I doubt gedo and kindai would push him like they did if was saying.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
January Wrasslin' |OT| Big Month John
- Thread starter Biggest-Geek-Ever
- Start date
Roman is the wrestler Vince is currently trying to live vicariously through
Roman as champ drew pretty poorly, especially house show attendance, which is funny since Vince in the past has made strong house show attendance a criteria for who the current top guy is.
No idea about his merch sales.
Vince loves him
I'm willing to bet he has decent merch numbers but his drawing power has been suspect.
The real reason behind his huge face push is because Vince wants to prove he isn't out of touch and can make a new star
He is like top 2 merchandise.
ofc WWE has the financial power to completely run over NJPW, I'm saying that it would be a critical blow to NJPW if Kenny were to go at this stage and probably stop significant pushes of gajin for a very long time, which would be sad.
If WWE are serious about getting Kenny (I doubt they are going full court press for him but you never know) then Kidani would probably have to leverage some Bushiroad money to keep him I'd say.
John Cena still absolutely decimates him when it comes to merch. But Cena is of course long known for his ridiculous merch selling.
PositiveGamer
Member
BewareTheBatsie
Member
So was it Vince or Triple H's idea for Roman to be the most pushed member of the Shield?
I imagine both.
Don't mind Zach he gave the GOAT Wrestlemania 17 a C-.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The actual problem is that Vince desperately wants a new Cena/Rock/Austin (because the company desperately needs one) and turning Roman would mean resigning yourself to admitting he's basically on the Kevin Owens level for the foreseeable future. Owens is someone who can main event a PPV or even hold a title, but he isn't anything close to a franchise building star. Vince's IDEA isn't wrong (because the profitability of the company will in jeopardy in 5-10 years if they don't find someone like that), but he's fucked up the execution and it seems to have become a sunk-costs fallacy in that he spent a lot of effort pushing Roman as a babyface.
This isn't Roman's fault, so it's a little unfair to him, but part of the reason Roman is so high in merch sales is because there are basically no other big stars in the company. Like, if Daniel Bryan was still wrestling or CM Punk was still in the company they'd likely be smashing Roman in merch sales.
I disagree. I see big money in a properly executed Heel Roman. You need a heel with strong appeal to make faces that are true stars. You also need a heel people want to cheer against, which is the major flaw with Kevin Owens.
But yes, Vince absolutely has hurt Roman and the company as a whole with his some of his ridiculously bad face pushes.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
I imagine both more leaning towards Vince though. I didn't mind Reigns when he was with the sheild he was quite good, then they gave him a mic and made him a babyface. Make him a piece of shit heel and scrap the mic
PositiveGamer
Member
In the WWE alone?
In no particular order
AJ Styles, Finn Balor, Chris Jericho, Bobby Roode, and Nikamura..
No.. I am not not an indie junkie.. I come from the Attitude era (Rock, Austin etc) but I can recognize talent from a mile away.. And Roman has negative 0. Again just in my humble opinion
Conor McGregor is the biggest draw in combat sports and he is absolute and utter cunt. I mean he's just Ric Flair with a bad accent and a rougher kinda charm but a tweener at the top of your company can totally work in the year of our lord 2k17.
Giving Roman more heel like tendencies would probably end up getting him cheered more in the end sooo JUST FUCKING DO IT ITS BEEN 3 FUCKING YEARS.
Giving Roman more heel like tendencies would probably end up getting him cheered more in the end sooo JUST FUCKING DO IT ITS BEEN 3 FUCKING YEARS.
Ironically I think turning Roman heel would make Roman a bigger star because it would result in Roman acting a little more natural and have a better on screen personality. Vince desperately wants a new Cena/Rock/Austin but he seems to forget that all three of them got most of their mega star momentum during heel pushes, not as squeaky clean baby faces. Vince just doesn't want to turn Roman heel because it would be an admission that Roman's face push failed. Almost every mega star in professional wrestling either had their career made or revitalized thanks to turning heel.
Flair - Most of his career was spent as a heel
Hogan - Not the best example but his career was stalling until the nWo angle happened, and that was arguably the biggest point in his career.
HBK - His career went next level by turning heel and superkicking Marty Jannetty's soul away
Rock - His career was dead in the water until "DIE ROCKY DIE". All of his momentum happened as a heel
Austin - Became over as absolute fuck as a heel, and honestly his face work was primarily just being a heel that did shit to worse heels
Cena - Career was also dead in the water, then he became a heel rapper.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
Yup. You see the fans occasionally get behind Roman, and its normally when he flips out and goes full monster/heel. The problem is every time he gets any type of momentum they immediately go back to doing what doesn't work. Asshole/monster Reigns works. Crackin wise/super babyface Reigns doesn't.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Just wondering because I always see both tossed around. Wasn't there a rumor once that Vince wanted Big-E to get a huge push but Triple H convinced him to go with Roman?
I can definitely see Triple H being behind it given that Shield was his personal project and not Vince's.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
If they offered him what Meltzer apparently said they offered him (I didn't hear him say that specifically), I think he's out the door. NJPW isn't coming close to that kind of money and honestly, the NJPW expansion plan is a huge disaster in the making.
Is Nikamura Nakamura's evil twin?In the WWE alone?
In no particular order
AJ Styles, Finn Balor, Chris Jericho, Bobby Roode, and Nikamura..
No.. I am not not an indie junkie.. I come from the Attitude era (Rock, Austin etc) but I can recognize talent from a mile away.. And Roman has negative 0. Again just in my humble opinion
*queue video montage of all the times Ambrose got annihilated with no Roman in sight*
PositiveGamer
Member
Oh.. What a sad gafer we have here....
Zach is a troubled human being but we love him.
Yeah, I think the US expansion is ill advised as well. Naito is right goddamnit, get it back to where you can sell out the Dome and bring back the old days of running it more than once a year!
Whomever's original idea it was, it was Vince that has put together the awful face pushes and then refused to change course when it kept failing.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't disagree that it would help his career trajectory to turn heel. That said, I can only surmise the behind-the-scenes issue is not wanting to "waste" the rest of his babyface push (including 2 Mania main events) because otherwise you have to assume Vince is legitimately out of his mind.
You've made a powerful enemy today, PositiveGamer.
The baby face push where Reigns has been booed as a face for the past 3 years? Can't let that huge success go to waste!
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
This is what i see the most and what is sad. Sometimes Reigns will act like a little shit and get cheered then vince is like "look he is getting cheers we are building him up" then he cuts one of his lame baby face promos and its downhill again
I think it depends as well. Money is one part of it, though it is big option sometimes people will turn it down for various reasons. Kenny being the star he is in new japan means he is in charge of his character etc. He already puts on good matches as well. However he is also addicted to the culture there as well. There are many factors than just money at times
The man is 71 years old, had a very bizarre relationship with his parents, has demonstrated relatively odd disconnects from reality most of his adult life, and wanted to do an incest angle with his daughter. He's probably a bit cuckoo
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Bless the few moments where Roman's just a bit of an asshole babyface. Much better then the happy go lucky babyface.
^ Exactly. Make him an asshole character and he's golden. What klonere said is pretty spot on, Conor McGregor is the biggest draw in UFC history and the dude is the biggest asshole in existence and people fucking love it
Floyd Mayweather is probably the biggest draw in boxing history and most of his drawing power is based around making people want to see him lose.
Floyd Mayweather is probably the biggest draw in boxing history and most of his drawing power is based around making people want to see him lose.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
Bless the few moments where Roman's just a bit of an asshole babyface. Much better then the happy go lucky babyface.
and you see he didnt even need to talk there!
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I can only guess at 2 possibilities here:
1) Vince thinks if he keeps pushing Roman hard the fans will eventually get behind him.
2) Vince thinks a reaction is a reaction and that modern wrestling fans will almost always give a mixed boo/cheer reaction to white meat babyfaces even when they're a big deal.
How much does his character even really matter in a country where nobody speaks his language?
Honestly, I'm struggling to think of anyone who shied away from WWE money. You can't work those NJPW matches forever to begin with - there's a reason why I think Will Ospreay will never make it to WWE, and its not money or interest. Dude is going to be medically unable to compete in 5 years at this rate. That's why I always sigh a little when people parrot the "WWE schedule so hard" thing. You don't have to work that hard in house-show matches. It's 15 minutes of Nakamura-esque mailing it in, not 450 springboard splashes to tables. And that's fine, you only need to turn it on for big events.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Someone over the age of 35 really is gonna win the rumble.
It was pretty funny. Every time the crowd actually got super behind Roman in a segment, when he was just fucking shit up and acting very heelish, Vince took at as a sign of "THE PEOPLE FINALLY LOVE MY CHOSEN ONE. I KNEW IT! ROMAN MEGA BABY FACE FUCK YEAH!". So he keeps pushing him as a face thinking all is good now, completely oblivious to what people were actually excited about.
Probably #2. Cena's success despite that exact issue has probably severely warped his ability to read crowds.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
Reigns is never going to be the guy they want him to be, but he could be the next Orton? I mean, thats not a terrible place to be. As much as it pains me because he is boring as shit, Finn is going to be the guy that they want. If he stays healthy that dude is a merch selling machine.
Sting is def retired.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
yep this is how you know Vince has lost touch with his fans, its what he wants not what the fans want. Punk said it best Vince is a millionaire who should be a billionaire, vince's downfall is that he lost touch with the business and is stubborn as hell. He would rather kill something than admit he was wrong.
Like someone also posted above for such superstars as rock, austin etc. They became as big as they are because of their heel turns. Austin hit it out of the park he was a heel you wanted to cheer for
I'd rather String keep the ability to use his arms and legs.