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January Wrasslin' |OT| Big Month John

J

JesseEwiak

Member
Fox318 said:
Jesus Christ

Going back and watching some of these promos from the 70s and 80s

Vince killed what made wrestlers over holy fuck
Click to expand...

No, wrestlers becoming geek fans instead of crazy people who wanted to make money is what killed the business.

Notice how all the people who are terrible promos are either NXT guys who never really learned how to do a real promo or indy guys who were too worried about figuring out to do new flips to learn how to cut an effective promo.

I mean, TNA is trash, but at least AJ came in knowing how to do a half way decent promo.

Edit - Also, Nakamura is just doing on NXT house shows what everybody does in New Japan on house shows. Which is smart. Do your patented spots the fans came to see, then go all out once or twice a month.
 
R

RBH

Member
Barrage said:
Taker/Braun is kinda dope. actually.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Oersted said:
Drugfueled steroid experiments are not something to run a business on
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Sure it is. Way more effective than depending on geeks who want to do 19,000 flippy moves and then get injured. You just don't have to care about what happens after you're done with them. With Trump in office, seems like the WWE won't have to care about any blowback for at least 4 years.
 
T

Tall4Life

Member
JesseEwiak said:
No, wrestlers becoming geek fans instead of crazy people who wanted to make money is what killed the business.

Notice how all the people who are terrible promos are either NXT guys who never really learned how to do a real promo or indy guys who were too worried about figuring out to do new flips to learn how to cut an effective promo.

I mean, TNA is trash, but at least AJ came in knowing how to do a half way decent promo.
Click to expand...

It's not the indies guys' faults that many of them are subpar promos. They don't really give a shit about that on the indie circuit. When you're travelling most of the time from promotion to promotion, guess what a promo is worth jack shit. Your next promotion won't know you made one. Their fans won't know. That's just how the circuit is. They get over and popular on their wrestling ability. And the indy scene has become a lot more lucrative in recent years because wrestlers like The Young Bucks, Danielson, Briscoes, etc. made it their own. Wrestlers can actually live a decent life just doing indies. Why do promos if you know for the forseeable future that you're going to be touring the indies?

And then if they get to WWE, WWE strips away what made that talent so special -- their wrestling ability. Owens doesn't do 1/5 of what he did on the indies. Rollins doesn't. Naka doesn't. Joe doesn't. AJ doesn't.

The wrestling game has changed since the 70's, it's WWE's fault for not adapting their product. TNA is the only other wrestling company out there with a similar structure as WWE in regards to balancing promos and matches. ROH barely focuses on promos at all, and NJPW's promos are pretty rare too. WWE and TNA are the outliers, not the rule of today's wrestling.
 
B

Bluekaveli

Member
JesseEwiak said:
No, wrestlers becoming geek fans instead of crazy people who wanted to make money is what killed the business.

Notice how all the people who are terrible promos are either NXT guys who never really learned how to do a real promo or indy guys who were too worried about figuring out to do new flips to learn how to cut an effective promo.

I mean, TNA is trash, but at least AJ came in knowing how to do a half way decent promo.

Edit - Also, Nakamura is just doing on NXT house shows what everybody does in New Japan on house shows. Which is smart. Do your patented spots the fans came to see, then go all out once or twice a month.
Click to expand...
Every wrestler in wwe is just happy to be there tbh, that's why they'll never be huge. Everyone today would be jobber back in 95 because they don't try to protect their spot. Fuck, I'd be trying to fuck over Roman any chance I got to be the head guy. They just want to be buddy buddy video game friends. Say what you want about Punk but he understood how it went.
 
P

Pikma

Banned
Lol steroids, drugs and fucked up shit like that were what almost killed the business but yeah I guess we could also blame the geeks

Those fucking geeks!!!
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
JesseEwiak said:
Sure it is. Way more effective than depending on geeks who want to do 19,000 flippy moves and then get injured. You just don't have to care about what happens after you're done with them. With Trump in office, seems like the WWE won't have to care about any blowback for at least 4 years.
Click to expand...
Nice try Vince.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Tall4Life said:
It's not the indies guys' faults that many of them are subpar promos. They don't really give a shit about that on the indie circuit. When you're travelling most of the time from promotion to promotion, guess what a promo is worth jack shit. Your next promotion won't know you made one. Their fans won't know. That's just how the circuit is. They get over and popular on their wrestling ability. And the indy scene has become a lot more lucrative in recent years because wrestlers like The Young Bucks, Danielson, Briscoes, etc. made it their own. Wrestlers can actually live a decent life just doing indies. Why do promos if you know for the forseeable future that you're going to be touring the indies?

And then if they get to WWE, WWE strips away what made that talent so special -- their wrestling ability. Owens doesn't do 1/5 of what he did on the indies. Rollins doesn't. Naka doesn't. Joe doesn't. AJ doesn't.

The wrestling game has changed since the 70's, it's WWE's fault for not adapting their product. TNA is the only other wrestling company out there with a similar structure as WWE in regards to balancing promos and matches. ROH barely focuses on promos at all, and NJPW's promos are pretty rare too. WWE and TNA are the outliers, not the rule of today's wrestling.
Click to expand...

Yes, obviously, RAW would be doing 6's again if Kevin Owens could just do all his MOVEZ~!

Come on now. As far as the "indy guys are making all this money" talking point, it's simply false. A small percentage of indy workers can make a 'decent' life if they happen to be in high demand, they can get Japan dates, and some sweet merch money off the Internet marks.Unless of course they get injured or have something else happen to them unexpectedly, then they're fucked. Unlike those horrible bad workers like Stevie Ray who had $700,000 guaranteed. But hey, it's so much better now!

So yes, if you're The Young Bucks, continue not to learn how to do promos. But, for the other 95% of indy guys, perhaps take a little time off, stop doing flips, and practice a few promos. Afrer all, Punk didn't get signed because he was this great worker. He got signed because he could actually talk, unlike almost every other indy guy.now or at the time.

I'll agree though, the wrestling game has changed in the past twenty years - it's gotten smaller and smaller and smaller and less relevant outside of children and a hardcore base of fans who have opinions that stop the business from being appealing to casual fans.

Also, WWE is wrestling to 95% of people on Earth. What a foreign company that can't even draw more than half the Dome to it's biggest show of the year and is still a shell of it's former glory and an indy company that draws 1,000 black t-shirted male fans to a National Guard armory doesn't matter to them.

Five star matches don't draw money. Five star promos and stories do.

Sweeney Tom said:
Yeah, I'd rather have everyone be nerds than go back to the days where everyone was on roids and less than half of them lived beyond 40
Click to expand...

If it learns to a more enteraining show, absolutely. Wrestlers are not my friends any more than the movie star I buy a ticket, a rock star I buy a ticker for, or an artist I buy a piece from. I don't want to be their friends. I want them top entertain me. Period.
 
T

Tall4Life

Member
JesseEwiak said:
Yes, obviously, RAW would be doing 6's again if Kevin Owens could just do all his MOVEZ~!

Come on now. As far as the "indy guys are making all this money" talking point, it's simply false. A small percentage of indy workers can make a 'decent' life if they happen to be in high demand, they can get Japan dates, and some sweet merch money off the Internet marks.Unless of course they get injured or have something else happen to them unexpectedly, then they're fucked. Unlike those horrible bad workers like Stevie Ray who had $700,000 guaranteed. But hey, it's so much better now!

So yes, if you're The Young Bucks, continue not to learn how to do promos. But, for the other 95% of indy guys, perhaps take a little time off, stop doing flips, and practice a few promos. Afrer all, Punk didn't get signed because he was this great worker. He got signed because he could actually talk, unlike almost every other indy guy.now or at the time.

I'll agree though, the wrestling game has changed in the past twenty years - it's gotten smaller and smaller and smaller and less relevant outside of children and a hardcore base of fans who have opinions that stop the business from being appealing to casual fans.

Also, WWE is wrestling to 95% of people on Earth. What a foreign company that can't even draw more than half the Dome to it's biggest show of the year and is still a shell of it's former glory and an indy company that draws 1,000 black t-shirted male fans to a National Guard armory doesn't matter to them.

Five star matches don't draw money. Five star promos and stories do.
Click to expand...

You do realize that WWE offers developmental contracts to basically anyone who's considered a star on the indies, right? Joe got one, Styles got one, TYB got one (or two), Omega got one, etc...and they've probably been asked multiple times. Punk just decided to bite. He was in OVW for a year or so before he went to the main roster...and then he was put on ECW. They really didn't give a shit about Punk until 2009 or so, and even then it wasn't until 2011 that they really pushed him.

You're being incredibly revisionist and ignorant as to what conditions are actually like now for indie wrestlers. Yes you still have the people at the bottom who are scraping by but life is pretty good up and up on the ladder. And the people who got on top of the indies got there almost entirely on their own merit. They got themselves over.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Tall4Life said:
You do realize that WWE offers developmental contracts to basically anyone who's considered a star on the indies, right? Joe got one, Styles got one, TYB got one (or two), Omega got one, etc...and they've probably been asked multiple times. Punk just decided to bite. He was in OVW for a year or so before he went to the main roster...and then he was put on ECW. They really didn't give a shit about Punk until 2009 or so, and even then it wasn't until 2011 that they really pushed him.

You're being incredibly revisionist and ignorant as to what conditions are actually like now for indie wrestlers. Yes you still have the people at the bottom who are scraping by but life is pretty good up and up on the ladder. And the people who got on top of the indies got there almost entirely on their own merit. They got themselves over.
Click to expand...

No, you're buying the work from indy guys about how great they're doing. Yes, ex-WWE guys like Cody or Rey Jr. are doing great. The top 1% of indy guys that get booked everywhere are doing fine. I'm sure "sponsors" in Japan make Kenny Omega's life in Japan grand.

But, as I've said before, in 2016, there are less people involved in wrestling making more than the median wage than ever in the business. Current indy guys can try to spin it, but compared to even marginal stars of the past, they're making peanuts. There's a reason why prior to LU Johnny Mundo was just doing stunt work and trying to make it as an actor in Hollywood.
 
H

Heroman

Banned
JesseEwiak said:
No, you're buying the work from indy guys about how great they're doing. Yes, ex-WWE guys like Cody or Rey Jr. are doing great. The top 1% of indy guys that get booked everywhere are doing fine. I'm sure "sponsors" in Japan make Kenny Omega's life in Japan grand.

But, as I've said before, in 2016, there are less people involved in wrestling making more than the median wage than ever in the business. Current indy guys can try to spin it, but compared to even marginal stars of the past, they're making peanuts.
Click to expand...
You could say the same for every era of Wrestling ,outside of a like 1-5% of Wrestlers most don't make any money, that happens in every fight sport.
 
B

Bluekaveli

Member
JesseEwiak said:
Yes, obviously, RAW would be doing 6's again if Kevin Owens could just do all his MOVEZ~!

Come on now. As far as the "indy guys are making all this money" talking point, it's simply false. A small percentage of indy workers can make a 'decent' life if they happen to be in high demand, they can get Japan dates, and some sweet merch money off the Internet marks.Unless of course they get injured or have something else happen to them unexpectedly, then they're fucked. Unlike those horrible bad workers like Stevie Ray who had $700,000 guaranteed. But hey, it's so much better now!

So yes, if you're The Young Bucks, continue not to learn how to do promos. But, for the other 95% of indy guys, perhaps take a little time off, stop doing flips, and practice a few promos. Afrer all, Punk didn't get signed because he was this great worker. He got signed because he could actually talk, unlike almost every other indy guy.now or at the time.

I'll agree though, the wrestling game has changed in the past twenty years - it's gotten smaller and smaller and smaller and less relevant outside of children and a hardcore base of fans who have opinions that stop the business from being appealing to casual fans.

Also, WWE is wrestling to 95% of people on Earth. What a foreign company that can't even draw more than half the Dome to it's biggest show of the year and is still a shell of it's former glory and an indy company that draws 1,000 black t-shirted male fans to a National Guard armory doesn't matter to them.

Five star matches don't draw money. Five star promos and stories do.



If it learns to a more enteraining show, absolutely. Wrestlers are not my friends any more than the movie star I buy a ticket, a rock star I buy a ticker for, or an artist I buy a piece from. I don't want to be their friends. I want them top entertain me. Period.
Click to expand...
Five star post.

What people don't understand is just that, the spectacle of the story is the draw. If it turns into a good match, great but I want the story before that.

Omega wouldn't draw or even be known to the majority wwe crowd, that's what people don't understand. No one outside of the internet is paying attention to what's happening overseas.

And another thing Vince is paying attention to those who are just playing games and those who are taking this serious.

Jesse isn't really saying go out and do roids but take the business more serious. There are guys out there that have great bodies and aren't abusing themselves. I was listening to court this morning and yhe casual fan doesn't even think these guys are tough. Look at Kevin owens, he doesn't capture the casual fan. He looks like someone you'd see playing pick up in the gym with the guys.

THIS IS WHY THERE IS AN EMPHASIS ON SIZE!

Look at Benoit, he was small but hell you see him and you'd think he would tear your head off of you. He emulated a monster and was built like the best.

Eddie was built as shit too.

While their bodies weren't natural, you can achieve similar bodies without the roids. If you have superior genes like myself of course; I'm no pussy.

But anyway, take it more serious. Fucking pencil neck geeks.
 
P

Pikma

Banned
Biggest-Geek-Ever said:
Catching up on the #GoldenShowers thread and this gem will easily be the burial of the year: http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=228123521#post228123521
Click to expand...


Fuck that KingBroly guy


Bluekaveli said:
Five star post.

What people don't understand is just that, the spectacle of the story is the draw. If it turns into a good match, great but I want the story before that.

Omega wouldn't draw or even be known to the majority wwe crowd, that's what people don't understand. No one outside of the internet is paying attention to what's happening overseas.

And another thing Vince is paying attention to those who are just playing games and those who are taking this serious.

Jesse isn't really saying go out and do roids but take the business more serious. There are guys out there that have great bodies and aren't abusing themselves. I was listening to court this morning and yhe casual fan doesn't even think these guys are tough. Look at Kevin owens, he doesn't capture the casual fan. He looks like someone you'd see playing pick up in the gym with the guys.

THIS IS WHY THERE IS AN EMPHASIS ON SIZE!

Look at Benoit, he was small but hell you see him and you'd think he would tear your head off of you. He emulated a monster and was built like the best.

Eddie was built as shit too.

While their bodies weren't natural, you can achieve similar bodies without the roids. If you have superior genes like myself of course; I'm no pussy.

But anyway, take it more serious. Fucking pencil neck geeks.
Click to expand...
Look at this, Mr. Kaveli just turned heel
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Also all of the best indie talents of the WWE era are also people who can talk. This isn't a coincidence. Being able to talk has always earned people more money. Hell there are fuckers who can barely wrestle in the 60's-90's who commanded top dollar because they could tell a convincing story in the ring without anything fancier than a shoulder tackle and some basic locks.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Heroman said:
You could say the same for every era of Wrestling ,outside of a like 1-5% of Wrestlers most don't make any money, that happens in every fight sport.
Click to expand...

Not actually. There are numbers on payoffs from various territories and for full-time guys in most territories, it was a job. A solid working class job, but you were making a decent wage for your work. Yeah, you could piss it all away on booze, drugs, or women, but that wasn't the promoters fault.

I'm not saying it was all sunshine 'n' roses, but go look at the legal documents from various lawsuits WCW was involved in. Random luchadores were getting paid more than midcard guys in the WWE get now. Stevie Ray was paid $700,000 guaranteed. Outside of the tippy top guys, there's nobody on the WWE roster who has a 700k downside.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Heroman said:
No one gives a shit about body in wrestling.
Click to expand...

It's all about having a look. Some people do a lot with a perfect body. Others come off as cardboard cutouts of body lifters. Charisma has always been the most important trait for a performer, just like in any other form of acting.
 
F

FallingEdge

Member
Bluekaveli said:
Five star post.

What people don't understand is just that, the spectacle of the story is the draw. If it turns into a good match, great but I want the story before that.

Omega wouldn't draw or even be known to the majority wwe crowd, that's what people don't understand. No one outside of the internet is paying attention to what's happening overseas.

And another thing Vince is paying attention to those who are just playing games and those who are taking this serious.

Jesse isn't really saying go out and do roids but take the business more serious. There are guys out there that have great bodies and aren't abusing themselves. I was listening to court this morning and yhe casual fan doesn't even think these guys are tough. Look at Kevin owens, he doesn't capture the casual fan. He looks like someone you'd see playing pick up in the gym with the guys.

THIS IS WHY THERE IS AN EMPHASIS ON SIZE!

Look at Benoit, he was small but hell you see him and you'd think he would tear your head off of you. He emulated a monster and was built like the best.

Eddie was built as shit too.

While their bodies weren't natural, you can achieve similar bodies without the roids. If you have superior genes like myself of course; I'm no pussy.

But anyway, take it more serious. Fucking pencil neck geeks.
Click to expand...

lol similar bodies

lifetime nattys will never have a body that is close to being similar to prime Benoit or Guerrero

Heroman said:
No one gives a shit about body in wrestling.
Click to expand...

Backstage%2BTalk.gif


of course it matters, you need a presence in the ring in which body plays a role
 
P

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Fox318 said:
Jesus Christ

Going back and watching some of these promos from the 70s and 80s

Vince killed what made wrestlers over holy fuck
Click to expand...

We need some mother fuckers like Dick the Bruiser, more guys who legit looked like they'd beat your ass in a bar brawl if you looked at them funny.

I mean not that it matters since WWE today doesn't really set anyone up more than a few talents to actually have any chance to draw, it's all about the brand and corporate branding now they want to draw people in with overly scripted garbage that talent can't sell and fans don't really believe in as Vince and Kevin Dunn want to continue to believe their fantasy that they're making movies instead of, to their great shame, professional wrestling.

Next stop is it turning into a social media meet and greet.
 
S

Sweeney Tom

Banned
TNA spoiler

Hardys are on an expedition of gold, and have upgraded Vanguard 1 with teleportation abilities. They'll get all the gold from all the lands and promotions until the 7 Deities deem them the greatest team in time and space. They touch Vanguard 1, lights go out, and they're gone
 
F

Fox318

Member
PHOENIXZERO said:
We need some mother fuckers like Dick the Bruiser, more guys who legit looked like they'd beat your ass in a bar brawl if you looked at them funny.

I mean not that it matters since WWE today doesn't really set anyone up more than a few talents to actually have any chance to draw, it's all about the brand and corporate branding now they want to draw people in with overly scripted garbage that talent can't sell and fans don't really believe in as Vince and Kevin Dunn want to continue to believe their fantasy that they're making movies instead of, to their great shame, professional wrestling.

Next stop is it turning into a social media meet and greet.
Click to expand...


Shame is Stroman and Corbin could fit those roles of much better than they are now. Imagine if those 2 trained in a New Japan dojo and fucking dressed like main eventers?
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Strowman is getting a good reaction and his look is fine for a giant. Corbin needs to do something about his hair.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Fox318 said:
Shame is Stroman and Corbin could fit those roles of much better than they are now. Imagine if those 2 trained in a New Japan dojo and fucking dressed like main eventers?
Click to expand...

I mean, there's a reason why Strowman is over by current day WWE standards - a big guy continually beating people up quickly works, even in front of the modern WWE audience.
 
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