Oh don't do it oh my gawd
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Jay Z removes his albums from Apple Music and Spotify
- Thread starter giga
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Oh don't do it oh my gawd
Good luck with that move I guess.
When will these dumb music industry politicking stop? You are not going to make Tidal a thing just because you leave every other service. People have subscriptions, playlists and all that shit. They are not that easy to leave their preferred device. They are also really not going to subscribe to two services.
When will these dumb music industry politicking stop? You are not going to make Tidal a thing just because you leave every other service. People have subscriptions, playlists and all that shit. They are not that easy to leave their preferred device. They are also really not going to subscribe to two services.
Bounceounce
Member
Okay, so I'm going to try and address this topic in few separate blocks, and I think I'm going to start off by first addressing the removal of his albums/why Jay is doing this and what it means to him as a person/how it relates to his goals with Tidal, and secondly what my perspective on this as a fan:
- First thing's first, I think that we can all agree on this point, that disregarding any and all personal philosophies on the exclusiveness of music/art and whether this is beneficial towards the people (and even Jay himself), that this is Jay's music, not yours or anyone else's, and as the owner of his on Master's, Jay has the right choose to do whatever he like's/think's is best for him regarding his music, regardless of our feelings on it., so let's not act like Jay is killing a cat here.
- Second of all, I think that it would be beneficial for everyone in the thread if you tried to understand where Jay is coming from with this move, as it's deeply ingrained in his life story and philosophy on the world.
Jay's first major experience with the music industry was in 89, he has asked an older neighbor/friend/mentor Jaz-O (Big Jaz at the time of this story) to take him with him/do anything with him relating to music as he didn't want to be stuck in the streets, and as they were a duo Jaz obliged and Jay ended up going with him on a trip to London where Jaz was meeting with executives at his label/working on his debut album.
Jay has talked about this trip in many different avenues, but I'll start by quoting this excerpt from Jay's book Decoded:
"Up until that point, my life could be mapped with a triangle: Brooklyn, Washington Heights, Trenton," Jay wrote.
"It was a surreal, disorienting experience: two niggas from Marcy in a flat in Notting Hill," he added. Besides being his first trip outside of the country, the London trip presented a fork in the road for Jay.
As the story goes, the rhyming upstart at the time was originally there to shadow Jaz, who was signed to EMI Records, through the recording of his debut album. This album would feature the pair joining forces for the poppy collaboration, "Hawaiian Sophie."
Despite high hopes of the record taking them from Marcy to Hollywood ("We were looking at the plaques on their wall and thinking about the radio play"), what ended up happening was, as Jay described it, "career suicide."
"Jaz went from being courted at the highest level to not having EMI return his phone calls," he wrote. "After the way EMI handled Jaz, I buried my little rap dreams. If I had any pent-up resentment or anger, I took it out on the block."
Seeing this as a wake-up call, the Marcy-bred spitter then went back the street-pharmaceutical route and went to Maryland, where, as discussed in the book, it was "was an adventure."
"Shootouts in clubs, police investigations, whole crews arrested," he scribed, before adding, "I got out of there just in time. Some of my best friends weren't so lucky. It was tragic."
The bolded is the most important part of this excerpt, Jay is talking about how his experiences with Jaz lead to him not trusting the industry/believing it wasn't for him, that experience is something that would follow Jay for the rest of his life, as by the time RD came around Jay had not only seen what had happened to Jaz, but seeing what happened with his mentor Kane's career, witnessing tons and tons of rappers falling off, losing their publishing rights, getting replaced, and just in general getting screwed (as he's talked about in interviews and many of times in his lyrics), and Jay didn't want that to happen to him, which is why Jay's always been about ownership.
For example, after being unable to get a deal for years, Jay finally attained one with the help of Dame Dash at Priority Records, but through that experience and seeing the way they were handling his moves/useless work and wheel spinning that took him nowhere, Jay decided that he could do better on his own and Dame had that same fire within him (The third Roc founder Biggs as well once they linked up with him), and so they struck out on their own and in due time would make history.
Another experience that lead to this mentality, is Jay's dealings with Iceberg clothing (a now defunct European clothing company).
Jay had been promoting their clothing in his music, and as he did so it grew in popularity, Jay even coined himself "Iceberg Slim", but when Jay approached them about an endorsement deal he was soundly rebuffed, this experience made Jay weary of promoting any products that he didn't own himself, and as a result he went on to found Rocawear Clothing (which had humble beginnings but grew to be a giant).
That's not everything that lead to this philosophy from Jay, but those two examples effectively get the point across.
There's also an interview of Jay from 96 or 95 or 97 where he essentially details/talks about his goal to own everything that's his, every move Jay's made from the moment he dropped RD was to be able to get to this point.
This is just a continuation of what he's been spitting for years, such as on Izzo:
"I do this for my culture, to let them know
What a nigga look like when a nigga in a roaster
Show them how to move in a room full of vultures
Industry is shady, it needs to be taken over
Label owners hate me, I'm raising the status quo up
I'm overcharging niggas for what they did to the Cold Crush
Pay us like you owe us for all the years that you hoed us
We can talk, but money talks, so talk mo' bucks"
This is the same philosophy he's applied to his sports agency and why he's there to look after these young (largely black) athletes and make sure they move right and don't end up floundering everything they've made/getting taken advantage of (and is the Philosophy that his clients such as Kevin Durant speak on/what he's learned/gotten from Jay in their relationship), as well as what he's spread in advice to current generation young rappers/artists.
And then look at this article from Pitchfork about Jay's relationship with Hot 97 Radio and how they joined forces to take over Hip Hop:
http://pitchfork.com/features/artic...-hot-97-combined-forces-to-take-over-hip-hop/
One of the conclusions one of the people being interviewed makes towards the end of the article, is a sentiment that brings everything I've said thus far home, and it's that Jay really doesn't need Hot 97 anymore and hasn't for years/their relationship isn't necessary now, and one of the reasons why that is stated?
Tidal.
Tidal is the culmination of everything that Jay's worked on for his entire career thus far (along with his Roc agencies and what not), with tidal Jay Z now wouldn't need to go to hot 97 to drop a freestyle, or premiere a track, or drum up hype or whatever else, Tidal is Jay's way of brining all of his work under one tent and being the person that the buck stops with (and if we're to believe him doing so for other artists as well).
Jay removing his albums from these services is the same self-determination he's always practiced/the logical step for him based on his own philosophy/what has drove him to this point.
Now do I agree with it? No, not really.
To be clear I like Tidal (even though the launch was tone deaf and terrible), it's my only option other than Spotify since I don't use anything Apple, so obviously I had to try it out, and I went away preferring the Tidal's mobile app to Spotify's mobile app and the interface/features as well (one of my favorite Podcasts went deep into trying all of the services out and came away positive on Tidal, though only one of the hosts uses it still and the other went to Apple), though with the desktop app's I might lean towards Spotify's design.
But the thing is I don't want Jay to Prince himself, as a huge fan of his I want his music to be heard by as many people as possible, and seeing all of these tracks removed off of avenues for people to hear them, and seeing all of his songs get blasted from YouTube, just make's it harder for people to get into him/and makes it harder for me to argue about Jay's ability when I can't just casually link a track.
But I understand it, and I see what it means to Jay, I see how his history has lead to it, and I know I'm not entitled to his music, so I see no reason to get angry or irritated by it, or see any reason to attack Jay for it for no reason.
I hope this has been informative, I've probably missed some points with this and might add more later if so, but now it's time to move on to quoting and destroying these haters/posting actual facts (but that'll be in a separate post).
Exactly.
- First thing's first, I think that we can all agree on this point, that disregarding any and all personal philosophies on the exclusiveness of music/art and whether this is beneficial towards the people (and even Jay himself), that this is Jay's music, not yours or anyone else's, and as the owner of his on Master's, Jay has the right choose to do whatever he like's/think's is best for him regarding his music, regardless of our feelings on it., so let's not act like Jay is killing a cat here.
- Second of all, I think that it would be beneficial for everyone in the thread if you tried to understand where Jay is coming from with this move, as it's deeply ingrained in his life story and philosophy on the world.
Jay's first major experience with the music industry was in 89, he has asked an older neighbor/friend/mentor Jaz-O (Big Jaz at the time of this story) to take him with him/do anything with him relating to music as he didn't want to be stuck in the streets, and as they were a duo Jaz obliged and Jay ended up going with him on a trip to London where Jaz was meeting with executives at his label/working on his debut album.
Jay has talked about this trip in many different avenues, but I'll start by quoting this excerpt from Jay's book Decoded:
"Up until that point, my life could be mapped with a triangle: Brooklyn, Washington Heights, Trenton," Jay wrote.
"It was a surreal, disorienting experience: two niggas from Marcy in a flat in Notting Hill," he added. Besides being his first trip outside of the country, the London trip presented a fork in the road for Jay.
As the story goes, the rhyming upstart at the time was originally there to shadow Jaz, who was signed to EMI Records, through the recording of his debut album. This album would feature the pair joining forces for the poppy collaboration, "Hawaiian Sophie."
Despite high hopes of the record taking them from Marcy to Hollywood ("We were looking at the plaques on their wall and thinking about the radio play"), what ended up happening was, as Jay described it, "career suicide."
"Jaz went from being courted at the highest level to not having EMI return his phone calls," he wrote. "After the way EMI handled Jaz, I buried my little rap dreams. If I had any pent-up resentment or anger, I took it out on the block."
Seeing this as a wake-up call, the Marcy-bred spitter then went back the street-pharmaceutical route and went to Maryland, where, as discussed in the book, it was "was an adventure."
"Shootouts in clubs, police investigations, whole crews arrested," he scribed, before adding, "I got out of there just in time. Some of my best friends weren't so lucky. It was tragic."
The bolded is the most important part of this excerpt, Jay is talking about how his experiences with Jaz lead to him not trusting the industry/believing it wasn't for him, that experience is something that would follow Jay for the rest of his life, as by the time RD came around Jay had not only seen what had happened to Jaz, but seeing what happened with his mentor Kane's career, witnessing tons and tons of rappers falling off, losing their publishing rights, getting replaced, and just in general getting screwed (as he's talked about in interviews and many of times in his lyrics), and Jay didn't want that to happen to him, which is why Jay's always been about ownership.
For example, after being unable to get a deal for years, Jay finally attained one with the help of Dame Dash at Priority Records, but through that experience and seeing the way they were handling his moves/useless work and wheel spinning that took him nowhere, Jay decided that he could do better on his own and Dame had that same fire within him (The third Roc founder Biggs as well once they linked up with him), and so they struck out on their own and in due time would make history.
Another experience that lead to this mentality, is Jay's dealings with Iceberg clothing (a now defunct European clothing company).
Jay had been promoting their clothing in his music, and as he did so it grew in popularity, Jay even coined himself "Iceberg Slim", but when Jay approached them about an endorsement deal he was soundly rebuffed, this experience made Jay weary of promoting any products that he didn't own himself, and as a result he went on to found Rocawear Clothing (which had humble beginnings but grew to be a giant).
That's not everything that lead to this philosophy from Jay, but those two examples effectively get the point across.
There's also an interview of Jay from 96 or 95 or 97 where he essentially details/talks about his goal to own everything that's his, every move Jay's made from the moment he dropped RD was to be able to get to this point.
This is just a continuation of what he's been spitting for years, such as on Izzo:
"I do this for my culture, to let them know
What a nigga look like when a nigga in a roaster
Show them how to move in a room full of vultures
Industry is shady, it needs to be taken over
Label owners hate me, I'm raising the status quo up
I'm overcharging niggas for what they did to the Cold Crush
Pay us like you owe us for all the years that you hoed us
We can talk, but money talks, so talk mo' bucks"
This is the same philosophy he's applied to his sports agency and why he's there to look after these young (largely black) athletes and make sure they move right and don't end up floundering everything they've made/getting taken advantage of (and is the Philosophy that his clients such as Kevin Durant speak on/what he's learned/gotten from Jay in their relationship), as well as what he's spread in advice to current generation young rappers/artists.
And then look at this article from Pitchfork about Jay's relationship with Hot 97 Radio and how they joined forces to take over Hip Hop:
http://pitchfork.com/features/artic...-hot-97-combined-forces-to-take-over-hip-hop/
One of the conclusions one of the people being interviewed makes towards the end of the article, is a sentiment that brings everything I've said thus far home, and it's that Jay really doesn't need Hot 97 anymore and hasn't for years/their relationship isn't necessary now, and one of the reasons why that is stated?
Tidal.
Tidal is the culmination of everything that Jay's worked on for his entire career thus far (along with his Roc agencies and what not), with tidal Jay Z now wouldn't need to go to hot 97 to drop a freestyle, or premiere a track, or drum up hype or whatever else, Tidal is Jay's way of brining all of his work under one tent and being the person that the buck stops with (and if we're to believe him doing so for other artists as well).
Jay removing his albums from these services is the same self-determination he's always practiced/the logical step for him based on his own philosophy/what has drove him to this point.
Now do I agree with it? No, not really.
To be clear I like Tidal (even though the launch was tone deaf and terrible), it's my only option other than Spotify since I don't use anything Apple, so obviously I had to try it out, and I went away preferring the Tidal's mobile app to Spotify's mobile app and the interface/features as well (one of my favorite Podcasts went deep into trying all of the services out and came away positive on Tidal, though only one of the hosts uses it still and the other went to Apple), though with the desktop app's I might lean towards Spotify's design.
But the thing is I don't want Jay to Prince himself, as a huge fan of his I want his music to be heard by as many people as possible, and seeing all of these tracks removed off of avenues for people to hear them, and seeing all of his songs get blasted from YouTube, just make's it harder for people to get into him/and makes it harder for me to argue about Jay's ability when I can't just casually link a track.
But I understand it, and I see what it means to Jay, I see how his history has lead to it, and I know I'm not entitled to his music, so I see no reason to get angry or irritated by it, or see any reason to attack Jay for it for no reason.
I hope this has been informative, I've probably missed some points with this and might add more later if so, but now it's time to move on to quoting and destroying these haters/posting actual facts (but that'll be in a separate post).
Exactly.
TickleMeElbow
Member
I still have Reasonable Doubt, In my Lifetime, Hard Knock Life, Life and Times of S. Carter, The Dynasty, The Blueprint, Blueprint 2, and The Black Album all on CD.....and ripped onto an MP3 player somewhere lol.
That was the only thing working for me on apple yesterday but it was off some other random album that wasn't watch the throne. I imagine Spotify will get it back in a day or two though if Apple was able to renew the rights.
The Strokes
Banned
What? I would start an argument but I don't like Jay-Z and you don't like (clearly) The Strokes. So what's the point.
To that I would definitely say yes.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
when is Tower Records coming back?
Here's the thing.
I switched to Tidal for 3 months around the time Lemonade came out, and genuinely gave the service a chance.
As a service, there ARE some things it does right. Of the big streaming services, Tidal hands-down has the best exclusive content. Live concert footage, artist performances, videos, exclusive tracks from MAJOR artists, and all for the same price Spotify/Apple/Google are asking for. The music library is smaller, and occasionally they didn't have random shit that I knew Spotify did, but it wasn't a deal breaker. Most of what I would listen to is there.
But I switched back GLADLY because Tidal has the same problem Google Music does: a music app so fucking terrible they should be embarrassed to charge for it. BASIC features that I've come to expect thanks to Spotify aren't there or are sloppily implemented. And the app crashed on me at least once a day. A NO streaming service I've used makes it more difficult to make a damn playlist.
You should be embarrassed by that app, Jay.
I switched to Tidal for 3 months around the time Lemonade came out, and genuinely gave the service a chance.
As a service, there ARE some things it does right. Of the big streaming services, Tidal hands-down has the best exclusive content. Live concert footage, artist performances, videos, exclusive tracks from MAJOR artists, and all for the same price Spotify/Apple/Google are asking for. The music library is smaller, and occasionally they didn't have random shit that I knew Spotify did, but it wasn't a deal breaker. Most of what I would listen to is there.
But I switched back GLADLY because Tidal has the same problem Google Music does: a music app so fucking terrible they should be embarrassed to charge for it. BASIC features that I've come to expect thanks to Spotify aren't there or are sloppily implemented. And the app crashed on me at least once a day. A NO streaming service I've used makes it more difficult to make a damn playlist.
You should be embarrassed by that app, Jay.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Nas won.
Mammoth Jones
Member
It's amazing.
Anyways I already purchased the music of his years ago on disc. And between that and iTunes match I'm good.
AfterTheFall
Member
Most of his work is still on Amazon Unlimited which is good I guess.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Most (or all) of his albums are back up on Apple Music.
Still empty on Spotify. Maybe he's cutting out services that fall below a certain revenue tier.
old manatee
Banned
I heard that he is going to pull his music from Tidal as well, and then he is going to go rogue with his own music streaming service called BCHCHR, which only has Jay-Z's Beach Chair - feat. Chris Martin. It's a risky move, but it could prove profitable if someone wants to hear Beach Chair.
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
Well he is part owner of the service I believe. Would you expect to see Pepsi machines at Coca Cola headquarters?
Count me in, beach chair is an awesome song.
Bounceounce
Member
And if anyone's wondering why I didn't respond to others in the thread, it's because I decided to make one of those guide posts to Jay Z like gaffers make when they want to explain the science behind and get people into pegging or whatever else, rather than just run around the thread.
Like I said, I'm not telling anyone to use the app/that they should use it, I've tried it in the past and I prefer the mobile app to Spotify's app/like the features/tested everything out with a podcast I follow, plus it has my favorite rappers discography so of course I'd lean towards it despite not being subscribed to it currently, but I'm not an advertiser for Jay's products like some of his fans are and did just as much Tidal trashing as anyone (in relation to the advertising/launch/strategy, not the service itself), it's not supporting the music program, it's just arguing against the vitriol/explaining why this is occurring based on his history and his rhetoric towards business in general over the years.
Obviously I don't support this move as I want Jay's music to be available to as many people as possible, and I know that the longer the keeps doing this the lower he's digging himself in the court of public opinion (as exhibited by the absurd insults and sanctimonious responses in this thread).
Like I said, I'm not telling anyone to use the app/that they should use it, I've tried it in the past and I prefer the mobile app to Spotify's app/like the features/tested everything out with a podcast I follow, plus it has my favorite rappers discography so of course I'd lean towards it despite not being subscribed to it currently, but I'm not an advertiser for Jay's products like some of his fans are and did just as much Tidal trashing as anyone (in relation to the advertising/launch/strategy, not the service itself), it's not supporting the music program, it's just arguing against the vitriol/explaining why this is occurring based on his history and his rhetoric towards business in general over the years.
Obviously I don't support this move as I want Jay's music to be available to as many people as possible, and I know that the longer the keeps doing this the lower he's digging himself in the court of public opinion (as exhibited by the absurd insults and sanctimonious responses in this thread).
Nas Stans woat
Jigolo
Member
Good move. He's a legend
Nah Ems is still worst
gigantor21
Member
This is exactly why I haven't gotten on board with any of them. It's already annoying enough with movies/TV, and I listen to music WAY more often than I consume any other media.
Bounceounce
Member
Tru, at least Nas is actual top three material.
Top 5 WOAT then.
Just_myles
Member
Bounceounce said:
Don't worry. This is hiphopGAF you're well intended and reasonably informative post will go largely ignored. cuz Spotify playlists.
Have had Apple Music for the last 18 months and have zero Jay Z on my playlists. Had totally forgotten about his music. Might have added some had I remembered (edit - its back already? LOL).
I now remember he exists, but I'm not buying his stuff.
Mission not accomplished.
Edit2: flog me for not reading dates. I fall for this all the time on Twitter also. Bad at interneting.
I now remember he exists, but I'm not buying his stuff.
Mission not accomplished.
Edit2: flog me for not reading dates. I fall for this all the time on Twitter also. Bad at interneting.
WickedCobra03
Member
Jay, cuz, Tidal is like your ugly sister you try to keep hooking up with friends... its not happening. Its cool, your good albums I have physical copies of.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Proof that exclusives work, I guess
Mammoth Jones
Member
My collection never left apple music since I uploaded it via iTunes match years before. But I see his stuff showing up on search.
I can't imagine that many people are going to drop spotify because Jay Z's lame ass took his albums off to actually make a statement.
Bounceounce
Member
The GOAT does what he wants to do.
You left Apple Music? For shame
The who?
Rktk
Member
I quite enjoyed the read despite it being entirely irrelevant, like Tidal.
Two reasons:
1. iTunes sucks. I'm waiting for the dedicated Apple Music app.
2. Collaborative playlists. I have shared playlists amongst family members where we all add and arrange songs.
I could also add Discover Weekly to that, but I can live without it.
QuantumSquid
Member
And now I can't listen to No Church in the Wild on Spotify anymore.
(joke's on him I only listened to that song for Frank Ocean's parts)
(joke's on him I only listened to that song for Frank Ocean's parts)
breakfuss
Member
K. Sorry to bring this thread back to life but in anticipation of the album I was about to bump some Jay. I then notice none of his shit is on Spotify. WHAT THEEEE FUCK. Guess I'm late in finding out. This negro has lost his mind. Bruh nobody is signing up for Tidal. If Beyoncé and Kanye couldn't move the needle no one can. It's bad enough having to deal with this exclusivity shit with video games. Goddamn. So blowed man lol.
Apple Music still has Watch The Throne and his Greatest Hits last I checked. iTunes Cloud Library is the real hero though, I have access to blueprint 1 and 2 through that
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