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[Saya]

Saw it today and the more I think about it, the less I like it. I was disappointed. I went in with high expectations since I quite liked the first three Bourne films.

Definitely the worst Matt Damon Bourne film to date.

Some random thoughts:

- I actually did not have many issues with Greengrass's shaky cam style, but most of the chase scenes ran for way too long. The car chase scene in Las Vegas, especially, was ridiculous. It was too long and it was weird that SWAT van just rammed through tens of vehicles like a knife through butter and there was hardly any damage to the van at the end. Not to mention that it crashes into a casino at the end and Cassell walks away from that without much issue.
- Why did the German hipster hacker suddenly attack Jason Bourne? He knows who Bourne is because he was working with Nicky, why would you grab a pipe and try to kill him?
- Too many damn flashbacks. It was way too much. The Beirut scene must have come up like 5 times throughout the film.
- The sudden focus on Bourne/Webb's father was so forced and suddenly he was the whole mastermind behind the project? Just did not felt believable to me.
- Alicia Vikander is beautiful.
- The Snowden mentions felt like they had to make the film feel current I guess.
- Not sure how I feel about the Deep Dream plot. I think it had potential, but not much is done with it. Maybe it would be cool if Bourne found out that Aaron was a CIA plant from the very beginning and that Deep Dream was like the NSA on a whole new level. And he could've stopped that or something.
- I like my Bourne assassins not having any personal relationships to Bourne. It makes them feel more like tools of the system I guess. This time, Vincent Cassell, who I think is just referred to as "the asset", turned out to have killed Jason Bourne's father. I think that was a bit too much. I thought the angle of him being captured and tortured by enemies because Bourne leaked the Treadstone and Blackbriar projects out into the world was more than enough.

I'm curious what GAF will think of this film.

 

[Messofanego]

I'll disagree on a few things. Deep Dream (basically Google) working closely with the CIA and other intelligence services brought it some social commentary as Google and Facebook do much the same. While the new Bond movie skirted with post-Snowden but didn't really go in-depth, Jason Bourne gave some depth to it. Having a character representing that whole current conversation through the cool Riz Ahmed worked. The ExoCon (reminded me of Silicon Valley) selling out privacy-destroying devices which Bourne uses to full effect was like those military tech shows where they pimp out new products for defense companies. Dewey going on the nationalist angle with both Aaron ("selling out our country") and Bourne was his desperate defense for CIA's corrupt activities, and it felt believable considering CIA does the same and keeps to the nationalist rhetoric to brand Snowden as a terrorist and traitor.

The Las Vegas climax setpiece was 18min long, but it was multi-staged so I didn't feel it went on for too long. The car chase in a way was representing vengeance so it going on fit for me because they want to kill each other rather than be business-like like previous asset fights.

I did find the Berlin hacker trying to fight Bourne as if he had a chance, pretty funny. I get why he did it, he desperately wanted those files to do a Wikileaks-style dump.

"This time it's personal" is a cliche but here it worked for me as a contrast to previous films. No one is following protocol. Not Heather Lee, Robert Dewey, or the asset. They all have their own agendas and the in-fighting between Dewey, Heather, and the asset was fun to keep you on your toes.

Alicia Vikander was fantastic in keeping you on your emotional toes to the very end.

 

[ZeroX03]

Nicky

 

[Rymuth]

Killing off Nikki and pulling a 'I killed your father' this late into the franchise.

Fuck this movie so hard.


Also, the Asset guy was scotfree. He could've stolen any car like Bourne did, and would've gotten away with it. Instead, he stabs a military guy and steals a SWAT Truck? Genius...

 

[Infernostew]

The Deep Dream thing was so dumb it felt like they just used it as a plot device to have a big ending chase scene in Vegas (which is too long and boring).

Why did Nikki decide to fuck up Bourne's happy existence as a bum fighter for some dumb info about his dad? The plot of this film is so fucking stupid.

 

[NealMcCauley]

Agree with a lot of what's been said, but I got my money's worth (though I only paid $4.50 for a ticket). Definitely not as good as the others though.

The demolition derby on the Vegas strip didn't have much weight behind it. Yeah, it's personal and all that but the escalating destruction became more and more ludicrous. With Bourne being shot it definitely felt like they were trying to match Supremacy's Moscow chase's intensity and stakes though it never felt earned. There was never an "Oh shit" moment like this:

The one thing I really liked was Bourne asking Nicky "What's wrong?" with genuine concern. It was subtle but hinted at them trusting one another for some time. Of course she was dead ten minutes later.

Really though the big issue is it's basically the same fucking movie as the others. CIA's involved in black ops shit, Bourne gets dragged into it without knowing what's going on, CIA finds out about Bourne, tries to remove him but only pisses him off, Bourne starts investigating a small part of the plot because he really doesn't give a shit about anything else, etc. The only difference is the surveillance and tech issues the plot brings up don't seem to be fully understood by anyone involved.

I kinda hope there's another one since the ending was definitely open for a sequel, but it really needs to do something different. Keep Bourne in America and make the story small. Hell, have him face off against a CIA-backed neo-Nazi biker gang that sells meth in an op that's designed to keep rural America down. Make it old school.

 

[Tugatrix]

it's good but the franchise deserved a better sequel, this time around I had suspend disbelief a lot more than the others. The "Asset" was a terrible asset, it lacked subtlety, he just piled bodies in every second of this movie, for no reason, no real operative would act like that. Other thing that just made the movie loose focus was the social network thing, oh my gosh come on that was boring as hell

 

[Tizocc]

i honestly didnt like this movie. Came out thinking what was the point of the whole movie. I also disliked that it felt more a fight between Vikanders character and tommy lee jones than a movie about Jason Bourne.Like you pointed out the hacker attacking him for no reason was stupid ,almost as stupid as looking at stolen files while still connected to the internet what kind of rookie hackers are these?

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

I enjoyed it more than I thought I would, but yeah, it was weighed down by a boatload of issues that don't put it near the first three (or Legacy, which I feel is underrated). The social media/hackers side plots were terribly done, and seemingly only thrown into the movie to make it "relevant".

 

[M.W.]

I liked it. It's not as good as the trilogy but it was entertaining from start to finish.

 

[Henry Jones Jr]

I liked it more than I thought I would given the somewhat bad reviews. Went to an early show so I only paid $5. Got my money's worth. But yeah I had more issues with it than any of the other movies in the trilogy. Much better than Lagacy at least.

 

[MMarston]

I was disappointed with Nicky dying, not just because of her dying in the first place, but just the way it was handled. I get that Jason's already lost a lot in his life that kinda makes him accustomed to it, but he practically did the emotional equivalent of going "oh that sucks" and shrugging his shoulders.

 

[Vic_Viper]

Apparently Justin Lin (fast and furious, Star Trek beyond) is directing the next Jeremy Renner Bourne film

 

[BronsonLee]

Yo if you're a supporting character in these Bourne films you are apparently marked for fucking death every time in an abrupt and stupid manner

Doubly so if you are a gal

 

[Perfect Blue]

Too much new plotlines but I still enjoyed it decently enough. Needed more action though.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I was disappointed with Nicky dying, not just because of her dying in the first place, but just the way it was handled. I get that Jason's already lost a lot in his life that kinda makes him accustomed to it, but he practically did the emotional equivalent of going "oh that sucks" and shrugging his shoulders.

The scene in Supremacy when Marie dies is heart wrenching. The cold colors of black and green, Bourne trying to revive her, then gives one last kiss. What makes this scene, and I'm not sure if it was deliberate or not, is that you can't hear Bourne crying, because he's underwater:

 

[MMarston]

The scene in Supremacy when Marie dies is heart wrenching. The cold colors of black and green, Bourne trying to revive her, then gives one last kiss. What makes this scene, and I'm not sure if it was deliberate or not, is that you can't hear Bourne crying, because he's underwater:

Exactly

At the very least, in the case of Nicky, Bourne should've yelled "goddamnit" and punched a wall or something. But no, and it's made me realize how bland the character has become since his first film.

That said, Julia Stiles at least sold that scene well enough.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Eh. She was disposable.

So what's this I hear about this movie referencing a lot of the previous movies? I haven't seen it yet, but spoil the shit if you want. I'm seeing it Monday night.

 

[ZeroX03]

Nicky's death was poorly handled. Too similar to Supremacy, while not hitting the same emotional weight. I didn't need them to be a couple - that Ultimatum retcon was a bit odd - but it would've been nice if they'd deepened the connection. Marie's death was necessary for Supremacy, but regardless if Nicky died Bourne would've looked for answers about his dad so...

Also am I wrong or did Bourne almost crack a smile when meeting up with her?

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

- The sudden focus on Bourne/Webb's father was so forced and suddenly he was the whole mastermind behind the project?

wait whut.

 

[ZeroX03]

Yeah I can't think of a good reason for Bourne Sr. to be the head of Treadstone, other than to make finding files about him easier. Just killing him to motivate Jason is enough.

 

[BronsonLee]

Oh and they're totally starting a new trilogy with this aren't they

That's why Nicky had to go

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Kinda lame his father was the mastermind behind it all.

God I miss Brian Cox and Chris Cooper's characters. They were EASILY some of the best parts of Identity/Supremacy. Tony Gilroy said if he knew there was going to be a sequel, he would've never killed Chris Cooper's character.

 

[ZeroX03]

Oh and they're totally starting a new trilogy with this aren't they

That's why Nicky had to go

There could be more to Alicia Vikander's character, but does anyone care? Tbh after the critical and commercial reception of this one I'm not sure Damon and Greengrass would commit to more.

I actually like that Identity, Supremacy and Ultimatum were imagined as one off films. no chance of compromising the story or leaving unnecessary loose ends.

Kinda lame his father was the mastermind behind it all.

God I miss Brian Cox and Chris Cooper's characters. They were EASILY some of the best parts of Identity/Supremacy. Tony Gilroy said if he knew there was going to be a sequel, he would've never killed Chris Cooper's character.

Brian Cox in Supremacy was a God damn patriot.

Ultimatum's villains were a bit weaker. The strength, conviction and aggression the other two had weren't in Noah.

 

[MMarston]

Eh. She was disposable.

So what's this I hear about this movie referencing a lot of the previous movies? I haven't seen it yet, but spoil the shit if you want. I'm seeing it Monday night.

Well the movie does start out with a montage of kills JB's done in the previous films.

Apart from that, most of em are just throwaway references that shouldn't be that surprising (e.g. tread stone, blackbriar)

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Even Identity? Must be weird having that movie with steadycam flashbacks, then moves to the Greengrass ones. Was it jarring?

Man, Identity still has a lot of classic scenes, too. The Boat scene, sleeping on the bench, the Embassy fight scene and chase, Bourne going off on Marie in the car before the car chase, the diner scene, farmhouse scene, and ending.

 

[BronsonLee]

Identity is the best of them all by far. It's legit one of my favorite movies.

 

[Kin5290]

Oh and they're totally starting a new trilogy with this aren't they

That's why Nicky had to go

Well, Julia Stiles is 35, so clearly she's too old to play the female lead in a big budget action trilogy. She had to go.

Ugh.

 

[ZeroX03]

Even Identity? Must be weird having that movie with steadycam flashbacks, then moves to the Greengrass ones. Was it jarring?

It had the weird flashback filter that Ultimatum uses over it, you don't really notice. They might have even added shake, I can't remember.

Well, Julia Stiles is 35, so clearly she's too old to play the female lead in a big budget action trilogy. She had to go.

Ugh.

At least they gave her a tiny bit of agency on the way out.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Identity is the best of them all by far. It's legit one of my favorite movies.

Yeah, even Liman didn't like it, though admits Greengrass is a great director:

What film makes you want to spit?

xXx. Actually, change that. I'm saying The Bourne Supremacy.

But you produced the film...

I say it because they took a character I lovingly created in The Bourne Identity, 2002] and changed his back-story.

I don't get the changed his back story comment? Doesn't seem to out of the ordinary.

 

[Vic_Viper]

Is the deep dream guy the same actor that plays the kid in The Night Of?

 

[Windu]

this is what i was thinking of when watching the movie:

 

[BronsonLee]

We'vejustbeenhacked
CouldbeworsethanSnowden

Which makes Nicky better than Snowden
And all she had to do was use an old ass modem to download high-res PDFs of files in a folder called BLACK OPS

 

[Gentleman Jack]

this is what i was thinking of when watching the movie:

Corrupt their database with SQL!

The final fistfight was extremely disappointingly shot and edited. It was basically impossible to tell who was hitting what and reminded me of the last 3 liam neeson films. Like 120 cuts in what was probably 3 minutes of punching. Yeah the first movie used a similar style of cutting+shaky cam for the hand to hand but at least the action reads better because instead of simply cutting every 8 frames the camera stays on the action long enough for you to watch the punch land AND they stay on certain shots longer to keep the tempo of the fight varied.

An embarrassing and insulting movie to watch.

Also it's kind of dumb that the central nefarious plot was basically something that we've already seen telcos do in real life, so everything about the film's central dramatic arc felt ten years old.

 

[BronsonLee]

NOTHING in all of the Bourne movies is as savage as him stabbing the ever loving fuck out of that dude with a pen and breaking all of his limbs

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Oh and they're totally starting a new trilogy with this aren't they

That's why Nicky had to go

Well the actress who plays her is 35 and this is hollywood we're talking about.

 

[ZeroX03]

In fairness to the series they did have the age appropriate Joan Allen.

Alicia Vikander was 26 when filming playing a character in her early 30s who should probably be late 30s for her level of influence.

I think Julia Stiles was 19 when she was cast and she was two years younger than her character, but her character was supposed to look young as part of her cover.

 

[MMarston]

Even Identity? Must be weird having that movie with steadycam flashbacks, then moves to the Greengrass ones. Was it jarring?

Man, Identity still has a lot of classic scenes, too. The Boat scene, sleeping on the bench, the Embassy fight scene and chase, Bourne going off on Marie in the car before the car chase, the diner scene, farmhouse scene, and ending.

Yeah there were shots from his encounters with Clive Owen and the first mission on the boat

Kinda odd compared to the other shots in the montage, but all of it was under a hyper lens blur filter anyway

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Anyone else kinda bothered that the only reason Ato Essando was even in this was to dumbly react to events he wasn't party to, only to blindly rush into the final confrontation and then immediately get killed like a dumbass?

 

[ZeroX03]

Anyone else kinda bothered that the only reason Ato Essando was even in this was to dumbly react to events he wasn't party to, only to blindly rush into the final confrontation and then immediately get killed like a dumbass?

I was pleasantly surprised at seeing some non-white people in the movie, not that they did much.

 

[Jeffrey]

So what was Lee's beef with TLJ?

Wonder if I dozed over some important dialog besides "We both don't like dewey'. She just straight up fucked him up.

 

[Kahoona]

I think if you rewatch this one in a few years it will feel super dated with the Snowden / fake Google stuff. None of the other movies are topical, and that makes them timeless.

 

[The Artisan]

fuck you for killing nicky parsons off

 

[The Artisan]

Eh. She was disposable.

no she wasn't. you just hate her.

Nicky's death was poorly handled. Too similar to Supremacy, while not hitting the same emotional weight. I didn't need them to be a couple - that Ultimatum retcon was a bit odd - but it would've been nice if they'd deepened the connection. Marie's death was necessary for Supremacy, but regardless if Nicky died Bourne would've looked for answers about his dad so...

Also am I wrong or did Bourne almost crack a smile when meeting up with her?

what ultimatum retcon?

 

[MMarston]

no she wasn't. you just hate her. what ultimatum retcon?

I think he's referring to the scene in Ultimatum where Nicky implies that she and Bourne dated prior to his memory loss.

 

[jerry113]

Does anything else think Bourne Ultimatum capped the series off perfectly? All of these new sequels feel like money grubbing.

 

[MMarston]

Does anything else think Bourne Ultimatum capped the series off perfectly? All of these new sequels feel like money grubbing.

 

[ZeroX03]

I think he's referring to the scene in Ultimatum where Nicky implies that she and Bourne dated prior to his memory loss.

Yeah, it wasn't hinted at in the first two movies and then suddenly Nicky is a lot more interested in Bourne. Apparently they were going to seed it in Supremacy but it was cut so it came off as kinda jarring. Bourne didn't reciprocate so it was fine enough.

 

[firehawk12]

Killing Nicky was pretty lame. But I just assumed Stiles didn't want to be involved any more rather than them trying to replace her with a younger woman. I mean it's not like Bourne is Bond and bangs every female he meets.

That said, whatever happened to Landy? Did they kill her off in Legacy? I heard that they turned her into a traitor in that movie.

 

[SRG01]

Speaking of Nicky/Bourne, the lines between Julia Stiles and Matt Damon were pretty phoned in and wooden. It's like they were talking at each other instead of to each other.

That said, whatever happened to Landy? Did they kill her off in Legacy? I heard that they turned her into a traitor in that movie.

Landy was arrested/discredited in Legacy, if I remember correctly, and disappeared after that.