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[AJUMP23]

Build a windows ME box.

 

[Brakum]

It's not meant to be user friendly

I disagree. A lot of those distros like mint were made with user friendliness being one if not their main goal.

This is like the first thing their website says

What is Linux Mint?​

Linux Mint is an operating system for desktop and laptop computers. It is designed to work 'out of the box' and comes fully equipped with the apps most people need.



It's literally the only sentence under 'wat is linux mint?'

there is this section later:

Why choose Linux Mint?

Easy to use, fast and comfortable.​

a few more quotes:

Everything just works "Out Of The Box", without the need to configure anything or to install extra applications.

It's very easy to use

 

[Unknown?]

It happens on windows except it doesnt happen is what you're saying? I mean yes we are aware that things work on windows because manufacturers make sure they work on windows. But that doesnt matter. If i buy something i know it will work on windows period. If you bought a piece of hardware and came home and it just didnt work on windows you'd probably have a very good case to get a refund. Because if it doesnt work on windows, it doesnt work anywhere so you got a product that doesnt work. If it doesnt work on windows because it's some mac thing or something, then i'm sure it is plastered all over the box that it's only mac compatible.

I'm saying it isn't the operating system. In your case it didn't work because you built it yourself and it was a big error, not a little one. Windows has problems too where you need to download drivers and configure stuff, a normie can't build a computer their self and figure out how to get everything to work.

I skipped all of this by buying a made-for-linux prebuilt but if I hadn't, I'd just get it to work initially and be done with it. You didn't want to spend the extra time and that's okay.

The market strongly disagrees. Linux is far from being the default for the average user.

The majority of the market doesn't even know what Linux is. Go to any normie rando on the street and they will tell you that they've never heard of it. Also I never said it was default, just that everything works.

 

[gooner4life_uk]

I disagree. A lot of those distros like mint were made with user friendliness being one if not their main goal.

This is like the first thing their website says

What is Linux Mint?​

Linux Mint is an operating system for desktop and laptop computers. It is designed to work 'out of the box' and comes fully equipped with the apps most people need.

But by default that will boot into a desktop environment that lacks the customisation you're looking for, it will be limited in a similar way you're finding Windows to be limited, people will claim to game on linux and think they know how to use Linux but they're letting Steam do all the heavy lifting for them, they don't know how to use linux, that's like saying you're a python developer because you can pip install tkinter after reading it on a guide.

If you try to mess around customising things in a linux desktop environment and break something you could make your desktop unusable, Linux is very unforgiving, you could delete or modify a file that's required for boot and not even realise until 2 years later when you reboot it and then suddenly it doesn't work.

 

[Brakum]

I'm saying it isn't the operating system. In your case it didn't work because you built it yourself and it was a big error, not a little one. Windows has problems too where you need to download drivers and configure stuff, a normie can't build a computer their self and figure out how to get everything to work.

I skipped all of this by buying a made-for-linux prebuilt but if I hadn't, I'd just get it to work initially and be done with it. You didn't want to spend the extra time and that's okay.

you dont need to download drivers for your internet to work on windows regardless of how new your mobo is. Will it work worse without the drivers? Sure. But you're not gonna have an ethernet cable plugged in and the internet just not working and you having to use another pc to go download some drivers. And in this case it's not even drivers, it's the freaking kernel.

Like if i was really commited to use mint my options to fix linux was to go to windows to fix linux. the irony. At least for this problem which requires internet to be solved.

 

[Brakum]

But by default that will boot into a desktop environment that lacks the customisation you're looking for, it will be limited in a similar way you're finding Windows to be limited, people will claim to game on linux and think they know how to use Linux but they're letting Steam do all the heavy lifting for them, they don't know how to use linux, that's like saying you're a python developer because you can pip install tkinter after reading it on a guide.

If you try to mess around customising things in a linux desktop environment and break something you could make your desktop unusable, Linux is very unforgiving, you could delete or modify a file that's required for boot and not even realise until 2 years later when you reboot it and then suddenly it doesn't work.

But i didnt mess up anything. It simply didnt work out of the box because the kernel is too old for 2024 hardware. And yeah i figured out why and know a way to fix it, i just cant be bothered to spend all that time to fix the very first step of setting up the OS in an OS that claims to work out of the box.

 

[gooner4life_uk]

But i didnt mess up anything. It simply didnt work out of the box because the kernel is too old for 2024 hardware. And yeah i figured out why and know a way to fix it, i just cant be bothered to spend all that time to fix the very first step of setting up the OS in an OS that claims to work out of the box.

Ok cool, stick with Windows like i said then, can we close this thread now mods?

 

[Brakum]

Ok cool, stick with Windows like i said then, can we close this thread now mods?

Fine i'll stick with windows. I'm just glad we clarified that your statement that it isn't supposed to be easy was verifiably false by the source itself.

 

[Bojanglez]

But i didnt mess up anything. It simply didnt work out of the box because the kernel is too old for 2024 hardware. And yeah i figured out why and know a way to fix it, i just cant be bothered to spend all that time to fix the very first step of setting up the OS in an OS that claims to work out of the box.

This is why consoles are so popular.

 

[gooner4life_uk]

Fine i'll stick with windows. I'm just glad we clarified that your statement that it isn't supposed to be easy was verifiably false by the source itself.

It's marketing, Microsoft say Xbox is the best console.

 

[Unknown?]

But i didnt mess up anything. It simply didnt work out of the box because the kernel is too old for 2024 hardware. And yeah i figured out why and know a way to fix it, i just cant be bothered to spend all that time to fix the very first step of setting up the OS in an OS that claims to work out of the box.

That's your choice, and it is a problem, but being fixable makes it not a biggie IMO.

 

[Brakum]

It's marketing, Microsoft say Xbox is the best console.

And i'm sure that's their goal, so while it might not be the best console, they want it to be. It really is the same thing. Mint might not be easy, but they want it to be. Both failed at their job.

 

[gooner4life_uk]

i mean, no matter the hardware Mint would be easy for me to use, I've made suggestions in order for you to use it as a learning experience but that's not for everybody, stick to the speak and spell.

 

[Unknown?]

And i'm sure that's their goal, so while it might not be the best console, they want it to be. It really is the same thing. Mint might not be easy, but they want it to be. Both failed at their job.

It is easy though. All my normie family that only have experience with Mac or Windows can use it just fine.

 

[Brakum]

It is easy though. All my normie family that only have experience with Mac or Windows can use it just fine.

Because your family and friends have computers where mint works as intended out of the box. I'm not saying mint is hard, im saying i had a terrible experience with it, because it didnt work as advertised because it's outdated for my hardware. I dont think the chances of your family being happy with it would be high if they turned on their pc and had no internet no matter what, they'd call you and you'd do some research and figure out why and then come over with kernel 8.10 in an usb stick and fix it.

 

[PaintTinJr]

But i didnt mess up anything. It simply didnt work out of the box because the kernel is too old for 2024 hardware. And yeah i figured out why and know a way to fix it, i just cant be bothered to spend all that time to fix the very first step of setting up the OS in an OS that claims to work out of the box.

I'm not sure that's a fair point given you had picked your hardware.

If it was a specialised RAID controller in windows you needed to jump through other hoops to get working as the system drive driver disk, etc, it wouldn't be considered okay to blame Windows if you didn't want to do the working solution, or if you'd ignored hardware you could have chosen instead that would have made it easy.

At the end of the day you could buy a linux supported NIC for probably £20 - even on windows trying to use PSRV2 controllers requires buying a new bluetooth adapter for motherboard bluetooh chipset that are incompatible with the controllers.

For your solution, you could have built a custom kernel to gain support for your hardware, which is involved but would be of huge stability and performance benefit long term or used another linux supported NIC or wireless NIC, even just temporarily to get through updates.

 

[Sushi_Combo]

I'm sorry Mint didn't work out, it's usually one of the better ones out there, especially for new users.

 

[darrylgorn]

You'll need a Celeron 900mhz to get the most out of Linux.

 

[Brakum]

i mean, no matter the hardware Mint would be easy for me to use, I've made suggestions in order for you to use it as a learning experience but that's not for everybody, stick to the speak and spell.

i'm reviewing your posts and honestly i see no suggestions at all. You've been essentially saying you're computer illiterate and stick to windows since your first post.

 

[Unknown?]

Because your family and friends have computers where mint works as intended out of the box. I'm not saying mint is hard, im saying i had a terrible experience with it, because it didnt work as advertised because it's outdated for my hardware. I dont think the chances of your family being happy with it would be high if they turned on their pc and had no internet no matter what, they'd call you and you'd do some research and figure out why and then come over with kernel 8.10 in an usb stick and fix it.

Sure but your statement is incorrect regardless. It's easy and works for 99% of people. I'm sure you could have gotten a special install that had newer kernals too before installation.

 

[Brakum]

I'm not sure that's a fair point given you had picked your hardware.

What do you mean? I didnt build this PC for mint. It's just my PC and i decided to try it on another drive

 

[PaintTinJr]

What do you mean?

The motherboard model reads like this was a self-build PC, meaning at the point of buying the hardware you could have checked for support for more than Windows. It is something I definitely do, and in some cases would knowingly choose a mobo with windows only features knowing I would need another solution for linux, such as buying another wireless or wired NIC

 

[TheSHEEEP]

It probably scared me away forever. I tried three distros in the past 24h. beginner friendly ones. I'd be fine with it taking longer than windows, once it's setup it would be okay i thought, and i'd always keep windows in case i need it. I spent a few hours on each and didnt manage to achieve what i would with windows in the first 5 minutes.

Started with mint which seemed like a good start.
Installed it and no internet, ethernet plugged in and nothing, checked wifi, nothing. Didn't find any connections at all. Did some research and apparently my hardware is too new. My network chip requires the 6.10 kernel and mint only has 6.8.

Someone suggested i try nobara which has the 6.12 kernel. I did
Installed it, was connected to the internet but it said limited connectivity on both ethernet and wifi, which was essentially like not being connected at all, couldn't do anything with it, couldn't open a web page, nothing. I tried to do mobile hotspot which surprisingly worked for some reason. Did some stuff, rebooted my PC and now it cant connect even to the mobile hotspot, just got stuck in authentication forever. I left it at that and went to work.

Came back from work and decided to try manjaro.
At first i was extremely pleased that my internet just worked right away. First thing i did was install discord so i could joing the manjaro or linux discords to get help for whatever i needed. Downloaded it through their tool. Started it and it says it needs an update. It wont open without it. Apparently this has been a problem for years lookiung at reddit threads etcetera. Tried some fixes but they either didnt work for me at all, or we're just outdated like a download link to download it outside the manjaro tool but that link no longer worked.

So i gave up. Could i have found solutions to all those problems? Evntually probably, but who has that kind of time. I still want to be able to move away from windows eventually, please valve make it happen, but three days ago i was a believer in steamOS, now i'm not, but hopefully im wrong.

Remember: It took you months or years to get decent with Windows.
Being able to solve issues like yours (which are extremely rare, btw - I've been exclusively on Linux for almost a decade now on many PCs and laptops and never had internet not work) reliably takes weeks or months of experience (eg. Discord packages outside of flatpaks are almost always outdated for days or even weeks when a new Discord version drops, cause Discord sucks at maintaining their shit properly, in general I'd recommend going for Discord-canary on Linux).

Some people seem to expect to apply their Windows logic straight to a very different OS with easy results (not saying you do, btw, but I know lots of do). Nope. Not how this works.
Linux is different from Windows.
That's the entire point.
That's why it is so great - but that also means you won't just be able to have the same experience you are used to straight away or even after some hours of fiddling.
You can make Linux look very similar to Windows to get similar workflows. But you'll never get it to be the same under the hood - thankfully.

If you want Linux to work ootb for you guaranteed, the only reasonable options are pre-installed or doing very thorough research for the vital hardware parts beforehand.
Even without, you can generally expect everything to work (unless its straight up bleeding edge), but every now and again, someone will have some rare thing that makes it not so.

You got very unlucky and that sucks. But if you really want to get rid of that Microsoft bloatware called Windows, you'll have to swallow that pill and just dig in until it clicks.
If you got no patience for that, it's back to the pre-installed option.

 

[Brakum]

The motherboard model reads like this was a self-build PC, meaning at the point of buying the hardware you could have checked for support for more than Windows. It is something I definitely do, and in some cases would knowingly choose a mobo with windows only features knowing I would need another solution for linux, such as buying another wireless or wired NIC

I wasnt even thinking of trying linux when i built the PC. Not that it even matters, they all work. It doesnt work on mint, it works on other distros. But mint specifically makes the claim that it is the OS that works out of the box. It was perfectly supported in manjaro for instance out of the box.

 

[Brakum]

Remember: It took you months or years to get decent with Windows.
Being able to solve issues like yours (which are extremely rare, btw - I've been exclusively on Linux for almost a decade now on many PCs and laptops and never had internet not work) reliably takes weeks or months of experience (eg. Discord packages outside of flatpaks are almost always outdated for days or even weeks when a new Discord version drops, cause Discord sucks at maintaining their shit properly, in general I'd recommend going for Discord-canary on Linux).

Some people seem to expect to apply their Windows logic straight to a very different OS with easy results (not saying you do, btw, but I know lots of do). Nope. Not how this works.
Linux is different from Windows.
That's the entire point.
That's why it is so great - but that also means you won't just be able to have the same experience you are used to straight away or even after some hours of fiddling.
You can make Linux look very similar to Windows to get similar workflows. But you'll never get it to be the same under the hood - thankfully.

If you want to Linux work ootb for you, the only reasonable options are pre-installed or doing very thorough research for the vital hardware parts beforehand.
Even without, you can generally expect everything to work (unless its straight up bleeding edge), but every now and again, someone will have some rare thing that makes it not so.

You got very unlucky and that sucks. But if you really want to get rid of that Microsoft bloatware called Windows, you'll have to swallow that pill and just dig in until it clicks.
If you got no patience for that, it's back to the pre-installed option.

I dont think that's fair. I dont have to know windows to fix things in windows. If i dont know, i'll google it and fix it. Same with android, what do i know about android? Nothing, nor do i care, i dont use my phone for much, but if i have an issue, i google it and fix it, and that's linux. And yes googling it i found a solution too for mint. But i just couldnt be bothered that to fix the very first step of an OS setup would require me to go back and forth between two PC's. It's not necessarily that it was hard, i didnt say once that linux is hard in this entire thred, it's that it's cumbersome and time consuming, or can be, im sure mint works perfectly fine out of the box for most people. Same with discord on manjaro, did i find a solution? yes, but i had to spend 5-10minutes to fix the very first thing i installed? Dont wanna find out what's next, maybe it'll be smooth sailing, maybe not. And the reddit threads i found about this problem where from years ago which is just a bad sign, they offer you an easy way to install discord but it has been broken for years and i need to do some workaround.

 

[PaintTinJr]

I wasnt even thinking of trying linux when i built the PC. Not that it even matters, they all work. It doesnt work on mint, it works on other distros. But mint specifically makes the claim that it is the OS that works out of the box. It was perfectly supported in manjaro for instance out of the box.

But that all comes down to a Kernel newness or in some cases legal issues by which the NIC card manufacturer or OEM can't provide linux drivers and using a software wrapper around a windows driver binary is used to interface the underlying hardware with Linux.

Companies like Lenovo and HP make a big deal out of their higher end laptops like Thinkpads and ProBooks having full support for enterprise Linux distros like RedHat and its free community version Fedora, for decades, so this problem with hardware support on non-enterprise networking chipsets isn't a new or unexpected issue IMO.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

I dont think that's fair. I dont have to know windows to fix things in windows. If i dont know, i'll google it and fix it. Same with android, what do i know about android? Nothing, nor do i care, i dont use my phone for much, but if i have an issue, i google it and fix it, and that's linux. And yes googling it i found a solution too for mint. But i just couldnt be bothered that to fix the very first step of an OS setup would require me to go back and forth between two PC's. It's not necessarily that it was hard, i didnt say once that linux is hard in this entire thred, it's that it's cumbersome and time consuming, or can be, im sure mint works perfectly fine out of the box for most people. Same with discord on manjaro, did i find a solution? yes, but i had to spend 5-10minutes to fix the very first thing i installed? Dont wanna find out what's next, maybe it'll be smooth sailing, maybe not. And the reddit threads i found about this problem where from years ago which is just a bad sign, they offer you an easy way to install discord but it has been broken for years and i need to do some workaround.

Yeah, if that is your approach to things, Linux is not for you.
It is for those willing to invest the time to get an efficiency, control and lack of BS out of it you couldn't with Windows.
Beyond closed boxes like the Steam Deck, it is very much a git gud OS, and it demands & rewards accordingly.

It has gotten absurdly more easy over the years, but I don't think any distro will ever reach the plug-and-play readiness of Windows.
And frankly, I don't want it to. It is as good as it is because it doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator and I don't want that to change.

You cannot seriously expect an issue on a Linux distro (no matter which one) to be solved by a quick Google in every single case.
How could that work? Linux isn't monolithic like Windows - apart from the kernel. And even with the same kernel, different distros can behave differently. There is one Windows, but there are hundreds (if not more) Linux's.
Different Linux distros offer different starting experiences (as you found out lol), but they all need you to set up things the way you like them and in some cases fix some stuff for you.

Google also sucks, I'd just ask AIs for Linux-concerning questions, as there you can already provide the context necessary within the question.
Or go straight to the OS's forums or places like https://unix.stackexchange.com/ .

 

[Brakum]

Yeah, if that is your approach to things, Linux is not for you.
It is for those willing to invest the time to get an efficiency, control and lack of BS out of it you couldn't with Windows.
Beyond closed boxes like the Steam Deck, it is very much a git gud OS, and it demands & rewards accordingly.

It has gotten absurdly more easy over the years, but I don't think any distro will ever reach the plug-and-play readiness of Windows.
And frankly, I don't want it to. It is as good as it is because it doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator and I don't want that to change.

You cannot seriously expect an issue on a Linux distro (no matter which one) to be solved by a quick Google in every single case.
How could that work? Linux isn't monolithic like Windows - apart from the kernel. And even with the same kernel, different distros can behave differently. There is one Windows, but there are hundreds (if not more) Linux's.
Different Linux distros offer different starting experiences (as you found out lol), but they all need you to set up things the way you like them and in some cases fix some stuff for you.

Google also sucks, I'd just ask AIs for Linux-concerning questions, as there you can already provide the context necessary within the question.

I dont know why you're saying things like google sucks and i cant expect to find problems by googling things as if i had compolained about that. I didnt, doing that WORKED, perfectly fine. It's the solution that was cumbersome and time consuming, not finding the answer, that was as straight forward as on windows pretty much. And beyond that there is discord. Finding a solution to any linux problem is not something i'd be worried about.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

It's the solution that was cumbersome and time consuming

I don't know what to tell you, man. "Uninstall the bad Discord package, get flatpak, install a better one" wouldn't take me 5-10 minutes. Maybe 2, at max? And I don't even need to open anything other than a terminal (or the pamac UI, if I have flatpak plugin).
But that is because I know what to do already and have done it before.

But that's exactly what I'm talking about.
It takes time to get used to how things are done on Linux. For example, "just download this thing here" from some old Reddit post is not something I'd ever fall for on Linux - before I switched, I'd have done exactly what you did. Because "click here in a browser, download the thing, install" is just the Windows routine.
If you are new to how things are done on Linux, what do you expect? Of course it'll take you longer. Doesn't have to stay that way, though.

 

[rm082e]

Linux as a viable replacement for Windows in a gaming machine seems like String Theory to me - an interesting idea that people have been working on for many years, that probably won't every work out in the real world.

SteamOS is great on the Steam Deck. I'm sure it will be fine on other highly specific hardware like the other upcoming handhelds. But it's probably never going to be a 1:1 replacement for desktop gaming PCs where there's this huge range of hardware people could be using.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Linux as a viable replacement for Windows in a gaming machine seems like String Theory to me - an interesting idea that people have been working on for many years, that probably won't every work out in the real world.

Been doing it for over 5 years.
You have to compromise on not being able to run a few games - mostly just those with kernel level anti-cheat which of course only works on Windows. But other than that? I've yet to run into an issue that wasn't quite easily solvable.
It's really down to which games you want to play - if it happens to be those, then yeah, tough luck (or dual boot). If not, all good.

But as I said before, if you expect it to be the same as Windows and behave the same way Windows does or to not struggle in the beginning, you'll be in for a very surprising ride.
People are fine struggling in games they are new to - but something orders of magnitude more complex like an OS is supposed to be different? Press X.

 

[rm082e]

Been doing it for over 5 years.
You have to compromise on not being able to run a few games - mostly just those with kernel level anti-cheat which of course only works on Windows. But other than that? I've yet to run into an issue that wasn't quite easily solvable.
It's really down to which games you want to play - if it happens to be those, then yeah, tough luck (or dual boot). If not, all good.

But as I said before, if you expect it to be the same as Windows and behave the same way Windows does or to not struggle in the beginning, you'll be in for a very surprising ride.
People are fine struggling in games they are new to - but something orders of magnitude more complex like an OS is supposed to be different? Press X.

Yeah, I'm not saying it doesn't work at all. I'm saying the idea that a "normie" like me is going to install the OS, install Steam, and play every game without any additional hassles over Windows is not going to happen.

For me, any additional level of work beyond what I have with Windows is just not going to be worth it.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Yeah, I'm not saying it doesn't work at all. I'm saying the idea that a "normie" like me is going to install the OS, install Steam, and play every game without any additional hassles over Windows is not going to happen.

For me, any additional level of work beyond what I have with Windows is just not going to be worth it.

It wasn't worth it to me either, until I finally got too pissed at one Windows shenanigan too much. The final straw, if you will
I also use my PC for work as a coder, so I had higher incentives to be less annoyed by my OS and more efficient to begin with.

Now I'm very glad that happened - but yeah, if you aren't at that state (yet), you are probably right it won't be worth it to you.

 

[Brakum]

I don't know what to tell you, man. "Uninstall the bad Discord package, get flatpak, install a better one" wouldn't take me 5-10 minutes. Maybe 2, at max? And I don't even need to open anything other than a terminal (or the pamac UI, if I have flatpak plugin).
But that is because I know what to do already and have done it before.

But that's exactly what I'm talking about.
It takes time to get used to how things are done on Linux. For example, "just download this thing here" from some old Reddit post is not something I'd ever fall for on Linux - before I switched, I'd have done exactly what you did. Because "click here in a browser, download the thing, install" is just the Windows routine.
If you are new to how things are done on Linux, what do you expect? Of course it'll take you longer. Doesn't have to stay that way, though.

Discord was the more minor issue. The bigger issue was not having internet with the previous two distros which required me to go to windows or a second pc to get a new kernel. Discord was just ugh, third distro im trying and third time that the very first thing i try to do doesnt work, and it has been an issue for years and i dont wanna find out what else might be broken.

If i had encountered those problems 1 or two hours in after i did a bunch of stuff then i would just have fixed them. But three distros that are supposed to be noob friendly and just work, and they all fail at the very first thing i do. And those are all things that arent because i messed up. Discord i assume is just an issue for everyone on manjaro given the countless reddit threads and manjaro forum threads over the years, and the other two is an issue with outdated software on those distros.

 

[Trilobit]

I ran Lubuntu on a potato PC and it worked pretty good, but I had to reinstall it often after I tried installing some software on it. Ubuntu should be better. I wouldn't want it to be my main OS though as Linux assumes you know something about terminals and commands. I think I'll install some super lightweight distro on my new laptop some day as it's fun to tinker around.

 

[Wolzard]

dude, the problem the guy is facing here is with internet drivers. This isn't a usability or knowledge problem, it's a software problem and one that should be solved.

Linux can be as user friendly as windows, and it typically is! The problem is that when you need the computer to do what you bought it for (run applications) it's hit-or-miss outside of gaming with non-anticheat games. Having internet drivers not support the fucking hardware you run when Windows works OOTB with them is not exactly very user friendly, at all.

I've had problems with network drivers on Windows too. If you don't have the executables on hand, some motherboards or network cards won't work. This improved in Windows 10, when it started to download some through Windows update, but not every card works.

It has also happened that the driver works for Windows 7, but not 10, especially with notebooks. WiFi network cards are the devil incarnate.

Nowadays this is less common. It is likely that the OP has a Broadcom or Intel network card, which are proprietary and need to be installed separately (in Mint it is in the driver manager).

 

[polybius80]

Msi x870 tomahawk wifi

well apparently 6.11 kernel indeed fix the problem, as fedora users with that kernel mentions works without problem out of the box, a very weird case in the case of ethernet, if you have it installed you can use a cheap usb wifi like the tp-link that are very small to update the kernel

 

[polybius80]

It happens on windows except it doesnt happen is what you're saying?

it happens in windows that is why taking a case and generalize is misleading

I mean yes we are aware that things work on windows because manufacturers make sure they work on windows. But that doesnt matter. If i buy something i know it will work on windows period.

maybe you are a too young and have not yet experienced the hardware that was compatible with "one windows" but not with the "new windows"

If you bought a piece of hardware and came home and it just didnt work on windows you'd probably have a very good case to get a refund.

normally the hardware specify which version of windows it is compatible with and some require a specific patch, newer versions may not work or even newer patches may break compatibility and that is a huge problem when changing to newer versions of windows or simply update to a new patch

Because if it doesnt work on windows, it doesnt work anywhere so you got a product that doesnt work.

the product specify a version where it works, if MS changes things and make the hardware not working in new versions or require specific patch they are making a problem for the hardware maker and the user

for example your motherboard X870 for Wi-fi7 and bluetooth 5.4 requires specific windows 11 patch version to work

this is what it says
* 6GHz band support may depend on every country’s regulations and Wi-Fi 7 will be ready in Windows 11 version 24H2.
** The Bluetooth version may be updated, please refer to the Wi-Fi chipset vendor’s website for details. Bluetooth 5.4 will be ready in Windows 11 version 24H2.

for example that 24H2 patch generated a lot of problems like your usb scanner and printer that stopped working who is to blame there?, microsoft?, the hardware maker? if you find a printer that requires a certain minimum linux kernel to work then it is blame of "linux"?, the hardware maker?

If it doesnt work on windows because it's some mac thing or something, then i'm sure it is plastered all over the box that it's only mac compatible.

not if a patch in the future breaks the compatibility you can release a perfectly working hardware and MS can break the compatibility

 

[polybius80]

The market strongly disagrees. Linux is far from being the default for the average user.

the normal PC desktop laptop market, but for example android is widely used and chromebooks have their space

 

[rodrigolfp]

the Steam Deck is the only Linux PC that is even remotely decent, simply due to the fact that it is purpose designed for this specific system. the hardware inside, the software on it, it's all tailor made for it, and the Deck itself is a system focused on pretty much a single usecase as well, helping things further.
And I think people got a false hope due to Steam OS, that Linux can actually be useable now... it just isn't.

Even Steam OS will probably lead to many issues once people try to install it on a system that wasn't designed for it once they officially release it into the wild.

Not really. It's just Arch Linux that boots directly on Steam Big Picture mode (thing that you can also do on Windows) with some custom plugins.

When you use the desktop mode you will have almost the same experience as Manjaro, for example.

 

[Brakum]

maybe you are a too young and have not yet experienced the hardware that was compatible with "one windows" but not with the "new windows"

older hardware not being compatible with newer software happens everywhere. The opposite only happens on linux. Sure having a 2011 chip not working with windows 11 but that works with 10 can happen. But it'll never happen that it is too new for the newest version. You're not gonna buy hardware that released in 2024 be compatible with windows 10 but not 11. Just doesnt happen. Not with things like network chips.

No mobo manufacturer in the world would put your chip in their mobo in 2024 if it didnt work with windows 11.

 

[Miles708]

The problem with nerds is that the software they create is made by assholes for assholes. Really smart assholes, I admit, but still.

And people still wonder why Windows is the default. Nerds HATE standards

 

[Cryio]

If you're installing something modern like latest Fedora, latest Ubuntu (not LTS) or something like Endeavour (so it's Arch based), everything will mostly work out of the box.

Trying it on something like Intel's Lunar Lake CPUs tho ... still a tad early for that.

 

[xpresstuning]

You got the short stick.

 

[polybius80]

But it'll never happen that it is too new for the newest version.

you motherboard literally had a text that said that certain features will work in a future patch that wasn't available when the motherboard was available

You're not gonna buy hardware that released in 2024 be compatible with windows 10 but not 11. Just doesnt happen. Not with things like network chips.

No mobo manufacturer in the world would put your chip in their mobo in 2024 if it didnt work with windows 11.

yet part of the chipset may stop working with new patches, you clearly are unaware of the reality with hardware that stops working with each new patch in windows 11, 10, 7, etc, hardware manufactured need to release new driver or patches to fix it or the community will fix it this is why linux gets more and more support with newer kernel versions like in your case with a new kernel to work, is similar to a windows 11 requiring a specific patch for the hardware to work like your motherboard

I understand you think that way if this is your first PC

 

[Brakum]

you motherboard literally had a text that said that certain features will work in a future patch that wasn't available when the motherboard was available

Yes it will work better with drivers like i previously said. It's never gonna happen that your mobo network chip doesnt work at all.

yet part of the chipset may stop working with new patches, you clearly are unaware of the reality with hardware that stops working with each new patch in windows 11, 10, 7, etc, hardware manufactured need to release new driver or patches to fix it or the community will fix it this is why linux gets more and more support with newer versions like in your case with a new kernel in linux to work, is similar to a windows 11 requiring a specific patch for the hardware to work like your motherboard

I understand you think that way if this is your first PC

How many here had their internet completely stop working on windows due to a windows update? hands up. No one? Exactly. It never happens. When has someones mouse completely stopped working on windows due to a windows update? Anyone? What about keyboard? It just doesnt happen. An update might break something very temporarily, but never is it completely gonna make your hardware not work at all. Like a windows update might cause some issue with your latest nvidia drivers and now some games stopped working, or even all games, but is your graphics card gonna completely refuse to work at all you see on your monitor is no signal? Not gonna happen. And btw im not blaming linux, this is a mint issue which isnt updated for new hardware, it works fine in many other linux distros. I still think linux is great, dont get me wrong. I'm not criticizing linux. I'm criticizing distros who market themselves as beginner friendly, very easy, works out of the box, and then not even having support for hardware that released last year.

And i've been using PC's for 25 years.

 

[polybius80]

Yes it will work better with drivers like i previously said. It's never gonna happen that your mobo network chip doesnt work at all.

I think you should avoid "never gonna happen" it wont survive 2 minutes in a google search

How many here had their internet completely stop working on windows due to a windows update? hands up. No one? Exactly. It never happens.

here in neogaf? I dont know this is not a troubleshooting forum but you search in google and there are thousands results feel free to check each one if you want

When has someones mouse completely stopped working on windows due to a windows update? Anyone? What about keyboard? It just doesnt happen.

"it just doesnt happen" yet there are videos explaining how to fix this kind of problems



why they exist and have so many likes and people saying it worked for them if it doesn't happen?

there are even this kind of problems in MS support forums

Redirecting

An update might break something very temporarily, but never is it completely gonna make your hardware not work at all.

you hardware may stop working that is implied with the word "break"

"temporarily" that depends, there are hardware that remain unsupported after an update

for example with your motherboard a newer kernel fix the problem just like a windows 11 freshly installed may not support your hardware and may require an update with internet or a usb from another machine so what is the problem with linux then?

Like a windows update might cause some issue with your latest nvidia drivers and now some games stopped working, or even all games, but is your graphics card gonna completely refuse to work at all you see on your monitor is no signal? Not gonna happen.

windows has a safe graphics mode, linux distros too

And btw im not blaming linux, this is a mint issue which isnt updated for new hardware, it works fine in many other linux distros. I still think linux is great, dont get me wrong. I'm not criticizing linux. I'm criticizing distros who market themselves as beginner friendly, very easy, works out of the box, and then not even having support for hardware that released last year.

sure but the same happens in windows that also markets itself as working out of the box, this is something that happens with tech in general not a windows problem or a linux distro exclusively

 

[Tams]

It's the same for pretty much every single OSS project.

The developers only do enough for what they want. There's no market drive to make the software intuitive and attractive.

Companies trying to sell you the software's reason for existing is to make you buy it, so they (usually - monopolies excluded) put enormous effort into making it intuitive and attractive.

The worst part about OSS is that because it takes some effort to use it, adapt it, and get used to it; the community around it are among the worst fucking gatekeepers.

I often just pay up to daddy Gates et al. to get something that just works, looks good, and when I need help will only be met with idiots who spout buzzwords rather than the vitriol of the OSS community.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Yes it will work better with drivers like i previously said. It's never gonna happen that your mobo network chip doesnt work at all.

How many here had their internet completely stop working on windows due to a windows update? hands up. No one? Exactly. It never happens. When has someones mouse completely stopped working on windows due to a windows update? Anyone? What about keyboard? It just doesnt happen. An update might break something very temporarily, but never is it completely gonna make your hardware not work at all. Like a windows update might cause some issue with your latest nvidia drivers and now some games stopped working, or even all games, but is your graphics card gonna completely refuse to work at all you see on your monitor is no signal? Not gonna happen. And btw im not blaming linux, this is a mint issue which isnt updated for new hardware, it works fine in many other linux distros. I still think linux is great, dont get me wrong. I'm not criticizing linux. I'm criticizing distros who market themselves as beginner friendly, very easy, works out of the box, and then not even having support for hardware that released last year.

And i've been using PC's for 25 years.

Windows 11 updates on Lenovo laptop screw up my bluetooth drivers on the regular. I have to use a wired mouse because I can't be bothered to deal with that shit every time. I also had to change the Wi-Fi card for a new Windows 10 build because it was unsupported. On Windows XP I could not get a graphics card to work and had to disassemble before installing drivers using integrated graphics.

 

[jshackles]

Yes it will work better with drivers like i previously said. It's never gonna happen that your mobo network chip doesnt work at all.

Tell me you've only ever used pre-built Windows computers without telling me you've only ever used pre-built Windows computers