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[SHOCKIE]

Its funny that the drop in the bucket is selling more consoles and more games than sony :lol

Huh???

 

[Kobold]

Huh???

In the US....

 

[ThirdEye]

The other big factor for the Japanese is that the XB2 dev kits are out there and the software tools are in an advanced state. Sony are _still_ giving presentations to big name companies , showing very basic versions of the tools that will be coming "later". This isn't what the developers want to see at this stage of the game , and any nervous developers are going to make sure they at least have something to sell when the next gen comes - and it looks like Xbox 2 will be hitting the ground running first.

Obviously you forget something.

You can buy NDS and PSP. Now. AND they are fairly new and growing. The PS2 platform is ripe, waiting to be reaped. If the PS3 is scheduled 6 months after the Xenon launch (Q4 2005 for Xenon, Q1 2006 for PS3), developers can do wait-and-see for some time. Especially big boys some of you guys are interested in can do that, so you may as well hope smaller startup companies jump on the Xenon wagon in Japan. They are more likely to jump on the money from Microsoft, even if the amount is not that decent (for big boys, anyway). They are cheaper to buy for MS. Companies set up by ex-(insert a famous company name with brands) people are popular targets.

In addition, the PS2 hardware sales are dropping, but it doesn't mean the user base are decreasing right now. FF12 will be on sale near the Xenon launch, too.

 

[jarrod]

That guy was stupid enough to release PSO cards battle exclusively on NGC. Hopefully this game did not cost too much, as it should be one the worst selling Sega game on NGC. I don't say it would have sold hundreds of thousands on other platforms, but still when you already have the PSO engine running on Xbox and PC, why release the game only ONE platform, especially one where online games are totally absent.

He likely went GC only because it has the largest PSO base (as that's where the PSO base mainly moved after Dreamcast) and the Xbox version tanked at retail, so he likely decided not to bother there. Personally, I'd say making the game at all was more foolish than the platform selection (PSO card game?), meanwhile the "real" PSO sequel goes to PC exclusively with Episode IV. :/

As for Sonic Heroes, yes it was released on all 3 consoles. I don't know about the PS2 version but my version on Xbox had so much slowdowns it became almost unplayable at times. Only the NGC one ran correctly as far as I remember. Naka has a big (and I mean BIG) preference for Nintendo and I'm pretty sure he was pissed off when his management forced him to make Sonic Heroes on all 3 platforms.

Bzzt, sorry. Sonic Heroes was conceptualized while the Sega divisions were still fiscally independant. Unless Naka wanted it, Sonic Heroes wouldn't have been multiplatform. Same goes for PSO1&2 and Puyo Puyo Fever.

Sonic Team's one of the better divisions at Sega when it comes to multiconsole support. I'd say the best actually, there's far more other games that deserved porting before PSO Card Battle, and a healthy selection of them were underperformers on Xbox (Crazy Taxi 3, HOTD3, Panzer Orta, JSRF, Outrun 2, TJ&E3, etc). Unflinching Xbox support has actually sunk a few Sega teams (Smilebit's nonsports staff were absorbed by the highly profitable, GameCube centric Amusement Vision, TJ&E Productions was shut down completely). It's laughable you're singling out Naka here in the face of much worse decisions from companies like those, at least Naka actually made some income off his main platform preference. As a whole, their Xbox support (stemming from that prelaunch 10 game deal) has been Sega's worst move since the 3rd party shift.

 

[jedimike]

That's all in the past jarrod... Sega didn't have a lot of success on Xbox, but that hasn't slowed them down. They keep supporting the Xbox and now that Sammy is running the show, there is no doubt that Xenon will see continued Sammy/Sega support. Sammy has made it well known that they want to crack the Western market.

My gaming tastes tend to lie more with Western developers, but I would love to see more Japanese support. Not so much from established franchises... but I want to see more original titles. I don't want to see Final Fantasy on Xenon, I want to see what the Square/Enix folks develop because they are tired of making Final Fantasy games.

 

[duckroll]

In the US....

Huh????

 

[jarrod]

That's all in the past jarrod...

As was PSO Card Battle. Again, it's just that Blimblim's criticism of Naka in particular at Sega is horribly off the mark. Naka's the least of their problems, he's rather forward thinking for a Sega team head in terms of multiplatform support. I expect all Sonic, PSO and Puyo games to be on multiple platforms form here on out really.

Sega didn't have a lot of success on Xbox, but that hasn't slowed them down.

Tell that to Smilebit and TJ&E productions.

They keep supporting the Xbox and now that Sammy is running the show, there is no doubt that Xenon will see continued Sammy/Sega support. Sammy has made it well known that they want to crack the Western market.

I agree here and really I don't think it was support in general of Xbox that was Sega's big mistake, but rather the particular selection of exclusives they sacrificed to it. They never should've agreed to that 10 game deal, rather they should've ignored exclusives in general and just ported stuff like Virtua Fighter and Sonic everywhere from the start.

 

[sonycowboy]

Its funny that the drop in the bucket is selling more consoles and more games than sony :lol

Selling more consoles? When compared to shortages? Let's wait a couple of months and see what happens, shall we? And it's still being outsold 4-1 in Europe and I'm sure you don't want to talk about Japan, right? :lol

And how do you get more games?

Sony sold 2.4* more games that Xbox in December, which was the absolute best performance the Xbox has ever had relative to the PS2. And , as stated earlier, the disparity is much, much greater outside of the US.

Finally, the tie ratio is significantly better for the PS2 than the Xbox.

But, thanks for the attempt at spreading ignorance. Always appreciated.

 

[jedimike]

I agree here and really I don't think it was support in general of Xbox that was Sega's big mistake, but rather the particular selection of exclusives they sacrificed to it. They never should've agreed to that 10 game deal, rather they should've ignored exclusives in general and just ported stuff like Virtua Fighter and Sonic everywhere from the start.

Yep. Sega and MS assumed that the Dreamcast market would default to Xbox. So Dreamcast hits became Xbox wannabe hits. Those titles would have done much better on GC. Oh well, hind sight is 20/20.

 

[The End]

JSRF and PDO would have sold much, much better on the PS2.

 

[Blimblim]

He likely went GC only because it has the largest PSO base (as that's where the PSO base mainly moved after Dreamcast) and the Xbox version tanked at retail, so he likely decided not to bother there. Personally, I'd say making the game at all was more foolish than the platform selection (PSO card game?), meanwhile the "real" PSO sequel goes to PC exclusively with Episode IV. :/

Sonic Team did a lot of things wrong with how they managed PSO, be it on Xbox or PC or how they went to that stupid card game idea. WTF were they thinking ?

Bzzt, sorry. Sonic Heroes was conceptualized while the Sega divisions were still fiscally independant. Unless Naka wanted it, Sonic Heroes wouldn't have been multiplatform. Same goes for PSO1&2 and Puyo Puyo Fever.

I stand corrected, but that does not explain why both PS2 and Xbox versions were so badly handled. I can understand the PS2 version being toned down from the reference platform, but the Xbox version had no reason to have that many slowdowns. It's nice to support the system, but pissing off the buyers is certainly not the best way to create a fanbase.

Sonic Team's one of the better divisions at Sega when it comes to multiconsole support. I'd say the best actually, there's far more other games that deserved porting before PSO Card Battle, and a healthy selection of them were underperformers on Xbox (Crazy Taxi 3, HOTD3, Panzer Orta, JSRF, Outrun 2, TJ&E3, etc). Unflinching Xbox support has actually sunk a few Sega teams (Smilebit's nonsports staff were absorbed by the highly profitable, GameCube centric Amusement Vision, TJ&E Productions was shut down completely). It's laughable you're singling out Naka here in the face of much worse decisions from companies like those, at least Naka actually made some income off his main platform preference. As a whole, their Xbox support (stemming from that prelaunch 10 game deal) has been Sega's worst move since the 3rd party shift.

MS sure paid a lot of money for that 10 games deal, I don't think Sega lost that much when the games tanked (did they tank that much anyway ? For such a niche game I think PDO did alright). Some games were very good (Smilebit), some average at best (Sega GT), others simple ports. We'll see what they'll do for Xbox and Xbox 2 in the future. It's been a long time since the old Smilebit team did not show anything.

 

[jarrod]

JSRF and PDO would have sold much, much better on the PS2.

I think HOTD3, Crazy Taxi 3 and Panzer Orta would've made the most gains from a switch to PS2. JSRF likely would've done really well on GameCube too.

Then again, I bet VF4, Shibobi or PSO would've doubled sales by going multiplatform right away. Maybe even Sonic could've built a larger fanbase had it not been restricted to GameCube so long.... Sega's really fucked things with their "platform agnostic" hypocracy.

 

[callous]

for reference. Ridge Racer will not be at the xenon launch, or anywhere near the system for atleast a year after it comes out.

i know for a fact that the game has been in development since July, but not for xenon, or any current gen systems.

Then it must be for Revolution!

 

[DarienA]

Its funny that the drop in the bucket is selling more consoles and more games than sony :lol

More games? No. More consoles? Yes.(In the US), the ratio in Japan is pitiful. Some would attribute the console sales drop to the fact that the PS2 is a year older therefore a year ahead in it's "decline" cycle.

 

[Shig]

US is now the dominant market, and Japanese developers acknowledge that. Ipso facto, even if it bombs in Japan (again) initially, if Xbox2 has a successful launch here and closes the gap with Sony a good bit (which is likely), we'll see more support from Japanese 3rd parties. They won't just ignore a successful console in the largest market. It doesn't mean they'll give exclusives, mind you, but there will be ports of a lot of stuff that, were it released this gen, would have stayed on Sony's console.

 

[gamergirly]

I think HOTD3, Crazy Taxi 3 and Panzer Orta would've made the most gains from a switch to PS2. JSRF likely would've done really well on GameCube too.

Then again, I bet VF4, Shibobi or PSO would've doubled sales by going multiplatform right away. Maybe even Sonic could've built a larger fanbase had it not been restricted to GameCube so long.... Sega's really fucked things with their "platform agnostic" hypocracy.

True, but of all the Sega "established" non-sports franchises, Sonic has been the one that has performed the best, on Gamecube that is.

 

[Azih]

The problem here is twofold

Japanese devs would love to take advantage of the new gamers that the Xbox franchise has attracted but they're not very interested in Japanese games.

Microsoft would love to get at least a decent amount of the Japanese market, but japanese gamers just aren't interested either.

Frankly I dont' think either the devs or MS have any idea how to solve their problems, hell neither do I.

 

[callous]

Why are people wishing for company X to make game Y a Xbox/ Xbox2 title? I can't count how many times have I seen Xbox fans dreaming about GTA5, FF13 or even MARIO (after Nintendo goes 3rd party) being exclusive to Xbox 2.
And I have YET to see one person saying "I wish Halo 3 would come to PS3, I wish Fable 2 to go multiplatform etc.". It's always the Xbox fans writing, always wishing for that one title exclusive to Sony or Nintendo... I just can't understand it. The massive pro-Xbox love and anti-everything else hate.

Maybe someone will explain this to me?

Assuming this is the truth, the logical conclusion would be that Xbox-only owners, whether they like to admit it/are aware of it or not, are unhappy with the lack of Japanese support.

At the same time you would have to conclude that PS2/GC owners are quite happy with what their consoles have to offer.

Hey, that happens to be just how I feel, too! Remarkable.

 

[jarrod]

Sonic Team did a lot of things wrong with how they managed PSO, be it on Xbox or PC or how they went to that stupid card game idea. WTF were they thinking ?

I dunno, Sonic Team's made it's share of mistakes too... but they're hardly the worst division at Sega in this regard.

I stand corrected, but that does not explain why both PS2 and Xbox versions were so badly handled. I can understand the PS2 version being toned down from the reference platform, but the Xbox version had no reason to have that many slowdowns. It's nice to support the system, but pissing off the buyers is certainly not the best way to create a fanbase.

They were likely buggy because ST was rushing everything to make the holiday season. And they missed that slightly too. I'd imagine the GC version came out best as it was the base platform for development and Sonic Team had the most experince with the machine.

MS sure paid a lot of money for that 10 games deal, I don't think Sega lost that much when the games tanked

My understanding was that Sega was paid nothing, rather they saw a drastically reduced overall license fee for all their Xbox releases. The Sega GT/JSRF bundle was Microsoft's way of salvaging the relationship after all the esclusives tanked hard (as Sega was paid directly for the 1 million copies used in the bundle).

Smilebit reps in an old Tokyopia interview revealed Sega had not been "paid" directly for their exclusives and the divisions were funding Xbox R&D themselves.

(did they tank that much anyway ? For such a niche game I think PDO did alright).

Both the Saturn Panzer shooters broke a million worldwide for comparison. Panzer 1 sold 800k in Japan alone (Zwei broke 500k).... Orta on the other hand won't break 200k worldwide.

Some games were very good (Smilebit), some average at best (Sega GT), others simple ports.

None of the 10 games were simple ports. All were Xbox exclusives by the definition of the deal... we don't know exactly which games were included but I suspect...

01 Jet Set Radio Future (Smilebit)
02 GunValkyrie (Smilebit)
03 Sega Sports World Series Baseball (Visual Concepts/Blue Shift)
04 Crazy Taxi 3: High Roller (Hitmaker!)
05 Sega GT 2002 (Wow Entertainment)
06 The House of the Dead III (Wow Entertainment)
07 ToeJam & Earl 3: Mission to Earth (Visual Concepts/TJ&E Productions)
08 Panzer Dragoon Orta (Smilebit)
09 Sega GT Online (Wow Entertainment)
10 SpikeOut: Battle Street (Amusement Vision)

We'll see what they'll do for Xbox and Xbox 2 in the future. It's been a long time since the old Smilebit team did not show anything.

They're doing Shining Force Neo on PS2. They also handled the GBA Shining Force remake.

 

[Redbeard]

Assuming this is the truth, the logical conclusion would be that Xbox-only owners, whether they like to admit it/are aware of it or not, are unhappy with the lack of Japanese support.

I would be, too.

Or perhaps that non-Xbox owners are unwilling to admit the greatness of said Xbox games.

 

[callous]

Or perhaps that non-Xbox owners are unwilling to admit the greatness of said Xbox games.

IN UR DWEAMS, PAL!!

 

[Blimblim]

I dunno, Sonic Team's made it's share of mistakes too... but they're hardly the worst division at Sega in this regard.



They were likely buggy because ST was rushing everything to make the holiday season. And they missed that slightly too. I'd imagine the GC version came out best as it was the base platform for development and Sonic Team had the most experince with the machine.



My understanding was that Sega was paid nothing, rather they saw a drastically reduced overall license fee for all their Xbox releases. The Sega GT/JSRF bundle was Microsoft's way of salvaging the relationship after all the esclusives tanked hard (as Sega was paid directly for the 1 million copies used in the bundle).

Smilebit reps in an old Tokyopia interview revealed Sega had not been "paid" directly for their exclusives and the divisions were funding Xbox R&D themselves.



Both the Saturn Panzer shooters broke a million worldwide for comparison. Panzer 1 sold 800k in Japan alone (Zwei broke 500k).... Orta on the other hand won't break 200k worldwide.



None of the 10 games were simple ports. All were Xbox exclusives by the definition of the deal... we don't know exactly which games were included but I suspect...

01 Jet Set Radio Future (Smilebit)
02 GunValkyrie (Smilebit)
03 Sega Sports World Series Baseball (Visual Concepts/Blue Shift)
04 Crazy Taxi 3: High Roller (Hitmaker!)
05 Sega GT 2002 (Wow Entertainment)
06 The House of the Dead III (Wow Entertainment)
07 ToeJam & Earl 3: Mission to Earth (Visual Concepts/TJ&E Productions)
08 Panzer Dragoon Orta (Smilebit)
09 Sega GT Online (Wow Entertainment)
10 SpikeOut: Battle Street (Amusement Vision)



They're doing Shining Force Neo on PS2. They also handled the GBA Shining Force remake.

So that's what it feels like to be owned on each reply. Not as bad as I thought, but still
Good post.

 

[jarrod]

So that's what it feels like to be owned on each reply. Not as bad as I thought, but still
Good post.

Heh, sorry... I didn't mean to sound so high and mighty. Personally, I'm pretty excited to see what Sega Sammy's got cooking for Xenon (and DS/PSP too).

 

[Odnetnin]

Heh, sorry... I didn't mean to sound so high and mighty. Personally, I'm pretty excited to see what Sega Sammy's got cooking for Xenon (and DS/PSP too).

01 Jet Set Radio Future (Smilebit) - okay sequel . flawed gameplay.. lacked the oomph factor of the military attacks from JSR1 - if it had it; I'm sure it'd do better
02 GunValkyrie (Smilebit) - flawed controls. unpleasant but pretty game.
04 Crazy Taxi 3: High Roller (Hitmaker!) - audio bug in PAL copies. Not polished enough
05 Sega GT 2002 (Wow Entertainment) - slow and blurry. Not the GT killer it was made out to be
06 The House of the Dead III (Wow Entertainment) - good stuff. I like my lightgun games
07 ToeJam & Earl 3: Mission to Earth (Visual Concepts/TJ&E Productions) ugly + Nostalgia ladened but failed to be teh fun. I'm didn't play the genesis editions so the game's art just looked nasty and bad (say to a casual)
08 Panzer Dragoon Orta (Smilebit) - ungodly. FU CASUALS!
09 Sega GT Online (Wow Entertainment) - slow blurry and online
10 SpikeOut: Battle Street (Amusement Vision) - ?? didn't know it was released


that's my impressions on those titles. Took 1 I didn't play out - still its 10 titles and they more or less all tanked. What were the chances of THAT happening?

 

[Blimblim]

Heh, sorry... I didn't mean to sound so high and mighty. Personally, I'm pretty excited to see what Sega Sammy's got cooking for Xenon (and DS/PSP too).

I never said you were high and mighty, just good old fashioned ownage

 

[Deku]

That's all in the past jarrod... Sega didn't have a lot of success on Xbox, but that hasn't slowed them down.

It has actually. Sega's promise as a dominant or even 'powerful' third party force was essentially squandered when they kept releasing good games on the Xbox which tanked endelessly.

They could have created a Sega fanbase on the PS2 or nurtured the GC's niche status and earn a repuation for 'cool games' and instead they release a bunch of games that no one played.

I'd have to say it has slowed them down quite a bit.

 

[Odnetnin]

It has actually. Sega's promise as a dominant or even 'powerful' third party force was essentially squandered when they kept releasing good games on the Xbox which tanked endelessly.

They could have created a Sega fanbase on the PS2 or nurtured the GC's niche status and earn a repuation for 'cool games' and instead they release a bunch of games that no one played.

I'd have to say it has slowed them down quite a bit.

yup. From its prodigious output on DC to this. I can't recall any SEGA games in recent memory for that matter - on all consoles.

eh; are you the same dude as DEKU TREE?

 

[Kobold]

I agree, and although I love their game to be exclusive, if it doesn't actually help anyone, why bother? I would still want their game to be Xbox first though, if they port them after, good for them and I still think they should if it can be interesting financially.

But somehow I doubt that these games would have sold well anywhere... (sadly) albeith a lot better then on Xbox alone obviously.