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[Trokil]

Over the last few week I read a lot of great articles post and other inputs about vaccination and how it helped reducing Polio or Smallpox. They are good stories and would actually make valid arguments for vaccination.

But at the end I often read the suggestion: "don't forget your flu shot" and I wonder, why did you have to ruin your success story with that addition? Maybe this is part of this black & white world, you can only be on one side. However, the flu shot is more or less gambling and everybody knows that it is more of an educated guess, unlike the other very successful vaccinations. So why is the flu shot even promoted for the general public?

If you work in healthcare; go get a flu shot. If you are part of a certain risk group, it is a very good idea, maybe as a teacher it also helps you because in schools you are always surrounded with sick kids, but everybody else? If in best case you have a 60% effectiveness and in a bad your only 10-20%, that is not really promoting the idea of vaccination.

Of course the vaccine will not be harmful for most people. Sometimes people get sick from the shot, but that is also not the problem. How do you want to promote something as useful a vaccination to people who got the flu after the flu shot. Of course you could explain the whole problem, but the basic fact will be, I got a vaccination and it did not work, so how can I trust anything about this anymore.

Also that the cdc promotes numbers to the people which are very rare is not helping. In their facts & myths they promote that it is 70 - 90% effective in a good year, but that those good years are rare makes them look bad again.

So maybe if people would drop the all or nothing ideal, it would be easier to promote the success of vaccinations.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

No. People should get their flu shots.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/when-should-i-get-the-influenza-vaccine/

 

[McDougles]

"Gotta hear both sides" is garbage.

 

[Seth Enosh]

The flu shot saves lives and every healthy adult should get one unless you have an allergy to the shots.

The promotion of the flu shot in the USA by the CDC is backed by well regarded epidemiology research saying that it saves lives and prevents illnesses over all.

There is a difference between the way the flu shot is promoted and the other vaccines you mention. Vaccines with very high effectiveness are usually required to enroll a child or adult in school. This leads to very good vaccination rates. The flu shot is voluntary unless you work in certain hospitals or other contexts.

 

[Trokil]

The flu shot saves lives and every healthy adult should get one unless you have an allergy to the shots.

Why do you want to promote that? In a good year it still is closer to a coin toss. It only weakens the argument for the real discussion.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I have a health issue the puts me at high risk of some serious shit if I get the flu so I try to stay on top of that

 

[bryehn]

I'm 40 and live in a large city in Ontario. We have a "superflu" every 5-8 years. Vaccine or not it could kill you. I'd err on the side of caution and not want to have the regular flu when some dude sneezes on me on the bus.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

So maybe if people would drop the all or nothing ideal, it would be easier to promote the success of vaccinations.

No. Things would be even worse if we went with that plan.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Why do you want to promote that? In a good year it still is closer to a coin toss. It only weakens the argument for the real discussion.

It still offers a lessening of duration and strength.

Not a "gamble".

 

[Shadynasty]

Got my flu shot this year.....still got the flu.

 

[Hazmat]

No. If people aren't giving their kids measles vaccines because two years ago the flu shot wasn't effective then the solution is more education, not choosing to not promote a cheap and often effective healthy choice like the flu vaccine.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Got my flu shot this year.....still got the flu.

Was it? Or was it a cold?

 

[gdt]

I don't mean to brush you off but whatttt?

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Why do you want to promote that? In a good year it still is closer to a coin toss. It only weakens the argument for the real discussion.

We shouldn't be hiding from the science around it. We should reeducate. Being scared of people rejecting vaccines just contributes to the idea that they are inherently unsafe. And that's not true.

 

[Engell]

I get my flu shot at work every year(u have to opt in), everyone wins if it works.

 

[Keri]

I never got a flu shot as an adult, until I was pregnant, but I can't imagine skipping it now. Even if you aren't a member of the population that is most at risk from the flu, even if your odds of surviving it are really good, you probably know someone who is in a riskier population, so just get the flu shot for them. Also, even if it's only a 20%-60% success rate, it feels good to know you're doing everything you possibly can, to protect those around you.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Trokil, you're the same person who went on about how GMOs are bad for the enviornment and offer no benefits, right? Between that and this you're becoming mighty suspect.

 

[Already Torn]

Because there's no reason not to and herd immunity.

This reminds me of those "Does it bother anyone else when cashiers say 'Have a Nice Day??'" threads.

 

[meltingparappa]

Why do you want to promote that? In a good year it still is closer to a coin toss. It only weakens the argument for the real discussion.

50% is better than 0%
10% is better than 0%

The side effects are neligible unless you have a per-existing susceptibility, and its literal lives saved for both the person who has the shot, as well as people who come into contact and aren't exposed to a new vector..

 

[BobTheFork]

Was it? Or was it a cold?

lol

 

[Gotchaye]

I feel like the benefit of having people see vaccination as ordinary is probably going to outweigh the cost of people thinking that vaccines aren't that effective.

I mean, I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone talking as if the reason they doubt the efficacy of childhood vaccination is because they got a flu shot but still got the flu. Mostly you don't even see many people doubting the efficacy of childhood vaccination at all - my sense is that anti-vaxxers are a lot more likely to argue that actually childhood diseases aren't that bad or that vaccines are just dangerous even though they do what they promise to do.

Meanwhile it's a lot harder to scaremonger about vaccines if a bunch of people you know have been getting them annually with no ill effects.

 

[MrNelson]

Why do you want to promote that? In a good year it still is closer to a coin toss. It only weakens the argument for the real discussion.

So you're saying the average healthy person should forego getting a flu shot and risk getting someone with a much weaker immune system sick because "it may be less effective that year"?

 

[Transistor]

Why do you want to promote that? In a good year it still is closer to a coin toss. It only weakens the argument for the real discussion.

Coin toss is so disingenuous to the work that doctor's and scientists do to try to prevent this year's flu virus.

Besides, a coin toss of "this might help you" vs "do nothing at all" is a really easy choice.

 

[Aikidoka]

Influenza is still a serious disease, and deciding to not counteract it because of the uneducated is pretty stupid and irresponsible.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

you trolling? never mind that the flu virus is one of the fastest changing viruses, which is why vaccinations have a "varied" effective response, you're changing your chance of preventing an influenza infection from 10-60% to 0%.

 

[redlegs87]

Why do you want to promote that? In a good year it still is closer to a coin toss. It only weakens the argument for the real discussion.

Unless you have an allergy to it there really is no downside in getting the shot. Would you not wear a bullet resistant vest if it had a coin toss chance of stopping the bullet compared to having zero protection of any kind?

 

[ReBurn]

I've never looked at the flu shot as a gamble. I've always looked at it as decreasing my chances of staying healthy, even if it isn't 100% effective.

 

[Already Torn]

Why do you want to promote that? In a good year it still is closer to a coin toss. It only weakens the argument for the real discussion.

Because it saves lives.

I look forward for my above statement to be used by antivaxxers to attack the vaccination "discussion".

 

[Transistor]

I've never looked at the flu shot as a gamble. I've always looked at it as decreasing my chances of staying healthy, even if it isn't 100% effective.

Did you mean increasing your chances of staying healthy?

 

[Guevara]

I get what you're saying.

The flu shot is bad science, basically. It barely works most years, and the U.S. is alone in suggesting the general population get it every season. Most countries recommend it only for at-risk populations. I believe the European health agencies also disagrees with the CDC on this.

So, the net result is some Americans probably think most vaccines are like the flu shot: optional, ineffective, and far from universally accepted.

But most vaccines are important and effective, the flu shot just sucks.

 

[ReBurn]

Did you mean increasing your chances of staying healthy?

Yes

 

[Shadynasty]

Was it? Or was it a cold?

103F fever with all the bells and whistles.

 

[gaugebozo]

Why do you want to promote that? In a good year it still is closer to a coin toss. It only weakens the argument for the real discussion.

The equations that model flu spreading are strongly dependent on how many people have it can spread it. In other words, only a bit of a change in how many people are walking around with flu can be the difference between an epidemic and a bad flu season. Even a 19% effectiveness rate can make a huge difference.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Yep, I'm going to reduce my prevention rate from whatever it is during a given year to 0% because some people fell for a stupid conspiracy theory.

 

[baxter2231]

If people understand the flu shot and how it works they wont stop getting it if they happen to get the wrong strain and get the flu one year. Its free for most people and they have different methods to administer it, there is no excuse to not get it. Im sure there many youtube videos that wxplain the science is layman terms.

They probably only advertise it unlike polio because you need to get a shot ever year at a certain time of year and polio you do not have that.

 

[hawk2025]

Wow, wow, wow.

The purpose of the flu shot isn't to be 100% effective -- it's impossible, in fact.

The purpose is to vaccinate enough people and increase the probability of staying healthy enough that it avoids large-scale flu outbreaks and save at-risk people that happened to not get a vaccine.

 

[Trokil]

So you're saying the average healthy person should forego getting a flu shot and risk getting someone with a much weaker immune system sick because "it may be less effective that year"?

I don't get your argument. If you are in a group with a risk you will probably get the shot anyway. But promoting it to the general public will not increase or decrease your risk. If it is the wrong strain,then it is not effective anyway and if it is right you got the shot in the first place.

And unlike Polio or Smallpox you can not stop the flu or reduce it or getting rid of it. It will probably return every year for a very long time. That is why usually it is recommended to people with health risks or the elderly and not everybody. At least in Switzerland that is the case.

 

[Chumly]

Everyone should get the flu shot. I get it and I'm a young healthy adult and I don't get "sick sick". Work and public places spread enough germs. I do my part to help lessen the spread.

The worst people are the ones that don't "need" the flu shot and then come to work sick anyways and get everyone else sick.

 

[Naudi]

I've never had a flu shot , and never even thought about it. Lot of people at work get it but they are sick way more then me. Probably because all the GMO they eat I'm sure.

 

[Already Torn]

I don't get your argument. If you are in a group with a risk you will probably get the shot anyway. But promoting it to the general public will not increase or decrease your risk. If it is the wrong strain,then it is not effective anyway and if it is right you got the shot in the first place.

And unlike Polio or Smallpox you can not stop the flu or reduce it or getting rid of it. It will probably return every year for a very long time.

You don't get the argument because you don't understand how vaccines work. Some people can't get the vaccine or wouldn't be able to mount an effective response to the vaccine if they did get it. If everyone around them is vaccinated and has immunity, it reduces their chances of getting the flu despite the fact that there body has very little defenses. This is called herd immunity.

And the good thing there is that they make a new flu vaccine every year, so it doesn't matter if it's completely eradicated.

To your point though, I don't really understand the point of medicine at all because eventually everyone will die.

 

[hawk2025]

I don't get your argument. If you are in a group with a risk you will probably get the shot anyway. But promoting it to the general public will not increase or decrease your risk. If it is the wrong strain,then it is not effective anyway and if it is right you got the shot in the first place.

And unlike Polio or Smallpox you can not stop the flu or reduce it or getting rid of it. It will probably return every year for a very long time.

...yes it will. Lord.

Seniors get flu from younger people.

Not all seniors get vaccinated.

This isn't rocket science.

Just trust that a lot of people thought about this for a century, ok?

 

[redlegs87]

Herd immunity:

 

[Deleted member 20920]

OP, if people are not understanding what vaccines are and how they work, the opposite should happen. Which means even more promoting of vaccines, more attempts and attention to let people know how and why they work. You fight misinformation with more exposure to the right information, not shrink away and obscure yourself.

 

[Opto]

A flushot is not the same as other vaccines. They're best guesses to what flu strains are going to appear during flu season.

Fuck, if you want it in video game terms, since it's gaf, you obviously wear the armor that says +3% DEF as apposed to NOTHING.

 

[Naudi]

Herd immunity:

That's also assuming everyone vaccinated doesn't get sick. But we know that's never the case. But hopefully everyone else keeps getting it so I don't have to lol

 

[Haly]

Herd immunity:

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Herd-Immunity-Take-2.png

I didn't even understand how herd immunity worked and now I do. It's so simple.

 

[Trokil]

Herd immunity:

You are using a system which does not work for the flu, because if it is the wrong strain the whole system breaks down. And that exactly not the case with the other vaccinations.

So maybe not the hill to die on?

 

[hawk2025]

I've never had a flu shot , and never even thought about it. Lot of people at work get it but they are sick way more then me. Probably because all the GMO they eat I'm sure.

That's also assuming everyone vaccinated doesn't get sick. But we know that's never the case. But hopefully everyone else keeps getting it so I don't have to lol

Ok, I don't know if you are joking or not, but two things:

- there is zero evidence that GMOs are harmful.

- other people being more sick than you means exactly NOTHING.

You are using a system which does not work for the flu, because if it is the wrong strain the whole system breaks down. And that exactly not the case with the other vaccinations.

So maybe not the hill to die on?

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

[Keri]

You don't get the argument because you don't understand how vaccines work. Some people can't get the vaccine or wouldn't be able to mount an effective response to the vaccine if they did get it. If everyone around them is vaccinated and has immunity, it reduces their chances of getting the flu despite the fact that there body has very little defenses. This is called herd immunity.

Herd immunity is so important. Thanks to anti-vaxxers in my local area, we had a measles outbreak recently, which makes me so scared for my 6 month old (who is too young to be vaccinated against measles yet). Such an unnecessary risk.

 

[pirateluigi]

You are using a system which does not work for the flu, because if it is the wrong strain the whole system breaks down. And that exactly not the case with the other vaccinations.

So maybe not the hill to die on?

But if it IS right then you save lives. Why wouldn't you do it?