TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
The car chase at the end was so long and boring. Did nowt for me.
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Jason Bourne (Paul Greengrass, 2016) - Spoiler Thread
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The best part was how long the scene was cut when they covered maybe a half a mile. Don't do a chase on the strip when people can easily identify buildings/landmarks and realize you aren't actually going anywhere lol
The car chase felt very action hero and not Bourne at all. Chasing after villains to revenge kill them isn't a very Bourne thing to do, if you look at the kill count for these movies it's actually pretty small and mostly in defense/as an asset. Kirill's chasing Bourne in Supremacy is a better dynamic than chasing the asset into destroying half of Vegas. The series is marked by a modicum of restraint in the action and the actions of characters I feel, but there's none of that in the Vegas finale.
Didn't even realize that was a plot point until the end. I preferred Landy's motivation of just being a reasonable person.
I counted a few more than 25. It's pretty in line with Supremacy and Ultimatum. He really only talks when it's necessary.
Didn't even realize that was a plot point until the end. I preferred Landy's motivation of just being a reasonable person.
I counted a few more than 25. It's pretty in line with Supremacy and Ultimatum. He really only talks when it's necessary.
Just saw the movie earlier this afternoon. I'll preface by saying I've seen all of the previous movies but the last time I watched them was a long time ago. I wiki'ed them before I went to this so I could refresh my memory a bit.
Anyway I thought it was...decent I guess.
Maybe I'm just not used to it anymore but by god I found the shaky cam really annoying in the first 30 or so minutes of the movie, it got better after that though. The action scenes were alright, but there were so many cuts I was really confused on what was happening during some of them, especially that last scene with the "Asset." The car chase scene in LV was waaaay too long, they should have cut that a bit and it would have worked so much better.
My favorite scene might have been the build up to the shooting of the Deep Dream CEO. Was exciting imo.
Btw that whole Deep Dream storyline could have been done much better...but I guess what they did was alright.
Rest of the story wasn't anything too great. I actually really liked Vikander's character, that last scene added a bit of a twist to things. Honestly though...I felt like through 2 hours there wasn't much "progress." Like he learned about his dad and well that was pretty much it.
It was entertaining but nothing to write home about.
I wonder if they'll make another one considering this one did well at the box office?
Anyway I thought it was...decent I guess.
Maybe I'm just not used to it anymore but by god I found the shaky cam really annoying in the first 30 or so minutes of the movie, it got better after that though. The action scenes were alright, but there were so many cuts I was really confused on what was happening during some of them, especially that last scene with the "Asset." The car chase scene in LV was waaaay too long, they should have cut that a bit and it would have worked so much better.
My favorite scene might have been the build up to the shooting of the Deep Dream CEO. Was exciting imo.
Btw that whole Deep Dream storyline could have been done much better...but I guess what they did was alright.
Rest of the story wasn't anything too great. I actually really liked Vikander's character, that last scene added a bit of a twist to things. Honestly though...I felt like through 2 hours there wasn't much "progress." Like he learned about his dad and well that was pretty much it.
It was entertaining but nothing to write home about.
I wonder if they'll make another one considering this one did well at the box office?
BronsonLee
Member
IT'S A ROUNDABOUT
better than legacy , worse than the others. it was what i expected , i guess.
the only thing that still bugs me other than the stupidity of his father being behind this is when they are trying to hack the hacker...
so they find his phone open and this somehow means they immediately can access his pc's files?
the fuck was that?
i laughed a bit
the pc's locked down we cant access it , but this cell phone with a local IP is open! we can easily connect and somehow delete the files off the usb stick on the locked down pc!
also that swat van having next to no damage after all that , come on...it looked new!
the only thing that still bugs me other than the stupidity of his father being behind this is when they are trying to hack the hacker...
so they find his phone open and this somehow means they immediately can access his pc's files?
the fuck was that?
i laughed a bit
the pc's locked down we cant access it , but this cell phone with a local IP is open! we can easily connect and somehow delete the files off the usb stick on the locked down pc!
also that swat van having next to no damage after all that , come on...it looked new!
I was entertained, I can say that. It is definitely the weakest of the three 4 Damon movies. I see that many of the my issues have been brought up.
I do wonder what the point of TLJ's character endorsing the plan to try and bring Bourne in to begin with. It seemed like he could have refused it and went straight to the plan of killing Bourne.
I do wonder what the point of TLJ's character endorsing the plan to try and bring Bourne in to begin with. It seemed like he could have refused it and went straight to the plan of killing Bourne.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Came back from seeing it. Definitely the weakest of the three.
The plot was quite meaningless and could've been done without Deep Dream.
The Asset talking a lot instead of a silent assassin was actually great.
The asset killing that man in the tub was actually quite disturbing for a Bourne movie. Or at least felt different.
Bournes voice when he said "what's wrong?" was a bit sad. It showed he cared.
Bourne conflicted, and hesitating to mutter even a single word about coming back was good. A lot of emotion there, and it shows there's some part of him that wants to go back.
I really wish the entire movie dealt with the conflictions of Jason wanting to come back. No purpose in life. It seemed like they had something going about that plot line, but couldn't run with it.
Oh and it was cool seing LARX and Outcome.
The fight scene was more grounded than the first and third film. More in line with the second. Still very brutal.
The plot was quite meaningless and could've been done without Deep Dream.
The Asset talking a lot instead of a silent assassin was actually great.
The asset killing that man in the tub was actually quite disturbing for a Bourne movie. Or at least felt different.
Bournes voice when he said "what's wrong?" was a bit sad. It showed he cared.
Bourne conflicted, and hesitating to mutter even a single word about coming back was good. A lot of emotion there, and it shows there's some part of him that wants to go back.
I really wish the entire movie dealt with the conflictions of Jason wanting to come back. No purpose in life. It seemed like they had something going about that plot line, but couldn't run with it.
Oh and it was cool seing LARX and Outcome.
The fight scene was more grounded than the first and third film. More in line with the second. Still very brutal.
The Asset felt like he was out of a different series, but I guess as he predates Treadstone it makes sense that he hadn't been through the same kind of brainwashing/conditioning as the others and still had his personality intact. A fucked up personality, but that also makes sense for an assassin.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
He was apart of blackbriar. It was said he was on a mission in Syria, and when Bourne exposed the program, the asset taken prisoner, and tortured.
He also killed Jason's father, and that was before Treadstone's first induction. Although he's younger than Clive Owen, I think he's still intended to be the oldest active asset in the series to date.
Thought these exact same things.
I think they could have swapped out the deep dream stuff and had a mid-movie fight with a secondary asset a la Desh.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
True, but I still think was recruited for Blackbriar and went through all the training.
Maybe he was apart of Emerald Lake since it predates treadstone?
Maybe he was apart of Emerald Lake since it predates treadstone?
My guess is he was transferred to Blackbriar but not put through mental conditioning as he was an active and presumably effective field agent for years prior. He seems to have a rapport with Dewey and the only asset to really have a personality so I don't think he went through anything severe on the CIA's part.
I don't think Greengrass put enough thought in to consider him Emerald Lake. The asset is just a well trained guy who digs killing.
Well,
That was pointless, overproduced and shitty.
Jason Bourne seemed like a fucking idiot most of the movie. The entire plot seemed contrived, and it had over the top action set pieces which is not what this series has been about.... it was low key smart action for the most part.
This was mostly poop.
Like, world super spy can't hide for shit. Why do they want him back? He gets knocked unconscious and doesn't die by pure dumb luck 3x in this movie.
Super spy who killed Jason's day for WTF reason gets caught on camera?
WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK. Also, how would no one get caught in that damned stupid scene at the end of the movie.
One of my favorite series (I even defend Legacy as pretty ok). This was butt.
Also, that scene at the end with the new maybe CIA lady was totally fucking pointless.
WHY WAS THE CIA DIRECTOR IN A FUCKING DEBATE ABOUT SECURITY WITH THE GUY WHO HE IS TRYING TO KILL, AND WHY KILL HIM THERE?
Does the new lady not like the CIA? Does she like the CIA? Is Jason Bourne now just a big dummy who can't figure out what's happening around him?
Jesus. Jesus.
That was pointless, overproduced and shitty.
Jason Bourne seemed like a fucking idiot most of the movie. The entire plot seemed contrived, and it had over the top action set pieces which is not what this series has been about.... it was low key smart action for the most part.
This was mostly poop.
Like, world super spy can't hide for shit. Why do they want him back? He gets knocked unconscious and doesn't die by pure dumb luck 3x in this movie.
Super spy who killed Jason's day for WTF reason gets caught on camera?
WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK. Also, how would no one get caught in that damned stupid scene at the end of the movie.
One of my favorite series (I even defend Legacy as pretty ok). This was butt.
Also, that scene at the end with the new maybe CIA lady was totally fucking pointless.
WHY WAS THE CIA DIRECTOR IN A FUCKING DEBATE ABOUT SECURITY WITH THE GUY WHO HE IS TRYING TO KILL, AND WHY KILL HIM THERE?
Does the new lady not like the CIA? Does she like the CIA? Is Jason Bourne now just a big dummy who can't figure out what's happening around him?
Jesus. Jesus.
I'm not a super computer guy so all that hacking stuff went over my head, other than "enhance that!" But one thing that did stick out like a sore thumb to me was the establishing shots during the movie were constantly changing seasons. They were going back and forth from Virginia to DC and one was clearly winter with snow on the ground that the other had trees with leaves. This happens multiple times and really stuck out to me. Could they really find no stock footage to insert to make the season line up correctly?
The Artisan
Member
i interchange 2 and 3. the overall story, and car chase scene in supremacy is better than ultimatum's, but ultimatum's action overall is better and had hands down, had not only the best fight in the bourne franchise, but best in a movie, ever. bourne vs desh.
She was easily the worst part of the movie. Her motivations were half-developed, and it's like they shoehorned her duplicitous nature halfway through filming.
yeah, early movie she was a go getter who was eager to please.
Then she was so clearly working against the CIA director and no one gave a flying fuck.
Also, there was a weird plot where the CIA director had the CIA operative kill a bunch of agents instead of just hang out on a rooftop and shoot Bourne.
And then she was somehow on stage despite clearly being a low ranking CIA analyst at the beginning of the movie.
This felt like Greengrass and Damon owed someone a favor for Green Zone.
The Artisan
Member
holy fuck, and that movie flopped too
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Yeah. Steadicam wouldve been great. Or at least if you're going to use hand held do it where the camera isn't so damn close and not catching what's going on in front of you.
What I said earlier is even better than that. The CIA head agreed with the plan. He could have just said no and their plan would have been to just kill Bourne as default.
Totally agree.
I think there was a weird sub-plot with Director of National Intelligence which was not really explained and is more of a political role that reports to the president. That's the ginger dude in the car at the end of the movie.
So, I think he was made to say "yes" to the plan in from of the DNI, and then tried to go against the plan.
But given that he was already going against the plan, I don't know why they had to do it in that way, and why he trusted plucky the CIA agent after that and was going to have her on the debate stage with him after she continued to chop his nuts off in from of the DNI.
The movie is a fucking mess basically.
The DNI role also has to exist, because there always has to be some asshole who is higher up than the asshole that Bourne just got the better of or a super secret more secret than ever covert ops program going on that has a different name than the one he blew the cover off of in the prior movie.
I wish they had done something totally different here. Like Bourne trying to help out some developing nation in Africa to stop the CIA from being assholes and hurting their country to make ammends and then the CIA has to be like "damnit, it's BOURNE" and then have a movie thats not just him russling the CIAs jimmies and finding out more secrets about his life. But, I think the politics of Damon and Greengrass created a situation where the "BAD THINGS" were all old guard CIA who would have existed prior to Obama becoming president, and they tried to make the young bucks and DNI "better" than the CIA had been in prior movies while leaving Jones' character as this not at all developed grizzled old guard from a prior administration.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Honestly there was no plot. I don't think Bourne exposed anything? The asset saying Bourne was a traitor and not a patriot...a lot of missed opportunities for an interesting plot.
Yeah, it was weird.
The arc of the trilogy was
1) I don't remember who I am, oh shit I'm an asshole.
2) This girl is helping me discover humanity and I just want to be left alone.
3) They killed my only tie to my humanity, now I am going to burn it all down.
4) I kind of found a bit of humanity again at the end all on my own.
And we pick up here and he... like fights people for money? and just wants to hide to stay alive? What? And zero development to explain any of these changes in character.
I hope it's all Jeremy Renner hanging out with Google Bro hacking shit.
The way I understood this was, he took the fights to sort of punish himself for the things he did based on what Nicky said to him.
There really is some great potential stories with the Bourne character and the movie ever so little dabbled with them. There are plenty of options:
Bourne could actually come back and doing so with Landy would have made sense. Bourne could be tricked into coming back by a CIA op. Or the whole movie could have simply focused on recruiting Bourne and him debating it as events are unfolding.
Any of those could have used Nikki as motivation and left the dad nonsense out.
Sorcerer
Member
He was barely punished, he knocked dudes out in one shot.
This movie could not have been based on one the books because that book must have been a pamphlet.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it lol. Could have also just been him looking for a reason to keep living or something.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Yeah. He's been doing hard labor, and that's why he's so jacked. As for the fighting what kagari said. Fighting helps with pain and memories.
And I don't mind shaky cam. It's just don't go out of focus.
And I don't mind shaky cam. It's just don't go out of focus.
Yeah, there are lots of things that could have happened. Like, maybe you could have gotten to some questions of if good was done by what he did or not.
So many interesting ways to take this beyond "The CIA is generic bad, and pretty much seems to only exist to recruit and fail at killing Jason Bourne". I mean, the original movies made sense. He knew far too much and had to die.
Landy already exposed everything. What the fuck else was there to kill Bourne for? Because we killed his dad? Why the fuck would they secret recruit the guy developing the programs son? It was so fucking messy.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Also, Bourne goes back at the end of the movie. Does he go back being mopey and depressed?
As for him going back to the CIA, it kinda goes against the character. This goes all the way back to Liman's vision.
As for him going back to the CIA, it kinda goes against the character. This goes all the way back to Liman's vision.
Yeah, but I think having him being tricked into becoming a murder machine because his dad was killed by the CIA takes something away from the character.
Before this he was a person who chose to become a soulless killing machine for the CIA and assassinate world leaders no questions asked for the US government. Then when he lost his memory and rebooted, he became a better person who rejected who he was and tried to make right for what he did.
Now it's not a triumph story. It's that he got tricked by nefarious men who wanted to trick him into becoming a CIA murder machine which made no sense since they could have found hundreds of people willing to join the murder machine empire.
There are things you could have done with this movie that didn't try to walk this same overly well worn path. Having him consider that maybe some of what he did wasn't bad is kind of interesting. Having him try to fix problems he created is interesting, and maybe he runs afoul of the CIA that way. But another mystery from his path with an even higher stakes CIA target is tired.
Then of course, the plot devices that drive it beyond that are fucking dumb and the action set pieces are even sillier.
I was very confused about Heather's motivation. Was she on Bourne's side or was she just trying to go behind Tommy Lee Jones back to get him out of the picture? At the end she talked to that one CIA guy (I never even learned that dudes name or his position) and acted like she didn't care about Bourne, and then she goes and tries to get Bourne's trust and I just did not understand which one she really wanted to do more. I guess him filming that convo with her in the truck was proof enough that she was out to get him and not with him, but throughout the entire movie it was flip-flopping and I couldn't tell. I like Vikander but she was super flat in this.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
He thought he was serving his country. He volunteered, was hesitant during the initial training, but the CIA forced him in. Remember, Bourne was dragged, and face in the water tank. They brainwashed these guys to not have any feelings. Nicky in ultimatum said the agents had to be broken down in order to become operational.
But even at the end, that conversation could have been a ploy to become the head of the CIA and she was just saying what she had to in order to get the job.
And if thats the case, Bourne was just being a big dummy and not very spy like at all.
Yeah exactly, that thought also crossed my mind. Just couldn't tell even at the end of the film.
Also I'd just like to mention that the CG when Bourne walls off that building and gets caught on the wire was awful.
Its the new Jason Bourne "knock yourself the fuck out cold and then no cops or bad guys get to you in the time it takes you to come to" school of spy work
Sorcerer
Member
The movie shows that Heather was very ambitious. She does tell Bourne at one point she wants to get rid of Jones also, but for a different reason.
To me it was clear she would have sold Bourne out to get what she wanted, or kill him if she had to. The movie doesn't go out it's way to make her that sympathetic to Bourne, she is rather cold throughout the entirety. She used Bourne to get rid of Jones, and she would have no problem getting rid of Bourne once she achieved her goal.
At least the movie did a good job of foiling her plan, she never gets her promotion, and they don't have to have to have an awkward situation with her in the next movie if there ever is one.
I have two main problems with the film.
1: Magical MacGuffin Malware that can scan everything everywhere and is conveniently installed on the single computer that matters most in the film.
2: The German hacker decrypts the USB pen on a laptop connected to the internet?
The camera direction was alright, apart from being unnecessary close to peoples faces during the last scene of the film.
1: Magical MacGuffin Malware that can scan everything everywhere and is conveniently installed on the single computer that matters most in the film.
2: The German hacker decrypts the USB pen on a laptop connected to the internet?
The camera direction was alright, apart from being unnecessary close to peoples faces during the last scene of the film.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
What I don't get is that isn't she also culpable for killing Nicky? Seems strange that Bourne would let that go. Although I guess stalking her and hearing her say she'd kill him is probably enough for him to tell her to fuck off.
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