Support NeoGAF

[jason10mm]

Whether you like it or not Black Panther is a black-centered movie with clear nods to African culture.

Nothing about wakanda and the black panther power requires it to be set in africa. The entire thing could have been in south america or central asia and ZERO story would have changed.

And hell, fucking ASGARD had more diversity than wakanda. Wakandans are racist AF!

 

[mansoor1980]

 

[DeepEnigma]

And hell, fucking ASGARD had more diversity than wakanda. Wakandans are racist AF!

 

[Halo is Back]

Nothing about wakanda and the black panther power requires it to be set in africa. The entire thing could have been in south america or central asia and ZERO story would have changed.

And hell, fucking ASGARD had more diversity than wakanda. Wakandans are racist AF!

 

[TGO]

Whether you like it or not Black Panther is a black-centered movie with clear nods to African culture.

"Art by Don McGregor. Wakanda (/wəˈkændə, -ˈkɑːn-/) is a fictional country appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. It is located in sub-Saharan Africa and is home to the superhero Black Panther. Wakanda first appeared in Fantastic Four #52 (July 1966), and was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby"

But go ahead. Please continue your incoherent arguments.

Yeah I don't know why people keep bringing up Blackpanther
Blade on the other hand could be white or asian
But nobody wants that.
And I don't think there ever has been race swap.
Maybe because the original race of a character isn't important to most people, they just don't like changing them after them being established
I mean despite knowing Nick Fury was white ori..
Wait a sec...

Now my phone is woke!

Anyway, as I was saying
I can't see anybody else being Nick Fury other then Samuel L Jackson

 

[finowns]

Depends on the reason for doing it. If a good, original, decent story can be told using the change, I'm all for it. If it's just done for the identity politics, not so much.

You would have a point if this wasn't isolated to a one way street. But perhaps JJ Abrams, who wouldn't know talent if it smacked him in the face, and the race hustler Coates might pull it off and change my mind.

 

[DeafTourette]

I suppose you'd be happy with a white Black Panther then? Somehow I doubt it. This process only ever seems to work one way.

• Peter is still around and a co-spiderman with Miles... And Miles is from another Earth but now in 616 with our Peter
• Riri is IronHEART... Ironman is still around

• Sam took over for Cap when Cap retired (unless you're ok with buckey and not with Sam)
• Black Batman took over after everyone THOUGHT batman was dead... He's still around as the Dark Detective in the Future State story which is a POSSIBLE timeline
• Kate Kane may be dead, which is why Rian Wilder took her place ... That's the TV show though because Ruby Rose quit.

Got anything else?

 

[finowns]

• Peter is still around and a co-spiderman with Miles... And Miles is from another Earth but now in 616 with our Peter
• Riri is IronHEART... Ironman is still around

• Sam took over for Cap when Cap retired (unless you're ok with buckey and not with Sam)
• Black Batman took over after everyone THOUGHT batman was dead... He's still around as the Dark Detective in the Future State story which is a POSSIBLE timeline
• Kate Kane may be dead, which is why Rian Wilder took her place ... That's the TV show though because Ruby Rose quit.

Got anything else?

Of black actors playing white characters? They turned Nick Fury into Samual L Jackson and made Achilles black do you have an example of something happening the other way around? They made the equalizer from a white guy to Denzel, which Denzel killed the role and made a fun movie, then into Queen Latifa. Lex Luther is black in the new Superman show. They turned Dr. Manhattan black. Instead of getting a badass Spawn Movie we get a black Johnny Storm and Heimdall (Stringer Bell is a great actor so what can you say about that) It's BS!

New thought they should make the actor who plays Heimdall the new Spawn. It better not be Jamie Fox.

 

[Teletraan1]

It isn't that individual characters are being turned black. It is that they are all being turned black at the same time. It is the opposite of organic. We get a superhero/beloved character is now black thread every month. It is just obvious pandering. They have nowhere to go with these stale characters anyway so lets turn them black isn't some victory for black people. It is admitting they have nowhere to go with the characters and are just hopping on the woke race hustling zeitgeist to try and cash in with people who probably won't even consume this media to begin with. Plus the story is usually laced with a bunch of racial victimization narratives because these sloppy writers are just bolting that on to the characters. Go watch that batwoman show if you want to see a bunch of race baiting trash. The black main character literally blames all of the problems on race. Her lot in life isn't a result of the bad choices she made, its racism. Kid gets kidnapped and nobody is looking for them because racism when it seemed to be more about class. When this shit fails to sell they can blame racism no matter how lackluster the product is. Just like the replace male cast with women used sexism as a shield when that garbage was happening and failing. The sad part is that when you make a movie with an actual black superhero they are usually pretty good, just make more of those.

 

[triplestation]

make him more on the human side of powerful

like captain america but he can fly

 

[DESTROYA]

make him more on the human side of powerful

like captain america but he can fly

Then he wouldn't really be Superman tho , plus everybody would bitch about making the black version weaker than the white version.

 

[Rockmaninoff]

I'm not a JJ hater, but he did say that he likes to load up his movies with attention grabbing scenes, without really having an idea of where it's all going to go. So you might have some holy crap moments watching the early stuff, but the ending is mediocre.

 

[triplestation]

Then he wouldn't really be Superman tho , plus everybody would bitch about making the black version weaker than the white version.

they can try something new, it could be interesting i think

are they doing a black superman?

that's as dumb as a white black panther

superman returns is still the best modern day supes movie

so that's what they gotta try topping

man of steel was try hard real world

 

[Futaleufu]

I mean despite knowing Nick Fury was white ori..

Anyway, as I was saying
I can't see anybody else being Nick Fury other then Samuel L Jackson

 

[Labolas]

Please be excited to get sloppy seconds of a classically white character. Shit seems kinda low key racist to me. Also Coates being a writer on this doesn't exactly instill hope within me. His Black Panther and the Crew run was fucking terrible.

 

[sol_bad]

Everyone here keeps saying Coates comics are bad but there is zero explanation as to why they are bad. Can people expand beyond hot takes?

 

[ManaByte]

Everyone here keeps saying Coates comics are bad but there is zero explanation as to why they are bad. Can people expand beyond hot takes?

I don't think those saying that actually read them. Maybe it's something some YouTuber claims?

Both his runs were good, and I'm sad he's leaving BP. His stuff isn't the slow burn epic like someone like Hickman would do. It's obvious he's a novelist writing a comic, but they aren't terrible at all.

 

[Labolas]

Lol, hot takes, huh? I've only read his BP and the Crew and it was bad because the racial/social pandering done in the book and a lot of characters in the book got together because of no real reason outside of being black. I remember hearing the series being cancelled when it was in its 2nd issue.

I have no interest in his other shit.

I also soured on Hickman with his X-Men run.

 

[sol_bad]

Lol, hot takes, huh? I've only read his BP and the Crew and it was bad because the racial/social pandering done in the book and a lot of characters in the book got together because of no real reason outside of being black. I remember hearing the series being cancelled when it was in its 2nd issue.

I have no interest in his other shit.

I also soured on Hickman with his X-Men run.

Like I said, I haven't read the Coates Black Panther books. But you do realise that The Crew was a 2003 comic that went for 6 issues? Black Panther and The Crew is a continuation of that comic spiritually.

But basically your issue with the book is that it's a bunch of black heroes being together? You didn't mention anything about characterisation or narrative. White hero teams generally get together for no real reason either.

Black hero team bad.
White hero team good.
This is the criticism I'm understanding and it's poor criticism.

And yes I understand Black Panther and the Crew got cancelled after 6 issues so it obviously didn't work out. But his core Panther book ran for 50 issues or so, 5 years worth of comics.

 

[Labolas]

Like I said, I haven't read the Coates Black Panther books. But you do realise that The Crew was a 2003 comic that went for 6 issues? Black Panther and The Crew is a continuation of that comic spiritually.

But basically your issue with the book is that it's a bunch of black heroes being together? You didn't mention anything about characterisation or narrative. White hero teams generally get together for no real reason either.

Black hero team bad.
White hero team good.
This is the criticism I'm understanding and it's poor criticism.

And yes I understand Black Panther and the Crew got cancelled after 6 issues so it obviously didn't work out. But his core Panther book ran for 50 issues or so, 5 years worth of comics.

No, it wasn't just the black characters teaming up for real reason I had a problem with. It was social and political commentary in the book that made it terrible.

 

[Cleared_Hot]

Corporate heads at WB: I KNOW!!! WE MAKE HIM BLACK AND FIGHT WHITE SUPREMACISTS!!!

 

[DeafTourette]

Of black actors playing white characters? They turned Nick Fury into Samual L Jackson and made Achilles black do you have an example of something happening the other way around? They made the equalizer from a white guy to Denzel, which Denzel killed the role and made a fun movie, then into Queen Latifa. Lex Luther is black in the new Superman show. They turned Dr. Manhattan black. Instead of getting a badass Spawn Movie we get a black Johnny Storm and Heimdall (Stringer Bell is a great actor so what can you say about that) It's BS!

New thought they should make the actor who plays Heimdall the new Spawn. It better not be Jamie Fox.

There is more than one Nick Fury. Sam jackson's fury from the MCU which is based on the Ultimate universe's Fury who looks just like Sam Jackson... The main marvel universe white Fury and his half black son Nick Jr.

Which Achilles are you referring to?

The movie equalizer has nothing to do with the 80s TV equalizer... As far as I'm concerned, different universes. And Queen Latifah as the equalizer is too much of a stretch... She has no actual training and has never really done action... At least not intense fight scenes (I don't know really because I haven't seen the show and not in a rush to).

That isn't black Lex Luthor. Jon Cryer is still Lex... That's an alternate Lex from a destroyed Earth after Crisis. His computer even calls him "Captain Luthor".

And Dr. Manhattan was in disguise and gave himself amnesia.

About Heimdall... Like I said... MCU is not the comics universe... Plus they're aliens, not ACTUAL norse men or norse gods. Same with Johnny Storm... Different universe.

Seriously... Do you put ANY thought into this stuff? Or are you triggered by race bent recasting?

And I'd like to say, I wish some of these race and sex bent recasting a would include Asians, native American, etc. It can't JUST be black.

Part of the reason for this is that Hollywood would historically white wash a black character... What was meant to be a black character was changed to be white... Or white people playing asian or native or whatever else race ... Like Mickey Rooney or that dude in Short Circuit.

 

[DeafTourette]

Calvin Ellis aka KalEl adopted son of Jor-el and Lara

Val-Zod

Multiple Supermen with the main DC Superman

 

[finowns]

There is more than one Nick Fury. Sam jackson's fury from the MCU which is based on the Ultimate universe's Fury who looks just like Sam Jackson... The main marvel universe white Fury and his half black son Nick Jr.

Which Achilles are you referring to?

The movie equalizer has nothing to do with the 80s TV equalizer... As far as I'm concerned, different universes. And Queen Latifah as the equalizer is too much of a stretch... She has no actual training and has never really done action... At least not intense fight scenes (I don't know really because I haven't seen the show and not in a rush to).

That isn't black Lex Luthor. Jon Cryer is still Lex... That's an alternate Lex from a destroyed Earth after Crisis. His computer even calls him "Captain Luthor".

And Dr. Manhattan was in disguise and gave himself amnesia.

About Heimdall... Like I said... MCU is not the comics universe... Plus they're aliens, not ACTUAL norse men or norse gods. Same with Johnny Storm... Different universe.

Seriously... Do you put ANY thought into this stuff? Or are you triggered by race bent recasting?

And I'd like to say, I wish some of these race and sex bent recasting a would include Asians, native American, etc. It can't JUST be black.

Part of the reason for this is that Hollywood would historically white wash a black character... What was meant to be a black character was changed to be white... Or white people playing asian or native or whatever else race ... Like Mickey Rooney or that dude in Short Circuit.

What are you taking about Lex is black in the new Superman and Lois.

Again it's exclusively white characters being recasted/alt universed whatever adjective you wish. And because Hollywood in the 50s was White this is revenge? It's complete nonsense.

 

[Shouta]

From a general perspective, I'm pretty interested in this because it'd be cool to have a black Superman movie. We've gotten a bunch of movies of the classic character already so it's fine to give a different take a shot.

On the other hand, the track record of solo Superman movies hasn't been particularly good recently and it has J. J. Abrams attached. That's an ominous combination...

 

[O-N-E]

Make everyone Black.

Then make everyone gay.

Then make everyone trans.

Then make everyone a furry.

Then blow up the planet.

 

[finowns]

From a general perspective, I'm pretty interested in this because it'd be cool to have a black Superman movie. We've gotten a bunch of movies of the classic character already so it's fine to give a different take a shot.

On the other hand, the track record of solo Superman movies hasn't been particularly good recently and it has J. J. Abrams attached. That's an ominous combination...

For myself I'm looking forward to an Inuit Superman.

 

[VulcanRaven]

Well like Ben Affleck is gone and Gal Gadot did 84. Any trilogy WW rumors? Isn't Cyborg gone?

Affleck will be in The Flash movie.

 

[DeafTourette]

What are you taking about Lex is black in the new Superman and Lois.

Again it's exclusively white characters being recasted/alt universed whatever adjective you wish. And because Hollywood in the 50s was White this is revenge? It's complete nonsense.

No... Jon Cryer is still Lex in the Arrowverse. Watch that interaction again. Listen to what he says. He's not from that Earth. He's from a different Earth! He says it more than once.

And there have been whitewashed characters even recently. Ben Affleck's character in Argo (who was a real Latino man), Katniss Everdeen, the guy Kevin Spacey played was actually supposed to be black, the whole main cast of that movie "21" was based on the true story of a group of Asian-Americans... There's more but I'm sleepy. Night.

 

[A Elbereth Gilthoniel]

• Peter is still around and a co-spiderman with Miles... And Miles is from another Earth but now in 616 with our Peter
• Riri is IronHEART... Ironman is still around

• Sam took over for Cap when Cap retired (unless you're ok with buckey and not with Sam)
• Black Batman took over after everyone THOUGHT batman was dead... He's still around as the Dark Detective in the Future State story which is a POSSIBLE timeline
• Kate Kane may be dead, which is why Rian Wilder took her place ... That's the TV show though because Ruby Rose quit.

Got anything else?

Who gives a shit what excuse the writers came up with to replace them though? We all see this for the transparent race-swapping SJW nonsense this is.

Since you asked -

And the list goes on.

 

[finowns]

No... Jon Cryer is still Lex in the Arrowverse. Watch that interaction again. Listen to what he says. He's not from that Earth. He's from a different Earth! He says it more than once.

And there have been whitewashed characters even recently. Ben Affleck's character in Argo (who was a real Latino man), Katniss Everdeen, the guy Kevin Spacey played was actually supposed to be black, the whole main cast of that movie "21" was based on the true story of a group of Asian-Americans... There's more but I'm sleepy. Night.

I can't follow all that craziness. All I know is I'll allow a black Superman for a white Blade and white Spawn.

 

[O-N-E]

Who gives a shit what excuse the writers came up with to replace them though? We all see this for the transparent race-swapping SJW nonsense this is.

Since you asked -

And the list goes on.

Still not enough Black representation. Plz more.

 

[sol_bad]

Who gives a shit what excuse the writers came up with to replace them though? We all see this for the transparent race-swapping SJW nonsense this is.

Since you asked -

And the list goes on.

Did the change of skin colour make these movies and TV shows worse?

 

[A Elbereth Gilthoniel]

Did the change of skin colour make these movies and TV shows worse?

Did it make them better?

 

[sol_bad]

Did it make them better?

Some of them are good, some of them are bad. Nothing to do with skin color though.
I'm not the one complaining about skin colour.

 

[A Elbereth Gilthoniel]

Some of them are good, some of them are bad. Nothing to do with skin color though.
I'm not the one complaining about skin colour.

Was it the race-swap that improved them though? What's wrong with being white?

 

[Labolas]

I guess people can settle on black Superman. But can't be bothered to raise a fuss about actual original black superheroes like Icon, Mr. Terrific, or Static Shock.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Calvin Ellis aka KalEl adopted son of Jor-el and Lara

Val-Zod

Multiple Supermen with the main DC Superman

LOL, the first one looks literally like a white man with a coat of dark paint.

The looks on the faces of the non-smiling ones are hilarious. These superheroes could wipe out humanity, yet they constantly look more worried than Jayden Smith in his early teens.

Also, people are still buying and reading this crap in the 21st century? Mass high-quality cosplaying has made the already garish look of superheroes just plainly ridiculous and insufferable. Modern coloring just added the final touch. Panels like these just make my skin crawl these days. These characters come from an age when all people literally dressed the same and color in clothing seemed almost forbidden by law. Now I see these group images of people and... uh... rabbits?? in costumes and it just looks like they're all going to get their collector's edition comics signed by the author. They hardly look like people going to battle.

(and seriously, why is a rabbit wearing a mask?)

 

[sol_bad]

Was it the race-swap that improved them though? What's wrong with being white?

Nothing is wrong with white actors.. Most Hollywood films are still filled with them.
What is wrong with a movie studio going through auditions and finding a black actor to be the best choice?

 

[FunkMiller]

There's really nothing quite so pathetic as a bunch of people who have been represented consistently across all forms of media for decades and decades, getting whiny about the fact that some characters don't represent them any more. The fragility is quite something.

Calm down. There will always be plenty of white characters for you to still enjoy going forward.

It's perfectly okay for you not to see yourself reflected back at you, providing the characterisation and story justify the change.

 

[finowns]

There's really nothing quite so pathetic as a bunch of people who have been represented consistently across all forms of media for decades and decades, getting whiny about the fact that some characters don't represent them any more. The fragility is quite something.

Calm down. There will always be plenty of white characters for you to still enjoy going forward.

It's perfectly okay for you not to see yourself reflected back at you, providing the characterisation and story justify the change.

Oh god everyone is calm chill out.

 

[SJRB]

 

[A Elbereth Gilthoniel]

There's really nothing quite so pathetic as a bunch of people who have been represented consistently across all forms of media for decades and decades, getting whiny about the fact that some characters don't represent them any more. The fragility is quite something.

Calm down. There will always be plenty of white characters for you to still enjoy going forward.

It's perfectly okay for you not to see yourself reflected back at you, providing the characterisation and story justify the change.

It's the fragility of SJW's that demands we change White and Asian characters into black ones. Doesn't it bother you that so many black icons are just whites in black-face?

This is what we all see when you race-swap an iconic character. It feels inauthentic because it is inauthentic. It is stolen culture. Why is it wrong for us to ask for representation in our countries in our media? Are non-whites so insecure that they feel the constant need to seize what we have created for themselves? What's wrong with writing new stories instead of appropriating anothers? Isn't "appropriating culture" supposed to be a bad thing?

 

[CAB_Life]

This thread technically belongs in the Cringe OT.

 

[VulcanRaven]

Who gives a shit what excuse the writers came up with to replace them though? We all see this for the transparent race-swapping SJW nonsense this is.

Since you asked -

And the list goes on.

Nick Fury was black in the Ultimate comics before MCU. I really liked that Michael Clarke Duncan was Kingpin in the 2003 Daredevil movie. It was great casting.

 

[Lady Bird]

Did it make them better?

Actually, yes. More racial diversification helps plenty of secondary characters to stand out more visually (or they would be utterly generic otherwise in a sea of white guys), while also giving potential for future spin-offs to put them in the main character role, which is something that would make many minorities happy. This without hurting the quality of the actual products.

I'm usually against race-swapping or gender-swapping iconic, largely popular characters, because that almost always results in betraying the original fanbase in order to appeal to a new audience. Exceptions being when the alternative characters co-exist with the original ones (either in-universe, or just in current media), like Peter Parker + Miles Morales, for example, as it satisfies two different audiences simultaneously. Otherwise, I'm of the opinion that new characters should instead be created for that purpose instead or repurposing existing ones.

But most of the ones you mentioned weren't hugely popular in the first place. No one absolutely cared about most of them being race-swapped. There was nothing to lose, and plenty to win, as those decisions push actors of different races into the spotlight, giving them opportunities to work in the big industry and, as I've said above, paving the way for them to potentially get their own movie in the future, in some cases.

Not to mention that there were some great casting that came out of this. Jason Momoa's Aquaman is FAR more iconic than classic Aquaman, and has turned a somewhat lame/ joke character into someone that is widely considered badass and sexy in his own distinct way.

 

[ManaByte]

Who gives a shit what excuse the writers came up with to replace them though? We all see this for the transparent race-swapping SJW nonsense this is.

Since you asked -

And the list goes on.

It's posts like this that give others the wrong impression about this place.

 

[A Elbereth Gilthoniel]

It's posts like this that give others the wrong impression about this place.

You mean that it isn't a one-sided anti-white clone of that other forum? I agree. Does it shock you that much to see someone unburdened by white-guilt?

 

[OmegaSupreme]

What a mess. DC continues failing.

 

[sol_bad]

It's the fragility of SJW's that demands we change White and Asian characters into black ones. Doesn't it bother you that so many black icons are just whites in black-face?

This is what we all see when you race-swap an iconic character. It feels inauthentic because it is inauthentic. It is stolen culture. Why is it wrong for us to ask for representation in our countries in our media? Are non-whites so insecure that they feel the constant need to seize what we have created for themselves? What's wrong with writing new stories instead of appropriating anothers? Isn't "appropriating culture" supposed to be a bad thing?

LOL
You are coming across as fragile and upset buddy.