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[JohnnyFootball]

Not to mention if something becomes amiss and Indiana Jones slips, they'll have yet another holiday without any real exclusive to help sell their console. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

Indiana Jones is the one title that I have legit hope will be good and feel best about

However.....the two words that I have grown to HATE appeared in their last showcase....

Modern Audiences.....something that doesn't exist.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Really? That's his definition of "mess?" He might as well stop covering video game news lol.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Really? That's his definition of "mess?" He might as well stop covering video game news lol.

The definition of mess is Xbox games are underperforming (yes others are too, but Xbox is many times worse), console sales have dropped off the face of the earth.

Yes, Xbox is in a much bigger mess than everyone else, aside from maybe Ubisoft.

 

[K' Dash]

By thinking like this is how you get a gimped $700 you can’t afford

People baiting into console wars with low IQs won’t be able to afford new expensive HW in the future.

 

[wipeout364]

The definition of mess is Xbox games are underperforming (yes others are too, but Xbox is many times worse), console sales have dropped off the face of the earth.

Yes, Xbox is in a much bigger mess than everyone else, aside from maybe Ubisoft.

Black ops 6 says otherwise, especially when Sony has to start writing those big Cheques to Microsoft for their 30% cut of everything they sell related to Bethesda, Activision and Blizzard.

 

[SweetTooth]

A mess "RIGHT NOW?"

 

[Nydius]

Seriously why doesn't Microsoft make a Handheld that runs Windows and has Steam on it, etc.? This way, the device can succeed and you can make a lot of money from it, especially if it has powerful spec. I've been thinking about buying a portable device for a long time, but I'm waiting for something really powerful!, and I'm ready to buy it. I can imagine running all of Microsoft's games on it, as well as Sony games, Switch games, a PS3 emulator, and a PS4 emulator with Bloodborne, etc.

Because, like my being late to the thread, Microsoft would be late to yet another hardware market and would offer nothing significantly better or different to existing competitors that have been iterating within that market already for years.

We’ve watched Microsoft run that playbook multiple times over the years and the only two moderate “successes” (by which I mean they’ve lasted the longest despite being financial drains) have been Xbox and Surface. Both are currently imploding in terms of device sales and mindshare.

An Xbox/Windows handheld is going to follow in the direct footsteps of Zune and Windows Phone unless they spend a TON of money making something truly market changing - but that would also likely make it too expensive for mass adoption.

 

[TheTony316]

The Activision acquisition fucked Xbox (as a console). The fanboys should have listened to Jim Ryan, he just wanted to save Xbox.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Mobile could work wonders for them.

 

[Kacho]

I dont get it.

They are in a mess cause they are planning to tease handheld now?

No, they’re a mess because they don’t have a strong vision for the future. That’s why their plans are constantly changing, which reflects in their bipolar messaging this past year.

 

[Insane Metal]

I mean it's been like that for a while

 

[BlackTron]

Seriously why doesn't Microsoft make a Handheld that runs Windows and has Steam on it, etc.? This way, the device can succeed and you can make a lot of money from it, especially if it has powerful spec.

Can you tell me where the money will come from, exactly?

The difficult position that MS is in is that if they release an open hardware with both Xbox OS and Steam/Windows, it's not mandatory to buy games through Microsoft. The same title on Xbox can be had on Steam, but denying Xbox any profit of the sale. This is true even of XGS games, say you could buy Halo on Xbox and they keep everything or if you buy it on Steam to run on the same hardware they lose 30%. So it's dubious that an open hardware is the path to software riches.

As a result they can't plan to subsidize the hardware through software sales, resulting in a more expensive item that can't sell as well. It's pretty much another ROG Ally type PC handheld at that point, just as pricey but with native Xbox games too.

They're in a very challenging position.

 

[saintjules]

Why is there a need for a handheld when there's xcloud?

 

[RoboFu]

Really took some deep research to figure that one out.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Is there any more information in the podcast to flesh out what he is saying here?

Like, we know xbox is really been in a washing machine since the ABK and papa Satya demanded results but it's a bit of an extreme statement to make just because xbox didn't plan to have Indy on ps5 a year ago and now they want to release a handheld.

Am I missing some context here?

 

[Sanepar]

Only Nintendo and Steam can save us. Sony and MS are on full retard mode now.

 

[HogIsland]

This is why I don't think Microsoft can pull off the whole SteamOS on Windows idea. Basically adding a full-screen Xbox UI to Windows itself. They ought to do it, but it's a major engineering effort. If the Xbox division is still figuring out what to do with themselves, the Windows development side is probably not taking on such a big project.

 

[Daniel_Mallorca1985]

 

[lughnasadh123]

I've seen a lot of people downplay the Steam Deck when that was announced. Even worse when the Portal came out. No surprise it's happening again with a possible Xbox handheld.

This has potential that is getting handwaved away: An open system that natively plays your Xbox games, easily plays PC/console Gamepass, can access other launchers libraries, and cloud streaming all out of the box without tinkering is a very attractive package. All while doing something their current home console doesn't - appeal to the crowd beyond their Xbox fan base. If they manage to make a streamline windows OS for this it'll be fucking fantastic.

 

[clarky]

This is why I don't think Microsoft can pull off the whole SteamOS on Windows idea. Basically adding a full-screen Xbox UI to Windows itself. They ought to do it, but it's a major engineering effort. If the Xbox division is still figuring out what to do with themselves, the Windows development side is probably not taking on such a big project.

This was mentioned in another thread but if they do that (xbox on windows basically) then it brings up a whole host of licencing issues with 3rd parties.

I'd love an Xbox environment on PC for all my old titles but it ain't happening.

 

[Astray]

Black ops 6 says otherwise, especially when Sony has to start writing those big Cheques to Microsoft for their 30% cut of everything they sell related to Bethesda, Activision and Blizzard.

So much delusion in this:

1) Black Ops 6 was already in development before the Activision deal closed.
2) Sony gets %30 of whatever its sells on there for doing essentially nothing, meanwhile Microsoft/Activision is carrying all the risk.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Modern Audiences.....something that doesn't exist.

Not true.

About 1 out of every 5,000 people look like that guy. lol

Any company gunning for modern audiences better hope their product has a very low budget because the sales potential is as big as 99 cent packs of toothpicks from the dollar store.

 

[clarky]

So much delusion in this:

1) Black Ops 6 was already in development before the Activision deal closed.
2) Sony gets %30 of whatever its sells on there for doing essentially nothing, meanwhile Microsoft/Activision is carrying all the risk.

I don't think its delusional to say Black Ops 6 will be among the best selling titles of the year.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I dont get it.

They are in a mess cause they are planning to tease handheld now?

No. Because their focus changes every year. Their narrative changes every year.

I mean, let's be honest... The gaming industry as of right now is a mess.

It's not. The gaming industry has literally never been more profitable than it is right now in general and is nowhere near as bad as it could actually be.

Because the guard is changing *(again) which is something that is unknown to most and seems to happen every decade or so, doesn't mean its a mess. Western devs are doing shit, but Eastern devs have been picking the slack. Xbox is at the last throws of its death knell, but that's been coming for almost two generations now.

People look at it these things as a mess, I look at it as a course correction.

 

[Astray]

I've seen a lot of people downplay the Steam Deck when that was announced. Even worse when the Portal came out. No surprise it's happening again with a possible Xbox handheld.

This has potential that is getting handwaved away: An open system that natively plays your Xbox games, easily plays PC/console Gamepass, can access other launchers libraries, and cloud streaming all out of the box without tinkering is a very attractive package. All while doing something their current home console doesn't - appeal to the crowd beyond their Xbox fan base. If they manage to make a streamline windows OS for this it'll be fucking fantastic.

People talk about this Xbox handheld like the market has been crying out for it.

How much did Steam Deck sell? Last estimate puts it at the 3m figure, which is really nothing much in the grand scheme of things, these are Meta VR goggle numbers. What is the appeal of something that takes that and adds like one more feature (playing Xbox games, which is meaningless if you never had an Xbox)?

Portal is an accessory that exists to maximize playtime and investment from existing PS users. I don't see

I don't think its delusional to say Black ops 6 will be among the best selling titles of the year.

It is gonna be successful, but whether it succeeds or fails says nothing about well-conceived Microsoft's strategy is, and whether it is a mess or not.

Black Ops 6's success has basically nothing to do with anything MS is doing rn (good or bad). They bought the publisher as the game was nearing completion (just like with MW3 before it).

 

[HogIsland]

This was mentioned in another thread but if they do that (xbox on windows basically) then it brings up a whole host of licencing issues with 3rd parties.

I'd love an Xbox environment on PC for all my old titles but it ain't happening.

I'm not talking about compatibility with existing Xbox builds of games (though that would be interesting). I'm just talking about a full screen, gamepad-controlled UI for launching PC games on Windows. There aren't any licensing problems with that, it's just a question of can they do it.

 

[clarky]

I'm not talking about compatibility with existing Xbox builds of games (though that would be interesting). I'm just talking about a full screen, gamepad-controlled UI for launching PC games on Windows. There aren't any licensing problems with that, it's just a question of can they do it.

I get you now. But I already have big picture mode for that.

 

[clarky]

It is gonna be successful, but whether it succeeds or fails says nothing about well-conceived Microsoft's strategy is, and whether it is a mess or not.

Black Ops 6's success has basically nothing to do with anything MS is doing rn (good or bad). They bought the publisher as the game was nearing completion (just like with MW3 before it).

Of course it does. Don't be silly.

 

[night13x]

Here is the thing though....who is going to buy an xbox handheld if people still don't want to buy the xbox games?

Let's review:

Nintendo: Blew it out of the ballpark with their handheld first, console 2nd approach. GREAT library of games to this day.

Playstation: The portal is an extension of the ps4/5 console to play their games "anywhere" Sony library of games is great!

Steam: deck - I don't think I need to explain this one of how hugely successful it is.

Xbox: why would I want to spend money on a handheld hardware when Uncle Phil can't get his house in order and overall the xbox library is mediocre? Why would I buy an xbox handheld when there are superior options out there FOR MY ENJOYMENT.

Xbox could theoretically released a handheld as powerful as a 4090 (this wont happen - but I am making a point). That is great and all.....but why would I want to use it when their game division is in shambles?


Xbox needs to clean house, get competent people to run the business, and start producing blockbuster games again. I am not an xbox person, but competition is good (so I am rooting for them in that regards).

 

[clarky]

Here is the thing though....who is going to buy an xbox handheld if people still don't want to buy the xbox games?

Let's review:

Nintendo: Blew it out of the ballpark with their handheld first, console 2nd approach. GREAT library of games to this day.

Playstation: The portal is an extension of the ps4/5 console to play their games "anywhere" Sony library of games is great!

Steam: deck - I don't think I need to explain this one of how hugely successful it is.

Xbox: why would I want to spend money on a handheld hardware when Uncle Phil can't get his house in order and overall the xbox library is mediocre? Why would I buy an xbox handheld when there are superior options out there FOR MY ENJOYMENT.

Xbox could theoretically released a handheld as powerful as a 4090 (this wont happen - but I am making a point). That is great and all.....but why would I want to use it when their game division is in shambles?


Xbox needs to clean house, get competent people to run the business, and start producing blockbuster games again. I am not an xbox person, but competition is good (so I am rooting for them in that regards).

I'd be interested in a handheld that played all my PC and xbox/gamepass games in one place with a decent interface and no fucking around.

 

[bundylove]

This is not an xbox problem.
Xbox is just ahead of playstation in this regard.
Playstation has and will have its own big problems considering they are now doing a horizon gaas game and seem to continue to push for more of that. 4 years and nothing from first parties.

 

[lughnasadh123]

People talk about this Xbox handheld like the market has been crying out for it.

How much did Steam Deck sell? Last estimate puts it at the 3m figure, which is really nothing much in the grand scheme of things, these are Meta VR goggle numbers. What is the appeal of something that takes that and adds like one more feature (playing Xbox games, which is meaningless if you never had an Xbox)?

Portal is an accessory that exists to maximize playtime and investment from existing PS users. I don't see

For a handheld? The market has clearly spoken and you're seeing results push well beyond Switch, SD, and beyond. An Xbox system would fit perfectly in that. All from system's that before their launch no one was "crying out for" them. Sometimes you don't know what the demand is till it's out there. Hell, even players often don't until they get their hands on it.

For next gen we'll at the very least get a home pc/console hybrid with a possible pc/console hybrid portable that'll determine what their path is going forward. And while it's success is unsure, what we do know is that their home console sales are going to continue to crater as more Xbox games hit other consoles. What else can they pivot to?

 

[bender]

Steam: deck - I don't think I need to explain this one of how hugely successful it is.

As a thought exercise, I think you do.

 

[clarky]

Steam: deck - I don't think I need to explain this one of how hugely successful it is.

On what metric? 4 million units sold ( wild guess) has probably exceeded Valves expectations but imagine Xbox only selling that many, it would be regarded as a colossal failure.

 

[BlackTron]

Only Nintendo and Steam can save us. Sony and MS are on full retard mode now.

I was positive that MS was going to self-own themselves leaving Sony to win without trying but they jumped into the same ship, after it already started sinking at that. I guess someone saw a $20 bill on the deck and had just couldn't let it sink without holding it first.

 

[diffusionx]

People are panicking because of all the FUD constantly thrown at Xbox online. Be it justified or not.

However, for now, in terms of factual results, I can't see any meaningful change for me as a consumer : a ton of games are being released, they have announced some slight hardware revisions which shows Xbox still matter to them. Rumors of a handheld console ? That actually sounds... pretty cool, no ?

So what is the issue already ?

It’s not FUD if it’s justified

 

[DavidGzz]

"Hey everyone, look at this guy who's been alive for several decades!"

"Haha, aging?!? What a loser!!"

No shit, all these nerds must be Adonis' that look amazing in bad lighting at 56 years old. Chads.

 

[T-Reks]

"If we lose our way with Halo, we lose our way with Xbox"

 

[BlackTron]

People are panicking because of all the FUD constantly thrown at Xbox online. Be it justified or not.

FUD thrown at Xbox or FUD thrown from Xbox?

 

[wipeout364]

So much delusion in this:

1) Black Ops 6 was already in development before the Activision deal closed.
2) Sony gets %30 of whatever its sells on there for doing essentially nothing, meanwhile Microsoft/Activision is carrying all the risk.

Actually I meant 70%, and what risk are you talking about, you don’t actually think Black ops 6 will do poorly. If you do then maybe you should consider who is delusional.

 

[Astray]

Of course it does. Don't be silly.

How? Were they part of its Conception? Development? If they were capable of making a good COD themselves then they would have thrown their hat in that ring years ago, instead they drove trucks of cash to Kotick's doorstep.

They have only marketed it, but marketing COD is honestly the joint easiest job in gaming (the other one is FIFA), these games really do sell themselves at this point.

And generally, the word Strategy is never mentioned with things that are mere months away. It's a word that's by definition used when describing long and very long-term planning.

For a handheld? The market has clearly spoken and you're seeing results push well beyond Switch, SD, and beyond. An Xbox system would fit perfectly in that. All from system's that before their launch no one was "crying out for" them. Sometimes you don't know what the demand is till it's out there. Hell, even players often don't until they get their hands on it.

For next gen we'll at the very least get a home pc/console hybrid with a possible pc/console hybrid portable that'll determine what their path is going forward. And while it's success is unsure, what we do know is that their home console sales are going to continue to crater as more Xbox games hit other consoles. What else can they pivot to?

When did the market speak about the need for an Xbox handheld? Sony at least has some degree of successful history with handhelds (and even then, the Vita failure and withdrawal should cast doubt over their chances of competing with Nintendo).

Switch is handily outselling the entirety of those PC handhelds (we're talking a multiple in tens here btw), what's a new one going to do exactly?

Actually I meant 70%, and what risk are you talking about, you don’t actually think Black ops 6 will do poorly. If you do then maybe you should consider who is delusional.

Financial risk in terms of bearing the costs of development, every game has some element of risk to it, for COD it's very low (as of right now), but that could change in the future.

People forget that even juggernaut IP can lose its luster over time if handled wrong. Look at Star Wars for example.

 

[Imtjnotu]

xbox has been a mess since 2012

 

[hemo memo]

I dont get it.

They are in a mess cause they are planning to tease handheld now?

It's Jason. What did you expect?

 

[Kacho]

Why is there a need for a handheld when there's xcloud?

Phil threw up the white flag on xCloud, admitting that playing games natively on a device is ideal. It’s a good value add to their subscription service but not the answer for their future in gaming.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I've seen a lot of people downplay the Steam Deck when that was announced. Even worse when the Portal came out. No surprise it's happening again with a possible Xbox handheld.

This has potential that is getting handwaved away: An open system that natively plays your Xbox games, easily plays PC/console Gamepass, can access other launchers libraries, and cloud streaming all out of the box without tinkering is a very attractive package. All while doing something their current home console doesn't - appeal to the crowd beyond their Xbox fan base. If they manage to make a streamline windows OS for this it'll be fucking fantastic.

Okay but here's the rub: if it lets you access Steam, GOG etc. the way many of you think it will....how cheap do you think this handheld will cost? The moment Microsoft releases an Xbox anything that allows access to Steam, there goes a massive chunk of their B2P & MTX revenue out the window. There also goes a chunk of their Game Pass revenue out the window because no one will expect them to provide access to Steam or EGS on an Xbox handheld, but still keep online play gated behind Game Pass (for non-F2P titles).

So you either get a handheld well below Series S specs (maybe even below Steam Deck specs) at a "cheap" $299, $349 or $399 (because they still need decent profit margins), or you get a more performant handheld that's going to set you back $599, maybe even up to $699, because again, margins. MS wouldn't be able to take that risk of allowing other storefront access without a way to guarantee profits for themselves, so that's where the hardware gets more pricy. And considering such a handheld also risks having owners leave Game Pass behind (again in favor for one of those other storefronts), that would also be factored into any potential price. That price would then dictate the volume these get produced in, which could then again also have a direct influence back on the price if the volume ends up being too low, due to a small TAM.

That's why, and I'm gonna keep doubling down on this, it probably makes the most sense for them to stick with Xbox OS for the next line of hardware. Worry about making/integrating a fully 1:1 Windows gaming UI until the actual endgame. Use Xbox OS, get support for Windows apps & programs through running extended Windows code in some translation layer of Xbox OS. Do that in order to natively enable functioning of alternative storefronts (without needing Valve, Epic etc. to build custom apps themselves) and a Windows Store with whitelisted 1P & 3P Windows apps/programs.

Monetize access of those storefronts through a Game Pass subscription tier (Ultimate obviously, and maybe some new tier mainly focused on those storefronts). Use that Game Pass leverage to soft-subsidize on the hardware (so slightly lower margins upfront on hardware, larger overall margins with Game Pass subscription tied in). Then structure Game Pass tiers so per-month pricing is cheaper if you lock-in for a year or two, vs. paying month-to-month (SIE already do this with PS+ and most sub services in general do this).

That should probably be Microsoft's play for the immediate next generation of hardware; if they allow OEMs to build their own variant systems then that's just a bonus (personally, a SEGA-themed system with its own custom UI frontend with a SEGA console-like shell, new SEGA controller, KB/M and some retro SEGA emulated games thrown in would be really cool). Whenever they make a gaming frontend/UI for Windows that's 1:1 with the console experience (or better), but can also facilitate past & present Xbox, Windows, and DOS games, will probably be when they no longer need to even make gaming hardware outside of peripherals anymore. That'd also coincide with no real vehicle of their own to "push" Game Pass, though at that point they'd probably want Game Pass on everything including Sony & Nintendo systems (also means they'd have to go fully 3P/multiplat, which they're probably going to start doing more wholly starting next year).

 

[cireza]

It’s not FUD if it’s justified

Not when every little thing is turn into something disproportionate.

 

[newtypepilot]

lol wut? They have been a mess since end of 360.

 

[clarky]

How? Were they part of its Conception? Development? If they were capable of making a good COD themselves then they would have thrown their hat in that ring years ago, instead they drove trucks of cash to Kotick's doorstep.

They have only marketed it, but marketing COD is honestly the joint easiest job in gaming (the other one is FIFA), these games really do sell themselves at this point.

And generally, the word Strategy is never mentioned with things that are mere months away. It's a word that's by definition used when describing long and very long-term planning.

We are talking about whether or not BLOPS will be a success. You called wipeout364 delusional for some reason for stating MS will be releasing one of the most successful games of the year.

If the game launches in a poor state, it'll be on MS. If sales tank because of Gamepass, that's on MS, etc etc. Last time I checked they own the company that makes it.

 

[m14]

People forget that even juggernaut IP can lose its luster over time if handled wrong. Look at Star Wars for example.

Jim Ryan clearly didn't think so when he had to beg to keep COD on Sony's platform.

 

[lughnasadh123]

When did the market speak about the need for an Xbox handheld? Sony at least has some degree of successful history with handhelds (and even then, the Vita failure and withdrawal should cast doubt over their chances of competing with Nintendo).

Switch is handily outselling the entirety of those PC handhelds (we're talking a multiple in tens here btw), what's a new one going to do exactly?

No one expected the Switch hybrid to excel beyond it's handheld market, but it did. And again, no one asked for Steam Deck or SD-likes, or the Portal, but all have done really well for what they are.

Xbox doesn't need to outsell the Switch, but to find a hardware market they can do well in. Otherwise this is it.

Okay but here's the rub: if it lets you access Steam, GOG etc. the way many of you think it will....how cheap do you think this handheld will cost? The moment Microsoft releases an Xbox anything that allows access to Steam, there goes a massive chunk of their B2P & MTX revenue out the window. There also goes a chunk of their Game Pass revenue out the window because no one will expect them to provide access to Steam or EGS on an Xbox handheld, but still keep online play gated behind Game Pass (for non-F2P titles).

Price point targeting $400 - maybe up to $500. I expect them to lose a bit of money on it just like they will with their home console. And yes, as unintuitive as it might be, I fully expect them to have the console GP and even PC GP to function differently. Players who are used to the PC side of things will be able to access it as usual. Same with consoles. I think the whole goal is to get an easy to use GP system into as many hands as possible to expand it's market which means they have to push into the PC side of things. It's weird. It's confusing. It's going to run counter to how we think Xbox operates which tbh they've already done by going in the direction of a third party publisher. Sadly right now we have way more questions than answers.