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[Incognito]

Saw her remarks about Stem Cell research a few weeks back, and it was absolutely appaling. My mind was refreshed about her idiocy last night on the Daily Show. Anyone else listen to that pile of fucking garbage?

I'll try to dig up the quote...

 

[Gattsu25]

any quotes or summaries would be helpful

while I desperately want to believe that the entire Bush family is retarded, I would need something to go on :b

 

[Incognito]

Yeah, sorry about that. I'm still digging. It was along the lines of, "offering high hopes to people who suffer from these dieases is just wrong."

 

[Incognito]

``But I know that embryonic stem-cell research is very preliminary, and the implication that cures for Alzheimer's are around the corner is just not right, and it's really not fair to the people who are watching a loved one suffer from this disease.''

Laura Bush

 

[LakeEarth]

It's kind of a confusing quote...

 

[Wolfy]

That quote by itself isn't very disgusting.

 

[Dilbert]

I wish I could read the entire article to get the context. However, what she said is exactly correct -- a treatment or cure for Alzheimer's based on embryonic stem cell research IS far away.

With that said, the "just around the corner" cures will NEVER get around the corner unless research continues to be done, and Federal funding would sure as hell help. If she's so concerned about the familes of those afflicted with the disease, it would be a nice gesture to, say, get off her moral high horse and permit science to take some steps forward?

 

[shoplifter]

The gist of it was -'there's no evidence that stem cell research will lead to anything. we're getting hopes up. oh yeah, we shouldn't do it because we don't know if anything will come of it. also, it's wrong.'

 

[Incognito]

As Jon Stewart said last night, "Hell, why even start researching, then?" The point is, the Bush administration is not allowing unabated research on Stem Cells. Over what, exactly?

Here's a good quote from John Kerry:

``It is entirely within ethical bounds to do embryonic stem-cell research without violating one's beliefs at all about what life is or where it is and what matters,'' he said. ``I think you have to measure it also against the lives you save, against the diseases that you're curing. Life is important to us, and I think if we can cure Alzheimer's, if we can cure AIDS, if we can cure diabetes, if we can save millions of lives by doing research on something that may be destroyed anyway, that the balance is important.''

I've posted the link to the entire article.

 

[DSN2K]

I didnt know Bush was the one blocking this, shame on him...

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

it's like the bush seed makes people stupid, which is odd considering dady bush is a sharp fellow and very international. (except for ruining japanese banquets and all....)

 

[PotatoeMasher]

it's like the bush seed makes people stupid, which is odd considering dady bush is a sharp fellow and very international. (except for ruining japanese banquets and all....)

bush sr was painted as dumb when he was the president... just as reagan was...

you see, this dumb thing isn't even a new attack--at least we find unique things to bash dems with (clinton's lying (about affairs and other things), kerry's flip-flopping)

 

[LakeEarth]

Yeah and that Quayle was stupid...

wait...

 

[Incognito]

This is a "dumb thing" to you?

 

[Phoenix]

There are no guarantees in life, nor in scientific research. You do research to figure out if you can solve problems. There aren't any guarantees when using the same materials to allow a couple to conceive. Since we're talking about outlawing the research because there are no guarantees isn't it ignorant to at the same time support reproductive research AND techniques that require the use of the same materials?

This issue is just another election snow job. The fact that the general public doesn't realize that this material is used for 'other' purposes, some which we desire, makes it possible for politicians to sway you based entirely on emotion.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

It's just short-sighted.

Yes, an applicable use for stem cells is far off, but you just don't stop researching it because it's not around the corner.

It's not stupid, but it is ignorant.

 

[TheQueen'sOwn]

Man... where's my cure for cancer?

Cancel all funding!

/ugh

 

[Traumahound]

The Daily Show's take on it (after the news about the troops)

http://www.comedycentral.com/mp/play.php?reposid=/multimedia/tds/headlines/9021.html

 

[Celicar]

bush doesn't want to kill babies. or clones. stem cell research is okay, but don't kill either of those in order to do it.

 

[Mandark]

Michael Kinsley writes an absolute dynamite piece about her quotes here.

 

[capslock]

I am no bush supporter, but just to be fair, bush is not opposed to stem cell research, only for federal funding for it.

 

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

bush sr was painted as dumb when he was the president...

No he wasn't. His vice-president was (deservedly) painted as dumb, however. Bush Sr.'s opponents painted him as being out of touch with common Americans.

Reagan - dumb
Bush Sr. - out of touch elitist
Clinton - lying pervert
W. Bush - moron

 

[Phoenix]

I am no bush supporter, but just to be fair, bush is not opposed to stem cell research, only for federal funding for it.

In August 2001, President Bush announced his decision to limit federal funds to 70 stem cell lines that he said were an ample amount to carry out such research. But it later turned out that of the 70 lines, only 11 could be used for research and the other 59 could not.

And to be just as fair, federal funding amounts to a significant amount of money for research in these areas. No one is pulling out their checkbook to fund this form of research, though I would gratefully check on that box if it were on my income tax form.

 

[ManDudeChild]

No he wasn't. His vice-president was (deservedly) painted as dumb, however. Bush Sr.'s opponents painted him as being out of touch with common Americans.

Reagan - dumb
Bush Sr. - out of touch elitist
Clinton - lying pervert
W. Bush - moron

Pity that one of those isn't just a painting from opponents.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I always saw her as a sort of sympathetic character. Quiet librarian chick, hooks up with brash rich coke-snorting rowdy. Gets dragged along with the family's sense of fortune but keeps nose clean (and buried in a book instead of cocaine).

Now that he's facing another close election their trotting her out to rouse the evangelical base. They don't read anything but the bible (poorly at that). It doesn't suit her at all and her charm is gone.

 

[Makura]

The Daily Show is awful now if that video is any indication. It's so obvious they're all about an agenda now. It's a real shame, I used to love the show.

 

[shoplifter]

An agenda of what? They abuse anyone and everything.

 

[MrPing1000]

u had respect for Laura Bush b4?

 

[xsarien]

The Daily Show is awful now if that video is any indication. It's so obvious they're all about an agenda now. It's a real shame, I used to love the show.

Well, maybe if the Bush administration would stop making it so bloody easy for them...

 

[demon]

The Daily Show is awful now if that video is any indication. It's so obvious they're all about an agenda now. It's a real shame, I used to love the show.

Their "agenda" is to expose the idiocy, lies and corruption of both parties in humorous ways. Like xsarien said, Bush and his administration just make it too fucking easy.

 

[Celicar]

The Daily Show is awful now if that video is any indication. It's so obvious they're all about an agenda now. It's a real shame, I used to love the show.

I agree. I don't watch that garbage anymore.

 

[Winged Creature]

Laura Bush is an idiot, if she was a specialist in the area of medical research and said that, then i would think what she had to say was credible, what she's saying now is just showing her stupidity. She probably doesnt have anything past grade 12 science.

 

[doncale]

off topic.

Hilary Clinton: bad for america

 

[videogamer]

Man... where's my cure for cancer?

Cancel all funding!

/ugh

I've talked to scientists that do believe that they have the "cure for cancer". Whether it works out or not... we'll have to wait. Also, you also have to keep in mind the role inter-personal politics plays in getting grants.

 

[Belfast]

Jesus, even Ron Reagan Jr. said he knows that an Alzheimer's cure isn't right around the corner, but we'll never know if we don't attempt to push this research.

 

[DJ_Tet]

And to be just as fair, federal funding amounts to a significant amount of money for research in these areas. No one is pulling out their checkbook to fund this form of research, though I would gratefully check on that box if it were on my income tax form.

No kidding. It's not like there isn't money to be made in this research. They shouldn't need federal handouts to 'make it happen.' Being against stem cell research and making the public fund it are two entirely different agendas. Whomever studies stem cells and comes up with the cure for paralysis stands to set their family up for generations. Why does it take the federal govt to make that happen?

 

[Saturnman]

The Daily Show is awful now if that video is any indication. It's so obvious they're all about an agenda now. It's a real shame, I used to love the show.

Even if that is so, comedy ceases to be comedy if there's an agenda involved?

What you find funny in the world must be pretty limited.

 

[AntoneM]

No kidding. It's not like there isn't money to be made in this research. They shouldn't need federal handouts to 'make it happen.' Being against stem cell research and making the public fund it are two entirely different agendas. Whomever studies stem cells and comes up with the cure for paralysis stands to set their family up for generations. Why does it take the federal govt to make that happen?

There's no money in cures (compared to treatments), that's why no private company wants to spend the money on this research.

 

[Diomedeskun]

Stem-cells are very useful in treating many diseases, but there is no indication that they can even help Alzheimers even one iota, that is just a popular myth. They serve to help blood and muscle diseases, but they are not likely to function for the brain.

Furthermore, stem cells are also available from live babies without harming them shortly after they are born, as well as from their afterbirth.

 

[Hitokage]

Stem-cells are very useful in treating many diseases, but there is no indication that they can even help Alzheimers even one iota, that is just a popular myth. They serve to help blood and muscle diseases, but they are not likely to function for the brain.

Oh, and I thought the capacity to actually generate new neurons in an adult brain had quite a bit of potential.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

As much as I disagree with Laura Bush, and as much as I think embryonic stem-cell research has potential I have to agree with Chris Rock's old schpiel on "the cure":

and whats this with the diseases and doctors? they havent cured shit. they never cure nothing, they just patch it up so it gets you to the next level. we got aids out there, you think they gonna cure aids? NO! they cant even cure athletes foot. they aint curin aids, they aint never curing aids, never. dont even think about that shit. they aint curing aids cause there aint no money in the cure....the moneys in the medicine. thats how you get paid, on the cutback. thats how a drug dealer makes his money...on the cutback. thats all the government is...a bunch of motherfuckn drug dealers. thats all it is. you think they gonna cure aids? they still mad at all the money they spent on polio. thats like cadillac making a car that lasts for 50 years. and you know they can do it, but they aint not gonna be that fuckn dumb. shit they got metal on a space shuttle that can go around the moon and withstand temperatures of up to 20,000 degrees and you mean to tell me that you dont think they can make a el dorado where the bumper dont fall off? they CAN but they WONT. but what they will do with every disease is figure up a way for you to live with it....but at least they working on aids, they trying to cure aids....some diseases they just gave up on. some diseases, if you get it, your on your own. they aint gonna have no telethon for you, R. Kelly aint singin no songs, you just got dis shit. thats right. if you get paralyzed they aint got shit fer you. look at christopher reeves... paralyzed. superman cant walk...what kinda sorry ass shit is that? superman cant walk, whats next? what da fuck? aqua man gonna get drowned in the tub? wot kinda injustice is this...superman cant walk. now if you go and tell the doctor you paralyzed they aint got shit for ya. your like "hey doc im paralyzed what you got?" the docs like "why dont you take this chair and roll your ass around town?". is that all the fuck you guys got? a goddam chair? where the fuck am i spose to take this prescription? to a furniture store? i gotta go to IKEA? what da fuck? i said i cant walk i aint said i cant sit. thats right. if your blind, they aint got shit for ya. take a look at stevie wonder. hes got all the money in the world...doesnt know if hes got $100 bills or $1 bills. its just a stack to stevie...just a stack. if you tell the doctor you blind, he aint got shit fer ya. "errr hey doc im blind wot you got?" docs like "ahhh why dont you take this dog and have the dog drag your blind ass around town?" dat all the fuck you got is a damn dog? oh man if i could see, i'd whoop your ass. a fuckn dog? what the fuck is up wit you, come on gimme a midget or something. dats right. blind people should get midgets. its hard enough living life when you blind, now they gotta learn how to talk dog? what kinda shit is that, you cant see so you cant read the dogs lips...you just listen "ruff ruff, ruff ruff".

 

[calder]

I've always thought that Chris Rock routine was by far the stupidest shit he ever said. BY FAR. It's not to be taken literally, but it's still the dumbest of analogies, and I remember hearing the "they don't want to cure disease, they want to make $$ on the treatment" bit the first time and being almost embarrassed about how ridiculous it sounded even as a joke.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

You have no sense of humor, no soul or are perhaps not cynical enough to appreciate it.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

I've always thought that Chris Rock routine was by far the stupidest shit he ever said. BY FAR. It's not to be taken literally, but it's still the dumbest of analogies, and I remember hearing the "they don't want to cure disease, they want to make $$ on the treatment" bit the first time and being almost embarrassed about how ridiculous it sounded even as a joke.

Yeah, I thought it was stupid but funny, kinda in a conspiracy way.

 

[videogamer]

Furthermore, stem cells are also available from live babies without harming them shortly after they are born, as well as from their afterbirth.

Not all stem cells are the same. The ones that seem the most promising are the embryonic ones, which are often taken from the inner cell mass of the blastocyst. For those unaware, the blastocyst is kind of like a hollow ball of cells with a clump of cells inside (ICM). The outer ball-like covering becomes things like the placenta and umbilical cord. The ICM becomes the developing organism. Generally, as the organism develops, genes are turned "off", and the cell becomes more and more specialized. How exactly the genetic material is turned on and off is still being figured out. One method I know of that involves genetic material being reprogrammed to act new is somatic cell nuclear transfer, which is essentially cloning, and most people wouldn't go that far with humans. Of course, our own bodies have stem cells, but these are even more specialized than the embroyonic ones, leading to more specialized cell lines.

No kidding. It's not like there isn't money to be made in this research. They shouldn't need federal handouts to 'make it happen.' Being against stem cell research and making the public fund it are two entirely different agendas. Whomever studies stem cells and comes up with the cure for paralysis stands to set their family up for generations. Why does it take the federal govt to make that happen?

Private pharmaceutical companies tend to focus on specific goals in their projects. They tend not to work on "basic science", which is where many discoveries have been done, often by accident. Also, grants for researchers come predominantly from the NIH... anything else just fills in the gaps. The NIH grant is THE grant. Without a NIH grant, a researcher's future is often in doubt, and a lab closure may be due. Furthermore, getting a cure for paralysis is no sure thing.... that person has to feed his/her family somehow.

We really have no idea where the next discoveries may be found. It could be two researchers working weekends in a lab built up from auctioned materials. I know of some scientists who have found promising drugs this way, but their results were built upon government basic research (in this case development of blood vessels).

 

[B-B-Bomba!]

``It is entirely within ethical bounds to do embryonic stem-cell research without violating one's beliefs at all about what life is or where it is and what matters,'' he said. ``I think you have to measure it also against the lives you save, against the diseases that you're curing. Life is important to us, and I think if we can cure Alzheimer's, if we can cure AIDS, if we can cure diabetes, if we can save millions of lives by doing research on something that may be destroyed anyway, that the balance is important.''

Thanks HPN. Words from Kerry are oddly scarce ...

My opinion (and it is only that) is that this quote shows Kerry as the soulless G-man I'm sure we all rather suspect him to be. I agree with the emotional sense of some of Chris Rocks sentiments: life is very likely to truly suck at parts, and it always ends. Kerry says that millions of lives can be saved by research, but it is only souls which truly require the feat. Science and progress are naturally mandatory: who would possibly seriously suggest attempting to stem such a flood? Talk about your straw men ... The only reason business-people permanently require technology to advance at breakneck speeds, is that it wrong-foots the mass-population, allows them to be exploited by the legitimate crimes of business and government, and generally puts anyone who isn't 'in on it' at a relative disadvantage.

Science = money = power; they all cause one another. Science is the process of creating technique, money is the universal mathematical conversion language used as a base network for events (and hence social structure), and power is the resulting ability to achieve any conceivable effect, be it a biological hotfix, still further research, or ten thousand painful deaths. Bombs are not the only weapon, nor are they only used to kill. Anything can be meant for anything: the decisive factor is in intent, and the question when we come to intent is always: whose?

'The media'* is one of the most powerful instruments of effect yet devised, and thus one of the most potentially destructive. This is why we are here to argue about which kinds of research are morally acceptable (an infectious and unsolvable riddle, being twinned with the moral debate), and not about what are the real problems facing our existence; something of whose very plain and evident nature, the fact that our corrupt, careless and exploitative government structure manages to address and deal with it all should be evidence aplenty.

Everything else the governmental system does is flim-flam and misdirection, obscuring the fact that it is a process designed to control who has science/money/power, and over what. My personal view is that it is gone time that several layers of this type of bullshit were scraped away from the world. Bear it in mind that I am attacking the value of the discussion itself, and have no intent to provide support for either argument either way. I have no valid opinion of Laura Bush.



*(Why is it not called 'the medium'?)

 

[DJ_Tet]

People are saying there is no money in the cure, but the treatment, which is exactly what Chris Rock said.

Drug companies say that current drugs are so expensive as to fund research. Then they say they need govt handouts to do stem cell research. Someone is talking out both sides of their ass.

 

[Phoenix]

People are saying there is no money in the cure, but the treatment, which is exactly what Chris Rock said.

Drug companies say that current drugs are so expensive as to fund research. Then they say they need govt handouts to do stem cell research. Someone is talking out both sides of their ass.

Drug companies say that because it makes more sense for them to get money in the form of grants that they don't have to repay than to cut into their bottom lines for billions of dollars to produce drugs that the FDA might not even approve.

 

[videogamer]

People are saying there is no money in the cure, but the treatment, which is exactly what Chris Rock said.

Drug companies say that current drugs are so expensive as to fund research. Then they say they need govt handouts to do stem cell research. Someone is talking out both sides of their ass.

I think there's some confusion over where NIH funding goes. NIH funding tends to go to academics at universities. The NIH R01 grant is the one that tends to be the major grant that keeps labs alive. The private companies fund their own research...that's why they oftentimes tell their researchers to not publish their results right away. However, the private companies' research is often done upon the basic science that is government funded. Other times, the research is done at the universities and then private companies come in to help test and market the drug. It's the university researchers that need the government funding, not so much the private companies.

http://grants1.nih.gov/grants/award/trends/rnk03all1to100.html

 

[DJ_Tet]

Yeah I didn't take into account the difference between university and private research. My point was broad, and probably somewhat misguided.