Please elaborate. I never noticed anything in my times in FC2 and FC3.
Is anyone else concerned about Far Cry 4's villain? (LGBT issue + mild spoilers)
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Please elaborate. I never noticed anything in my times in FC2 and FC3.
Yep, and this is what people are mainly concerned about: Ubisoft (potentially) taking what is a fairly worn-out trope and using it without a hint of irony or any attempt to dig deeper.
I hope our worries are ill-founded and Pagan Min's appearance and mannerisms make sense in the context of him being a complex and interesting villain, but the quality of Ubisoft's writing generally doesn't inspire much confidence.
How about the fact that Jason Brody fits perfectly into other "Mighty Whitey" stories like Dances with Wolves and The Last Samurai? They tried to put a spin on it by pointing out how much of an asshole he was becoming, but it wound up being a pretty bizarre and listless attempt.
Let's talk about portrayal of minorities.
That is a portrayal of minorities. That they are helpless to do anything and need the "great white hope" to "save" them so to speak. That's pretty evident in FC3 if your paying attention. They have an army of dudes all over the island but somehow can't figure out how to take out of Hoyt until Jason comes along.
Edit: ^ Or Just read above.
snoopeasystreet
Member
I feel like this is the kind of pre-rebuttal we only really see in the video game industry, in particular toward LGBT or gender equality in games, where we assume the worse and then try to write a counter argument around it.
Ultimately we know very little about this character, such as what his identity is, how he's written or what lasting impact he has on the story. It's better to wait and see how the game turns out and then write form an opinion it than to argue over a hypothetical. I think it often leads to a lot people being growing tired of discussing the topic before the game even comes out and then, when it finally releases, people have already moved onto the next great issue in the industry.
From what I've seem of the game, the character looks cool but who knows where his story will end up, he could either be a great/poorly written gay/straight character, or he could get infected with some elixir that amps him the fuck out and culminates in a 15 minute boss fight, games are weird like that.
Ultimately we know very little about this character, such as what his identity is, how he's written or what lasting impact he has on the story. It's better to wait and see how the game turns out and then write form an opinion it than to argue over a hypothetical. I think it often leads to a lot people being growing tired of discussing the topic before the game even comes out and then, when it finally releases, people have already moved onto the next great issue in the industry.
From what I've seem of the game, the character looks cool but who knows where his story will end up, he could either be a great/poorly written gay/straight character, or he could get infected with some elixir that amps him the fuck out and culminates in a 15 minute boss fight, games are weird like that.
These stories are written that way to appeal to white, first world audiences. They have an easier time identifying with the protagonist in that case. I don't think it is overt "lol minorities are dumb, lets have a white guy save them" racism but more "we need a white guy to sell more copies of this game"
Alright?
The Rakyat, though mostly depicted as "good guys," are basically pawns. You start a few missions with them helping you, they come in to hold down the fort after you take over an outpost, you have to rescue some of them in one mission, but they generally lack agency and can't accomplish much unless Jason Brody is involved. He's even a better native than the natives as he upgrades his tattoo and gets involved in their pseudo-mystical rituals!
The pirates/bandits from the first portion of the game are exclusively non-white. For a good long while, Far Cry 3 is literally just a game where you shoot brown people. The generic bad guys even get "upgraded" to mostly American-accented mercenary goons later on, and the increasing prevalence of white outsiders among both heroes and villains as the story progresses just reinforces the lack of agency I mentioned before. Dennis is a black outsider to the islands and seems like a fairly interesting character at first, but he winds up getting sidelined for most of the game.
To be clear, I really like Far Cry 3 and am currently in the process of replaying it. But I can't pretend for one second that the game's racial politics aren't several kinds of fucked up.
Yes, through "we need a white guy," they end up with a story that literally displays "lol minorities are dumb." It's a choice that many writers choose to take without a single concern of how fucked up they're portraying minorities so that white boys can have their ridiculous power fantasies. This is indefensible trash, so please don't justify it to me. From that same article:
FYI, Tomb Raider 2013 did not have the same problems as Far Cry 3, so it's not impossible to have a white protagonist who goes adventuring into foreign territory without having him/her become the lord and saviour of the poor, dumb natives. Thoughtful vs thoughtless. It's not that hard.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
So controversy changed a gay White guy into a metrosexual Asian?
Ironically this just made the game slightly more diverse.
Yep. Like I've said before, it's modern day corporate colonialism.
Yes I agree, the outcome is a story that ends up very disparaging towards minorities. I think it is more like careless ignorance than overt racism. But it sill is an issue.
Also, if having a white protagonist does in fact help sales, then doesn't that say something about the audience as well?
Most of these are tied to gameplay mechanics.
I simply don't agree that there isn't something to be concerned about.
I mean when people of race or religious backgrounds are the "villians" in games, are we suddenly brainwashed of thinking that sort of mindset is evil?
Despite the higher taboo being that of those who are LGBT, I don't think people will hate him more because he is LGBT or will hate LGBT persons as a result.
I mean when people of race or religious backgrounds are the "villians" in games, are we suddenly brainwashed of thinking that sort of mindset is evil?
Despite the higher taboo being that of those who are LGBT, I don't think people will hate him more because he is LGBT or will hate LGBT persons as a result.
...And? I think that's actually part of the problem, since the way characters are depicted in relation to the gameplay leaves a lot of opportunities to make careless choices. Consider for a second that those all-brown pirates were already color-coded with red clothing! Same thing for the mercenaries having yellow gear.
°°ToMmY°°;115799942 said:
I totally got the same vibes, and that villain was fantastic.
what kind of post is this
Zoe
Member
There are straight guys into those things too.
One game = shitty track record.
Some nice hyperbole going around in this thread. No surprise really.
EdwardTeach
Member
It is nice that they are going for something different.
Resident_UA
Member
Like what?! Did I just miss ALL of it?
His eyes are much larger in the gameplay version, and he seems to have lost weight.
There's enough difference to wonder. Sure I get that it's CG and it's not going to be perfectly represented, but the first one has Patrick Stewart genes, and the gameplay one doesn't.
They look like two different people to me, honestly, whether it was changed or not.
This is some "I see a crowbar in the stars during the background of Wheatley(Portal)'s acceptance speech at the VGAs." shit right here.
They aren't two different people and they both looked Asian just about the same. Even the first few responses to that thread stated he looked of Asian descent.
Edit: Your "Patrick Stewart" genes argument that you repeat is laughable at best, if you want to use an argument don't use that.
The bolded is racism. And yeah, it does says a lot about game-playing audiences and the assessment is not good. Although devs themselves have exaggerated the problem and underestimated 1. the number of minorities buying their games, and 2. audience's overall willingness to buy a game with a less-traditional main character.
Yes, because I specifically meant this one game when I said shitty track record. It's a thread about Far Cry so I chose not to elaborate further. Or was I supposed to comb through Ubisoft's library and provide examples for your lazy personal satisfaction? Let's start and end here: the problems with Watch Dogs, the general lack of diversity with their AAA video game protagonists. There.
Polioliolio
Member
Lack of diversity. Take a look at AC, no lack of diversity there. Probably one of the most diverse franchises there is.
Also, yes, you said Far Cry has a shitty track record. When pressed about it you can only list FC3 (the only one that handled race issues poorly). Please tell me how FC2 didn't fit your perfect vision, because to me and many others, that handled things pretty damn well.
Can't make blanket statements about a whole franchise (saying it has a shitty track record when only one game does) and then say 'I chose not to elaborate further'. Come on, bud.
Thug Waffle
Member
Doesn't really bother me if he's gay or straight... at this point, he could just be a fashion geek. We'll see.
Well, I won't, because the writing in that reveal was on-the-nose pisswater and I don't want to play an entire game of that cliche shock value bullshit.
Well, I won't, because the writing in that reveal was on-the-nose pisswater and I don't want to play an entire game of that cliche shock value bullshit.
Well, yeah I agree there. Watch Dogs and Far Cry 3 could have been handled far, far better.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Gay villains are probably 10 times (maybe 100 times actually) more common in popular media than gay protagonists. And usually for all the wrong reasons. Hell, even gaming, isn't there like 3 gay villains in MGS? There is a gay villain in The Witcher 2 too.
And Assassin's creed, currently their biggest franchise, had a native american, a black women and an Arab. Leonardo da vinci was also shown as gay without making a big thing out of it.
I'm not sure if it's all that fair to say that ubisoft has a shitty track record
KillerIsJed
Member
I agree with the OP, wholeheartedly. But you already knew that.
Check out the diversity in Assassin's Creed Unity, where you can play as four white dudes in a time and era with only white people.
Check out the diversity in Assassin's Creed Unity, where you can play as four white dudes in a time and era with only white people.
cpp_is_king
Member
Despicable, hated villain in Far Cry 3, some combination of black/latino, met his end at the player's hands.
Despicable, hated villain in <insert game here>, <some distinguishable property here>, met his end at the player's hands.
I suppose you think that the only people who should be villains in games are those that have never been repressed in any way, shape, or form in the history of their existence.
So no Christians (or religious people of any kind for that matter), no females, almost no minorities whatsoever. That's kind of a limited demographic to choose from.
Guess they didn't get the memo that they should never do white people again.
Thug Waffle
Member
that's the only Assassin's Creed game that exists in the world so I'm gonna have to share your opinion on derp one
So despite having a great track record of accepting LGBT, racial diversity, and more, the fact that the four people looked to have been Caucasian makes it automatically a bad game with horrible social implications.
Tell me more.
plasmawave
Banned
Gay villains are against the law.
Yeah, just like how Nintendo is the most homophobic entity in the world for not having LGBT representation in Tomodatchi Life when they have always had strong LGBT and female representation in other games.
Garrett Hawke
Member
We must be talking about very different Nintendos. If there is good LGBT and female representation in Nintendo games, please tell me about it because I can't find that much.
scoobidoo112
Member
Oh god, can we please not do this again? Didn't end so well last time 
Let's just wait until we get some concrete videos on the villain before we discuss this...
Let's just wait until we get some concrete videos on the villain before we discuss this...
thats really silly, i agree... he does not look like LGBT at all... why is she stereotyping people based on their clothes?
Woo-Fu
Banned
I don't understand why this is a problem for fictional characters in games but isn't a problem for fictional characters in any other form of media.
I do find it hilarious that people are quibbling over whether or not the character is gay. Isn't the character potentially just as large an issue for people of Asian descent? Isn't this villain going to be a less than favorable representative of any group he can claim membership in?
I do find it hilarious that people are quibbling over whether or not the character is gay. Isn't the character potentially just as large an issue for people of Asian descent? Isn't this villain going to be a less than favorable representative of any group he can claim membership in?
RSLAEV
Member
If this is what being liberal is now I think I need to find a new label for my political beliefs.
Kittenwithbeer
Banned
People complaining have no merit to complain thus far. There's a difference between developers making a character overtly offensive in poor taste and people just disagreeing with what choice the developers went with. What's up with this industry and people feeling entitled to tell developers to change their vision? I don't go to a movie and get offended and demand that Hollywood change the script. I don't listen to a song and complain if the lyrics offend me. What is it with games that people think that developers should care about what people think?
I'm not targeting you at all, I'm just saying generally. We all have a voice, yes, but just because a group shouts the loudest doesn't make them anymore right.
But again, let's all play the game before breaking out the pitchforks.
biggersmaller
Banned
End of thread right here. Isn't it an indicator of progress that who a character fucks is irrelevant*? I mean, if the dude was flamboyantly gay - and due to that reason a wuss who shrieked at blood and couldn't handle a knife, then I could see a problem. However, this dude seems pretty badass to me.
*unless making sex identity relevant is the intent of the content creator. (edit)
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