• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Is it time to accept Revenge of the Sith as "one of the good" SW films? SPOILERS

Of course it isn't, it is a terrible movie. Now it's time for the real question.

Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Surfinn

Member
Great thread, relevant and interesting question.

Coming from a lifelong SW fan.. no.

It's got a chance to be a good film but when the direction and acting is needed the most, during crucial and defining moments, it fails just about every time. The emperor is ridiculously over the top and comical when he's supposed to be memorable. The scene when he names Vader is a fucking comedy routine. Padme is horribly acted when Anakin turns, Anakin is horribly acted after his turn. The Vader scene is ruined with his NO. Padme dies to a broken heart. The saber battle is over choreographed despite some decent emotion. Anakin randomly murders children after exclaiming "what have I done".

I could go on. But I'd say the biggest problem is that Lucas makes a habit of dropping the ball whenever he needed a huge moment to work.

There's far too much wrong with the film to call it good a on its own or as a part of the episodic canon.
 
S

Skux

Member
No. It wins the award for being the least bad prequel film but that doesn't make it a good movie.

The whole film hinges on Anakin turning to the dark side in a meaningful way, and it fails to accomplish this.

His motivation is shit. "I had nightmares that you would die" is so flimsy and paper thin. His reasons aren't justified because his visions come from literally nowhere. They aren't even a product of the dark side trying to influence him. They're just a cheap contrivance that's used to explain all of his actions.

And because of this, all of his actions are irrational to the viewer. We can't understand where he's coming from because it hasn't been explained, it just is. And that's just frustrating.
 
Costa Kid

Costa Kid

Member
I enjoyed the prequel Star Wars movies (seem to be in a monitory group on this forum). I don't deny they have so many flaws and had a lot more potential to be better, especially with the universe they created to the general viewer.
Revenge of the sith is my favourite prequel anyway.
 
S

Surfinn

Member
Skux said:
No. It wins the award for being the least bad prequel film but that doesn't make it a good movie.

The whole film hinges on Anakin turning to the dark side in a meaningful way, and it fails to accomplish this.

His motivation is shit. "I had nightmares that you would die" is so flimsy and paper thin. His reasons aren't justified because his visions come from literally nowhere. They aren't even a product of the dark side trying to influence him. They're just a cheap contrivance that's used to explain all of his actions.

And because of this, all of his actions are irrational to the viewer. We can't understand where he's coming from because it hasn't been explained, it just is. And that's just frustrating.
Click to expand...
This is another good point. The entire PT was supposed to be built on Anakin and his fall to the dark side. No excuse to have it rushed like it was and feel incredibly forced.
 
H

HiredN00bs

Member
For decades, fans wondered how it could be that Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader. For me, the legacy of the prequel trilogy and specifically Episode III was always going to rest predominantly on its ability to explain this in a compelling and convincing manner. It did neither.

The spectacle of the visual design and the novelty of new Star Wars movies prompted me to forgive the flaws in the prequels. I have no interest in forgiving them anymore. So much of Episode III makes me cringe, even more so than Episodes 1 and 2.
 
I

iuxion

Member
Personally I think it is the worst Star Wars film.

The only scene I remember sort of liking was when Sheev was talking about his master at the opera.

All of the other set pieces were lackluster. Anakin and Obi Wan vs. Count Dooku. Obi Wan vs. General Grievous. Sidious vs Mace Windu. Battle on the Wookie planet. Sidious vs Yoda. Anakin vs Obi Wan.

All of those scenes should have been slam dunks.

Most of the other Star Wars films have at least one or two great scenes.
 
S

Surfinn

Member
HiredN00bs said:
For decades, fans wondered how it could be that Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader. For me, the legacy of the prequel trilogy and specifically Episode III was always going to rest predominantly on its ability to explain this in a compelling and convincing manner. It did neither.

The spectacle of the visual design and the novelty of new Star Wars movies prompted me to forgive the flaws in the prequels. I have no interest in forgiving them anymore. So much of Episode III makes me cringe, even more so than Episodes 1 and 2.
Click to expand...
This post makes me sad. It reminds me of how I felt as a kid and the wondering about the mystery behind Darth Vader. I always imaged the story that would explain who he was and the tragedy that created him.

It sucks more to have those mysteries explained in the manner they were than simply never knowing.

So fucking disappointing.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
brandonh83 said:
They still had a past connection. Not romantically but when he showed back up as a full grown hottie, yeah.
Click to expand...
No they really didn't, he was literally a child, there was no attraction whatsoever, and Hayden Christensen isn't even that hot, he looks like that creepy kid who sits in the back of class and stares at you and acts exactly how you'd expect that kid to act.
 
B

Biske

Member
Surfinn said:
This post makes me sad. It reminds me of how I felt as a kid and the wondering about the mystery behind Darth Vader. I always imaged the story that would explain who he was and the tragedy that created him.

It sucks more to have those mysteries explained in the manner they were than simply never knowing.

So fucking disappointing.
Click to expand...

You're telling me that this doesn't do it for you?

Anakin transforms into Darth Vader



I can't stop laughing.



I wish I had a window into the minds of the people in the editing room after watching this.


"My god, what have we done"

Z5ji6o3.gif
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Crossing Eden said:
No they really didn't, he was literally a child, there was no attraction whatsoever, and Hayden Christensen isn't even that hot, he looks like that creepy kid who sits in the back of class and stares at you and acts exactly how you'd expect that kid to act.
Click to expand...

Hayden's pretty damn good looking.
 
B

Biske

Member
Surfinn said:
Lol I'm pretty sure they felt how Anakin did after slicing Windu. At least until.. You know.. He agreed to murder children. So no biggie.
Click to expand...


Seriously he goes from "oh shit, I just killed Mace"

right to "so you want me to murder ALL the jedi? deal"


Even the Sheev overacting that people in this thread are praising, is painful.
 
TheStruggler

TheStruggler

Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
generally people hate the prequels, but what would have been ideal for you as fans when making them, how would you make them and what sort of plot would you have? Personally I would have started episode 1 with Anakin being a teenager not a boy and the transition to the dark side span gradually over the 3 movies instead of ramping up in 3 "just because". Generally I didn't see much of a problem with Hayden, I thought the dialogue was shit and everything needed to be re-worked, I mean even Jackson sounded goofy as fuck saying those lines.
 
B

Barkley's Justice

Member
Movie's garbage.

I honestly like Phantom Menace best out of all those crappy prequels. It felt a little more weighted and grounded. Everything went full-on comic book after TPM.

Phantom Menace also gave us:

- Darth Maul
- Podracing

It's a shit movie but when I'm comparing 3 pieces of shit, it's the least shittiest piece of shit imho tbh.
 
H

HiredN00bs

Member
JK-Money said:
generally people hate the prequels, but what would have been ideal for you as fans when making them, how would you make them and what sort of plot would you have? Personally I would have started episode 1 with Anakin being a teenager not a boy and the transition to the dark side span gradually over the 3 movies instead of ramping up in 3 "just because".
Click to expand...
Yeah, Anakin's story would have had a longer and escalating series of personal tragedies. Palpatine would have been a Jedi master, or there would have to had been some separation where he could form a relationship with him (like Luke and Yoda). A failing marriage where the mother of their children leaves, a sense of betrayal by Obi-Wan. I mean, you could do it dozens of ways. Michael Douglas in Falling Down told a better Vader story than Episode III.
 
P

Peter Ian Staker

Member
JK-Money said:
generally people hate the prequels, but what would have been ideal for you as fans when making them, how would you make them and what sort of plot would you have? Personally I would have started episode 1 with Anakin being a teenager not a boy and the transition to the dark side span gradually over the 3 movies instead of ramping up in 3 "just because". Generally I didn't see much of a problem with Hayden, I thought the dialogue was shit and everything needed to be re-worked, I mean even Jackson sounded goofy as fuck saying those lines.
Click to expand...
Yeah Anakin should have been a Jedi from the start and turned to the dark side at the end of Ep. 2 with Ep.3 being dedicated to the Great Jedi Purge.
 
Bolivar687

Bolivar687

Banned
I enjoy the prequels for what they are and felt ROTS was about a good way to wrap up their direction as we could hope for. But the acting is still very subpar and the confrontations with Palpatine weren't great. So much of the prequels was forced into setting up the OT and with expectations that the viewer has already seen them. RotS forces even more of this than the others, whereas it should've been its own self-contained story.

JK-Money said:
generally people hate the prequels, but what would have been ideal for you as fans when making them, how would you make them and what sort of plot would you have? Personally I would have started episode 1 with Anakin being a teenager not a boy and the transition to the dark side span gradually over the 3 movies instead of ramping up in 3 "just because". Generally I didn't see much of a problem with Hayden, I thought the dialogue was shit and everything needed to be re-worked, I mean even Jackson sounded goofy as fuck saying those lines.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see Anakin as an accomplished pilot, Obi-Wan an older general, in his late 40s or 50s. The Emperor is as old as he is in the OT but more of a figurehead and hides behind advisors (like in the ANH novelization), who slowly take more control of the galaxy due to increasing revolts/ atrocities and the bureacracy's inability to stop a brewing civil war. The Jedi and Sith are more like Templars/Hospitallers ("damned fool idealistic crusade") who wear armor like storm troopers or Vader but with surcoats, to contrast the monks in hiding of the OT. Anakin dies in a climactic fight with the rebels in Episode II, and Darth Vader is a new character taking command of the Sith Knights in Episode III to drive out the remaining rebels and the Jedi who opposed the Empire. Leave ambiguity as to whether he's Anakin or not, to keep the reveal in ESB as a plot twist.
 
W

watershed

Banned
Barkley's Justice said:
Movie's garbage.

I honestly like Phantom Menace best out of all those crappy prequels. It felt a little more weighted and grounded. Everything went full-on comic book after TPM.

Phantom Menace also gave us:

- Darth Maul
- Podracing

It's a shit movie but when I'm comparing 3 pieces of shit, it's the least shittiest piece of shit imho tbh.
Click to expand...

I agree, despite a bad script and a boring film (one informs the other), TPM is the most competently made of all the prequels.
 
JediLink

JediLink

Member
I'd argue it's not that far behind RotJ. It has its problems, and way too many cringey lines/deliveries, but there's still a lot I like about it. In fact I'd say the only prequel that's irredeemably bad is Attack of the Clones.
 
B

Burai

shitonmychest57
Getting Ian McDiarmid back to play Palpatine was a great idea to add continuity.

So well done on fucking up his makeup and getting his voice completely wrong so he was unrecognisable from the character in Jedi.
 
K

KO Traveling Hobo

Member
yanipheonu said:
No, I really can't

The opening is fun enough, and the final action sequences are fun enough, but the movie fucking drags in-between the beginning and end.

The romance is insufferable. And all the setup for the Anakin's betrayal is pretty boring. I've straight up just skipped half the movie out of boredom while watching it with friends, to get to the good parts.

It's still better than Episode II. Always remember.
Click to expand...

This was my biggest problem with the prequels. Every scene between Anakin and Padme was pure torture.
 
H

Herne

Member
Sheroking said:
TPM is a pretty unbelievably awful film with like three pretty good scenes, and what you prioritize in your mind is how you're going to feel about the film.

Jake Lloyd is brutal. Liam Neeson is actually really bad. Ewan MacGregor gives his worst performance of the three. It has maybe the worst sense of humor in the modern history of film - and NOT just from Jar-Jar, who seems omnipresent. Remember the droids? Ughhhhh....

But if you've blocked the 80% of the film where all that takes place and focus on the Pod racing scene or Obi Wan/Neeson vs Maul, you might think it's offering more.
Click to expand...

I can't agree. Phantom Menace is certainly not a good film, in fact even though I love it I would say it's a mediocre film, but it is certainly not the worst of the saga so far.

Jake Lloyd is a kid struggling with pronunciation and difficult or awkward lines. If you've seen the fly on the wall making of that came with the DVD you'll have seen the other kids who auditioned for the role, and they were hardly stunning. Doug Chiang talks with another crew member about who their choice would be of the final three, and both agree on Lloyd, out of Lucas' hearing. A lot of people gave Lloyd shit for his role but that's only because they didn't want to see Vader as a kid, or a kid saving the day through nonsense antics. Neither of them are Lloyd's fault. I think he brings a naturalness to the role that's easily overlooked.

Liam Neeson is his usual awesome self. The easy authority with which he carries himself is evident and he really looks the part of a Jedi, the look we all expected in the long, silent years before Phantom and the OT. He's calmn and collected and such a reassuring presence on the screen, even to the other characters themselves - he always seems to have a hand on someone's shoulder. The "greyness" of Qui-Gon as a character always bothered me - how could you justify a Jedi trying to trick a merchant into taking money he can't use (though I suspect he could change it fairly easily), outright stealing a power converter from the same merchant and then using the Force to alter the roll of a dice in a bet? But Qui-Gon being ruled by the will of the Living Force makes sense, and Neeson's performance is spot on. He's gentle but strong, decisive and supportive with a good sense of humour - knowingly tweak the Queen's nose on Tatooine always made me smile.

Many people think the film would've been far better if Anakin was already an almost-grown Jedi with Obi-Wan as his master, and I think that's true, even though that would mean that Qui-Gon as one of my favourite characters would not exist. But there's a beautiful tragedy that exists in the film and echoes on throughout the rest of the trilogy because he does exist - he was a strong and stabilising father figure to Anakin who would have benefitted from being his student. As Dooku said, Qui-Gon knew all about the corruption of the Senate, so he would have kept him far away from Palpatine's influence and gaze. He was the parent figure who could make up for the loss kd Anakin's mother in his life, a role Obi-Wan couldn't hope to fill. Their relationship is contentious from the start. Can you really imagine Anakin resisting his authority and whining about being held back if Qui-Gon was in Obi-Wan's place in Clones? I can't see it. The tragedy of his character is that Qui-Gon has to die for Anakin to fall and become Vader, and to eventually fulfill his destiny in bringing balance to the Force by destroying both Vader and Palpatine.

Obi-Wan has little to do in this film, and Ewan is really constrained in what he can do. It's a shame he didn't have a bigger role and couldn't fill in as a somewhat Han Solo-ish character, something the film desperately needs.

Absolutely cannot agree on it having the worst sense of humour of the prequels. I can hardly believe you're mentioning the droids as an example given what we've seen of them in the other two - the voices get sillier in each. Slipping on oil provided by R2, giving an audible "uh-oh" on seeing the lift rise again and doing nothing but standing there as the inevitable happens. The ridiculous screams and noises of the tiny ones that attack Obi-Wan's ship. The stupid "Ow!" noises made when Anakin and Obi-Wan destroy them. "What that?" "That nothing. Get back to work." "You stupid little astro-droid!"

To say nothing of Threepio's "comedy" bits in Clones. "I'm quite beside myself." " This is such a drag." HA HA FUCKING HA.
 
A

Already Torn

Banned
Why would we suddenly start considering it "one of the good ones" when we're now getting new ones that are better than it?

If anything, we should now be realizing that ever calling it one of the good ones was foolish.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Titanoboa said:
Why would we suddenly start considering it "one of the good ones" when we're now getting new ones that are better than it?

If anything, we should now be realizing that ever calling it one of the good ones was foolish.
Click to expand...

It can still be one of the... better ones?
 
D

DontBeThatGuy

Member
it was my first time seeing a Star Wars film in the theater, and it was an enjoyable experience, which fooled me into thinking the movie was actually good, instead of the reality of it simply not being quite as shitty as the other two. (which it might actually be, considering it's been awhile since I've seen any of them
 
CD'S BAR

CD'S BAR

Member
It has the most mind-numbing opening of all 7 films and it lasts like a half hour. But it also has the opera scene.
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
It's schlock. You can enjoy it but its still not a good movie.

The stuff with Grevious is absolute fucking bollocks. All I remember from Sith is the first 10min or so, Lee getting decapitated, Anakin killing kids in the temple then bits of the video game lava level.

Oh and McDiamond hamming it up like a trouper. Whatever he got paid, he should have got more.

TPM had more of a coherency about it but I guess coming off AOTC, Sith being seen as a good movie isn't surprising. AOTC ranks along my most detested movie of the 2000's
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

The Wild Robot: A great family film if you wanna see everyone cry :P
45
4K
jufonuk replied
Transformers One: SHOCKINGLY good!
43
3K
ManaByte replied
[NY times] Is the Awkward ‘Diversity Era’ of Hollywood Behind Us?
Opinion 2
71
4K
Futaleufu replied
Alien Romulus | Rotten Watch
News Community 10 11 12 13 14
658
38K
Alex11 replied
Romancing SaGa 2: Revenge of the Seven | Review Thread
Review
22
2K
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt replied
Top Bottom