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Is "inclusive" important to you in gaming?
- Thread starter Gamer79
- Start date
MiguelItUp
Member
It's not "important" to me, per se. But I personally think it's cool that it exists. As long as it's coming from a genuine place and not something forced, pander-y, etc.
*Waves*
Pandawan
Member
"Is "inclusive" important to you in gaming?"
I think the answers will vary depending on where you ask. Here I and 90% of people don't care, but soyboys on resetera will answer differently. The answer depends on how brainwashed the person you're asking has already been.
I think the answers will vary depending on where you ask. Here I and 90% of people don't care, but soyboys on resetera will answer differently. The answer depends on how brainwashed the person you're asking has already been.
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Woopah
Member
I think the strives made in making games more inclusive for people with disabilities is something commendable.
In terms of diversity, I'd say in the vast majority of cases it should have whatever characters the developers want. I don't think there should be restrictions on what types of people are allowed / not allowed in gaming (like basing it on writing quality).
So the industry as a whole should have some diversity, but that doesn't mean each individual game has to be diverse. You could have one game which is all American men and another that is all Indian women.
Whether it has a girlboss or a boyboss doesn't really matter to me.
In terms of diversity, I'd say in the vast majority of cases it should have whatever characters the developers want. I don't think there should be restrictions on what types of people are allowed / not allowed in gaming (like basing it on writing quality).
So the industry as a whole should have some diversity, but that doesn't mean each individual game has to be diverse. You could have one game which is all American men and another that is all Indian women.
Whether it has a girlboss or a boyboss doesn't really matter to me.
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You are implying here that people who aren't having the same world view than you are brainwashed. That is not okay for any kind of discussion.
Must a game force inclusion? Well obviously no. But the problem are people that have such a discussion style and cry for anything that doesn't fit their narrow, selfish views. Most of the time it is just the developers choice how they design characters. And sometimes games are just not designed for you.
I can accept that e.g. souls games are to hard for me. Or that I'm not ok with the metal gear 5 characters design. And that is totally fine.
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cash_longfellow
Member
Request you add a “fuck no” option to poll.
To add, it depends on the type of inclusion you are talking about. Forced inclusion of a certain type of person or type just because a dev is scared of backlash, then fuck no. However, the term “inclusion” is being used pretty loosely in this thread, but I’m assuming based on the OP, this is what you meant.
To add, it depends on the type of inclusion you are talking about. Forced inclusion of a certain type of person or type just because a dev is scared of backlash, then fuck no. However, the term “inclusion” is being used pretty loosely in this thread, but I’m assuming based on the OP, this is what you meant.
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Thats because Street Fighter (and Mortal Kombat and Tekken and Dead or Alive, etc) have 'natural' diversity because these are teams of people drawn from across the world specifically for their fighting skills. It's not like the story is that they are all from a remote amazonian tribe that just so happens to have a rainbow of people living there. So if a game design goal is to have a broad spectrum of ethnicities and genders, then make a setting that accommodates that, which is what Street Fighter did. The game needed diverse fighting styles for gameplay variety anyway and the most organic way to accomplish that was to have a global roster.
Contrast that with a game set in a remote village, ostensibly based on the scottish highlands, where childhood friends, all from families that have lived there for generations and are likely fairly inbred, go explore a nearby dungeon. You'd naturally expect all the characters to be pretty similar looking, speaking, and acting as they all come from a homogeneous background. Any exceptions would have to have explicit "otherness" explained in their backstory (dad left and came back with strange child in tow, was found orphaned in a raft along the shore, comes from a family known to travel or be 'different' and is treated differently because of it, etc). Yet we are being gaslit that casting diversity is 'natural and normal' and the goals of actor equity supersede story, narrative, world building, and audience engagement and if you complain about it you are a bigot.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
There are inclusive games that sell well. There are some that don’t. There are games that don’t bother with inclusion that sell well. There are some that don’t. LOL @ trying to pin it as either or.
Also, that other side might walk away with a fuller wallet but they also have headaches from prolonged bouts of crying because their games have women and minorities in them. Just look at that thread going right now about some Girls Scouts workshop and look at the responses, lol.
Pyral Phoenix
Member
I think it's weird that people choose the in your face approach instead of going the high road and telling a compelling story
Like, you want to do a game about racism for example, make an X-men game. You don't have to go the white, black, Asian... etc
Like, you want to do a game about racism for example, make an X-men game. You don't have to go the white, black, Asian... etc
Pandawan
Member
I am implying that anyone whose worldview is based on political ideas is brainwashed..
It doesn't matter if their worldview is the same or different from mine. I don't mind people having different worldviews. I mind when the imposition of some ideology becomes more important than the quality of the games, so that this ideology can BRAINWASH even more people to believe the ideas they want you to believe. Using games as mass media to do this and prioratizing this goal over authenticity of the story.
Any creativity must be sincere in order to evoke emotions in people.
Insincere creativity sucks.
And forced inclusivity kills sincerity.
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I used to don't care. But I like to not be embarrassed by some corny theatrical writing/acting or blatant sexism while i'm a playing a game in front of my wife, haha. It's more fun if she's engaged with what's happening on the screen as well (which is still rare). So i'm kinda glad games are at least more mature and inclusive in that sense, more then they used to be, that's for sure.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Speaking as a White guy from a Christian background, NO! I don't want games to mirror myself or my life and preferences, or do the exact opposite. I just want developers to make genuine choices and make the best games WITHOUT involving politics and activism. I don't want them catering to me and my kind, or any specific kind of people/agenda etc.
JUST MAKE GOOD GAMES!
JUST MAKE GOOD GAMES!
Astral Dog
Member
well, it depends about the overall creative and quality vision for the project in my opinion
I don't value inclusivity for inclusivity sake, but its clear many other people do and i understand their viewpoint
to me the main priority would be,are the characters fun? Is the game polished? Are the gameplay mechanics engaging? Is the character design appealing?
What i noticed, not only in videogames but overall entertainment industry, is this obsession over 'political correctness' censorship and ideology that has taken over, its got so bad were companies are at war with their own customers/fans, for the sake of this modern audience that sometimes doesn't even buy their products.
And i don't believe thats the right balance or approach, inclusion should be natural and not always forced,the message should be second to delivering an entertaining ,creative and polished product(wich in many cases,also leads to commercial success)
But thats the way they want it and certainly have the power to do so, i can only vote with my wallet as a customer and play the games i enjoy,fortunately there are still plenty
I don't value inclusivity for inclusivity sake, but its clear many other people do and i understand their viewpoint
to me the main priority would be,are the characters fun? Is the game polished? Are the gameplay mechanics engaging? Is the character design appealing?
What i noticed, not only in videogames but overall entertainment industry, is this obsession over 'political correctness' censorship and ideology that has taken over, its got so bad were companies are at war with their own customers/fans, for the sake of this modern audience that sometimes doesn't even buy their products.
And i don't believe thats the right balance or approach, inclusion should be natural and not always forced,the message should be second to delivering an entertaining ,creative and polished product(wich in many cases,also leads to commercial success)
But thats the way they want it and certainly have the power to do so, i can only vote with my wallet as a customer and play the games i enjoy,fortunately there are still plenty
Mortisfacio
Member
Not at all. I don't need a character that looks like me, I just need a good character, story/writing and gameplay and preferably one that doesn't feel out of place (black samurai, being the more recent example). I could play as any race of a world war 2 character and wouldn't really care, but don't put me as some strong independent woman in world war 2. It's not historically accurate.
In games like Overwatch, I don't even care that some characters are LGBT. People are LGBT, so cool, but do we need half the characters LGBT? There becomes a point it's just forced and quite apparent.
In games like Overwatch, I don't even care that some characters are LGBT. People are LGBT, so cool, but do we need half the characters LGBT? There becomes a point it's just forced and quite apparent.
JohnnyPhats
Member
Well. I’m a straight white guy. So inclusive means less of me lol.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
No.
I want a developer to make their game. Not to cater to peoples inclusive feelings.
I’m a brown guy that doesn’t have a problem playing as any colored character, or sex. Just don’t fucking pander with it.
I want a developer to make their game. Not to cater to peoples inclusive feelings.
I’m a brown guy that doesn’t have a problem playing as any colored character, or sex. Just don’t fucking pander with it.
Sleepwalker
Member
Yes, all games I buy must be inclusive of good gameplay and narrative.
If these things have no representation im out.
If these things have no representation im out.
thekillergreece
Member
I don't care. You can throw DEI, SBI and everything all you want but all I care about is; a good and fun game. That's about it.
Sw0pDiller
Banned
As of we didn’t allready knew about most of neogafs mindset.
Autistic_Pancake
Neo Member
If the game is "inclusive", I won't even pirate it, let alone pay for it.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
You knew I was a brown person that doesn’t want my color pandered to?
The Infectious Paradox
Member
I prefer exclusive, actually. For example, I want to see games with other cultures and backgrounds from me. Games like GOT and Mafia 3 were good examples. They had realistic implementation. But I dont unrealistic insertions. I.e. blue hairs in Battlefield V or a black samurai with rap in the background of a historical Japanese world.
And I'm not even one of the OMG WOKE people. But, even to the open minded types like myself, it just comes off as really tacky and forced. You can be represented in a game(s) but that doesn't always require inclusion in every aspect.
And I'm not even one of the OMG WOKE people. But, even to the open minded types like myself, it just comes off as really tacky and forced. You can be represented in a game(s) but that doesn't always require inclusion in every aspect.
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Bernardougf
Member
No it was not.. but they were successful in convincing me that it should be ... because I just dont care anymore to play as the 100th uglyfied gender confused gay girl boss ... not matter how good the game can be.
Thabass
Member
I don't know, this sounds like it's pretty important to you that the game doesn't include inclusion. If you really didn't care, you would still buy the game regardless if they talk about the game if inclusion is important or not.
For me, gameplay is king, first and foremost. I don't care if any games have inclusion or it doesn't, as long as the game looks fun to play, I'm down. I don't like when games force diversity for the sake of including it, but as long as the game is fun, I can overlook it for the most part.
Fatmanp
Member
I really dont give a ****. If the game is about a black female main character and its good i dont care. If its about a white male and bad, I dont care. As long as the aim is to make the best game and not tick a box thats all that matters. The simple fact that so many devs seem to talk about inclusion as a key selling point and then their game is bad is what bothers me. Equally the sheer amount of people who tag anything as woke is boring.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Could you give me examples of an "inclusive" game you won't buy nor "free 99" it? Like what games? Deathloop? Alan Wake 2? Mortal Kombat 1?
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
NickFire
Member
I am completely fine with devs designing games for a target audience that doesn’t include me. If they do that with an established franchise it may annoy me if I was invested enough, but if they don’t hide the changes before release (or taking money from people) there’s no harm and no foul.
But it is a two way street. If they don’t like the outcome they better start blaming the target audience who didn’t show up instead of the ones they didn’t target in the first place. And if they are publicly traded they better be telling investors up front that they aren’t targeting a very large audience if that’s the case.
Also, I would be day 1 viewer for any reality show where devs go and ask for 200 million to make a game while telling the investors they want to target a narrower audience than the existing fan base. I’ll even preorder that show.
sainraja
Member
Inclusivity for the sake of it, no. It has to make sense within the world the game designers are building. If it seems forced, then you are doing injustice to whatever "inclusivity" movement/trend/whatever you are trying to favor.
Game designers don't seem to know that it has to be balanced. Token inclusion is worse than not being included for those that care, IMO.
EDIT
Personally I don't care. I have never tried to see "myself" in a movie or game, based on how a character looks. I've always related to how a character is, how they act within that story. Of course, if the "inclusive" part is natural, not forced, meaning it makes sense within the world/story they are telling, then it just feels nice to see it.
But again, balance is something they all seem to forget and they try to take short cuts.
Game designers don't seem to know that it has to be balanced. Token inclusion is worse than not being included for those that care, IMO.
EDIT
Personally I don't care. I have never tried to see "myself" in a movie or game, based on how a character looks. I've always related to how a character is, how they act within that story. Of course, if the "inclusive" part is natural, not forced, meaning it makes sense within the world/story they are telling, then it just feels nice to see it.
But again, balance is something they all seem to forget and they try to take short cuts.
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digdug2
Member
100%. This is what happens when "the message" is put before the story and it honestly puts the integrity of the story at risk because they felt the need to shoehorn people in that wouldn't be a part of it otherwise.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Then that's not inclusion.
"Inclusion" implies a majority group making an intentional effort to include a minority group.
German game devs making german games featuring Germans isn't inclusion, as it's the same as white American devs making American games that feature mostly white americans. Do you see the point now?
When you use the term inclusion, you're exclusively referencing majority demographics including minority demographics.
So, on the wider point about regional devs making regional games, I'm glad we agree. But yeah, I guess I did mis understand your meaning when using the word inclusion, but only because you were misapplying the term.
BlitzerRadic
Member
Why does it have to make sense? Whatever happened to let devs make the game they want?
Also it's amusing that how the narrative nowadays is "it has to make sense in context of the game world" when fanservice has been a thing for decades. Like how did it make sense when females in games barely wore any type of protective clothing and males were in full body armor lol
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
How do you define “inclusive” in the context of playing a videogame?
sainraja
Member
Game designers can make whatever type of game they want, with whatever type of character they want. I wasn't saying they shouldn't so I am confused how you reached that conclusion from my post. I am simply speaking of when game designers do something "for the sake of it" or put another way "token inclusion", where a game designer is doing something because they want to be seen as "inclusive" and not because that was their original goal or what they wanted to do. When it's like that, it is very obvious. You completely missed my point.
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struggler_guts
Member
I care about variety, not inclusion
Kiya's Guard
Member
Of course I care about inclusion. The inclusion of white, tall, buffed, rugged and straight soldiers fighting for whatever they have to fight!