games are just going to look like slightly better versions of PS4 games.

Yep. Ridiculous. God I hope these devs just ignore the frame rate nerds and stick to 30. What a shame it would be if 60 was the target for the entire gen.

 

[Rykan]

Yep. Ridiculous. God I hope these devs just ignore the frame rate nerds and stick to 30. What a shame it would be if 60 was the target for the entire gen.

Hah! Don't bet on it. That ship has sailed buddy. 60 FPS games are the norm now and there's no going back. Don't worry, Graphics obsessed casuals will most likely get to enjoy an optional 30 fps slideshow mode for at least this generation.

 

[StateofMajora]

I play fighting game on the regular and I can notice a difference of around 5-8 ms. There is a noticeable difference between a TV's inputlag of 10m vs 20ms.

5-8ms is my threshold as well.

 

[Three]

16ms is literarily the difference between 30 and 60 fps and the felt responsiveness of the controls are huge. While reaction times is not a huge part of the equation here, going down to 30 you are doubling the input lag and that, is, very noticeable. It's much more of a feel, things just gets heavy and sluggish, you can try this by setting Windows desktop to 30, move the mouse around, try to navigate a web page or explorer and notice how easily you over or under shoot buttons to click on when aiming with the mouse.

While 16ms doesn't sound a lot, and it's miniscule in terms of our roughly 200ms of reaction times, it does makes a huge difference in the flow of things. Just to clarify, there are lots of things in fighting games that requires a precise input timing of 2-3 frames, a few things even require a timing of 1 frame at 60 fps. And this can be done almost consistently with lots of training. This means that 16ms can make a more than a little difference in practice.

Yes I know 16ms is the difference between 30 and 60fps that's why I'm mentioning that value. I'm saying it is a miniscule difference though in my opinion especially when other sources of latency can add up to 100s of ms. In my opinion it's barely noticeable and exaggerated. Input timing for fighting games I get but if it were 30fps that would actually make things more easier, not harder. I'm saying most people wont notice or care about 16ms. Some even stream or play online with 50ms or more of input lag.

 

[Represent.]

Hah! Don't bet on it. That ship has sailed buddy. 60 FPS games are the norm now and there's no going back. Don't worry, Graphics obsessed casuals will most likely get to enjoy an optional 30 fps slideshow mode for at least this generation.

"Graphics obsessed casuals", as if obsessing over framerates is any better and makes you hardcore. Lol. It just makes you tasteless and boring.

And I guarantee you 60FPS is not the norm, it's only the norm now due to cross gen crap. You think GTA 6 will run at 60FPS?

Have you seen the UE5 demo? Yeah. The most mindblowing visuals the medium has ever seen.. 30FPS (actually less than)

30FPS will be the norm again as soon as next year, and especially towards the end of the gen . As it always has been. And should be.

Good riddance. Its only internet nerds who choose fRaMeRaTeS oVeR eVeRyThInG. Ridiculous.

 

[Rykan]

"Graphics obsessed casuals", as if obsessing over framerates is any better and makes you hardcore. Lol. It just makes you tasteless and boring.

And I guarantee you 60FPS is not the norm, it's only the norm now due to cross gen crap. You think GTA 6 will run at 60FPS?

Have you seen the UE5 demo? Yeah. The most mindblowing visuals the medium has ever seen.. 30FPS (actually less than)

30FPS will be the norm again as soon as next year, and especially towards the end of the gen . As it always has been. And should be.

Good riddance. Its only internet nerds who choose fRaMeRaTeS oVeR eVeRyThInG. Ridiculous.

hahaha some hilarious denial going on here. Only because of Cross gen ? Yeah that is why Demon's Souls and Ratchet & Clank have 60 fps modes, right?
GTA? You mean that series that is going to release yet another version of GTA V with the only noticeable upgrade being that it runs at 60 fps?

But by all means keep clinging on to a "Tech Demo" that's not an actual game. Meanwhile games that are actually meant to be played instead of just looked at will continue to offer 60 FPS modes. You can't guarantee shit as long as every game offers 60 fps modes.

Xbox will also continue this approach:

Phil Spencer wants Xbox Series X to focus on frame rate over resolution

The Xbox Series X can reach 8K resolution, but Spencer's not focusing on that

www.gamesradar.com

They went so far as to actually improve the framerate at a system level for previous gen games so that they can run at 60 fps or higher. You'd have to be daft to not see the writing on the wall: 30 FPS is over and done. There may be an exception here or there, but 60 FPS will be the standard

Glad that we're leaving this 30 fps garbage behind. Only casuals and graphic whores would sacrifice playability over graphics, and the industry is moving fast away from these kind of people.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Doubling the frame rate for any game that pushes the graphics does require some level of sacrifice, no matter how powerful the hardware is. The question is do you think the sacrifice in smoothness is worth the sacrifice in graphical fidelity?

The more powerful the hardware is the less relevant the sacrifices are.

 

[cartman414]

Of devs wants to make a 20fps game and that game is good I will be glad to play it.
Framerate will never be a defining factor to play or not play a good game for me.

I played that Zelda and it is one of the best gaming experience I have.
BTW Goldeneye 007 is up to 20fps too... and people (me included) have a blast playing it.

Edit - Sorry I forget Goldeneye can go low as 10fps in gameplay.

Framerate chug/drop hurts gameplay.

F-Zero X was 60 fps with low poly sprites. Some people criticized the latter, even though it played smooth as butter.

 

[Represent.]

hahaha some hilarious denial going on here. Only because of Cross gen ? Yeah that is why Demon's Souls and Ratchet & Clank have 60 fps modes, right?
GTA? You mean that series that is going to release yet another version of GTA V with the only noticeable upgrade being that it runs at 60 fps?

But by all means keep clinging on to a "Tech Demo" that's not an actual game. Meanwhile games that are actually meant to be played instead of just looked at will continue to offer 60 FPS modes. You can't guarantee shit as long as every game offers 60 fps modes.

Xbox will also continue this approach:

Phil Spencer wants Xbox Series X to focus on frame rate over resolution

The Xbox Series X can reach 8K resolution, but Spencer's not focusing on that

www.gamesradar.com

Glad that we're leaving this 30 fps garbage behind. Only casuals and graphic whores would sacrifice playability over graphics, and the industry is moving fast away from these kind of people.

Yes. Only because of cross gen. Demons Souls is a launch game of a remake of a PS3 game. Ratchet is an early gen game. Neither push the PS5 anywhere close to its limit. Its not rocket science as to why they had 60FPS modes.

And again, GTA5 is a PS3 game that sells like more than pussy. Of course it will get a 60fps patch, theres no harm in that.

Get back to me when GTA 6 is released at 60FPS and not 30. Get back to me when game trailers are captured and marketed in the 60fps performance mode and not the 30fps quality mode. Get back to me when higher end graphics stop being the major selling point of a new console. Get back to me when people go nuts over a UE5 Tech demo NOT BECAUSE of the fidelity, but because it looks like a PS4 game but runs at 60FPS. LMAO

And Lmao at quoting a corporate CEO who just says what nerds wanna hear. The reality of the matter is that shiny graphics are a bigger selling point than framerate, and graphics fidelity will always be more important to publishers than framerate because money talks.

Same goes for Hollywood.

Visual Effects matter, they are the equivalent of graphics in video games.

You frame nerds have no artistic dignity, nor soul. Gross. All you care about is how a game runs. The rest of us will enjoy groundbreaking visual achievements and seeing how far the medium can be pushed from a visual standpoint. You enjoy your numbers.

 

[Rykan]

Yes. Only because of cross gen. Demons Souls is a launch game of a remake of a PS3 game. Ratchet is an early gen game. Neither push the PS5 anywhere close to its limit. Its not rocket science as to why they had 60FPS modes.

And again, GTA5 is a PS3 game that sells like more than pussy. Of course it will get a 60fps patch, theres no harm in that.

Get back to me when GTA 6 is released at 60FPS and not 30. Get back to me when game trailers are captured and marketed in the 60fps performance mode and not the 30fps quality mode. Get back to me when higher end graphics stop being the major selling point of a new console. Get back to me when people go nuts over a UE5 Tech demo NOT BECAUSE of the fidelity, but because it looks like a PS4 game but runs at 60FPS. LMAO

And Lmao at quoting a corporate CEO who just says what nerds wanna hear. The reality of the matter is that shiny graphics are a bigger selling point than framerate, and graphics fidelity will always be more important to publishers than framerate because money talks.

Same goes for Hollywood.

Visual Effects matter, they are the equivalent of graphics in video games.

You frame nerds have no artistic dignity, nor soul. Gross. All you care about is how a game runs. The rest of us will enjoy groundbreaking visual achievements and seeing how far the medium can be pushed from a visual standpoint. You enjoy your numbers.

Hahahaah "GeT BaCk To Me WhEn HyPotHetiCal ScEnArIo plAyS oUt".

No Thanks, I'll stick to the actual observable facts instead of your silly fantasy that isn't based on anything but your desire to continue playing slideshows instead of games. Demon's Souls is just a launch game? Yeah, a launch game of which the developers literally said "I don't know why you'd want to play that slideshow" when refering to its "cinematic mode". Yea I'm sure they're gonna do 30 FPS only in their next release. Also everything is pointing towards GTA V not being a patch, but rather a new purchasable product. Which means people are going to be spending money JUST to play in 60 FPS.

The facts are right there: Both cross gen and current gen exclusives offer 60 FPS modes. The most played games on every.single.platform are 60 FPS games, even on Switch. Developers go out of their way to release Framerate patches for older games. TV's are adapting higher framerates. Monitors are making 120hz and higher the new standard. Even phones are moving to 90hz and up as a new standard. Every device is adapting to higher refreshrates and games consoles will be no different.

You're literally the only person still talking about that Tech Demo. Did games suddenly start running at 30 FPS after the Unreal 5 engine demo was released? ahh...Nope. Same with the Matrix Demo.

Lol, a "Corporate CEO who just says what the nerds want to hear". Actually, he also walks the walk. All of MS's published games have a 60 FPS or higher mode and older titles have had an update released to enable 60 FPS mode. MS went out of their way to be able to improve framerates at a system level for previous gen titles.

You want to talk about artistic dignity? Give me a break. The sole definining aspect of video games is its interactivity. It's what sets it apart from other mediums. You want developers to sacrifice an aspect of the game that damages the interactivity for the sake of slightly improved visuals. Graphic whores like you have no love for this medium, all you want is to look at pretty pictures. Go watch a CGI movie instead you clown.

But hey, you'll still get to enjoy "groundbreaking visual achievement" (Fuckin' LOL mate).....

....In the completely optional 30 FPS mode while those who prefer to actually play games instead of looking at them will be enjoying them at 60fps or higher.

 

[BigBooper]

You are rediculous talking about a tech demo. Tech demos are always about showing off the bells and whistles. What are they going to do, make a tech demo that shows it can run in 60 fps like all the hundreds of games that already run in 60 fps? Redonkulous.

 

[Pachi72]

I'll take slightly lower fidelity over the stuttering blurry panning around 30fps ANY DAY OF THE YEAR. WE cannot blame the game when the next generation consoles are underpowered.

 

[Rykan]

You are rediculous talking about a tech demo. Tech demos are always about showing off the bells and whistles. What are they going to do, make a tech demo that shows it can run in 60 fps like all the hundreds of games that already run in 60 fps? Redonkulous.

Please, man! That one single tech demo is the only thing he can cling on to! Don't take this away from him and crush his hopes and dreams.

 

[Represent.]

Hahahaah "GeT BaCk To Me WhEn HyPotHetiCal ScEnArIo plAyS oUt".

No Thanks, I'll stick to the actual observable facts instead of your silly fantasy that isn't based on anything but your desire to continue playing slideshows instead of games. Demon's Souls is just a launch game? Yeah, a launch game of which the developers literally said "I don't know why you'd want to play that slideshow" when refering to its "cinematic mode". Yea I'm sure they're gonna do 30 FPS only in their next release.

The facts are right there: Both cross gen and current gen exclusives offer 60 FPS modes. The most played games on every.single.platform are 60 FPS games, even on Switch. Developers go out of their way to release Framerate patches for older games. TV's are adapting higher framerates. Monitors are making 120hz and higher the new standard. Even phones are moving to 90hz and up as a new standard. Every device is adapting to higher refreshrates and games consoles will be no different.

You're literally the only person still talking about that Tech Demo. Did games suddenly start running at 30 FPS after the Unreal 5 engine demo was released? ahh...Nope. Same with the Matrix Demo.

Lol, a "Corporate CEO who just says what the nerds want to hear". Actually, he also walks the walk. All of MS's published games have a 60 FPS or higher mode and older titles have had an update released to enable 60 FPS mode. MS went out of their way to be able to improve framerates at a system level for previous gen titles.

You want to talk about artistic dignity? Give me a break. The sole definining aspect of video games is its interactivity. It's what sets it apart from other mediums. You want developers to sacrifice an aspect of the game that damages the interactivity for the sake of slightly improved visuals. Graphic whores like you have no love for this medium, all you want is to look at pretty pictures. Go watch a CGI movie instead you clown.

But hey, you'll still get to enjoy "groundbreaking visual achievement" (Fuckin' LOL mate).....

....In the completely optional 30 FPS mode while those who prefer to actually play games instead of looking at them will be enjoying them at 60fps or higher.

The only reality is that if you think 30FPS is a "slideshow", you are on crack. Plain as that.

30FPS is the ultimate balance between high visual fidelity and smooth gameplay. Its the perfect balance. Why do you think it's been so popular for literally decades?

TLOU 2 was a "slideshow" on release? Its the most polished and glitch free game possibly ever made. Spiderman? Bioshock? Miss me with that hyperbolic "slideshow" nonsense you spew. All of these games ran at 30fps upon release and were praised for their graphical prowess. None of them were slideshows unless you played them high. They only got 60fps updates years later.

The vast majority of the best games of all time have ran at 30fps upon release. Who gives a shit if GTA 5 got a 60fps update fucking 10 years after its release? Give me a break.

TVs, phones, can move to higher refreshrates all they want - Its practically meaningless if Hollywood sticks to 24FPS, which they will. Its just a marketing scheme until mediums take advantage of it, which isnt really happening - Especially not in Hollywood.

As the gen grows older, devs will get better with the hardware, and games will look better. As such, 60FPS will go away and then we will see 30FPS become the norm again. Then, when the PS6 comes out, we'll get patches for end-of-current gen games that run at 60FPS on the PS6.

Thats how it works. If you want constant 60FPS and above, build a PC.

You're getting an influx of 60fps right now because nothing is pushing the hardware. This is not fucking rocket science and is all facts.

I'm not the only one talking about that UE5 tech demo. I guarantee you developers are working on games with the intent to surpass that fidelity as we speak behind the scenes. Because the fidelity it reached is inspiring and exciting. No one is sitting there saying gOD dAmN LeTs sUrPasS tHaT fRaMeRAte

You want to talk about artistic dignity? Give me a break. The sole definining aspect of video games is its interactivity. It's what sets it apart from other mediums. You want developers to sacrifice an aspect of the game that damages the interactivity for the sake of slightly improved visuals. Graphic whores like you have no love for this medium, all you want is to look at pretty pictures. Go watch a CGI movie instead you clown.

30FPS does not damage the interactivity of a game unless you are on fucking meth. To normal people without issues, it's perfectly playable, and the added fidelity more than makes up for the lack of extra smoothness. Again, the reason 30fps is so popular is because it's the perfect balance between the 2. So yes, you lack artistic dignity because you only care about how smooth a game is. You couldn't give a shit about how it looks, the artistic values. The art design, the effects, newish technology like ray tracing, density of environments, weather effects, atmosphere etc, etc, etc. Visual fidelity.

Stick to your numbers.

 

[SirVoltus]

4k is killing... just provide 1440 with some upscaling technique and push graphic to the max.. so we can enjoy balance of 60 fps and nice graphic.

 

[Rykan]

The only reality is that if you think 30FPS is a "slideshow", you are on crack. Plain as that.

It's obviously a hyperbolic statement, But the 30 FPS severely damaging playability is an undeniable fact.

30FPS is the ultimate balance between high visual fidelity and smooth gameplay. Its the perfect balance. Why do you think it's been so popular for literally decades?

The ultimate Balance bwahahahaha what a joke mate. At no point has it been "The ultimate balance". It has always been a necessary compromise due to lacking hardware. A compromise that with todays hardware is no longer necessary nor is it being accepted as every single game introduces a 60 FPS mode. There is a reason that there is not a single PC gamer out there who has ever settled for "30 fps" if 60 FPS is an option and everything points towards console gamers doing the same.

TLOU 2 was a "slideshow" on release? Its the most polished and glitch free game possibly ever made. Spiderman? Bioshock? Miss me with that hyperbolic "slideshow" nonsense you spew. All of these games ran at 30fps upon release and were praised for their graphical prowess. None of them were slideshows unless you played them high. They only got 60fps updates years later.

The vast majority of the best games of all time have ran at 30fps upon release. Who gives a shit if GTA 5 got a 60fps update fucking 10 years after its release? Give me a break.

And all of those games play VASTLY better at 60 FPS which is why all of those games had developers go out of their way to enable a 60 FPS mode Who cares if GTA 5 gets a 60 fps update? The vast amount of people who will literally spend money just to play at 60 fps!

TVs, phones, can move to higher refreshrates all they want - Its practically meaningless if Hollywood sticks to 24FPS, which they will. Its just a marketing scheme until mediums take advantage of it, which isnt really happening - Especially not in Hollywood.

As the gen grows older, devs will get better with the hardware, and games will look better. As such, 60FPS will go away and then we will see 30FPS become the norm again. Then, when the PS6 comes out, we'll get patches for end-of-current gen games that run at 60FPS on the PS6.

Thats how it works. If you want constant 60FPS and above, build a PC.

You have absolutely zero evidence for this. Show me one developer who openly plans to return to a 30 FPS only experience further down the line. Meanwhile we have developers calling 30 FPS in their own game a "Slideshow" and platform holders confirming that 60 FPS will be the standard.

You're getting an influx of 60fps right now because nothing is pushing the hardware. This is not fucking rocket science and is all facts.

I'm not the only one talking about that UE5 tech demo. I guarantee you developers are working on games with the intent to surpass that fidelity as we speak behind the scenes. Because the fidelity it reached is inspiring and exciting. No one is sitting there saying gOD dAmN LeTs sUrPasS tHaT fRaMeRAte

You can't guarantee shit. You think developers are looking at a tech demo based on a movie and think they are going to plan their entire game around that? Hahaha what a joke. You know what developers are actually looking at? They are looking at the fact that the most popular and most played games on every single platform are all 60 FPS games. They are looking at the fact that their competition are all shipping with 60 FPS modes included.

30FPS does not damage the interactivity of a game unless you are on fucking meth. To normal people without issues, it's perfectly playable, and the added fidelity more than makes up for the lack of extra smoothness.

You literally contradict yourself here, you clown. If there is a lack of "Extra smoothness" then it damages the interactivity of the game. 30 FPS leads to increased input delay and requires vastly more motion blur to make up for it. It clearly isn't "perfectly playable". It is "Just playable". It's literally the lowest possible framerate that is considered playable in this day and age.

Again, the reason 30fps is so popular is because it's the perfect balance between the 2. So yes, you lack artistic dignity because you only care about how smooth a game is. You couldn't give a shit about how it looks, the artistic values. The art design, the effects, newish technology like ray tracing, density of environments, weather effects, atmosphere etc, etc, etc. Visual fidelity.

Stick to your numbers.

I care about the playability of the game. Input delay, response time and motion clarity are far more important than a slight bump in graphical fidelity that has no impact on the gameplay at all. If you're primarily interested in how a game looks, you're in the wrong industry. I suggest you stop playing games all together and start visiting your local cinema instead where you can gawk over pretty pictures instead of trying to stop the progression of this medium with your absolutele trash, poorly informed opinions on videogames which are, thankfully, among the minority and are currently being completely ignored by every developer out there.

Stick to movies, mate.

 

[Bernardougf]

My sons are playing Driveclub to test the new wheel and IT SUCKS!!! people really have to play driveclub again .... your memorys are failing you

And yeah.. 4k is killing the fidelity as many have said...

 

[V4skunk]

Alot of deluded people here.
The fact is that if you want bleeding edge graphics you sacrifice fps.
Look at how all pc games have graphical settings......

 

[RuneMan]

Yep. Ridiculous. God I hope these devs just ignore the frame rate nerds and stick to 30. What a shame it would be if 60 was the target for the entire gen.

You need to check you're eyes, because to me it seems that you're blind my good sir.
I can't fathom that people are rooting for 30FPS.... kinda unbelievable.

 

[rofif]

If you can`t see the difference you need an appointment with your eye doctor asap


EVERYBODY can see the difference betwen 30 and 60 fps the second they`ve exprienced/seen it once.

Now if they added motion blur to these animations…

Btw I experimented yesterday a bit. Uncharted 4 feels great at 30 fps. It's jarring for like 2 minutes. But god of war feels like trash at 30. Something is not ok

 

[JeloSWE]

Yes I know 16ms is the difference between 30 and 60fps that's why I'm mentioning that value. I'm saying it is a miniscule difference though in my opinion especially when other sources of latency can add up to 100s of ms. In my opinion it's barely noticeable and exaggerated. Input timing for fighting games I get but if it were 30fps that would actually make things more easier, not harder. I'm saying most people wont notice or care about 16ms. Some even stream or play online with 50ms or more of input lag.

While the base input lag of most games can be around 3-7 frames, lets round that to 80ms at 60fps, if the engine is rendering at 30 fps instead, that rendering input lag could potentially double as each frame now takes 32ms to render resulting in a theoretical lag of 160ms.

 

[Petopia]

Nope get a pc then get back to me.

 

[JeloSWE]

Now if they added motion blur to these animations…

Btw I experimented yesterday a bit. Uncharted 4 feels great at 30 fps. It's jarring for like 2 minutes. But god of war feels like trash at 30. Something is not ok

The problem with applied motion blur is that you can't make out details on things in motion. Imagine you sit in a car/train and look out at the street signs and trees whooshing by, they will appear blurry in real life as long as you are resting your eyes on the horizon, but you can at any time lock on to a sign or tree and track it with your eyes and thus make out what the street sign says or see the individual leaves in the tree. However, in a 30fps game where camera motion blur is being applied, those details are forcefully smeared out and you cant make out the details no matter how much you try and track them with your eyes. This is what motion clarity means, this is a big reason why we want to move to at least 60 fps and preferable 120+ when gaming. Point is, motion blur can look good if you keep your eyes fixed but it's terrible once you start tracking things with your eyes and panning the camera over the background.

 

[StateofMajora]

My sons are playing Driveclub to test the new wheel and IT SUCKS!!! people really have to play driveclub again .... your memorys are failing you

And yeah.. 4k is killing the fidelity as many have said...

Nope driveclub is great although I use a controller.

It's got pretty low input lag for an 30fps game. But of course I would LOVE an 4k60 update.

 

[Represent.]

It's obviously a hyperbolic statement, But the 30 FPS severely damaging playability is an undeniable fact.
Lmfao. No it isn't. I and most console only gamers have played 30fps games for our entire lives. And suddenly Im supposed to believe they are "damaging playability"? Give me what you're on. They play PERFECTLY fine.

The ultimate Balance bwahahahaha what a joke mate. At no point has it been "The ultimate balance". It has always been a necessary compromise due to lacking hardware. A compromise that with todays hardware is no longer necessary nor is it being accepted as every single game introduces a 60 FPS mode. There is a reason that there is not a single PC gamer out there who has ever settled for "30 fps" if 60 FPS is an option and everything points towards console gamers doing the same. I cant wait to bump this thread when TLOU 3, GOW 3 drop in 2027 and they run at 30fps but look fucking mindblowing. They will both run at 30fps and then you'll get a 60fps patch on the PS6. You're ignoring history. This is what will happen. It always happens. Its not happening right this second because launch and early gen games do not push hardware. Stop it.

And all of those games play VASTLY better at 60 FPS which is why all of those games had developers go out of their way to enable a 60 FPS mode Who cares if GTA 5 gets a 60 fps update? The vast amount of people who will literally spend money just to play at 60 fps!

They play a little smoother. Quit it with the hyperbole. vAsTly BeTtEr! - Lol. Games look better at 30fps and play a slightly smoother at 60fps. They go out of their way to add 60fps patches to old games once new hardware can handle it - Which Proves my point entirely. I'll say it again. They go out of their way to add 60fps patches to old games once new hardware can handle it. They are NOT going to sacrifice improved fidelity on end of gen games for the sake of framerate. Framerate will always come second. Until new hardware comes along that can handle new games at higher framerates, in a new generation. Why do you think all the best looking games at the end of each gen run at 30? Get real. They arent running at 60 until a gen later via patching. Because framerate comes second.

You have absolutely zero evidence for this. Show me one developer who openly plans to return to a 30 FPS only experience further down the line. Meanwhile we have developers calling 30 FPS in their own game a "Slideshow" and platform holders confirming that 60 FPS will be the standard.

All of them will. Except MP focused devs of course. But developers like Insomniac, GG, NAUGHTY DOG, SSM, CDProjekt, R* North.. Basically.. ALL of the big dogs in the industry, who actually give a shit about visual fidelity and focus on impressive looking single player games... Come the end of the gen, when they are maxing out the power of these consoles... Games wont be targeting 60fps. Because it will take too much of a toll on the visuals. This literally always happens. You are in denial of history. Lmao.

You can't guarantee shit. You think developers are looking at a tech demo based on a movie and think they are going to plan their entire game around that? Hahaha what a joke. You know what developers are actually looking at? They are looking at the fact that the most popular and most played games on every single platform are all 60 FPS games. They are looking at the fact that their competition are all shipping with 60 FPS modes included.

Again. 60FPS after being patched years later. Not at launch. Big difference. And yes, I do think they are looking at that demo and trying to base their fidelity targets around that. Thats the entire fucking point of the demo, to show whats possible. Really bro? And im the clown?

You literally contradict yourself here, you clown. If there is a lack of "Extra smoothness" then it damages the interactivity of the game. 30 FPS leads to increased input delay and requires vastly more motion blur to make up for it. It clearly isn't "perfectly playable". It is "Just playable". It's literally the lowest possible framerate that is considered playable in this day and age.

Who cares. It looks better. And plays fine. Get lost. 30fps is best of both worlds.

I care about the playability of the game. Input delay, response time and motion clarity are far more important than a slight bump in graphical fidelity that has no impact on the gameplay at all. If you're primarily interested in how a game looks, you're in the wrong industry. I suggest you stop playing games all together and start visiting your local cinema instead where you can gawk over pretty pictures instead of trying to stop the progression of this medium with your absolutele trash, poorly informed opinions on videogames which are, thankfully, among the minority and are currently being completely ignored by every developer out there.

Stick to movies, mate.

You care about something as insignificant and barely noticeable as input delay over art style, atmosphere and visual fidelity - and im the casual? I care about the heart and soul of the game. I care about whats on screen. I want more enemies on screen. I want more destructability. I want more mindblowing warzones with crazy shit all around me happening all at once. I want enemies to look so real they have me shook. I want to play THIS

in an interactive format. And believe me, its possible, but not if we continue to treat fidelity as if its some worthless aspect of gaming. Makes me sick how you think. You have no future vision. AT ALL.