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Is it time to accept Revenge of the Sith as "one of the good" SW films? SPOILERS

Of course it isn't, it is a terrible movie. Now it's time for the real question.


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Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
Hmmm, I'm trying to think of what places are standout in it. Utapau I guess? Mustafar was kind of lame imo, but other than those and Coruscant what was there?

Ah but you do remember them by name :p

But seriously, as lame as it sounds I always love the idea of a "lava level" as the final stage, so the big goofy set piece there was great to me. Between Kashyyyk, Coruscant, Utapau and Mustafar the stark difference in backdrops kept things visually engaging every time.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It's better than TFA.

Lots of memorable scenes. Lots of good pay offs for what happens to all the characters. Anakin's fall was pulled off well enough but Sheev's turn was great. Also Obi-wan really shines in this film.

That younglin scene in the temple is brutal, even though the killing happens off screen, you know exactly what happens and when Padme and Obi-wan find out about it? Heart-wrenching.

It's not a great movie, but it gets to be considered good.
Sarcasm? Because everything you just said is really really wrong. Wtf is the good pay off of Padme dying a literally a broken heart? Or heart wrenching about Ewan McGregor trying not to laugh at talking about younglings? Or anything of the non-existent characterization of the jedi so that when they're all dying you really don't give a shit even though you should. The fact that you consider Sheev's plan to be a turn is straight up proof enough that I really shouldn't trust your judgement when it comes to this medium.

Ah but you do remember them by name :p

But seriously, as lame as it sounds I always love the idea of a "lava level" as the final stage, so the big goofy set piece there was great to me. Between Kashyyyk, Coruscant, Utapau and Mustafar the stark difference in backdrops kept things visually engaging every time.
Good cinematography keeps things visually engaging, there are a variety of environments, but they look quite terrible and are aging terribly
dUDqIVU.jpg

ZnSfMwr.jpg
 
Remake the prequels as a Netflix animated series, using Clone Wars as its framing device. Maintain the basic framework of the theatrical prequels and rework the botched elements such as the Anakin/Padme relationship. If I were Dave Filoni, I would borrow the formulas used by the Westworld HBO series and the story mode from the 2011 Mortal Kombat game. And with the longer runtime format afforded to TV as opposed to film, you could provide more meatier backstory on plot lines from the films that would have benefited from better pacing and elaboration. Darth Maul being killed off at the end of TPM made him into an afterthought. But imagine a Darth Maul at the end of a 13 episode season. You could certainly give him more to do so that by the time he's killed off at the end of Season One: The Phantom Menace, his death means something. The same thing for Jango Fett. He didn't do much in AOTC, but what if AOTC were redone in the Netflix format? Imagine the possibilities. Instead of pairing him up Zam Wessel, have him work in tandem with Aurra Sing, setting things up for young Boba Fett's exploits in The Clone Wars.

Bojack Horseman proved that a serialized animated series can enjoy the same level of success and fan loyalty as popular live action television shows. Remaking the prequels on Netflix would be a much cheaper alternative to remaking them as films. And it would probably be less controversial as well. You could have both the theatrical prequels and the Netflix prequels existing alongside each other, with neither necessarily invalidating one another.

I guess the point I'm making is that it's nearly 12 years removed from ROTS and time clearly hasn't healed all the wounds. If Rogue One and other prequel related anthology films going forward turns out decent, it's only going to highlight their shortcomings even more.
 
Hmmm, I'm trying to think of what places are standout in it. Utapau I guess? Mustafar was kind of lame imo, but other than those and Coruscant what was there?

Loved Utapau. The sinkhole planet idea was great.

I went to Celebration III back in 2005 just before the film released and John Knoll, on this magic laptop full of god knows what, shows us an extended but unfinished chase sequence between Kenobi and Grievous; a much shortened version was in the movie but this went on for several minutes. It had Kenobi on the boga (the lizard creature) and Grievous on his cycle thing chasing one another up the side of the sinkhole and to the actual planetary surface.

At one point Grievous fires at these large windmills causing the blades of them to fly down in front of the boga Kenobi is riding, with the creature dodging them as they stabbed into the ground around it. It was fucking awesome and to this day I'm upset it was all mostly cut.
 

Tagyhag

Member
The movie had 3 good things going for it.

1. 90% of the final fight with Anakin and Obi-Wan
2. The soundtrack
3. The shot of Darth Vader being injected with his mask.

Everything else was shit. So no, overall, it's not one of the good Star Wars films.
 

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
It's better than TFA.

nJi26My.gif



No, no it really isn't. While it may be the best of the prequels (and honestly TPM might even be a better film), it is still a bad movie and far, FAR behind any non-prequel Star Wars movie ever made.
 
Guys check out this totes believable romance that the entire conflict of Anakin's character centers on.
bRCuqS6.gif


Such chemistry, such believability, George outdid himself, prequels were the best ever. He's a real force i'll you what. Do this with the girl you like, do it, literally stare at her tits and then creepily slide your hand up her back while she internally screams. I swear you'll have the best romance and you can talk about literally nothing else but how much you like each other.

NxWREL.gif

My eyes are up HERE, Anakin.
 
The movie had 3 good things going for it.

1. 90% of the final fight with Anakin and Obi-Wan
2. The soundtrack
3. The shot of Darth Vader being injected with his mask.

4. Grievous (fuck you he's awesome)
5. First 25 minutes
6. Anakin killing Gunray and his cronies
7. Order 66 sequence
8. Windu's pretty hardcore death
9. Last few scenes, Padme's funeral, closing shots
10. Bail Organa is boss
11. Yoda and Palpatine fight

Can't do this with TPM!
 

Magnus

Member
What's the worst line from REVENGE OF THE SITH?

"Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords are our specialty." -Obi-Wan

"My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count." | "Good. Twice the pride, double the fall." -Anakin and Count Dooku

"Wait a minute, how did this happen, we're smarter than this!" -Obi-Wan

"You owe me one, and for not saving your skin for the tenth time." | "Ninth time. That business on Cato Neimodia doesn't- doesn't count." -Anakin and Obi-Wan

"You are so... beautiful." | "It's only because I'm so in love." | "No, it's because I'm so in love with you." | "So love has blinded you?" | "Well, that's not exactly what I meant." | "But it's probably true." -Anakin and Padmé

"Have you ever considered that we may be on the wrong side? What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists? And the Republic has become the very evil we've been fighting to destroy?" -Padmé

"Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo... so long ago when there was nothing but our love. No politics, no plotting, no war." -Padmé

"No! No! No! YOU WILL DIE!" -Supreme Chancellor Palpatine

"Killed not by clones, this Padawan, but by a lightsaber he was." -Yoda

"I have seen... a security hologram... of him... killing younglings." -Obi-Wan

"I don't know you any more. Anakin! You're breaking my heart! You're going down a path I can't follow!" -Padmé

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes." -Obi-Wan

"I have waited a long time for this moment, my little green friend." -Emperor Palpatine

"Not if anything to say about it I have." -Yoda

"From my point of view, it is the Jedi who are evil." -Anakin

Christ. These are brutal.
 
I'd need some kind of solid evidence that TPM is better but I doubt I'll get it.
I'll defend it again. TPM is really, really bad but because of the lighter tone it is much easier to have fun with. The writing is just as bad, but it doesn't think it's this serious epic Shakespearean drama and it has less of the jarring tonal differences.

Which isn't to say it isn't bad. Because it's really bad. But if I am going to rewatch a prequel, it'll probably be this one.
 
Palpatine's lines and Ian's deliveries are hammy as fuck but I loved it, he'd waited all this time to execute his plans and was overjoyed to the point where he just let loose with the overacting. I wouldn't have it any other way, him having to play the Senate and deal with the Jedi bullshit for more than a decade must have been brutally obnoxious and seeing him winning and going batshit with his acting and dialogue felt satisfying.

I'll defend it again. TPM is really, really bad but because of the lighter tone it is much easier to have fun with. The writing is just as bad, but it doesn't think it's this serious epic Shakespearean drama and it has less of the jarring tonal differences.

To each his own! I don't hate TPM but I just think ROTS moves better, has a better story, less frustrating dialogue and acting but I guess that's subjective as ROTS also has lame dialogue and acting. Just for me to a lesser degree.
 

Cat Party

Member
I'd need some kind of solid evidence that TPM is better but I doubt I'll get it.

Everyone actually gave a damn in TPM. Bad directing tanked a lot of scenes, but the actors tried to deliver something good. The story had intrigue and we got to see a planet unlike anything we had seen in SW before. A truly great villain and an epic duel. None of the other prequels had any of this.

Jar Jar was horrible, but he was not the entire movie.
 
Everyone actually gave a damn in TPM. Bad directing tanked a lot of scenes, but the actors tried to deliver something good. The story had intrigue and we got to see a planet unlike anything we had seen in SW before. A truly great villain and an epic duel. None of the other prequels had any of this.

I don't agree. I know the actors and Lucas tried harder on 3. Portman was the only real stinker to me across the entire trilogy. TPM had Neeson though which obviously helps a great deal.

And for what it's worth, I don't even give a shit about Jar Jar, lol. As far as great villains I'm not sure what you mean. It had the same villain and with his plan being fulfilled.
 
The other thing is that TPM looks better because the existing CGI tech prevented Lucas from going too hard in on it yet, so it is visually much more appealing to me than the other two. It also has the most new-looking stuff in the prequels, since there aren't Stormtroopers or vehicles obviously designed to be predecessors to OT ships/vehicles. One thing I'll say about TFA is that it knew I wanted a goddamned X-Wing, not a ship that looks and functions like an X-Wing but isn't as cool.
 
The other thing is that TPM looks better because the existing CGI tech prevented Lucas from going too hard in on it yet, so it is visually much more appealing to me than the other two. It also has the most new-looking stuff in the prequels, since there aren't Stormtroopers or vehicles obviously designed to be predecessors to OT ships/vehicles. One thing I'll say about TFA is that it knew I wanted a goddamned X-Wing, not a ship that looks and functions like an X-Wing but isn't as cool.

I thought TPM had way worse CGI especially the droid and Gungan battle. Shit looked like total ass. 3 has a lot of CG but I thought most of it looked fine.
 
I thought TPM had way worse CGI especially the droid and Gungan battle. Shit looked like total ass. 3 has a lot of CG but I thought most of it looked fine.
Maybe it's fuzzy memories but I remember it blending in the practical effects with the CGI better. I remember the stuff on Tatooine and the Naboo city both looking good, and Naboo especially is aesthetically more interesting than the other prequel stuff.
 
Maybe it's fuzzy memories but I remember it blending in the practical effects with the CGI better. I remember the stuff on Tatooine and the Naboo city both looking good, and Naboo especially is aesthetically more interesting than the other prequel stuff.

Some of it for sure. There was more practical stuff that looked good, but there's more sore spots for me visually. I still mostly respect the work that went into it, even the not so good stuff. Keep in mind I'm not a hard core CGI complainer, but I look at the overall thing and I think ROTS has the more impressive effects work.
 

DopeToast

Banned
It's not even my favorite prequel, which is The Phantom Menace and is also a bad movie. 2 and 3 could have course-corrected after some of the mistakes in 1 and fixed the prequel trilogy, but 2 and 3 only got worse.

I suppose more than the other two movies you can point to cool moments or action scenes as being memorable, but they don't fix what is a mostly boring, difficult to follow, and visually weird/awkward movie.

It's a shame more than anything, because I love the idea of Vader's buildup being told well and being a meaningful story, but it's all so disappointing.

And as always, if you like it and get some enjoyment out of it, we can agree to disagree.
 

mrkgoo

Member
Some of it for sure. There was more practical stuff that looked good, but there's more sore spots for me visually. I still mostly respect the work that went into it, even the not so good stuff. Keep in mind I'm not a hard core CGI complainer, but I look at the overall thing and I think ROTS has the more impressive effects work.

Of course it does, it's like 6 years after TPM.
 

Davide

Member
"Have you ever considered that we may be on the wrong side? What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists? And the Republic has become the very evil we've been fighting to destroy?" -Padmé

This one's not so bad, I heard a Republican say that the other day.
 

Nairume

Banned
It's not even my favorite prequel, which is The Phantom Menace and is also a bad movie. 2 and 3 could have course-corrected after some of the mistakes in 1 and fixed the prequel trilogy, but 2 and 3 only got worse.
I think that's what maybe makes RotS the most frustrating of the three.

Menace and Clones ultimately never mattered in the long run. Sith was the one that was supposed to bring things together and be the payoff for the whole thing, and yet it dropped the ball most out of all. Even if it's technically better than the first two prequels on almost every level, it's probably the biggest disappointment.
 

SandTorso

Member
Nah, it's laughably bad. 4,5, and 6 are still the only good ones in my book. 7 was passable and I can see why people like it, but it tried too hard to be a reboot of 4 for me to really like it.

As for 3, the dialog was boring, the action looks like crap, and it just tries so hard to be cool and dark and it just falls so short for me.

I might rather watch it than 1 or 2 though? I'm not even sure about that.
 

TheStruggler

Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
I love how having the high ground didn't mean shit when Obi Wan was placed in a similar position by Darth Maul years earlier.

I think that has to do with sith's being cocky, Obi-wan knew he could potentially die using that maneuver and bet it on all or nothing, he knew how to counter it from Mauls failures and Anakin was cocky believing his absolute power would bail him out of it.
 

Mega

Banned
I think you're being facetious but I'll answer seriously anyway. Comments in line:

It's been over a decade since release and hopefully the seething anger and disappointment towards the prequels has died down a bit and people can view Revenge of the Sith separately from the other two disappointing prequel films.
It wasn't a heat of the moment thing. This movie continues to be awful years later. My enjoyment of it actually diminished with repeat viewings when it was new.


I'm not a fan of Phantom Menace personally (I think it's probably the worst SW movie), but I do enjoy Attack of the Clones as a flawed film even if it has some major issues. However Revenge of the Sith is a legit fantastic movie imo and deserves to be considered one of the good Star Wars films (my personal top 3 are Force Awakens, Empire Strikes Back and Revenge of the Sith).
I like TFA, really, but how can it be consider one of the good ones and not ANH when TFA basically apes it throughout? RotS has enormous problems that keep it from being one of the best. If you haven't seen Plinkett's review, then go ahead. I only saw it this year and perfectly encapsulated my problems with it.

-ROTS CG has aged fairly well, at least after revisiting the blu-ray (maybe on a theater screen it would look worse)
The CG wasn't great for starters, it's excessive and it has aged poorly.

-It's certified fresh on rottentomatoes (I still think the score would be higher if it wasn't saddled with being attached to the lower quality Episode 1 & 2
Bad movies and movies that aged horribly have been rated fresh before too.

-It has one of the best acting performances of the series, with Ewan Mcgregor's Obi-Wan. I honestly think he did a better job with the role than Alec Guinness (who always looked a bit bored).
Portman, McGregor and Jackson were wasted in these movies and came out looking really bad despite their acting chops. Hayden was a decent young actor and stood no chance against the awful directing and script.

-All of the major battles are fun/clever/intense and some of the best in the SW films: the opening space battle, Obi-Wan vs. General Grievous, Yoda vs. Sheev, Anakin vs. Obi-Wan.
the opening space battle was neat for 15 seconds before devolving into corny dialogue and slapstick humor with R2D2. What a shitshow. Clones vs droids blowing each other up in CG... boring. Grievous fight was a messy greenscreen pile of junk, the Anakin/Obi fight was too long and over the top "epic" for the sake of being over the top epic. The lightsaber circus acrobatics are loathsome.

-Visually, I think it's one of the better looking SW films, even with its reliance on CG. The art direction is nice and everything is framed well (the previous 2 films looked a bit tacky at times and had poor cinematography, even ANH looks a bit bland).
They are most certainly not framed or directed well. To borrow from Plinkett's: lots of sitting on couches, shot/reverse shot, everyone walking slowly and linearly from point A to B because it's all green screen stages. It's shot like a crappy soap opera. The art direction is more goofy CG aliens and fake looking backdrops that don't feel like they are THERE.

-I really love the creature and droid design in ROTS, my fave has to be that lizard thing Obi-Wan rides on during his battle with Grievous (Grievous himself is a fantastic design, when he pulls out those 4 light sabers, whew).
Really? That dumb lizard? Grievous is terrible.

-The story actually flows and makes sense this time around (compared to the other prequels), and is faster paced than A New Hope and less goofy than Return of the Jedi's awful second half so I'd place ROTS higher than both of those, I find it much easier to revisit.
Yeah besides the huge plot holes and the ridiculous contrivance of how Anakin fell to the Dark side, yeah it all makes sense. How about the god awful love "story" between Anakin and Paste? Or the nonexistent teacher-student friendship between Anakin and Obi? Could Palpatine have been any more obvious? Nothing in this shit works, we're told it does, but it doesn't.

-Order 66 is such a cool scene. The films has a lot of really cool scenes. Darth Vader & Palpatine at the end is another one.
No. "Execute order 66" is cheese of the highest order.

-The darker tone works in the film's favor, though I wish they'd gone a bit further in really selling Anakin's turn to the dark side (Padme's fate was pretty lame though).
Kidding? Nothing about his turn to the Dark was convincing. Oh wow he's killing kids, he's sooo bad. Being "dark" isn't a mark of quality.

I didn't grow up with these movies, I only caught them all once the blu-rays came out so I'm not some lifelong diehard.
Neither am I. I caught onto SW very late in my teens. Its not childhood nostalgia that makes me dislike the prequel trilogy.

It would be interesting to see if lifelong fans and more recent fans have different opinions on ROTS vs. the rest of the movies. What do you think? ROTS is a good movie, AND a good Star Wars film, right?
No, it is not. Horrible script, directing, CG, acting, actor chemistry, pacing, framing, action scenes and so on.

I give the movie a thumbs up.
I give it a middle finger.

9jvTL5g.gif
 
I use to really like ROTS. I convinced myself it was the best we could possibly get from more Star Wars films---"the best" being bad still. Then The Force Awakens came out and showed me more Star Wars movies can actually be good things, and not giant pieces of shit.

What's the worst line from REVENGE OF THE SITH?

"Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords are our specialty." -Obi-Wan

"My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count." | "Good. Twice the pride, double the fall." -Anakin and Count Dooku

"Wait a minute, how did this happen, we're smarter than this!" -Obi-Wan

"You owe me one, and for not saving your skin for the tenth time." | "Ninth time. That business on Cato Neimodia doesn't- doesn't count." -Anakin and Obi-Wan

"You are so... beautiful." | "It's only because I'm so in love." | "No, it's because I'm so in love with you." | "So love has blinded you?" | "Well, that's not exactly what I meant." | "But it's probably true." -Anakin and Padmé

"Have you ever considered that we may be on the wrong side? What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists? And the Republic has become the very evil we've been fighting to destroy?" -Padmé

"Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo... so long ago when there was nothing but our love. No politics, no plotting, no war." -Padmé

"No! No! No! YOU WILL DIE!" -Supreme Chancellor Palpatine

"Killed not by clones, this Padawan, but by a lightsaber he was." -Yoda

"I have seen... a security hologram... of him... killing younglings." -Obi-Wan

"I don't know you any more. Anakin! You're breaking my heart! You're going down a path I can't follow!" -Padmé

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes." -Obi-Wan

"I have waited a long time for this moment, my little green friend." -Emperor Palpatine

"Not if anything to say about it I have." -Yoda

"From my point of view, it is the Jedi who are evil." -Anakin
Some of these are awful. Some of these are...nothing. Neither great nor bad. Might be a little picky.
 
The only explanation I have of Padme falling in love with Anakin is Jedi mind tricks, which makes the PT movies more creepy and cringey than they already are.
 

watershed

Banned
It's an awful film. Poorly written, directed, acted, edited, and more. It has some good moments but it is an overall bad movie. There are major issues in ROTS that you simply don't notice in competently made films. And the cg is awful. Not a single cg clone trooper looks like they're there and Lucas was proud of the fact that they're all cg.
 
The only explanation I have of Padme falling in love with Anakin is Jedi mind tricks, which makes the PT movies more creepy and cringey than they already are.

I thought it was their past connection, Padme being with Anakin as he was being her bodyguard, her going through the events on Tatooine with him losing his mom, her admitting during that shitty fireplace scene "regardless of the way we feel about each other" and so on. Obviously could have been written better, but I got it. Basically her political life and then going through this stuff with him on a human and personal level. He helped her break out of a shell so to speak.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
OP, I appreciate what you're trying to do but I've come to realize that there's no way of convincing GAF that ROTS is "Good".

Which sucks, because it's not really that bad of a film. Saw it about 5 times when it came out and loved the special effects and seeing Vader again after so many years blew me away.

Hell, I'd put it over TFA in my ranking.
Wow, they included the most popular and iconic Star Wars character in a movie about the most popular and iconic Star Wars character. That's amazing.

Did you see the part where he stood there and yelled 'no'?
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
"The dark side surrounds the Chancellor"

"A SITH LORD?!!!"

It's a stupid movie that does nothing right except the soundtrack.
 

Avixph

Member
Remake the prequels as a Netflix animated series, using Clone Wars as its framing device. Maintain the basic framework of the theatrical prequels and rework the botched elements such as the Anakin/Padme relationship. If I were Dave Filoni, I would borrow the formulas used by the Westworld HBO series and the story mode from the 2011 Mortal Kombat game. And with the longer runtime format afforded to TV as opposed to film, you could provide more meatier backstory on plot lines from the films that would have benefited from better pacing and elaboration. Darth Maul being killed off at the end of TPM made him into an afterthought. But imagine a Darth Maul at the end of a 13 episode season. You could certainly give him more to do so that by the time he's killed off at the end of Season One: The Phantom Menace, his death means something. The same thing for Jango Fett. He didn't do much in AOTC, but what if AOTC were redone in the Netflix format? Imagine the possibilities. Instead of pairing him up Zam Wessel, have him work in tandem with Aurra Sing, setting things up for young Boba Fett's exploits in The Clone Wars.

I think that the Clone Wars show would have covered everything in ROTS if it wasn't canceled.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I thought it was their past connection, Padme being with Anakin as he was being her bodyguard, her going through the events on Tatooine with him losing his mom, her admitting during that shitty fireplace scene "regardless of the way we feel about each other" and so on. Obviously could have been written better, but I got it. Basically her political life and then going through this stuff with him on a human and personal level. He helped her break out of a shell so to speak.
WHAT past connection, literally he was a child when they first met and she was a teenager, a child who's first words were "are you an angel?" and that same child grows up to be an major creep. Being sheltered doesn't mean that you fall for creeps, especially those who caress you while you scream internally despite you saying no multiple times.
 
WHAT past connection, literally he was a child when they first met and she was a teenager, a child who's first words were "are you an angel?" and that same child grows up to be an major creep. Being sheltered doesn't mean that you fall for creeps, especially those who caress you while you scream internally despite you saying no multiple times.

They still had a past connection. Not romantically but when he showed back up as a full grown hottie, yeah.
 
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