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[S0ULZB0URNE]

It does already. Candy Crush and Minecraft to name 2 titles

HARDWARE

 

[reinking]

People are still hyperfixated with console sales numbers. Remember when Sony were blindsided by the ipod and the Walkman quickly became irrelevant?

I think I see your point but I am not sure. Are you saying Sony would not be able to pivot and Xbox would? Remember, PlayStation was streaming before Xbox was. PlayStation had a handheld before Xbox did. PlayStation had a streaming box (PS/Vita TV) before any others. Sony had a handheld that connected to TV before any others did. Sony has experience in all of these markets. They were just a bit ahead of their time. I'm sure they could come up with something to keep up with Xbox if they need to. I would say console numbers still count for now because those consoles are selling content tied to those accounts.

 

[clarky]

Well it's kind of moot now due to MS putting Bethesda on other consoles now, but the main point is that at the time of the purchase MS was trying to woo people to their consoles due to now owning Bethesda as a whole, gamers did not flock over however so in a sense the purchase was a dud as it didn't change the tides in the manner MS was hoping. Don't get me wrong it has cemented MS as arguably one of the if not the biggest 3rd party publisher there is...

Like I stated, people average gamers still don't see MS and Beths in the same picture but separate...

I get you now.

My point was that without that purchase their releases over the last few years would have been even more woeful and perhaps would have lead them to exit the business entirely. Whether that would have been a good thing or not is another story.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Phil threw up the white flag on xCloud, admitting that playing games natively on a device is ideal. It’s a good value add to their subscription service but not the answer for their future in gaming.

There was a lot of hype a few years back about cloud gaming being the next big thing and Google and Amazon taking over the industry.

That clearly didn’t happen and even Google threw in the towel.

I do think there will be an audience for cloud gaming, but it’ll be slow growth with a low ceiling to market size.

At this point I’d expect Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo to own that market.

 

[Kacho]

Is that why they were advertising "no need for an xbox" and bundling controllers with firesticks? They haven't thrown the white flag on xcloud at all. It's just not working out for them as fast as they hoped.

It’s never going to work out for them because no one wants it. They were gung-ho about xCloud until Stadia imploded. That’s when they started deprioritizing xCloud in their overall strategy. It’s kinda just there because it is. It being available on firesticks means nothing because literally no one cares.

 

[Kacho]

There was a lot of hype a few years back about cloud gaming being the next big thing and Google and Amazon taking over the industry.

That clearly didn’t happen and even Google threw in the towel.

I do think there will be an audience for cloud gaming, but it’ll be slow growth with a low ceiling to market size.

At this point I’d expect Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo to own that market.

Nailed it

 

[LMJ]

I get you now.

My point was that without that purchase their releases over the last few years would have been even more woeful and perhaps would have lead them to exit the business entirely. Whether that would have been a good thing or not is another story.

I suppose lol sometimes I wish there were a way to contrast and compare the numbers to Starfield to see if they gained ANY actual gamers due to the purchase or if it was basically a wash.

Not like MS didn't try to get it across to people that it was all Xbox now, I mean give them an A for effort

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I suppose lol sometimes I wish there were a way to contrast and compare the numbers to Starfield to see if they gained ANY actual gamers due to the purchase or if it was basically a wash.

Not like MS didn't try to get it across to people that it was all Xbox now, I mean give them an A for effort

Didn’t Gamepass on console slow to a halt not long after Starfield launched?

There was a lot of hype about it being the next Halo, but it’ll never panned out.

 

[ap_puff]

honestly they just dont seem to know how to operate as an entertainment company. they havent had a finger on the pulse of gaming in over 10 years and they havent changed at all, it's baffling that they havent fired phil and the whole xbox executive suite at this point. they should sell xbox to a company that actually knows what the fuck it's doing.

 

[Kacho]

I suppose lol sometimes I wish there were a way to contrast and compare the numbers to Starfield to see if they gained ANY actual gamers due to the purchase or if it was basically a wash.

Not like MS didn't try to get it across to people that it was all Xbox now, I mean give them an A for effort

Clearly it didn’t because they got spooked, hence this past year of mixed messaging and changing strategies.

 

[sainraja]

Just saying that's what it would take to save Xbox, didn't say it was probable nor possible.

They haven't released a must have title for years, that's the core issue. I was just suggesting how to fix that.

If releasing a "must have" title was that easy—they all would be doing so on the daily.

Starfield was supposed to be that must have title. You can release a boring game (not talking about SF) that is "mechanically" okay; in other words, it's not buggy and functions well, but if it is boring, same as other games without offering anything to stand out, nothing can save it and we saw that happen recently (e.g. concord).

So, it's not like MS/Xbox don't want to do that. I think they have tried and some of those have been misses so far or haven't landed exactly where they should have.

EDIT
It is too early to point to anything because things can change suddenly... but making a big purchase like A/B probably made them think rethink some of their strategy so in a way it could hurt Xbox just as much as it can benefit it.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

honestly they just dont seem to know how to operate as an entertainment company. they havent had a finger on the pulse of gaming in over 10 years and they havent changed at all, it's baffling that they havent fired phil and the whole xbox executive suite at this point. they should sell xbox to a company that actually knows what the fuck it's doing.

Who would they sell it to though.

No western gaming company is doing great at the moment, I see none of them improving things.

Look at wider entertainment, would you seek it to a Hollywood company like Disney, Warner or Universal? Would they improve things?

How about another tech giant like Google or Amazon, companies that are clueless about gaming. Tencent, a company with no hardware experience?

What about hardware companies? Apple wouldn’t touch something so heavily tied to Microsoft services with a bargepole. That company has never made a single game either, they’re worse placed today than Microsoft was in 2001.

There’s always talk about these so called usurpers waiting in the wings to take over gaming. Fact is the status quo exists because there are no other potential companies coming to shake things up.

 

[clarky]

If releasing a "must have" title was that easy—they all would be doing so on the daily.

Starfield was supposed to be that must have title. You can release a boring game (not talking about SF) that is "mechanically" okay; in other words, it's not buggy and functions well, but if it is boring, same as other games without offering anything to stand out, nothing can save it and we saw that happen recently (e.g. concord).

So, it's not like MS/Xbox don't want to do that. I think they have tried and some of those have been misses so far or haven't landed exactly where they should have.

Sony and Nintendo have released multiple must have bangers over the last decade, I can count on one hand the amount Xbox have.

 

[GoldenEye98]

I've yet to see a take on Xbox recently that wasn't just FUD or console warring.

 

[sainraja]

Sony and Nintendo have released multiple bangers over the last decade, I can count on one hand the amount Xbox have.

They have also had games that weren't bangers either. So it takes time and effort but my point was, there is always a risk, there is no easy formula that says if I put this much money into this game it will guarantee success. Also, if a game being exclusive alone was enough, we wouldn't see Sony release games on PC but they are. MS could follow Sony in the sense that, they shouldn't put it on a sub service until after some time has passed (this I think you also said).

MS's sub offering is also driving a lot of their decisions lately so, there is that as well. MS might be thinking long-term and we don't see it right now (the future being cloud — although I personally hope not) but if the industry doesn't go there, then their position isn't going to change that much.

 

[Kacho]

I've yet to see a take on Xbox recently that wasn't just FUD or console warring.

What do you think about Jason’s comments about the state of Xbox?

 

[ap_puff]

Who would they sell it to though.

No western gaming company is doing great at the moment, I see none of them improving things.

Look at wider entertainment, would you seek it to a Hollywood company like Disney, Warner or Universal? Would they improve things?

How about another tech giant like Google or Amazon, companies that are clueless about gaming. Tencent, a company with no hardware experience? Samsung?

There’s always talk about these so called usurpers waiting in the wings to take over gaming. Fact is the status quo exists because there are no other potential companies coming to shake things up.

i would have them sell the hardware division to valve, valve can make them an actually good UI and storefront. in fact just scrap the xbox ui and use Steam, but with a decent hardware platform. For MS studios, honestly they could spin it off as an independent subsidiary under ABK/Zenimax, get rid of all the MS-side executives and let ABK handle the corporate side. Maybe they could headhunt someone like Ted Price from Insomniac to be CEO.

 

[GoldenEye98]

What do you think about Jason’s comments about the state of Xbox?

The definition of FUD...

"iT's A mEsS!"

 

[clarky]

They have also had games that weren't bangers either. So it takes time and effort but my point was, there is always a risk, there is no easy formula that says if I put this much money into this game it will guarantee success. Also, if a game being exclusive alone was enough, we wouldn't see Sony release games on PC but they are. MS could follow Sony in the sense that, they shouldn't put it on a sub service until after some time has passed.

MS's sub offering is also driving a lot of their decisions lately so, there is that as well.

Whatever it is they are doing, they are doing it wrong. Like i said Sony and Nintendos best offerings over the last decade are so far in advance of what Xbox has put out is not even funny.

Xbox could only dream of releasing something like TOTK or even something smaller like Astro bot. Compare those titles to Redfall or the state Forza released in. That is their core issue. My og post you referred to would certainly help them not release utter turds.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

i would have them sell the hardware division to valve, valve can make them an actually good UI and storefront. in fact just scrap the xbox ui and use Steam, but with a decent hardware platform. For MS studios, honestly they could spin it off as an independent subsidiary under ABK/Zenimax, get rid of all the MS-side executives and let ABK handle the corporate side. Maybe they could headhunt someone like Ted Price from Insomniac to be CEO.

Valve have only dabbled in hardware.

Valve barely make any games these days.

I struggle to see them taking responsibility for building millions of hardware units, providing a repairs service and selling them worldwide.

I think people assume that running a business like Xbox, PlayStation and Nintendo is a doddle.

 

[Tortahegeszto]

Damn right they're a mess! They've acquired both iD Software and Activison but Wolfenstein 2009 still isn't available anywhere.

 

[clarky]

The definition of FUD...

"iT's A mEsS!"

Even a retard can see xbox is completely rudderless atm.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Right now?

Xbox has been a mess ever since they botched the reveal of the XBone. They literally never recovered from that, it's been a downward spiral ever since

 

[ANIMAL1975]

... dude the X botton is wrong lol

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Black ops 6 says otherwise, especially when Sony has to start writing those big Cheques to Microsoft for their 30% cut of everything they sell related to Bethesda, Activision and Blizzard.

Any smart person would realize that I was talking about Xbox as a console not as a 3rd party publisher. Xbox is dead as a console maker and as a platform.
If you read my previous post you would see that I think MS will thrive as a 3rd party publisher.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Jim Ryan clearly didn't think so when he had to beg to keep COD on Sony's platform.

I doubt he had to beg when over 75% of the COD sales were on Sony's platform.

Nice try though.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Any smart person would realize that I was talking about Xbox as a console not as a 3rd party publisher. Xbox is dead as a console maker and as a platform.
If you read my previous post you would see that I think MS will thrive as a 3rd party publisher.

When it comes to the Xbox platform they’ve never made much of a profit off hardware sales.

There’s real money was in third party game sales and their ability to make about 30% off each copy sold.

That tap seems to have gone from full flow during the 360 days to more of a drip, how did they not think that Gamepass and conditioning thier customers to not buy games wouldn’t kill this business?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

When it comes to the Xbox platform they’ve never made much of a profit off hardware sales.

There’s real money was in third party game sales and their ability to make about 30% off each copy sold.

That tap seems to have gone from full flow during the 360 days to more of a drip, how did they not think that Gamepass and conditioning thier customers to not buy games wouldn’t kill this business?

wipeout364 keeps bringing up CoD6 as the thing that will save them.

It won't when over 80% of the sales will be on Playstation.

 

[Cattlyst]

Feel like I’m the only one who just turns on his Xbox, plays a few games and then turns it off again and it’s just…fine? Eh. What do I know?

 

[djjinx2]

Feel like I’m the only one who just turns on his Xbox, plays a few games and then turns it off again and it’s just…fine? Eh. What do I know?

I know the feeling. Series X is a great console for me. CoD and Forza. All I need

The war though is of great importance to many

 

[djjinx2]

wipeout364 keeps bringing up CoD6 as the thing that will save them.

It won't when over 80% of the sales will be on Playstation.

Xbox doesn't need saving.

It needs to find a path forward to keep it's install base whilst also going 3rd party with it's games.

 

[GoldenEye98]

Feel like I’m the only one who just turns on his Xbox, plays a few games and then turns it off again and it’s just…fine? Eh. What do I know?

If you go by online discourse Xbox actually exited the market years ago and doesn't exist anymore.

 

[BlackTron]

That's why, and I'm gonna keep doubling down on this, it probably makes the most sense for them to stick with Xbox OS for the next line of hardware.

The more I think about it, the more I think we're setting ourselves up for disappointment. The fundamental question has to be answered -why are we even making hardware in the first place? Once they go open platform "the cat's out of the bag" and it's not going back in. One can't help but wonder if they will make any last ditch attempt not to have to do this. Maybe, they will make hardware mostly to respect software libraries and die-hard clients with money, while really caring about publishing -but this basically amounts to surrender, and I'm not certain they are willing to go all-in on surrender yet. On the other hand, it's whatever Nadella happens to think.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Maybe, they will make hardware mostly to respect software libraries and die-hard clients with money, while really caring about publishing -but this basically amounts to surrender, and I'm not certain they are willing to go all-in on surrender yet. On the other hand, it's whatever Nadella happens to think.

What’s the market for this? About 10-20 million people?

If they can make a profit from that business then they’d be foolish to just throw it down the toilet.

 

[m14]

Ha, I hadn't seen this photo of J Allard before. This is awesome.

I think I see your point but I am not sure. Are you saying Sony would not be able to pivot and Xbox would? Remember, PlayStation was streaming before Xbox was. PlayStation had a handheld before Xbox did. PlayStation had a streaming box (PS/Vita TV) before any others. Sony had a handheld that connected to TV before any others did. Sony has experience in all of these markets. They were just a bit ahead of their time. I'm sure they could come up with something to keep up with Xbox if they need to. I would say console numbers still count for now because those consoles are selling content tied to those accounts.

That's a little generous. Sony have failed to capitalize on new trends over and over again. You're right that consoles do still matter for now. But who would we feel more secure in backing in a post console future- Sony, the faded electronics giant or MS, the largest software company in the world?

I doubt he had to beg when over 75% of the COD sales were on Sony's platform.

Nice try though.

Yeah, sure he wasn't.

Jim Ryan: 'Our Business Would Never Recover' If Microsoft Degraded Call of Duty on PlayStation​

Jim Ryan: 'Our Business Would Never Recover' If Microsoft Degraded Call of Duty on PlayStation

Sony Interactive Entertainment President and CEO Jim Ryan in the company's response to the UK regulator, the Competition [...]

www.vgchartz.com

 

[djjinx2]

What’s the market for this? About 10-20 million people?

If they can make a profit from that business then they’d be foolish to just throw it down the toilet.

Keeping some timed exclusives for game pass and publishing games everywhere they can. With decent hardware for no loss. (Arm handheld and expensive PC/Console with new Xbox mode).

This is the way.

Xbox is the biggest game publisher in the world, doesn't need to be the biggest HW seller too.

 

[Kacho]

Feel like I’m the only one who just turns on his Xbox, plays a few games and then turns it off again and it’s just…fine? Eh. What do I know?

Do you want to continue doing that on Xbox hardware? Because they need to get their stuff together and give people outside of the fanatical with their heads in the sand reasons to jump in.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

That's a little generous. Sony have failed to capitalize on new trends over and over again. You're right that consoles do still matter for now. But who would we feel more secure in backing in a post console future- Sony, the faded electronics giant or MS, the largest software company in the world?

You sound like those people in 2001 who said Microsoft would put PlayStation out of business.

4 generations later and Sony has outsold them every time, it’s not even close.

As for your question, probably go with the one that hasn’t repeatedly turned everything they’ve touched to shit in gaming since 2010.

As for the whole “post-console” thing…

 

[Shin-Ra]

Feel like I’m the only one who just turns on his Xbox, plays a few games and then turns it off again and it’s just…fine? Eh. What do I know?

I know the feeling. Series X is a great console for me. CoD and Forza. All I need

The war though is of great importance to many

Isn’t posting defensively here contradictory to “I just like to play my console, everything’s fine”?

 

[Nydius]

Keeping some timed exclusives for game pass and publishing games everywhere they can. With decent hardware for no loss. (Arm handheld and expensive PC/Console with new Xbox mode).

That’s the trick Microsoft needs to learn because every single one of their hardware ventures have been sold at a loss. There was a super brief moment where Surface broke even but then it went right back to being a net loss per unit.

Until they’re able to make hardware that they don’t have to subsidize with the profits of other divisions, their hardware problems will continue.

 

[Nonehxc]

The worst drug of all...

When you believe your own shit telling you it will be good if you smoke it.

 

[HogIsland]

Keeping some timed exclusives for game pass and publishing games everywhere they can. With decent hardware for no loss. (Arm handheld and expensive PC/Console with new Xbox mode).

This is the way.

Xbox is the biggest game publisher in the world, doesn't need to be the biggest HW seller too.

Game Pass exclusive is an extremely bad idea. Now you're just straight up saying you don't want $70 from a customer trying to give it to you? The best case I could see is Game Pass exclusive early access, and even that is dicey.

I don't think the tech is ready for ARM + x86 compatibility on the basis of PC ports. Maybe if it was an Xbox SDK that compiled for both targets, but now we're talking about a bespoke Xbox console which is doomed from the start.

The fact that Xbox is the biggest publisher in the world is exactly why they need to give up on exclusives. Their games need to sell in the 10-20M. Profit is in the software itself. Limiting the audience is moving backward.

 

[wipeout364]

wipeout364 keeps bringing up CoD6 as the thing that will save them.

It won't when over 80% of the sales will be on Playstation.

That’s my point actually, Xbox is in the midst of trying to figure out the way forward. The games xbox sells on PlayStation directly support the Xbox ecosystem. Microsoft is trying to figure out what that ecosystem looks like which is why the article is basically stating the obvious.

Microsoft can’t win a conventional war in the dying console space and I think they see Sony’s win as a Pyrrhic victory, so they are trying to change the rules of engagement.

I hope there are more Xbox consoles but only time will tell, I do think Xbox as a brand will continue.

 

[digital_ghost]

Xbox has been in a mess since Peter Moore left (I still believe due to the RROD catastrophe) and Don Mattrick took the reins.

They coasted through the Xbox One generation due to the goodwill from the 360 days, but that goodwill is gone now.

They’re the Ubisoft of platform holders.

Unfortunately ubiout of ideas and their only game that sells is assassin's creed.

At least Xbox has cod, elder scrolls 6, and doom. Those will sell well on playstation.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You know those sci-fi movies where there's clones?

One person is an old withered guy whose rich, and there's a new device that can make his duplicate young and healthy if he pays millions of dollars?

Spencer looks like the old guy. lol

 

[m14]

You sound like those people in 2001 who said Microsoft would put PlayStation out of business.

4 generations later and Sony has outsold them every time, it’s not even close.

As for your question, probably go with the one that hasn’t repeatedly turned everything they’ve touched to shit in gaming since 2010.

As for the whole “post-console” thing…

Sony have made mistakes time and again and I'm not sure why PlayStation would be immune from that, especially in light of recent failures.
When MS decided to enter the console market, they were genuinely fearful of Sony "owning the living room." Would anyone seriously say that Sony are overall a more successful company today than they were in the year 2000 and that MS are still fearful of them?

As for the 2010 comment, it's no secret that MS have made a lot of mistakes in the last decade plus but... Forza Horizon series is "shit"? Fight Sim too? Halo has had its problems but then we remember that the best FPS game on PS5 is PowerWash simulator...

Also, the PS3 barely outsold the 360 (assuming we trust Sony's numbers) despite the huge advantage it had from the previous generation. They got trounced in the US and UK by the 360 with only Japan predictably propping them up.

And to be fair, console sales have really declined this year overall.

 

[reinking]

Sony have made mistakes time and again and I'm not sure why PlayStation would be immune from that, especially in light of recent failures.
When MS decided to enter the console market, they were genuinely fearful of Sony "owning the living room." Would anyone seriously say that Sony are overall a more successful company today than they were in the year 2000 and that MS are still fearful of them?

As for the 2010 comment, it's no secret that MS have made a lot of mistakes in the last decade plus but... Forza Horizon series is "shit"? Fight Sim too? Halo has had its problems but then we remember that the best FPS game on PS5 is PowerWash simulator...

Also, the PS3 barely outsold the 360 (assuming we trust Sony's numbers) despite the huge advantage it had from the previous generation. They got trounced in the US and UK by the 360 with only Japan predictably propping them up.

And to be fair, console sales have really declined this year overall.

 

[bender]

As for the 2010 comment, it's no secret that MS have made a lot of mistakes in the last decade plus but... Forza Horizon series is "shit"? Fight Sim too? Halo has had its problems but then we remember that the best FPS game on PS5 is PowerWash simulator...

 

[djjinx2]

Game Pass exclusive is an extremely bad idea. Now you're just straight up saying you don't want $70 from a customer trying to give it to you? The best case I could see is Game Pass exclusive early access, and even that is dicey.

I don't think the tech is ready for ARM + x86 compatibility on the basis of PC ports. Maybe if it was an Xbox SDK that compiled for both targets, but now we're talking about a bespoke Xbox console which is doomed from the start.

The fact that Xbox is the biggest publisher in the world is exactly why they need to give up on exclusives. Their games need to sell in the 10-20M. Profit is in the software itself. Limiting the audience is moving backward.

GamePass cam work though as most people only buy a few games a year, so that monthly revenue makes more money from some customers but not others (compared to actual purchases.)

Millions of subscribers for all 1st party games plus online plus other perks, with an additional 70% of all revenue from games sold on other platforms.

Also for the Arm/PC comment. MS already working on compatibility (forwards and backwards)

Bonus https://www.worksonwoa.com/

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

There was a lot of hype a few years back about cloud gaming being the next big thing and Google and Amazon taking over the industry.

That clearly didn’t happen and even Google threw in the towel.

I do think there will be an audience for cloud gaming, but it’ll be slow growth with a low ceiling to market size.

At this point I’d expect Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo to own that market.

Cloud gaming is not that different from traditional consoles. The only real difference is that the consoles are in data centers that are then rented out. This also means the platform had to fund the cost of the hardware and the electricity to run these things.

Also, because it is renting, the customer find it easier to walk away and NOT invest in the platform, because they don't own anything. If I rent my car rather than owning it, i would find it easy to switch to a different rental service when ever I want and would have no loyalty.

Streaming just doesn't have any real benefits to both sides. It is too expensive to consumers for what it is offering and the platform doesn't want to invest in world network on their end.