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I've wanted to switch to linux for a long time, so the last few days i've tried it. It was bad
- Thread starter Brakum
- Start date
A.Romero
Member
The Linux community (bless their hearts) has been trying to make Linux easy enough for most people but they have failed. Yes, it's the superior OS for many things but usability is not their strong point.
I have about 20 years experience working with computers and I prefer working with Windows, it just works most of the time. Maybe Linux is very competent once you get it working and it's stable as a fully updated PS3 but most of the times it takes a lot of effort and will to get it to that point.
One of my best friends has been very insistent in the last few months that Linux is the promised land and that it now works with games pretty well (I'm guessing through Proton). Because of our age it is now very difficult to find time to play together but a couple of weeks ago we found a window when everybody was available and we wanted to try Rivals. He couldn't get it to run. We just switchted to Helldivers.
If you have the time and the disposition everything is possible but if PC gaming can be erratic it is much more when playing on a Linux machine.
I have about 20 years experience working with computers and I prefer working with Windows, it just works most of the time. Maybe Linux is very competent once you get it working and it's stable as a fully updated PS3 but most of the times it takes a lot of effort and will to get it to that point.
One of my best friends has been very insistent in the last few months that Linux is the promised land and that it now works with games pretty well (I'm guessing through Proton). Because of our age it is now very difficult to find time to play together but a couple of weeks ago we found a window when everybody was available and we wanted to try Rivals. He couldn't get it to run. We just switchted to Helldivers.
If you have the time and the disposition everything is possible but if PC gaming can be erratic it is much more when playing on a Linux machine.
pudel
Member
Multiplayer games with their kernel level anticheats seems to be one of the biggest problems for linux gaming (for now)....yep. Thank god, I dont care for these games anymore.
In March we might see the first SteamOS for download available. I will definitely try it out than. I only need Windows for gaming right now. Anything else can be done perfectly by Linux (for my needs).
I build my own PC's, and for friends and family. Im sorry but it has never happend to me not have i heard about a wired connection not working on windows right away. Maybe you're building them wrong idk.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Yep, this is the unfortunate realization for many.
I think what I'll end up doing for my next build is just using the Windows 10 version that doesn't have any of the bloatware. I genuinely don't think there's a single thing I'm missing if I skip Windows 11. Proper HDR functionality, maybe, but then maybe that's not even fixed on W11.
I think what I'll end up doing for my next build is just using the Windows 10 version that doesn't have any of the bloatware. I genuinely don't think there's a single thing I'm missing if I skip Windows 11. Proper HDR functionality, maybe, but then maybe that's not even fixed on W11.
Crayon
Member
I am setting up the laptop of my 70 year old mother always with Linux Mint. She needs only a bit of office (Libre Office) and a web browser. But its way more safe, as she nearly cant do anything wrong.
That's what I go with in that situation. Never had an issue, myself. As long as I am playing family tech support, I just install mint LTS and never give them the admin password lol. Smooth sailin!
Not what i said. There are issues ALL the time. But is a network chip from this year ever not gonna work on the newst windows? Or will it ever break completely after a windows update and you have no way of accessing the internet? No it's not. Not that it's impossible, but it's so unlikely that might as well say it's never gonna happen because realistically it wont.
And it's not even some bug or drivers. It's simply there not being support on mint. It's not a linux issue. It's mint particularly.
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pudel
Member
There is a bit of a rule when you are using linux. Never buy the newest shit for yr pc. Buy stuff which is already one or two years on the market and try to avoid complete niche stuff. Otherwise you might run into these compatibility problems. Its open source after all...stuff needs a bit more time to be implemented.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Which is exactly the reason why there are over 600 Linux distros and about 500 in active development.
PaintTinJr
Member
Typically the problem happens when the integrated chipset or add-on NIC isn't part of the built-in approved hardware for Windows, and because most people don't bother with a DVD/Blu-ray drive anymore on a PC, the disc with the drivers is useless without a usb stick to download from the mobo/NIC card website and transfer, or without using usb data tethering with a smartphone to access the mobo/NIC website.
Windows is a lesser ball-ache even if it means disabling signed driver checks at boot time to selectively install an old x64 Windows XP/Vista/7 driver for a device like a printer, but the idea everything just works was a flat out lie back in the day of Windows 95, and still isn't fully true even now.
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But that's basically you, besides os stability and normal use.I am setting up the laptop of my 70 year old mother always with Linux Mint. She needs only a bit of office (Libre Office) and a web browser. But its way more safe, as she nearly cant do anything wrong.
We're not living in 95. Can you buy now or even in the last ten years, a newly released motherboard that has a network chip that doesnt work on the lastest windows? Not a mobo that is meant to be used on a regular desktop. Specialized hardware for other things might exist but that's not what we're talking about here.
When you're building a desktop PC for yourself you dont have to check if windows supports the chip in your motherboard. You just dont. If you say thats something you should do, that's a lie. You know it will work, no one would put a chip in their mobo that doesnt. It might not work because you got a damaged mobo or something, but it's not not gonna work because windows doesnt support it. Or anythinf else. Do you need to check if your 2024 mouse is gonna be compatible with windows 11? Or your 40 series gpu? No. You know it is because it always is.
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Crayon
Member
Wasn't @ you. Just adding to a series of posts above.
polybius80
Member
PaintTinJr
Member
Yes, IIRC in less than 10years I've sourced an ASrock mobo to build a friend's small business database/file server with an Core i3 and the chipset wasn't supported on Windows 8 out of the box, and needed drivers off a optical disc and had to use usb data tethering to download the chipset and NIC driver.
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jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
You're massively conflating "works" and "works out of the box without any manual intervention required". So, to answer your question yes there have probably been hundreds of motherboards (maybe more) released in the last 10 years that didn't have drivers built into the standard Windows installation at the time of their release.
Here is the top Google result I got from searching for "Windows install missing network adapter"
Windows10 network adapter missing after clean install - Windows 10 Help Forums
Hello, a friend of mine installed the latest windows10 iso on his computer today. but now after the install is completed he is in big trouble because there is no network adapter. he streamed with the phone and i tried helping with a few ideas as sfc scann
www.tenforums.com
The fix for this is of course the same as it is for Linux: use another PC to put the correct drivers on removable storage, copy it to your offline PC, and install the drivers then you can get online. The issue only really comes up with network card drivers, because lots of other stuff Windows can make work using generic drivers, then once your online it can grab the latest drivers from the Windows Update Driver Store. BTW, Linux does this too if drivers are available! It's why you can plug that mouse or 40 series GPU into your PC and have it work almost like magic, because the Driver Store gets updated more or less constantly - it was built by Microsoft so that people didn't have to go hunt around various websites to find the right drivers for your stuff, which used to be a massive pain!
But - It's not magic. It's Microsoft leveraging their massive clout and infrastructure to put this all together with major manufacturers over decades of time.
David B
An Idiot
I got same thing with linux as the OP posted. I'm just not good at Linux at all. The only few I get internet with right away is Ubuntu, Mint, and Zorin OS. I always got internet right away with them. But overall with Linux systems the installing is a big freaking headache to me. Also installing applications programs is another big headache, I have no idea how to do it, no matter how much I read or who I talk to, it's like but where does this go and this part, and this, install where, this goes there but this where? It was always a big thing of what goes where, I don't know, no idea. So overall Linux is extremely hard to get used to because installing programs is just way way too hard on it. I just sticks to Windows because you can use it as a game machine and a modern computer.
Jinzo Prime
Member
Some distros like Ubuntu do a good job at showing you what you have installed with the software center. But overall, Linux has a bajillion ways to install software and yes it can get very confusing. I'm just now starting to get it, there is a kind of logic to it.
What's crazy to me is how well Android, iOS, and Mac OS handles apps. It's the easiest thing ever in those systems. They don't spread program files everywhere like Windows does, which is great as well.
Except that if you actually read that thread to where it was solved, that wasnt the issue. The issue was OP had it disable in BIOS.You're massively conflating "works" and "works out of the box without any manual intervention required". So, to answer your question yes there have probably been hundreds of motherboards (maybe more) released in the last 10 years that didn't have drivers built into the standard Windows installation at the time of their release.
Here is the top Google result I got from searching for "Windows install missing network adapter"
Windows10 network adapter missing after clean install - Windows 10 Help Forums
Hello, a friend of mine installed the latest windows10 iso on his computer today. but now after the install is completed he is in big trouble because there is no network adapter. he streamed with the phone and i tried helping with a few ideas as sfc scann
The fix for this is of course the same as it is for Linux: use another PC to put the correct drivers on removable storage, copy it to your offline PC, and install the drivers then you can get online. The issue only really comes up with network card drivers, because lots of other stuff Windows can make work using generic drivers, then once your online it can grab the latest drivers from the Windows Update Driver Store. BTW, Linux does this too if drivers are available! It's why you can plug that mouse or 40 series GPU into your PC and have it work almost like magic, because the Driver Store gets updated more or less constantly - it was built by Microsoft so that people didn't have to go hunt around various websites to find the right drivers for your stuff, which used to be a massive pain!
But - It's not magic. It's Microsoft leveraging their massive clout and infrastructure to put this all together with major manufacturers over decades of time.
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And some people think if you have to do all that to fix up Windows, why not just use Linux and be in more control?
kevboard
Member
to which I'd say: because Linux is trash...
you don't need "more control" than what you already have in Windows. Windows isn't a closed up walled garden that needs to be jailbroken to be under your control.
modifying Windows to exactly your liking instead of switching to Linux is by far the better way to go for 99% of PC users.
On Windows you get the compatibility to more programs and games than any other OS on the planet, as well as superior hardware support (*caugh* Nvidia drivers *caugh*).
why give that up just because you have a handful of issues with it that can be fixed faster and more easily than it ever would be to switch to any Linux distro?
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And some think Windows is trash. Depends on what issues you have faced and hoops you had to go through to deal with those issues. Sometimes it's just preference. To each tier own. Just watch out for the direction MS is taking it. Sure seems they just keep taking control away.
Codeblew
Member
Yeah I hear you. I have been dual-booting Linux and windows for many years now. The past year, I only booted into my windows partition maybe 5 times (don't remember exactly). At least a couple of those times was because I thought to myself, "Hey, haven't booted up windows in some time, maybe I should run updates to get caught up and see if it sucks less now". My next build, I am not going to even have a windows partition. If I want to mess with windows, I will do it in a VM with Linux as the host.
Since you are using live-cd's, find a distro that you like and set it up as a dual boot setup the next time you get a new PC. Just make sure you install windows first to get rid of some potential headaches.
Also, go AMD (mobo/chip/gfx) and pick a distro that keeps up with updated kernels (arch linux is one) if you are going full Linux just to save yourself some potential headaches.
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kevboard
Member
sure, but I don't think Linux is preferable to any PC user over Windows unless the PC is used exclusively for very specific purposes.
if you use your PC as an actual Personal Computer at home, with games on it, with maybe the whole family doing different stuff on it, or if you use a broad variety of programs and games... there's just no way Linux can be the preferred option. the compatibility issues alone make that an absolute nightmare.
Windows' issues are broadly nitpicks if we're being honest. like how Windows search can be a bit annoying... like... ok... how awful... or I gotta press a button combo to skip the Microsoft login when installing it...
Linux issues meanwhile are more like "fuck my GPU doesn't work right", "this program doesn't work with the distro I'm using" or "this is the 5th game now that won't run, let's look in online forums for solutions for an hour"
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Starbuck2907
Member
iMessage either works or is coming soon through the phone app. I’m not sure about airplay. I bet there are workarounds.
pudel
Member
Nah...my main issue with windows are privacy issues. I once firewalled my whole windows partition with this little program (https://www.binisoft.org/wfc.php) which works like "little snitch" on mac and shows you what files need to "call home" (which you can allow than or deny). And dude, its crazy...how many shit wants to do that constantly...and lots of these are windows files. On linux you close yr browser and you have silence. It just feels good.
existensmaximum
Member
And GUIs...
Drell
Member
It's so easy to blame "nerds" for not complaining to "standards" while these same people juste made some together before MS came and impose their own through money and windows monopoly...
The big difference is, in schools (UK for example) they teach you IT on Windows PCs. So you are more likely to pick up a Windows Laptop/PC over a Linux OS. Especially if you're into playing PC games, you're 100% more likely to pick up a Windows PC over anything else.
Linux however, you will need to go out of your way and teach yourself how to use it and to some people that might not be worth the hassle after using Windows for such a long time.
Drell
Member
That's exactly what he says: You were being formated to prefer windows but just because education is promoting it more doesn't mean it's the definitve way to make a user friendly OS.
Miles708
Member
pudel
Member
As Elon Musk would say: They dont hate Windows enough yet!
Windows, like Mac is just a hell of a lot more user friendly out of the box. The MAJORITY of people in the world just want to turn something on and use it and not deal with anything in between unfortunately.
It's why the majority of internet users still don't use adblockers as they don't know what the hell it is.
Also, how the majority still use Google Chrome as they probably don't know about any other browser and just go "Oh I use Google Chrome because it's made by Google and they're a big company so I trust them".
As Elon Musk would say: They dont hate Windows enough yet!
Just wait, soon we'll have a X OS.
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CandyCrushSagat
Neo Member
You go?
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Phone app sucks. There is no work around for AirPlay.
Unknown?
Member
Then go on Google and find ones where that isn't the case... People IN THIS THREAD have told you they had problems with Windows but you don't address them and TONS of people all over have had it with a quick search.
When I do a clean Install of Win 11 when I get to connecting to the internet I can't
When I do a clean install of Win 11 It goes through the install but when I get to connecting to the inter the box is grayed out
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Then go on Google and find ones where that isn't the case... People IN THIS THREAD have told you they had problems with Windows but you don't address them and TONS of people all over have had it with a quick search.
When I do a clean Install of Win 11 when I get to connecting to the internet I can't
When I do a clean install of Win 11 It goes through the install but when I get to connecting to the inter the box is grayed outh30434.www3.hp.com
That’s a clear cut case of missing drivers after a clean install of Windows from an ISO, a problem most users won’t face since most aren’t going to be reinstalling Windows from an ISO file.
In this case, the drivers can be downloaded straight from the manufacturer. Simple fix, zero command prompts entered etc.
not exactly the same problems the guy you’re responding to is talking about.
Unknown?
Member
How would he download the drivers without another device if he couldn't connect with his device?
It was the most recent ISO from Microso
ft, so it isn't a matter of what MOST people will do. Most people won't have the problem the OP had and he didn't even have it on some of the distros he tried. Even then, in Mint, it was a simple fix that wouldn't take much time to fix.
The point is not that it's a 1:1 problem(they can be found though), it's that the premise of this topic(Windows just works 100%) has been proven false in just this thread. He said no one would have missing network drivers in 2024 and there are, ISO or not. Google further reinforces Windows having fresh installation issues with tutorials on how to fix a USB mouse not working out of the box.
A lack of research and only anecdotal evidence does not make a good premise.
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ThatPolishGuy
Member
I never had any issues on Zorin OS, Ubuntu Budgie and CachyOS.
I've been even using my old laptop with Nvidia GPU like 4 years ago out of the box on Zorin OS without using terminal at all, just like Windows. It has Wine and Proton deep in OS so you can ran exe files through perfixes- looks like Windows too. Apps through Flatpak already installed downloadable from Software App. Deb files install just like exe files. Did game on it no problem.
Then Ive been using Ubuntu Budgie for like 2-3 years. On an Intel GPU laptop, never did much gaming on it. But user experience wise and workflow was much better than Windows for me. And by then I had mastered simple commands in command line and set my OS to use Flatpak if I didn't want to use Software App or wanted the newest versions of apps.
I've been test running CachyOS for a few months on my new gaming PC with RX 6700XT+Ryzen 5 7600.
It was also out of the box experience.
I did dual boot with Windows then.
Now I'm on Win10 only, and did run some Game Pass on it since it doesn't run on Linux.
But besides that and that you can't play MP games because of kernel level anticheats that don't work on Linux. It was a really pleasant experience, people blow some issues waay out of proportion.
I also had issues with my old gaming laptop on Windows, basically WiFi wasn't working without downloading drivers of manufacturer motherboard site and I didn't have a LAN cable then - and it did run on Zorin out of the box. This stuff can happen on any OS, I guess.
Anyways, I really don't want to repeat myself - look up the other Linux gaming thread I linked in this thread if you're more curious about whats what.
I've been even using my old laptop with Nvidia GPU like 4 years ago out of the box on Zorin OS without using terminal at all, just like Windows. It has Wine and Proton deep in OS so you can ran exe files through perfixes- looks like Windows too. Apps through Flatpak already installed downloadable from Software App. Deb files install just like exe files. Did game on it no problem.
Then Ive been using Ubuntu Budgie for like 2-3 years. On an Intel GPU laptop, never did much gaming on it. But user experience wise and workflow was much better than Windows for me. And by then I had mastered simple commands in command line and set my OS to use Flatpak if I didn't want to use Software App or wanted the newest versions of apps.
I've been test running CachyOS for a few months on my new gaming PC with RX 6700XT+Ryzen 5 7600.
It was also out of the box experience.
I did dual boot with Windows then.
Now I'm on Win10 only, and did run some Game Pass on it since it doesn't run on Linux.
But besides that and that you can't play MP games because of kernel level anticheats that don't work on Linux. It was a really pleasant experience, people blow some issues waay out of proportion.
I also had issues with my old gaming laptop on Windows, basically WiFi wasn't working without downloading drivers of manufacturer motherboard site and I didn't have a LAN cable then - and it did run on Zorin out of the box. This stuff can happen on any OS, I guess.
Anyways, I really don't want to repeat myself - look up the other Linux gaming thread I linked in this thread if you're more curious about whats what.
Hudo
Member
Ironically, I had trouble playing older games like Warhammer: Dark Omen and Freelancer on Windows 11. Had no trouble running them via Lutris on Fedora.
Minsc
Gold Member
I love Deck's SteamOS (have 0 issues with it) and can't wait until there's more laptop/desktop support of it from Valve. I could totally see tossing Windows entirely at some point when there's hardware sold at retail that runs it.
It just is so much more streamlined than Windows, it's not even comparable.
Even with 32GB of RAM and more VRAM, Windows gets sluggish. I should have gone 64 or 128GB of RAM...
It just is so much more streamlined than Windows, it's not even comparable.
Even with 32GB of RAM and more VRAM, Windows gets sluggish. I should have gone 64 or 128GB of RAM...
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quoting myselfThen go on Google and find ones where that isn't the case... People IN THIS THREAD have told you they had problems with Windows but you don't address them and TONS of people all over have had it with a quick search.
When I do a clean Install of Win 11 when I get to connecting to the internet I can't
When I do a clean install of Win 11 It goes through the install but when I get to connecting to the inter the box is grayed out
I have a simple yes or no question for you.
Do you, when you build your PC, look at what chip your mobo has, and check if it's compatible with the latest window? If the answer is no then that means that the likelihood of it not working is so infinitely small that it's not even worth bothering to check if your part is gonna work, you just take it for granted that it will. And i bet that answer is no. Just like when you buy a mouse, or keyboard, you dont check if it works, or ram, or gpu, or monitor...
Unknown?
Member
Cool. The same problems happen and are infinitely small on all OSs.
So the answer is no you dont check because you know it will work?
BlackTron
Member
My style of dual booting is leave drive hanging out the side of the case and swap it out. So I have never worried about a dual boot problem in decades!