VulcanRaven
Member
He might not be Clark Kent. Sony made Into the Spider-Verse and I don't remember much complaining about Miles Morales.
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J.J. Abrams and Ta-Nehisi Coates are working on a new Superman movie
- Thread starter VulcanRaven
- Start date
Halo is Back
Member
I literally do not care if they swap his skin color. How many superheroes ' identities and morals are tied to their skin color? Not many.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
There are alternate Supermen... Two of which I know of are black. Calvin Ellis aka KalEl (adopted by jor-el and lara) and Val-Zod. I don't know if this is the main universe or multiverse... But I'm giving this a wait and see.
Cavill was the best Superman til now (other than CR).
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
There was actually a lot of hullabaloo about Miles when he first came out... Still is in some places.
FunkMiller
Member
He’s literally an alien from another planet.
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SebastianShaw
Member
No Cavill? Me no care
Furlong
Banned
She should play Clayface.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Not sure why people jerk off over JJ. He’s a hack.
FunkMiller
Member
I’d be dead set against making Batman Bruce Wayne black, because it would require major alterations to the character and his backstory.
But Superman? Alien from another planet, sent to earth from a dying world? Zero issues with him being black. No reason he can’t be.
There‘s no problem with casting a black guy as a character previously played by white guys, if those changes don’t demonstrably alter the character away from the source material.
But Superman? Alien from another planet, sent to earth from a dying world? Zero issues with him being black. No reason he can’t be.
There‘s no problem with casting a black guy as a character previously played by white guys, if those changes don’t demonstrably alter the character away from the source material.
To me there is a difference between a dark skinned kryptonian and a black superman. Superman (aka Kal-el) has a very specific origin story and personality. His father sent him SPECIFICALLY to a planet where he would be a god compared to the locals (colonialism at its finest) but his adoptive parents and rural/blue collar middle of america up-bringing are what allow him to be a benevolent hero instead of a dictator (i feel Snyder grossly misunderstood this dynamic) that simultaneously understands human frailty and weakness (though he has none of it) but also gives us the space to succeed or make mistakes within broad limits.
Yeah, very Jesus-like, but then i think that was pretty deliberate over the years and you can just not lean on the symbology but still have the core.
Anyhoo, i think a Coates written superman would be more like an embittered activist with the powers OF superman, not a clear interpretation of what makes superman special.
mansoor1980
Member
Hulk_Smash
Banned
J
JeremyEtcetera
Unconfirmed Member
If the rumored MBJ ends up being a good superman, I think with a good enough writer, it could lead to a more interesting dynamic between him and the new Batman. The problem is, like with this thread and many others, the onus tends to fall on the actors rather than the writers, who completely get away scott free when things turn south while the actors have to take all of the online hate, threats, and fan bullshit head-on, followed somewhat by the directors. Even looking at this thread I can already see some people gearing up to dislike the rumored MBJ casting over JJ and whatever writer(s) he has working for him.
What are your thoughts on elseworlds and red son?
futurama78
Banned
Well like Ben Affleck is gone and Gal Gadot did 84. Any trilogy WW rumors? Isn’t Cyborg gone?
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Madflavor
Member
No shit, but his upbringing and way he views himself was molded by Smallville and The Kents. If this movie is Val-Zod then I can deal, but a Black Clark Kent would just be so distracting.
FunkMiller
Member
...or incredibly interesting. How a black Kal El would deal with growing up in rural Kansas would be fascinating, as would how he would deal with prejudice as an adult and a god.
All I hear is people whinging about how Superman is a dull character. This seems like a great way to make a very interesting, fresh take.
futurama78
Banned
Isn’t it like a Moses allegory or parable or something. Like who are Supermans people? Is it racist to have a black superman?
So is Wonder Woman. So like it could work.
So is Wonder Woman. So like it could work.
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There are interesting spins on a kryptonian raised in other settings, but those aren't superman to me.
There is a lot of room for supes to operate depending in the power set you give him. Does he just protect metropolis, just the US, the entire planet, the whole solar system/galaxy? So his focus of caring should reflect his ability to enact change. For most of his time that was zeroed in on metropolis or the US, but now he has a global reach and should have a global sense of empathy.
But supes as a concept falls apart when he directly confronts a real human evil (terrorism or police brutality for example). That really only leads to a dictatorship IMHO, with supes prescribing a pattern of behavior and imposing morality on everyone under the threat of heat ray demise.
If you really scale him down like to the level of the Fleischmann cartoons then it makes a bit more sense that he would work at that level since he couldnt defeat the entire army or anything. But an alien coming in and pointing out all the bad things the locals are doing also smacks of problematic storytelling....he is just black this time.
Bert Big Balls
Gold Member
J.J Abrams. No fucking thank you.
futurama78
Banned
Well it might have other planets right? Maybe Green Lantern Corps.
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Blackage
Member
Watching people panic because Superman might be black is just a sad sight lol. JJ is producing so you'll probably get a swole white boy as your Superman again, no worries. JJ is a good producer, so long as he stays far away from the writer's room it'll be fine. As for the writer.....
Ta-Nehisi Coates does have liberal views, but if you actually look at the things he's written you might calm down a bit. His Captain America winter series picked up steam and ended pretty well. At worse he made Captain America introspective on his role and America, which isn't bad when you consider the current political climate.
Also wrote Black Panther which if that was too woke for you, your tolerance level may need to be self examined(Watch Black Lightning if you want over the top woke pandering messaging).
Ta-Nehisi Coates does have liberal views, but if you actually look at the things he's written you might calm down a bit. His Captain America winter series picked up steam and ended pretty well. At worse he made Captain America introspective on his role and America, which isn't bad when you consider the current political climate.
Also wrote Black Panther which if that was too woke for you, your tolerance level may need to be self examined(Watch Black Lightning if you want over the top woke pandering messaging).
Interesting that you think he would endure racism in rural kansas as opposed to any urban city.
But that take would require an incredibly subtle writer, otherwise it would quickly devolve into blunt force "mary sueisms" as 'Daclark Kent' runs into one ridiculous contrivance after another that ends with a stern eyebrow raise and a wagging finger and a "racism is bad, m'kay" catchphrase. That kind of moral crusading would be disasterous.
But a black kryptonian on earth having adventures? I'm down with that. He could even give Supergirl a holla for all i care.
mansoor1980
Member
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ManaByte
Gold Member
They announced Wonder Woman 3 right after 1984 released. Jenkins is directing it after Rogue Squadron.
Lupingosei
Banned
I think, in the end this will be a good thing, after Wonder Woman 84 people saw what a hack writer Patty Jenkins is, maybe she is an ok director but as a writer she has no talent.
Maybe this will be the box office bomb which finally makes JJ disappear and closes every door for Coates. Ghostbusters 2016 also pretty much killed Paul Feig's career.
Also Hollywood needs more box office bombs, a lot more maybe they will finally learn something.
Maybe this will be the box office bomb which finally makes JJ disappear and closes every door for Coates. Ghostbusters 2016 also pretty much killed Paul Feig's career.
Also Hollywood needs more box office bombs, a lot more maybe they will finally learn something.
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
Member
I suppose you'd be happy with a white Black Panther then? Somehow I doubt it. This process only ever seems to work one way.
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FunkMiller
Member
I suppose you'd be happy with a white Black Panther then? Somehow I doubt it. This process only ever seems to work one way.
Those are all alternate versions of the main superhero character, so not really much of an argument. None of the white people have been replaced. They're all still there.
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Reality Czar
Banned
Nothing wrong with the concept of a black Superman itself. But TNC is a Critical Race Theory guy. There is going to be activist crap in it. It is going to be anti American.
There was a time when Superman was directly tied to the American mythos. Truth, Justice, and the American Way. CRT is explicitly Marxist and anti-American, so from this we can expect more of the usual anti-American leftist propaganda. No thanks.
Wake me up when people are tired of doing the deconstructionist thing again, and we get back to trying to make good and inspiring stories again.
There was a time when Superman was directly tied to the American mythos. Truth, Justice, and the American Way. CRT is explicitly Marxist and anti-American, so from this we can expect more of the usual anti-American leftist propaganda. No thanks.
Wake me up when people are tired of doing the deconstructionist thing again, and we get back to trying to make good and inspiring stories again.
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mansoor1980
Member
whos the spider woman actress?
MrTroubleMaker
Member
yup"J.J. Abrams"
ManaByte
Gold Member
I also think JJ might be a little gun shy about doing anything remotely controversial with Superman after the hell he went through in 2002 after writing an extremely controversial Superman movie.
Halo is Back
Member
Black Panther's identity is tied to his origins in Africa but nice strawman. All of the other examples you just listed I have no problem with. As far as "white panther" goes I could care less mate. The outrage would be entertaining to watch though.I suppose you'd be happy with a white Black Panther then? Somehow I doubt it. This process only ever seems to work one way.
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finowns
Member
The obsession with turning white characters black has to be studied it’s so bizarre.
Cockles & Whelks
Banned
Calling it now. Superman will be Black and Lex will be written as if he was Donald Trump.
100%
You mean there are NO OTHER ETHNICITES in africa than black? In all the centuries of Wakanda sending people out to explore the world not a single one met someone from another ethnicity and brought them back? The ENTIRE wakandan country is severely inbred?
That might explain their moronic system of choosing a leader, actually.....
Besides, wakanda could be anywhere. I'd say their defining characteristic is advanced technology due to hoarding vibranium, not being in Africa.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They are going to clone General Zod. Again.
Like WW84.
Calling it now. Superman will be Black and Lex will be written as if he was Donald Trump.
Hollywood is getting boring.
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FunkMiller
Member
Depends on the reason for doing it. If a good, original, decent story can be told using the change, I’m all for it. If it’s just done for the identity politics, not so much.
Halo is Back
Member
Whether you like it or not Black Panther is a black-centered movie with clear nods to African culture.
"Art by Don McGregor. Wakanda (/wəˈkændə, -ˈkɑːn-/) is a fictional country appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. It is located in sub-Saharan Africa and is home to the superhero Black Panther. Wakanda first appeared in Fantastic Four #52 (July 1966), and was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby"
But go ahead. Please continue your incoherent arguments.
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sol_bad
Member
I suppose you'd be happy with a white Black Panther then? Somehow I doubt it. This process only ever seems to work one way.
Not sure what this is proving.
Black Batman is not Bruce Wayne, it's Tm Fox, son of Lucious Fox. It's also a future timeline story so it has no impact on current time line. Batman is a rich white man named Bruce Wayne.
Miles Morales did replace Peter Parker in the Ultimate universe but in the 616 universe Peter Parker is still Spider-man. Currently in the comics they share the same universe, Peter Parker hasn't been replaced.
Sam Wilson was Captain America for 2 years but is Falcon again and Steve Rogers is Captain America. No replacing going on here.
Riri Williams is Ironheart, not Iron Man. No replacement has happened here.
I don't watch the Batwoman show so can't comment, I have no idea who her real identity is or whether it makes sense.
I love JJ Abrams so I'm excited for this. I've also actually heard that Coates run on Black Panther and Captain America were good. Not the greatest of all time but good.
*EDIT*
And if a Wakandan king fucked a white woman and had a white baby I'd be fine with a white Black Panther.
LOL
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Kansas is as white corn-fed American culture as one can get too. They even had him play baseball with his dad.Whether you like it or not Black Panther is a black-centered movie with clear nods to African culture.
"Art by Don McGregor. Wakanda (/wəˈkændə, -ˈkɑːn-/) is a fictional country appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. It is located in sub-Saharan Africa and is home to the superhero Black Panther. Wakanda first appeared in Fantastic Four #52 (July 1966), and was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby"
But go ahead. Please continue your incoherent arguments.
