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Joseph Gordon-Levitt about voting for lesser of two evils (AMA)

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B

Blader

Member
The Albatross said:
I've made this appeal many times and I don't think I have the stamina to make it in full, but there are so many more things on the ballot than just Hillary and Trump. The presidential election might be the vote that has people talking the most on videogame forums, but it's the least consequential choice that you have on election day.

On election day, most people will have over a dozen things to vote for, from your local city council or local government elections, to state elections, and -- importantly -- ballot questions. Ballot questions represent your direct voice and are a directive to your local and state government that they have to follow the will of the people. This year important questions on ballots across the US are about the future of schools in your state, benefits for unemployed people, how much money you keep in your paycheck (or how much you pay to services), paternity and maternity leave, the legalization of marijuana, and hundreds of other important topics. Many of these ballot initiatives pass by only a few thousand, few hundred, or even few dozen votes.

There is an inverse relationship between the amount of attention a particular vote gets and the importance it has on your life. THe presidential election is very distant from your life, and by and large your life will be unchanged by who wins the presidential election. But as you go down the ticket, your day to day life becomes exponentially more affected. Your governor is going to pass laws that have a significant impact on your day to day life. Your local politicians are going to seek funding for projects that directly affect your life every day and the lives of the people who are important to you.

Finally, and I'm half-assing this appeal, is that even if the only election that you really care about is the presidential election, and if you feel that there are not candidates that represent you, if you don't vote then there will never be candidates who represent you. Many people on this forum felt that Bernie Sanders represented their values in this election, and that Sanders pushed the conversation into an area that was more closely aligned with their political values. Well, Bernie's first election as mayor of Burlington Vermont was decided by less than 20 votes. If those 20 people had decided to stay home that day, maybe it was raining, maybe they were late for work, maybe they just didn't feel like they had a say in politics and that there guy was going to lose, but if 20 of those people stayed home that day and Sanders had not been elected mayor (which he was a dark horse, outside chance candidate), then Sanders likely wouldn't have run again. He would have never become a state congressman, he would have never joined the House, he would have never become Senator Sanders, and he would have never challenged Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination. He would have never had his name on any consequential law, and he would have only been known as a local agitator in a small American city. On your ballots in your city is a candidate who could become your next "Bernie Sanders," but if you don't go out and vote for that person in 2016, then they're never going to ascend to a nationwide race in 2028, and there will be another person sharing some feeling in 2032 that the presidential candidates just don't represent them.

So, please, go vote.
Click to expand...

This is great. Thank you for posting it.
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
The Albatross said:
I've made this appeal many times and I don't think I have the stamina to make it in full, but there are so many more things on the ballot than just Hillary and Trump. The presidential election might be the vote that has people talking the most on videogame forums, but it's the least consequential choice that you have on election day.

On election day, most people will have over a dozen things to vote for, from your local city council or local government elections, to state elections, and -- importantly -- ballot questions. Ballot questions represent your direct voice and are a directive to your local and state government that they have to follow the will of the people. This year important questions on ballots across the US are about the future of schools in your state, benefits for unemployed people, how much money you keep in your paycheck (or how much you pay to services), paternity and maternity leave, the legalization of marijuana, and hundreds of other important topics. Many of these ballot initiatives pass by only a few thousand, few hundred, or even few dozen votes.

There is an inverse relationship between the amount of attention a particular vote gets and the importance it has on your life. THe presidential election is very distant from your life, and by and large your life will be unchanged by who wins the presidential election. But as you go down the ticket, your day to day life becomes exponentially more affected. Your governor is going to pass laws that have a significant impact on your day to day life. Your local politicians are going to seek funding for projects that directly affect your life every day and the lives of the people who are important to you.

Finally, and I'm half-assing this appeal, is that even if the only election that you really care about is the presidential election, and if you feel that there are not candidates that represent you, if you don't vote then there will never be candidates who represent you. Many people on this forum felt that Bernie Sanders represented their values in this election, and that Sanders pushed the conversation into an area that was more closely aligned with their political values. Well, Bernie's first election as mayor of Burlington Vermont was decided by less than 20 votes. If those 20 people had decided to stay home that day, maybe it was raining, maybe they were late for work, maybe they just didn't feel like they had a say in politics and that there guy was going to lose, but if 20 of those people stayed home that day and Sanders had not been elected mayor (which he was a dark horse, outside chance candidate), then Sanders likely wouldn't have run again. He would have never become a state congressman, he would have never joined the House, he would have never become Senator Sanders, and he would have never challenged Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination. He would have never had his name on any consequential law, and he would have only been known as a local agitator in a small American city. On your ballots in your city is a candidate who could become your next "Bernie Sanders," but if you don't go out and vote for that person in 2016, then they're never going to ascend to a nationwide race in 2028, and there will be another person sharing some feeling in 2032 that the presidential candidates just don't represent them.

So, please, go vote.
Click to expand...

this is a good post
 
F

Futureman

Member
it's kind of a simplistic quote. Like who cares what JGL has to say? I've read so much more thoughtful and eloquent thoughts on the election on NeoGAF than the quote in the OP.
 
P

phanphare

Banned
The Albatross said:
While I'm all for voting and made an impassioned appeal a few posts up, there's ample evidence that making it a national holiday doesn't increase voter turnout and may actually decrease voter turnout. I also absolutely don't think it should be made mandatory, both from a logistical point of view, and that it violates our most basic civil rights as Americans.

That said, if I could implement two new holidays it would be the first Tuesday in November and the Monday after the Super Bowl.
Click to expand...

I'd vote for that
 
C

ChaosZeroX

Banned
I'm definitely voting for neither of those two fucks.

Gary Johnson FTW.

I really do hope people look up Gary Johnson and that he gets enough of the poll vote to be in the debate.
 
S

Sulik2

Member
To be fair, the votes Nader took from Gore wouldn't have mattered if Jeb hadn't gotten away with fixing the Florida results.
 
C

CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls

Banned
xtrasauce said:
So you're not even going to address the OP, about how voting for the least problematic candidate may have saved us from a disastrous war and global financial crisis?

Your voice is irrelevant in this thread.
Click to expand...

I reflected on the quote provided in the OP which stated:

I didn't see the two candidates as very different from each other. And I didn't want to choose between the lesser of two evils. I voted for the Green Party's Ralph Nader. Bush won. Over the next eight years, he and his administration started a disastrous illegal war and landed the economy in the worst place it'd been since the Great Depression.
Click to expand...

My response caused the typical reaction of "you should vote anyway regardless of if you vote for the lesser of two evils." I appreciate Albatross's call to reason as it was insightful and honest.

My response was directed towards the general election of president. No where did I state that I was not considering voting for my local nominees as I believe my vote counts far more in my county than in the nation. This thread was meant to be another discussion about the presidential election, and that is what my original response was in reply to.

Regardless of your opinion of my voice being "irrelevant" (funny, considering that the dogpile attempts to repress the voice of the dissenter which continues to be a looming issue in nearly every facet of American social issues), I still believe I have a right as an American to withhold my vote, which I consider irrelevant in this election while being able to discuss my opinion of the candidates.
 
Elitist1945

Elitist1945

Member
Just want to say those who don't vote piss me off. I may not me American, but I turned 18 just in time to vote for Justin Trudeau and get rid of Harper.

I urge you guys to do the same. If you don't vote at all, you may as well have voted for Trump.
 
K

Kill Your Masters

Member
People who won't vote for "the lesser evil", are you that selfish and irresponsible? You don't care for POCs, minorities, lgbt rights, women rights, climate change? And risk a fascist winning the election because Hillary is "crooked"?

If you want to throw away your vote, why note use it to help others? The fuck y'all got mine mentality is quite disturbing.
 
M

MadLaughter

Member
Trump has literally advocated for war crimes, seems oblivious to why we don't use nukes, thinks a Mexican judge cannot be impartial because of his race, was punished for refusing to rent living spaces to people of color, and calls women fat cows.

HOW ABOUT YOU VOTE AGAINST THAT GUY.
 
D

DeathyBoy

Banned
Caja 117 said:
Not true, people who dont vote do it so when shit happens they just have a cop out answer by saying "I didnt vote for her/him"
Click to expand...

Just gonna leave this here, said by a guy smarter than anyone here.

19aebcd860e05dc3948f5b9a387e7e1d.jpg
 
C

ccbfan

Member
As long as electoral college exist your vote doesn't count as much as it should.

Voting for the lessor of two evils (Clinton in this case) only makes sense in battleground states.

In like 40 out of 50 state your single vote is not going to matter for who gets all the EV for your states.

Voting for a third party candidate in those states can be more beneficial than "Voting for the lessor of two evils". Cause that's your "Even though so and so is not going to win, I hope a major party moves toward this direction to get those lost votes" card.

People continued to vote for Bernie and continue his campaign even though he had no chance to win. He lost the primaries but he succeeded in pushing Hillary more left.
 
T

Toa TAK

Banned
The Albatross said:
I've made this appeal many times and I don't think I have the stamina to make it in full, but there are so many more things on the ballot than just Hillary and Trump. The presidential election might be the vote that has people talking the most on videogame forums, but it's the least consequential choice that you have on election day.

On election day, most people will have over a dozen things to vote for, from your local city council or local government elections, to state elections, and -- importantly -- ballot questions. Ballot questions represent your direct voice and are a directive to your local and state government that they have to follow the will of the people. This year important questions on ballots across the US are about the future of schools in your state, benefits for unemployed people, how much money you keep in your paycheck (or how much you pay to services), paternity and maternity leave, the legalization of marijuana, and hundreds of other important topics. Many of these ballot initiatives pass by only a few thousand, few hundred, or even few dozen votes.

There is an inverse relationship between the amount of attention a particular vote gets and the importance it has on your life. THe presidential election is very distant from your life, and by and large your life will be unchanged by who wins the presidential election. But as you go down the ticket, your day to day life becomes exponentially more affected. Your governor is going to pass laws that have a significant impact on your day to day life. Your local politicians are going to seek funding for projects that directly affect your life every day and the lives of the people who are important to you.

Finally, and I'm half-assing this appeal, is that even if the only election that you really care about is the presidential election, and if you feel that there are not candidates that represent you, if you don't vote then there will never be candidates who represent you. Many people on this forum felt that Bernie Sanders represented their values in this election, and that Sanders pushed the conversation into an area that was more closely aligned with their political values. Well, Bernie's first election as mayor of Burlington Vermont was decided by less than 20 votes. If those 20 people had decided to stay home that day, maybe it was raining, maybe they were late for work, maybe they just didn't feel like they had a say in politics and that there guy was going to lose, but if 20 of those people stayed home that day and Sanders had not been elected mayor (which he was a dark horse, outside chance candidate), then Sanders likely wouldn't have run again. He would have never become a state congressman, he would have never joined the House, he would have never become Senator Sanders, and he would have never challenged Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination. He would have never had his name on any consequential law, and he would have only been known as a local agitator in a small American city. On your ballots in your city is a candidate who could become your next "Bernie Sanders," but if you don't go out and vote for that person in 2016, then they're never going to ascend to a nationwide race in 2028, and there will be another person sharing some feeling in 2032 that the presidential candidates just don't represent them.

So, please, go vote.
Click to expand...
Thumbs up.
 
H

hamboner

Neo Member
ccbfan said:
As long as electoral college exist your vote doesn't count as much as it should.

Voting for the lessor of two evils (Clinton in this case) only makes sense in battleground states.

In like 40 out of 50 state your single vote is not going to matter for who gets all the EV for your states.

Voting for a third party candidate in those states can be more beneficial than "Voting for the lessor of two evils". Cause that's your "Even though so and so is not going to win, I hope a major party moves toward this direction to get those lost votes" card.

People continued to vote for Bernie and continue his campaign even though he had no chance to win. He lost the primaries but he succeeded in pushing Hillary more left.
Click to expand...

The major third party candidates are garbage.

A libertarian and a anti-vax enabler? Pass.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
DeathyBoy said:
Just gonna leave this here, said by a guy smarter than anyone here.

19aebcd860e05dc3948f5b9a387e7e1d.jpg
Click to expand...

Carlin is a funny comedian, but this is a strawman and bull shit. He's essentially saying

"The reason I don't vote is because your argument that you can't complain if you don't vote is wrong."

Well, George, RIP, but that's not my argument why you should vote, and maybe if you had advocated to the hundreds of thousands of your fans to go vote for logical, no bull shit candidates while you were alive, then our two leading candidates today would not be who they are. This image macro is frustrating for me because a major part of Carlin's routine was advocating for common sense, and a lot of it was on political and social issues, but then he'd set an example to not vote. And it's like, George, nobody is taking away your right to complain (you've made a career out of complaining), so stop pretending like that's your justification to not vote.
 
M

MadLaughter

Member
Here's how I imagine the election:

Picture those little bags of Bertie Botts Every Flavor Beans. You need one of these to live, there are 2 of them left.

The first one is grass flavored. Not ideal!

But the second one is not actually a bean at all. It is a LITERAL CHUNK OF SHIT SOMEONE HAS MOLDED INTO THE SHAPE OF A BEAN AND ALSO CAST A MAGIC SPELL ON IT TO MAKE IT RACIST

I'll take grass, please.
 
F

Foggy

Member
It was pretty sobering when I came to the realization that Clinton could walk up to someone in the street and shoot them in the face and she'd still have my vote(to echo an infamous Trump-ism). Shit sucks.
 
G

Garrett Hawke

Member
If you don't vote against trump then you let him in.

If you see someone kicking a homeless person and you don't intervene, you are partially responsible because you did nothing to help.

It should weigh on your conscience.
 
M

Mr. Giggles

Member
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls said:
I've chosen not to vote at all. My voice is irrelevant in this quagmire of bullshit.
Click to expand...

It always surprises me how people just cast to the side their right to vote.

Growing up in a dictatorship and now living in a democracy I can't even begin to tell you how awesome it is just to voice your opinion even if it isn't popular or if it isn't listened too.

But keep up the edginess
 
Q

QuantumBro

Banned
There like a 95% chance I vote for Clinton come November, however I have no interest in casting a vote in my district's house race; both candidates are garbage and I'd rather have the republican for two years so we can get a much better candidate running in two years.
 
Bolivar687

Bolivar687

Banned
Of course, the ultimate irony is Hillary advocated for and advanced those disastrous illegal wars and we have every indication that she would only continue the failures of interventionism, if maybe in a less overt way.

Every voter ever has always believed the country would sink if the other candidate got in. Over the ensuing weeks, you're going to read a lot more articles about the lesser of two evils and the high stakes of Supreme Court justices. The reality is the country probably won't disappear under four years of Trump and the same goes for conservatives concerned about Hillary. However, what is becoming increasingly concerning is whether the country can survive 20 more years of the polarized politics that produced such undesirable candidates in the first place. The threat of the other side and the Supreme Court will always be there to scare you out of your better judgment - instead you can choose to be a part of the solution right now.

Maybe JGL is right, that alternative candidates are best voted for outside of the Presidency but that doesn't justify coercing me into voting against my conscience and supporting a candidate who does not represent my values at all.
 
R

royalan

Member
hammysaurusrex said:
Good quote, I totally agree with him.

I certainly understand why people are frustrating by not getting the option to vote entirely in their self-interest and I have my own embarrassing stories from my freshman year of college about political views, but I don't actually take it as a legitimate criticism of the electoral process.

Nearly every single "other" demographic has always been forced to vote for the lesser of two evils - the one least likely to work against their self-interest, rather than an imaginary candidate that actually represents them and promotes their self-interest. In doing so, they have been forced to make compromises, sometimes severe ones, to their political ideals and identity. To be direct, I don't find an astounding amount of sympathy for white straight college-educated males who find themselves suddenly in the position most others have always been in.

I'd love to meet this imaginary candidate people have in mind who will come in on a horse and be the unequivocal best choice for a wide range of demographics and special interests such that no one is ever forced to make a political compromise with their vote. I've never met this candidate, and I doubt I ever will.
Click to expand...

Great post.

This needs to be an automatic response to "I'm not voting because nobody represents meeeee!"

Uh...welcome to voting?
 
T

teacupcopter

Banned
Australian voting system (plus a parliamentary system) would benefit many imo. We still vote in idiots but at least we have third party idiots too.

1. Mandatory voting with fines if you don't. Because adults in a civilised democracy need to be responsible. So now you can't just trump style whip up a frenzy of racist white people and disenfranchise black people.

2. Preferential voting. I live in an electorate that will skew conservative very heavily. I voted 1 socialist / 2 greens (the greens are a major third party in Australia and are actually good) 3 labor (the democrat equivalent) then put the others / conservatives last. This means I was able to put in my preference that far left smaller parties should get it without jeapordising the "main" opponent of the Conservative party.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
ChaosZeroX said:
I'm definitely voting for neither of those two fucks.

Gary Johnson FTW.

I really do hope people look up Gary Johnson and that he gets enough of the poll vote to be in the debate.
Click to expand...
Guy knows nothing about anything outside the 50 varieties of pot plant. What is Aleppo? What is Kyoto Protocol? What is Ice Cream? Is that you John Wayne? Or is it me?
 
E

Eidan

Member
Mr. Giggles said:
It always surprises me how people just cast to the side their right to vote.

Growing up in a dictatorship and now living in a democracy I can't even begin to tell you how awesome it is just to voice your opinion even if it isn't popular or if it isn't listened too.

But keep up the edginess
Click to expand...
It's pretty goddamn stupid. Even if you find the candidates for president to be lackluster, you won't vote for senators? Your congressmen? Your state and local representatives, who have an outsized amount of impact on your day to day life? It's just dumb.
 
A

Azzanadra

Member
He's right.

If I was American, my own personal logic would be to hold my nose and vote Clinton in a swing state, and vote Stein in a solid blue/red state as she more closely aligns with my views.

But never have I seen a more terrible list of competing candidates in my life, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump represent the worst aspects of their individual parties. The only scenario in which it could be worse if it was Martin O'Malley vs Ted Cruz, which may be a possibility in the future.
 
D

dave is ok

aztek is ok
I'll probably just leave the president field blank. They didn't give me a candidate to vote for this year, that's on them.

I'll vote down ballot and on questions.
 
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