Avon Barksdale
Member
I'm sure there was.
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July Wrasslin |OT| The Rings a Field, the Field of War, Thats Where We Lay the Law
- Thread starter BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
- Start date
I'm sure there was.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Broken Lesnar's debut was a totally different beast. He had Paul speaking for him and he hit hugely impressive big guy spots as he decimated the roster. Brock had something beyond his look and Reigns doesn't. On top of that it's hardly as though we're in the middle of Reign's debut when he's been on the main roster for over a year and a half so I think it's fair to expect more from him on the mic or in the ring.
I would go a bit alongside this and say don't threadshit OT threads WITH wrestling. Any community specific derail is always a disaster.
I just remember him coming out and demolishing Jeff Hardy. And you know what? I'm okay with a legit collegiate wrestler devouring a spot monkey.
British Monsoon
Member
The one thing Brock had in his favour was that he looked dangerous - not just physically imposing, but he never had any trouble convincing people that he was a real threat to his opponent (and himself). Also, that amateur wrestling background.
Roman's fine, but I agree with whoever it was said he's being pushed to the top too fast - this is what comes from having mid-card titles that aren't worth a damn. There's no obvious progression any more, when it should be US/tag titles > IC title > WWE title. To find a IC champion who held the belt BEFORE becoming WWE champion, you'd have to go back to Dolph in 2010, then Punk in 2008, then Jeff in 2006.
Roman's fine, but I agree with whoever it was said he's being pushed to the top too fast - this is what comes from having mid-card titles that aren't worth a damn. There's no obvious progression any more, when it should be US/tag titles > IC title > WWE title. To find a IC champion who held the belt BEFORE becoming WWE champion, you'd have to go back to Dolph in 2010, then Punk in 2008, then Jeff in 2006.
If you watched WWE in 2004-2005, they were doing the same for both Orton and Cena. Of course Orton crossed the path of Triple H, and also ran into trouble with drugs and had a terrible attitude (still does). But Orton was groomed to be one of the bigger stars, despite his faults, so they would hang onto him. They were destined to push Lesnar hard but he ended up wanting to go elsewhere so they pushed Cena more and more throughout 2004. They did similar push with Batista, but he was older, obviously.
Point is, if they're going to have ideas down the road for a guy, like they do with Reigns, it doesn't matter if knows three moves, ten moves, or 1001 holds, they'll push who they want no matter who complains. Cesaro is one guy who has great skills, can talk on the level of Roman, if not better (though that standard is infinitely low), but they seem to be directionless with him. Pairing him with Heyman has been poor.
Dr Duncan Steel
Member
Wrestlemania 31 is puh-lenty of time to really groom Roman Reigns into the alpha A-1 top dog premium ultra clean sheen status he's destined to be and it's about time we embrace him for who he is instead of what he isn't.
He's the next Diesel.
He's the next Diesel.
Cheers WWE. Auto-renew stays off.
Was already bummed out by reading earlier in the thread about it only being 20 episodes, but now I've not even got a chance to try it before the subscription lapses. Brilliant move.
He actually reminded me alot of Scott Hall yesterday. But yeah, all we're seeing now is prep-work for early 2015 push. As said, give Reigns a proper chance, he's gonna be huge.
---
On to interesting stuff, as per Bryan and Dave, here's a website where (former) WWE employee's explain what is cool and what sucks over at WWE HQ: http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/World-Wrestling-Entertainment-Reviews-E5718.htm
Officerrob
Banned
"Green as grass", yet capable of working 15-20 minute main event singles matches in his first six months... Lesnar was and continues to be a freak of nature that nobody should be compared to.
Reigns on the other hand has been on the main roster almost two years and has yet to have a meaningful singles match. His match against Bray on Raw a few months back was just plain bad. I'm still waiting for Reigns to be more than a high spot or hot tag guy, but that has not happened yet
Dr Duncan Steel
Member
As someone who just saw face Razor Ramon act like a FUCKING DICK to a jobber by the name of Austin Steele, Comparing the two isn't the fairest assessment. I mean yeah he's called the bad guy, but nothing tells me that he represented the face of the company during that time and I don't think that's what they ever planned. I might be wrong, what do I know?
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
"Only" 20 episodes? You expected...more than a 20 hour documentary?!
When you think about it, that's all Cena is in most matches. I'm not saying Cena can't go by saying that, he's proven that when he wants to with the right opponent, he can put on great matches. But it's like Reigns has been raised into the same template of "You're going to be a star, pick 5 moves and that's all you need baby girl".
I think most of his single feuds are going to be him overcoming the odds after getting beaten by a big man most of the match, hitting his spots and then getting the win, much like Cena. The kids obviously lap that up, but it doesn't make good TV in my eyes.
Rollins provides some hope though. Otherwise, excepting a part-time Brock, the main event picture will have some dire matches for quite a while. It's a shame Jericho wasn't back earlier, as I'd much rather see him and Wyatt in the 4 way rather than Kane and Reigns.
I was hoping they'd just do a month of TV per weekly episode or so and compare them against each other. Something that could actually continue for a long time so you have over a year of programming there week on week, rather than something that will just last up until the next subscription renewal time.
Again, if the first episode was available in the archive, I'd be able to make a more informed decision prior to it starting, but they've not given me that luxury.
I don't get the pessimism towards Reigns at this point. It's not like they're strapping him any time soon. Give the man a chance. I thought his work last night showed that he has the potential to cut an imposing promo. He has a great vocal tone that oozes cool. He has a great look. He has 3 easily identifiable big spots. How many guys can you say that about on the roster?
Kane? Nope. Chokeslam and tombstone.
Big Show? Nope. Knockout punch and chokeslam.
Orton? Yeah...draping ddt, powetslam, punt kick, and RKO
Rollins? Yeah...360 plancha, curb stomp, and buckle bomb
Cena? Yeah. AA, five knuckle shuffle, shoulder blocks, STF
Ambrose? Nope. Dirty deeds, rope rebound...?
Reigns can get there. We're watching him be tested with the ball just a bit right now. I'm enjoying creative giving him a bigger spotlight to see what he can do. It's fun as a fan to see him developing.
Reigns was also the last man out of the ring to end the show last night and he went around and high fived everybody around the ring. He wants this.
Kane? Nope. Chokeslam and tombstone.
Big Show? Nope. Knockout punch and chokeslam.
Orton? Yeah...draping ddt, powetslam, punt kick, and RKO
Rollins? Yeah...360 plancha, curb stomp, and buckle bomb
Cena? Yeah. AA, five knuckle shuffle, shoulder blocks, STF
Ambrose? Nope. Dirty deeds, rope rebound...?
Reigns can get there. We're watching him be tested with the ball just a bit right now. I'm enjoying creative giving him a bigger spotlight to see what he can do. It's fun as a fan to see him developing.
Reigns was also the last man out of the ring to end the show last night and he went around and high fived everybody around the ring. He wants this.
I think the fans who are pessimistic about Reigns are going to make it a self-fulfilled prophecy to turn on him. They are kind of just waiting for his Superman Push to kick in just to say "See, it's going to be John Cena all over again. I knew it. Boo! Reigns sucks!" What WWE has done with Reigns so far this year is exactly what they should do and that's to build him up slow and steady. The only faults so far were him spiking the drinks and probably getting more title shots than he should.
Pretty much what I meant with my post in a nutshell. I don't really get the negativity on Reigns based on what-if's and would-have's. Fact of the matter is he is getting a push, but not the hardest one. Sure, he's in a main event match, but he's not the biggest guy in the match, nor is he by any means considered as the guy walking out with the title. It's a proper old-school slow push. He gets a bit of mic time, gets a rub here and there, gets to fight and win small battles like the one against Kane and the crowd gets used to liking and cheering him more and more.
This btw is why I said he reminded me of Scott Hall earlier.
oh shit.This is probably like the best community for wrasslin talk without too much smark and just enough mark. Other places seem to be a den of trolls. So it would suck if this community get endeavored.
HerbertFish
Member
Reigns vs Bray is still the worst match of the year. I'm blaming Reigns. I'm guessing it's also the sole reason for keeping him in non singles matches pretty much ever since.
spindashing
Banned
Reigns is in that Rocky Maivia phase. There is talent there, it's just not his final form.
I get those vibes..especially with Cena being in the picture. The whole reeks of warrior/hogan except Cena is not putting a Hogan by a long shot. I see them wrestling at summerslam or survivor series atleast...reigns going for the spear which he ends up taking an AA.. Cena gets the victory and applaud Reigns for his effort. Next thing you know Reigns will end up feuding with a midcarder the following night.
Rinse and repeat.
Kane. Chokeslam, tombstone, top rope clothesline
Big Show. Knockout punch, chokeslam, corner 'shhhh' chop
Miz. turnbuckle clothesline, stroke, figure four(lol)
Kofi. That leg drop thing, that kick thing, that other kick thing.
I can say that about 90% of the roster
Do you also blame Cena and Kane for their Bray matches sucking?
Nocturnowl
Member
Looking over at Vinny Macs rules of Wrasslegaf etiquette it's kind of telling that such points had to be typed up in the first place.
I can't see Reigns as a Cena, I view him more as a Batista.
Speaking of which Reigns right now seems to be in a similar spot to Tweener Batista in 2005 before his title run, he's got the backing and the look but he's not quite there yet in the ring and on the mic, but Big Dave grew quickly into his top spot and showed improvement over the following months so i'm not passing judgement on Reigns yet myself.
A little bit more diversity in his moveset should go a long way and I think he'll come into his own character wise soon enough, to go back to the Batista comparison he needs to morph his iffy WM21 dance on the ramp into the machine gun motion of pyro hype.
I can't see Reigns as a Cena, I view him more as a Batista.
Speaking of which Reigns right now seems to be in a similar spot to Tweener Batista in 2005 before his title run, he's got the backing and the look but he's not quite there yet in the ring and on the mic, but Big Dave grew quickly into his top spot and showed improvement over the following months so i'm not passing judgement on Reigns yet myself.
A little bit more diversity in his moveset should go a long way and I think he'll come into his own character wise soon enough, to go back to the Batista comparison he needs to morph his iffy WM21 dance on the ramp into the machine gun motion of pyro hype.
By that same token, the 1 or 2 legitimate gimmick posters need to drop it, already. They know who they are.
My point was that he's developed his toolkit pretty quickly. How long did it take Show to get all three of those moves? We're talking about a guy with fewer than two years on the main roster who has some very impressive-looking offense and already has two trademark poses as well. (fist in the air, which is easy to latch onto as a fan, and the "oooooooohhhhhh!" rage pose he does before a big spot...nevermind the superman setup) He's developing before our very eyes, and I think his growth as a performer has been rather quick.
HerbertFish
Member
I don't think Cenas matches were bad with Bray outside the ending of the last man standing. Sure I'll blame Cena for that part though. I don't even remember Kane vs Bray.
mechashiva
Member
It amazes me how beautiful and stacked the network is and just how negative and entitled people act with it. It's 10 a month with free ppv's. Everything else is icing on the cake but I think they're waiting for free bj's or diva porn from it. Even then they'd probably be like, okay cool, Aj and Paige did it but where was Summer Rae?
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Goddamn Monday Night Wars was good. Smart of WWE, even though it APPEARS inconvenient for them to not have it archived, to just show it one night. Builds hype for it and gets people gathered around its airdate. I'm sure someone ripped it on them torrentz sitez and shit if you REALLY want to get it, but it was a good hour. Leaves me optimistic for the other 19 episodes.
Whatever. Next to nothing happened.
HerbertFish
Member
Ambrose vs Orton was like 20 minutes and pretty good. That's about it. Even that could have been better
blackaroni
Member
Not as good as last week's episode, but I thought it was pretty good still.
First match continued to be the best. Show was not bad but a snoozer.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Skimming through the thread, it sounds like people really enjoyed Fandango.
This is amazing! Laughing!
This is amazing! Laughing!
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Apparently it had its moments. The real highlight was that this thread was put on notice. Seems that promo you cut a week ago was a sign of things to come.
HerbertFish
Member
Yeah actually all of the comedy stuff was great last night. Fandango, Sandow, Dust bros, Bo Dallas, all fantastic as usual. Just none of the key storylines advanced in the least bit.
I'm with you. I'm surprised when I see people in a wrestling thread opine that the Network isn't worth $10 a month. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's still early in the Network's life.
Thats what I'm saying. I don't know why folks are so negative towards the network. This is the greatest thing wwe has ever done next to wrasslin buddies. I spend ten dollars a month just for all the ppvs, shows, and wrestling memories to shed a tear. Sure it's rough around the edges and there's no nitro yet but it's slowly coming along.
Speaking of which my sub is about to run next month :/.
Yeah, was seeing that. I kind of lost it, don't like to get mad like this, but it is... nice (?) to see I wasn't insane and this thread has a real problem in it. I said what I had to say, tho, even if I was wrong or named the wrong names, there could be an effort in making this place less... man, I don't even know, but it need to be less.
I'll see which of these are on youtube; this thing of me only watching the Network shows to get the recap has the unfortunate side effect of they usually not recaping the random good bits almost every Raw has in favor to recapping the "not advancing storylines" bit.
Dango always been awesome to me. He plays his gimmick without fail and the commentary he provided last night......spectacular.
Dude sounded like a obscene phone call.
It already has kicked in. I think it's the other way around, and that WWE make it a self-fulfilling prophecy when they don't need to.
I got no problem with Reigns being pushed, he's got a great look, plenty of potential, he ought to be a big deal. But there's a way they push certain people, that nearly immediately becomes obnoxious and ends up turning you off them instead. They did it with Sheamus, Lashley, they've done it for 9 years with Cena, and other favourites they've had over the years.
Ambrose is getting pushed, he has an angle, promo time, long matches, and he's getting over as a result. Reigns is starting to feel like they're grabbing him and stuffing him down your throat screaming "LIKE HIM! LIKE HIM NOW DAMMIT!". He appears constantly every night to be invincible and have other faces tell you how great he is, commentary won't stop (like that Main Event where the main event was "Roman doing a promo" and the commentary told you this literally every minute or two all night. He's over, of course, but it's all so overwhelming immediately that it's going to have negative side effects inevitably.
I understand they want him to be viewed as a big deal, pretty quick, but it all seems to be laying the groundwork for a lot of the audience getting tired of him before he even gets to the top face position. These kinds of superpushes always get a part of the audience to support him, as quite frankly they just go with what WWE says most of the time, but do your really want another top face half the crowd doesn't like? It doesn't help that he's still green and getting the biggest push in the company, just with the hope that he might be good enough by the time he's the top guy.
He would do better in the long run with a less in-your-face push that takes it slower, he's only like 28, there shouldn't be any rush for this. Once you have the audience demanding he be pushed instead of demanding they like him, he'll be set.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I'll tell you what my friend.
Earnest apology to Heel and all will be right with the world. You did him dirty, Sblargh! Keep it playful!
Heel is legit wounded over that. He'd never say it to your face, he has too much budo for that - but it hurt.
So this feud is still happening right? Not that I'm opposed to a Paige/AJ tag-team leading to a feud later on, but I was kinda excited for Paige turning heel and them feuding now. Last nights angle had no hints towards Paige turning on AJ though, but that could have been due to focusing on the turn of Cameron on Naomi.
I've watched the old PPVs I want to and they're being quite annoying with how infrequent ECW weekly goes up. Barely got any interest in the current PPVs so I'm probably getting about an hour a week for NXT, maybe more if that weeks Beyond The Ring is good?
I was really hoping that Monday Night Wars would be better paced, but with it going for 20 weeks, once it's done, it's done and it was one of the main reasons I wanted the network. Just thinking it's better to wait for it to officially launch in the UK, cancel unblock-us as well and then I'll have a much bigger library to dip into when I'm back.