They could pay that company for that software/code and then not use it. This kind of thing happens all the time when a publisher no longer wants or needs to publish something they previously thought they would need.
Iwata updates position on region-locking at Nintendo investor Q&A
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
They could pay that company for that software/code and then not use it. This kind of thing happens all the time when a publisher no longer wants or needs to publish something they previously thought they would need.
Supplied by a chip that manages security. Most likely signed on a contract that is very specific for its use.
Of course, that is only part one. What about agreement with distributors/stores that the product would be secure and region-locked? They could resign the deals, but it might be costly for them.
Maybe they don't want to. Maybe they figured it wasn't cost effective.
Region locking is clearly a business decision, not a consumer one. Also optional doesn't mean most will have it or a weird mishmash. Sony has optional Region Lock and P4A is the only game I've heard of that uses it. At least with optional region locking, many games won't be locked. If they want this option for business reasons, at least don't force it on everyone.
InsaneZero
Member
Nintendo introduced region-locking to their handhelds with the DSi (ignoring consoles for now since that's always been region-locked), which was also the first Nintendo handheld to have a digital storefront. I think they had either a misunderstanding of how localized digital stores worked or did not want to put in the effort of handling digital and physical games differently in terms of region. Just my guess.
Cheesemeister
Member
I don't see how a special security chip would be needed to compare numbers representing region on the hardware and software.
toddhunter
Member
I figure it was from the same line of thinking that made a hand held that is uncomfortable to hold in your hands.
I do think a lot of this has to do with nintendo having a hard time with modern console OSes, Storefronts and Online. Hopefully their new account relationship with DeNa helps sort this out for their next systems.
PirateKing
Junior Member
What? People were defending region locking?
Cheesemeister
Member
Sony led the way by advertising the PS3 as region-free, turning Atlus into a pariah when it went and region-locked a game on a system that had until then been effectively region-free.
InsaneZero
Member
You might want to stop showcasing your ignorance on how region locking works. A dedicated chip makes no sense even in theory.
Iwata's response does strike me as sincere, if only for the fact that he bothered to even suggest that Nintendo's region-locking practices was not consumer-friendly in the first place. Typically, Nintendo reframes their terrible decisions so that it appears to be for the consumers' benefit, so remarking otherwise (especially in a non-consumer-facing business meeting) is rather uncharacteristic of them. Although the proof would still lie in the pudding, and we still have to wait until next year at the earliest until we actually get to see it for ourselves.
I didn't say it was a special "security chip", just a chip that handles the security. It could just be the CPU for all we know, but it has a region-lock clause in its use.
I'm not saying that Nintendo shouldn't remove legion-locking (they shouldn't have included it in the first place.), but it's more akin to this...
Lets say you setup a special password system that incorporated numbers, symbols, capitals and letters requiring one of each and tell all your clients that this is what is going to happen. You sign very good contracts in your favour for the usage. You use it for 2 years.
After a while, you realize you don't need one of each. However, you're no longer as profitable as you once were.
Do you dare change it, even though you signed contracts with said companies already that this is what you were going to do? What happens if only a couple of them agree to it, and others demand other changes as well before signing? It would be pretty worthless to only have a couple of them to agree to the changes.
Maybe keeping status-quo would be the best solution? That's what Nintendo needs to analyze in these situations, and why lawyers are so hated (on both sides).
krypt0nian
Banned
Again, what specific deals? Until they are noted, they are again message board fodder. Don't assume there are those issues.
Modders have already shown this CAN be turned off. Firmware.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Actually, it does cause problems in certain games. MM3D, for example, won't work with regionthree/four and probably never will.Doesn't seem to be that much of an issue for 3DS modders...
SatoAilDarko
Member
Wait, has anyone actually made the Wii U region-free?
That looks like something out of a pornoDoesn't seem to be that much of an issue for 3DS modders...
You're basically arguing that there are no issues despite Iwata saying otherwise. I don't see how you can tell others not to make assumptions when that's exactly what you're doing. The truth is that we don't know anything either way other than what Iwata stated in the quote.
Doesn't seem to be that much of an issue for 3DS modders...
No, like legal ones.
These things have to be stated in the documentation and can't just be patched in willy-nilly
Pokemaniac
Member
I'm fairly certain the region lock as it currently exists is just a simple check that the Home menu runs before it allows you to start software. Not disagreeing with your overall point of it actually being a contract issue, but just want to make it clear that it is just an if statement that is part of the current system software and is trivial to remove from a technical perspective.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Don't play with my heart Iwata
krypt0nian
Banned
No I'm saying there are none until PROVEN otherwise. The onus of proof of policies are on the ones making such claims. I'm making zero assumptions of anything.
Why would I know the deals? And what does that matter if I do? It only matters to Nintendo what deals they signed. As a consumer, you'd love them gone. However, that doesn't mean someone else isn't gaining from them being there.
Modders also removed that from CD/DVD drives back in the day. That doesn't mean there weren't "reasons" back then why they used them in the first place.
PdotMichael
Banned
Well, region locking was the default setting for the 360. Getting a game region free was only possible if the game went through all green light processes in all regions.
InsaneZero
Member
Trying to argue how region-locking works would require that you have at least some rudimentary knowledge on how region-locking works.
Pro from Dover
Member
If I'm correct in my J business lingo, Iwata just said:
You're claiming that Iwata is lying to investors based on the fact that he didn't go into detail about internal issues so...
And why would that matter in this case? Have you thought of any productive counter-arguments to what I've said? Or are you just hellbent on being insulting?
krypt0nian
Banned
Again there are no deals until we hear them say there are. You're just assuming still. I.E. message board fodder. Until someone shows proof to the contrary there are no deal.
Or unicorns. Or pixies. Or anything else people can assume.
No he said there may be issues. What are they? I never said he was lying. Issues could be "we want to make more money"
Again I assume nothing, but you're putting words in my mouth.
Right. So what we know then is...
There is region-locking. Iwata said there are reasons. He didn't say they were hardware reasons (I did/assumed.).
Anything beyond this is just discussion or conjecture why that might be. Or why can't they just turn it off.
I'm just trying to explain what reasons might exist. Not that they do.
You're arguing that they don't exist until Nintendo proves otherwise.
Is that it and all?
This is the correct response to those quotes.
Because of course he was able to say something that sounded like yes but actually could also say no. So he gets some people off his butt but at the same time committing to nothing.
"Lets be positive going forward" Yes lets. I feel better.
Cheesemeister
Member
Do you know what 前向き means?
InsaneZero
Member
The problem with you trying to reason why Nintendo has implemented region-locking without having any understanding about how region-locking actually works is that it drags people into an unproductive conversation where you continue to elaborate on a guess that has no actual bearing on reality. You're doing this back and forth with people about how your analysis makes no sense and how you're trying to change it to make some sense which distracts from the stuff that is actually happening.
calc84maniac
Member
I assume there would have to be some infrastructure revamps to allow certain things like downloading updates for physical games not on your eShop region, and other subtleties like that. This isn't an issue for modders because they don't go online.
If I'm wrong I apologize, but that's what I saw.
Yeah. The "issues" are not hardware related, as we know that it can be removed with a firmware update.
So it seems to imply that is more of legal issue, with a side of incompatibility (some games just don't work in some regions). Then add stuff like digital purchaces and DLC (i.e. like how you can't mix games and DLC from regions on PS3).
So, it's probably why it's better to just leave it as is on the current hardware. Who knows. Maybe they'll figure something out.
So it seems to imply that is more of legal issue, with a side of incompatibility (some games just don't work in some regions). Then add stuff like digital purchaces and DLC (i.e. like how you can't mix games and DLC from regions on PS3).
So, it's probably why it's better to just leave it as is on the current hardware. Who knows. Maybe they'll figure something out.
Willy Wanka
my god this avatar owns
"Maybes aye, maybes no". I'm expecting region locking to be part of their future hardware but hopefully they can surprise me.
InsaneZero
Member
This is in an investor's meeting for businesspeople, not a media interview for consumers. The target audience does not particularly care if Nintendo removes region lock. The original question that prompted this follow up did not demand one way or another for Nintendo to do something, but Iwata opened up this opportunity anyway. I highly doubt that he would actually do that if Nintendo wasn't seriously considering it.
Origin is region locked unless you use a VPN
Or steam banned the transaction with Russians because Russians were trading cheap games for coins.
Some companies just don't want you to cheat on the conversion money.
airmangataosenai
Member
Okay, so you have games like Bayonetta or Assassin's Creed which are either fully third party or developed by an outside source. I can see the argument for legal issues there. But there is literally no issue with removing it from future releases and/or their own software. Again, it really is just a weak excuse and those whom take it at face value are just carrying water for the company.
Pro from Dover
Member
Nope. So i'm not correct? What does it mean?
Positive thinking.
toddhunter
Member
Every region locking related thread, every single time.
Doesn't seem to be that much of an issue for 3DS modders...
Technical issues aren't the only issues ever.
Founder of Nintendo could have promised his mom region locking, for example.
Pro from Dover
Member
Cool thanks. Yep, he's saying no.
Still hope that changes. It would be great if the world buys American.
D.Lo
Member
They added region locking because of piracy. It's another line of defence - if the system is cracked, maybe the region locking holds, leaving piracy in one territory.
This is all the way back to the SNES. All the region defence mechanisms (preventing cart converters from working) were primarily designed to stop game doctor disk copiers from working.
The DS got DESTROYED by piracy. You could buy R4s in stores openly in many countries, including fully first world Australia. It went from selling more software than any other platform in history to PSP level.
And the region locking FUCKING WORKED for a bit on 3DS. 3DS when first cracked was still stuck in-region.
So while it totally sucks hard, blame anyone who has ever pirated new release games. They're the thieving bastards that caused this.
This is all the way back to the SNES. All the region defence mechanisms (preventing cart converters from working) were primarily designed to stop game doctor disk copiers from working.
The DS got DESTROYED by piracy. You could buy R4s in stores openly in many countries, including fully first world Australia. It went from selling more software than any other platform in history to PSP level.
And the region locking FUCKING WORKED for a bit on 3DS. 3DS when first cracked was still stuck in-region.
So while it totally sucks hard, blame anyone who has ever pirated new release games. They're the thieving bastards that caused this.
The old software still exists though and if they can't touch it, then then need to leave the old settings alone. You essentially go from a region filter to a region filter + whitelist for opt-in titles and then create some sort of header flag for region-lock free new titles. And then once you have your import copy of Xenoblade now you need to be able to switch the eShop to get that extra content. These are not insurmountable but they aren't likely to see many gains for that work. They painted themselves into that corner. Much easier to say, fuck it, and work from the ground up.
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