• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

January Wrasslin' |OT| Big Month John

T

TommyTosser

Member
gun_haver said:
(though I dunno how elimination chamber works, never seen one)
Click to expand...

200.gif
 
T

TarpitCarnivore

Member
Striker said:
Ah ok. You should go back and watch Mickie's debut and her feud with Trish. The best women's WM match too (WM 22).
Click to expand...

I wish I could watch the 00-05 stuff without all the backstage stuff. Vince during that era is just downright disgusting and makes me want to throw up. Watching Rumble where Vince has three 'divas' making cock and ball jokes was just ugh.
 
V

Vince_Russo

Banned
Who in the ROH/NJPW connection -- which company do you guys think is benefiting the most? It's cool that ROH gets a spot on WrestleKingdom but it's usually like the second match. ROH books NJPW guys much better than Japan does for roh so IDK. Another thing, NJPW clearly makes more money than ROH, and I feel like ROH spends more money on this relationship than the other way around too. Anymore details on this relationship ?
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Vince_Russo said:
Who in the ROH/NJPW connection -- which company do you guys think is benefiting the most? It's cool that ROH gets a spot on WrestleKingdom but it's usually like the second match. ROH books NJPW guys much better than Japan does for roh so IDK. Another thing, NJPW clearly makes more money than ROH, and I feel like ROH spends more money on this relationship than the other way around too. Anymore details on this relationship ?
Click to expand...

ROH fans see NJPW stars as a huge deal
NJPW fans don't see ROH stars as a huge deal

So the relative positions on the cards make sense. You saw the crowd reaction to Lethal when he had to sub for Elgin against Naito in the NJPW main event a few months back.

This isn't absolute of course, I think it's a matter of ROH fans knowing who's good in NJPW, so them already being over before they make their first ROH appearance, whereas NJPW fans aren't paying attention to ROH, so their stars would need to work at NJPW events for a while to get over.

If you're an observer subscriber you could try seeing if the ROH gate goes up when they have NJPW guys there. I'd have thought it did but I've never checked. I doubt NJPW shows with ROH talent get any kind of bump.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
SD crowd were pretty bland, almost thought we'd taken a trip to the hallowed halls of Corpus Christi.
Interesting that SD had the NXT style situation where even notable members of its roster didn't all appear in the episode, wonder if that's a deliberate approach.

Zach said:
Oh my god, the end of the 2005 Royal Rumble. I was laughing out loud like a loon.

That being said, surprisingly good Rumble. Like, without looking back to be sure, I feel like it's maybe in the Top Three. Definitely in my Fave Five, at least.
Click to expand...

Also has Snitsky's crowning moment of just obliterating Paul London.
And 'cism, poor Hassan.
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
Sir_Crocodile said:
This isn't absolute of course, I think it's a matter of ROH fans knowing who's good in NJPW, so them already being over before they make their first ROH appearance, whereas NJPW fans aren't paying attention to ROH, so their stars would need to work at NJPW events for a while to get over.
Click to expand...

Yeah, relatively there's far more fans of Japanese wrestling in the US than there are fans of US indies in Japan. The Lethal thing was unfortunate, as he really could've done with a bigger introduction and isn't the flashiest wrestler to immediately win over a crowd.

Sir_Crocodile said:
If you're an observer subscriber you could try seeing if the ROH gate goes up when they have NJPW guys there. I'd have thought it did but I've never checked. I doubt NJPW shows with ROH talent get any kind of bump.
Click to expand...

There's definitely a bump for ROH whenever NJPW come over, but it's hard to say as ROH often reports exaggerated numbers.
 
T

TarpitCarnivore

Member
A question for some of you who are more well versed in indies and their histories, why is it that ones like ROH and Chikara seem to be a shell of their former selves? I guess this goes for Jersey All Pro too. They all seemed to be white hot and then have fizzled out in their overall popularity. Going further, how is it that ones like PWG or Evolve manage to get the biggest talent, esp PWG who seem to only have such small amount of shows.
 
F

FlammableD

Banned
TarpitCarnivore said:
A question for some of you who are more well versed in indies and their histories, why is it that ones like ROH and Chikara seem to be a shell of their former selves? I guess this goes for Jersey All Pro too. They all seemed to be white hot and then have fizzled out in their overall popularity. Going further, how is it that ones like PWG or Evolve manage to get the biggest talent, esp PWG who seem to only have such small amount of shows.
Click to expand...
Can't really comment on Jersey All Pro

ROH: Got TV, brought in some dodgy booking. Also been raided by WWE. Have restrictive contracts, so people are sometimes hesitant to sign
CHIKARA: Shut down for a year while they were arguably at their hottest, then came back a lot smaller and more stripped down.

PWG get the best talent cause that's their MO, they run shows on the cheap to be the super indy, and make that money on DVD's
EVOLVE have hype and a streaming infrastructure, along with less restrictive contracts (I think).
 
T

TarpitCarnivore

Member
FlammableD said:
Can't really comment on Jersey All Pro

ROH: Got TV, brought in some dodgy booking. Also been raided by WWE. Have restrictive contracts, so people are sometimes hesitant to sign
CHIKARA: Shut down for a year while they were arguably at their hottest, then came back a lot smaller and more stripped down.

PWG get the best talent cause that's their MO, they run shows on the cheap to be the super indy, and make that money on DVD's
EVOLVE have hype and a streaming infrastructure, along with less restrictive contracts (I think).
Click to expand...

I think I remember hearing about the Chikara thing. The ROH one is surprising to me because I feel like I recall them being super hot with a ton of talent early on.
 
A

avengers23

Banned
Sir_Crocodile said:
ROH fans see NJPW stars as a huge deal
NJPW fans don't see ROH stars as a huge deal

So the relative positions on the cards make sense. You saw the crowd reaction to Lethal when he had to sub for Elgin against Naito in the NJPW main event a few months back.

This isn't absolute of course, I think it's a matter of ROH fans knowing who's good in NJPW, so them already being over before they make their first ROH appearance, whereas NJPW fans aren't paying attention to ROH, so their stars would need to work at NJPW events for a while to get over.

If you're an observer subscriber you could try seeing if the ROH gate goes up when they have NJPW guys there. I'd have thought it did but I've never checked. I doubt NJPW shows with ROH talent get any kind of bump.
Click to expand...

There is also the issue of diminishing returns for the NJPW top guys coming to ROH shows, but I'd need to see the receipts to confirm that's an actual issue.

ROH can also sell its connections to NJPW to wrestlers as a perk.
 
Z

Zach

Member
Nocturnowl said:
Also has Snitsky's crowning moment of just obliterating Paul London.
And 'cism, poor Hassan.
Click to expand...
Yeah, London sold that beautifully.

And I was like "wow, this is some great heat for Hassan. And he's such a heel that everyone wants to gang up on him and throw him out. Oh, but he's a bad guy because he's an Arab-American who feels discriminated against... Yikes."
 
J

Jamie OD

Member
FlammableD said:
C2c7jq_XEAAdcjV.jpg:large
Click to expand...

What promotions did they convince to get involved with this? Would the Japan tournament be Suzuki-gun related? Who do they have in Germany and Scotland that isn't tied to wXw and ICW? This looks like a crazy idea. I at least dig the logo. Looks like something the Rugby World Cup would use.
 
A

avengers23

Banned
TarpitCarnivore said:
A question for some of you who are more well versed in indies and their histories, why is it that ones like ROH and Chikara seem to be a shell of their former selves? I guess this goes for Jersey All Pro too. They all seemed to be white hot and then have fizzled out in their overall popularity. Going further, how is it that ones like PWG or Evolve manage to get the biggest talent, esp PWG who seem to only have such small amount of shows.
Click to expand...

Jersey All Pro never had the resources to compete with ROH once ROH hit its stride. So, JAPW was relegated to running small New Jersey venues with mostly local talent with the occasional wrestler who work the Northeast circuit.

Then, by all accounts, Fat Frank basically sank the company with its New Japan/JAPW show. JPAW shut down from 2010 to 2012, and even then they couldn't run shows frequently. Fat Frank died in 2015. I think someone is trying to keep JAPW alive with small shows, but it never recovered from the NJPW debacle.
 
A

ANuclearError

Member
Jamie OD said:
What promotions did they convince to get involved with this? Would the Japan tournament be Suzuki-gun related? Who do they have in Germany and Scotland that isn't tied to wXw and ICW? This looks like a crazy idea. I at least dig the logo. Looks like something the Rugby World Cup would use.
Click to expand...

They have to be able to use ICW people for this to work.

WCPW are doing an Edinburgh show on the 29th of January, ICW are just doing a small awards show that day instead of a proper show that day in Glasgow. The Scottish people confirmed to appear at WCPW are:

Drew Galloway
Joe Hendry
Joe Coffey
BT Gunn

So I'm guessing they're all in. I would also assume that Mark Coffey will take part too. Maybe Jackie Polo as well.

However, I guess this all depends on what sort of deal WWE end up having with ICW.
 
A

Aeternus Malum

Member
TarpitCarnivore said:
A question for some of you who are more well versed in indies and their histories, why is it that ones like ROH and Chikara seem to be a shell of their former selves? I guess this goes for Jersey All Pro too. They all seemed to be white hot and then have fizzled out in their overall popularity. Going further, how is it that ones like PWG or Evolve manage to get the biggest talent, esp PWG who seem to only have such small amount of shows.
Click to expand...

JAPW was one of the biggest indies in the late 90s that even guys like Stone Cold and Paul Heyman were attracted to. It was featured in every NJ newspaper and major television networks across the country in some form or fashion. But the hardcore style was scrutinized by local authorities and they were eventually blocked from running shows in certain areas and sort of just died.

avengers23 said:
Jersey All Pro never had the resources to compete with ROH once ROH hit its stride. So, JAPW was relegated to running small New Jersey venues with mostly local talent with the occasional wrestler who work the Northeast circuit.

Then, by all accounts, Fat Frank basically sank the company with its New Japan/JAPW show. JPAW shut down from 2010 to 2012, and even then they couldn't run shows frequently. Fat Frank died in 2015. I think someone is trying to keep JAPW alive with small shows, but it never recovered from the NJPW debacle.
Click to expand...

So NJPW kills US promotions.
 
R

Recall

Member
NJPW uses ROH to allow its roster to have experience elsewhere. ROH need NJPW way more than NJPW need ROH.

ROH turned to shit in late 2006 when Gabe ran out of ideas.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
vince or dunn finally watched an episode of talking smack, realized bryan, who wants to be released by any means possible so he can work strong style in japan, kept shooting and shitting on storylines and creative. he was quickly replaced by pr mouthpiece shane mcmahon, effectively eliminating any of the appeal of talking smack.
 
K

klonere

Banned
Jamie OD said:
What promotions did they convince to get involved with this? Would the Japan tournament be Suzuki-gun related? Who do they have in Germany and Scotland that isn't tied to wXw and ICW? This looks like a crazy idea. I at least dig the logo. Looks like something the Rugby World Cup would use.
Click to expand...

I know WCPW get a lot of shit for being money marks and running self-aggrandizing angles or whatever but my god are they fucking going for it with whatever this is. Super ambitious.
 
F

Foggy

Member
Bryan's stuff in Talking Smack was always untennable. If he's maintaining the kayfabe facade of a general manager, shooting on shitty booking or the reliance on part-timers, but then doing nothing in kayfabe...then what's the point?
 
H

Heroman

Banned
Beefy said:
Is it really that bad? I have never watched it. Is it just a hour of the cruiserweight matches that are on Raw with no story build up?
Click to expand...
It a show with guys with no heat having mostly mediocre with the occasional good matches in front of what seems like 205 people.
 
H

Hasney

Member
Foggy said:
Bryan's stuff in Talking Smack was always untennable. If he's maintaining the kayfabe facade of a general manager, shooting on shitty booking or the reliance on part-timers, but then doing nothing in kayfabe...then what's the point?
Click to expand...

It's entertaining? Isn't that the point of programming?
 
K

klonere

Banned
Foggy said:
Bryan's stuff in Talking Smack was always untennable. If he's maintaining the kayfabe facade of a general manager, shooting on shitty booking or the reliance on part-timers, but then doing nothing in kayfabe...then what's the point?
Click to expand...

because it was entertaining as fuck and he got performers to set up and really think about their characters in a deeper manner which is super important.
 
R

Recall

Member
It's a shame the New Generation Project Podcast has stopped, no idea fully as to why except they just apologised for the lack of content. Wonder when it will return?
 
F

Foggy

Member
Hasney said:
It's entertaining? Isn't that the point of programming?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's incendiary to think that his stances could and should pay off in a tangible way. Instead it just comes across as empty pandering. He's echoing how a lot of hardcore fans feel, but then things just play out as if the show isn't even happening.

klonere said:
because it was entertaining as fuck and he got performers to set up and really think about their characters in a deeper manner which is super important.
Click to expand...

I'm not criticizing the show itself, I'm fine with the show. Just Bryan taking on the posture of someone who is sick with how things are run, being in a kayfabe position to have some small amount of control and then business just carries on. So either they were going to take him off or he was just going to parrot the same stuff and things keep rolling on.

If I'm off-base, educate me.
 
H

Hasney

Member
Foggy said:
I don't think it's incendiary to think that his stances could and should pay off in a tangible way. Instead it just comes across as empty pandering. He's echoing how a lot of hardcore fans feel, but then things just play out as if the show isn't even happening.
Click to expand...

Does it need to pay off? Or can we just have half an hour where they don't treat us like idiots?
 
P

Pikma

Banned
Beefy said:
Is it really that bad? I have never watched it. Is it just a hour of the cruiserweight matches that are on Raw with no story build up?
Click to expand...
The first few weeks were pretty boring but it has gotten a lot better, especially since the arrival of Evil Neville
Foggy said:
Bryan's stuff in Talking Smack was always untennable. If he's maintaining the kayfabe facade of a general manager, shooting on shitty booking or the reliance on part-timers, but then doing nothing in kayfabe...then what's the point?
Click to expand...
The booking has gotten a lot better in SD since he became kayfabe gm, so it actually makes sense. I mean, unless you expect him to say fuck Vince and and grow a ridiculously big storyline from there but I'm not sure why would someone expect that from Talking Smack, because that's not the point of the show
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

August Wrasslin' |OT| I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU-LY
397 398 399 400 401
20K
845K
SomewhatGroovy replied
January Wrasslin' |OT2| Big Month Meltz
79 80 81 82 83
4K
153K
Marvel replied
July Wrasslin' |OT| All this G1 talk is making me Climax.
400 401 402 403 404
20K
895K
klonere replied
February Wrasslin' |OT| Observe THIS, Brother!
401 402 403 404 405
20K
767K
Rimfya replied
June Wrasslin' |OT| Break Out Naan And Do The Needful, It's Time For MaharaJEEEEEZUSS
369 370 371 372 373
19K
784K
Hex replied
Top Bottom