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July Wrasslin |OT| The Rings a Field, the Field of War, Thats Where We Lay the Law
- Thread starter BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
- Start date
Unless it's a distracted roll up.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Wait, so when John Cena gave Ric Flair the World Heavy Weight Championship Belt on RAW this week, was that WWE's way of retiring the belt?
The worst are the OUT OF NOWHERE RKO setups. Guys begin doing something they never do or one of their normal spots but at an awkward angle that looks dubious, therefore making it super obvious they are setting up for that damn RKO spot.
Everyone now hates Roman for things he hasn't even done yet, but I can tell you that Roman is ahead of the game from where Cena was at the same point in their careers.
Cena was 4 years in at Vengeance 2003. He had a match with the Undertaker. Taker could not carry Cena at all. Undertaker, who is probably the best guy at laying out matches and carrying guys over the past 15 years. Cena was completely unexciting in the ring. No confidence in what he was doing, bad at the things he did do, stood around waiting to be told what to do, had no big spots or moves. It was the least interesting match of the night. Billy Gunn vs Jamie Noble was a more fun match.
Roman is 4 years into his career, has a MUCH better presence, is much cooler, better looking, and at least has SOMETHING exciting for his matches. He has moves that people pop for. Cena didn't at all at the same period and was stinking up the joint on PPV with Taker doing his best to carry the guy. He also had a weak and boring match with Brock in 2003, when Brock was having fun as fuck 8 minute matches on Smackdown with opening guys. He also had a disappointing match with Angle on PPV. He won the US title at WM, but a year after having a PPV title match and feud with Taker, he was embroiled in a bitter feud with RENE DUPREE. Because he wasn't ready and they cooled his fucking jets until he was closer to being ready.
When Roman starts having marquee solo matches on PPV with top talents and he puts in poor performances, his push will be cooled until he's able to have the experience to deliver what they want from him. But my point is that Roman is more exciting than Cena was at the same point.
Cena was 4 years in at Vengeance 2003. He had a match with the Undertaker. Taker could not carry Cena at all. Undertaker, who is probably the best guy at laying out matches and carrying guys over the past 15 years. Cena was completely unexciting in the ring. No confidence in what he was doing, bad at the things he did do, stood around waiting to be told what to do, had no big spots or moves. It was the least interesting match of the night. Billy Gunn vs Jamie Noble was a more fun match.
Roman is 4 years into his career, has a MUCH better presence, is much cooler, better looking, and at least has SOMETHING exciting for his matches. He has moves that people pop for. Cena didn't at all at the same period and was stinking up the joint on PPV with Taker doing his best to carry the guy. He also had a weak and boring match with Brock in 2003, when Brock was having fun as fuck 8 minute matches on Smackdown with opening guys. He also had a disappointing match with Angle on PPV. He won the US title at WM, but a year after having a PPV title match and feud with Taker, he was embroiled in a bitter feud with RENE DUPREE. Because he wasn't ready and they cooled his fucking jets until he was closer to being ready.
When Roman starts having marquee solo matches on PPV with top talents and he puts in poor performances, his push will be cooled until he's able to have the experience to deliver what they want from him. But my point is that Roman is more exciting than Cena was at the same point.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
That's not that stacked honestly. It can be perceived that way because of the current landscape of Japanese wrestling. The price is also dubious at best. Look for AJPW to be pretty progressive in terms of iPPVs and pricing. Details to be announced soon. Akiyama don't play that.
FallingEdge
Member
I think the argument people make is that they haven't put him in those types of matches. The only notable singles match I can remember him having was with Bray. Everything else has had multiple people to help carry him. Even his upcoming title match is a Fatal 4-Way.
Plus we've already seen enough ring clearing Spears and Superman punches to last a lifetime.
Future Foundation
Member
Now with video!
According to (I think) Meltzer, Cena did it just 'cause. The two belts will continue to represent the WWE WHC.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
But can you understand their fears though? Especially in a post PPV world with only one current star and one who is injured. The E cannot afford to cool their jets with Roman and I doubt they will. They need money and growth NOW. And with Vince's thoughts on developmental, well Roman's failure would not look good for the future of the Performance Center or Paul's hopes of being a power broker. May you live in interesting times.....
British Monsoon
Member
It can be perceived that way because the current Dragon Gate product is very hot with the fans, it's their biggest show of the year and there's at least four matches there that, on paper, look to be all sorts of amazing. I wouldn't be surprised if Flamita vs Dragon Kid steals the show.
Jimmy King
Member
My new tumblr project will address the Cena/Reigns situation and I'm confident it will be the final word on the matter.
slightconfuse
Banned
Rusev new gimmick
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
Problem is Cena at Vengance 2003 was almost two years away from becoming the top guy, Reigns seems to be a matter of months away. With Bryan injured, Reigns is already being made the central focus of every TV show, like it's January and he's the Rumble winner already.
This also isn't 2003 anymore, when WWE had plenty of stars, especially on Smackdown with Taker, Lesnar, Angle, Eddie, Mysterio, etc. They are really hurting for top stars right now, and Punk is gone and Bryan is injured, Batista is gone for now, Orton is cold, Sheamus is falling down the card, Cesaro is still in the midcard, etc.
Bray, Ambrose and Rollins are all viable as top guys but they don't seem to be pushing any of them to that level.
So they're accelerating the Reigns push, even though he's a long, long away from being ready.
bean breath
Member
British Monsoon
Member
Preach, friend strobogo.
The other part of this is the simple fact that he's got the typical Look, and there's fans who will auto-reject that template and want the ROH-type instead, no matter what. It's seen as a zero sum game: if Reigns or Sheamus or part-time big names like Rock or Lesnar get time, that's additional time that could have gone to Rollins and Bryan and Ambrose and whatever the next great indie hero toiling away in NXT will be (and note, all the dudes I just named are awesome). That if guys with The Look get pushed, it means their absolute favorites won't and never will and can never overcome, etc.
Wrestling fandom as a zero-sum game is strange, yo. Like everyone you like, dislike everyone you don't. Ambrose was the one who said its dudes in underwear making faces at each other. People need to calm down about pushpops and berries and shootwerk and just watch the shit.
bean breath
Member
YEEEAAAH!
I wanna know
Have you ever Cena/Reigns
I wanna know
Have you ever Cena/Reigns
Coming down on Summer Rae
Jimmy King
Member
I don't doubt what you're saying is true - that there are people like that, but I don't think anyone's like that on WrassleGAF.
Rollins, Ambrose and Bryan all look completely different from one another, Sheamus IS an indie wrestler, and Lesnar is wildly popular.
This point is nonsense. If this is that "size" crap again, Cesaro and Luke Harper are both bigger than Reigns and very popular, and hell, Ambrose is taller than Reigns anyway.
Bray is also not an indie worker, he's completely WWE trained, and he's well liked.
Why are Reigns' faults all meant to be free from criticism? Any time he gets a flaw brought up, there's some excuse like "you just want a 5'5 indie darling" or something like that. Like you're not allowed to find Reigns boring, or repetitive.
The same people bitched about Bryan's booking when the top face heading into WM was winning all of his matches. The same people bitched after 3 weeks of Paige winning all of her matches. Wrestling fans are fickle cunts and 90% of the time, the promoter should go with who he wants unless it is a situation like Bryan where you can't ignore it.
FallingEdge
Member
Lambda Pie
Banned
i'd say do it UWFi/shoot-style org style where ANYTHING can finish a match. keep them on the edge of their seat.
speak of edged seats, Aii!
John Lineker vs Alptekin Ozkilic - UFC Fight Night 45
it's kinda like Matto Brown v Erick Silva but with 2 125lb dudes. watch it, FOTY contender.
Macho Madness
Member
So wait, we can only look at things under a microscope when it fits your point?
That's what I thought.
dammit the one thing we disagree on!
Who are these "same people"?
I don't even know what you're responding to with most of that post.
People saw Sheamus and got furious that he was getting spotlight and it was just nothing but bitching that he's workout buddies with the boss and he has The Look (TM) and that he sucks. Then he stops getting attention and spotlight and matches, and people find the time to say "oh he's actually dope as a strongman wrestler". Why the change? Because he was getting less time, thus more time (potentially) for who that fan liked, so now that fan could like the person again. Sheamus didn't change face/heel, Sheamus stopped being a threat in the internal pecking order of WWE cards.
Hell, trace back to Del Rio. Same shit.
The next guy after Reigns who isn't a pre-RAW favorite with the crowd will get the same treatment once the company gets behind them, and when the company stops, they'll like the guy again. Zero-sum nonsense.
In the world of Internet Wrasslin, fans don't cheer the good guys and boo the baddies, they cheer the guys they want to get Good Spots in the company and boo the guys who have those spots or could get the spots first or threaten the spot. It's bizarre.
Macho Madness
Member
I seriously doubt it was the same people.
Lambda Pie
Banned
it's the "underdog effect". the mark idiots would be hanging off Cena's nuts if he was having 15 minute dark matches with Ziggler before PPVs. it's the fuckin worst fanbase on the planet.
it can summed to "we want them to do well but not too well".
Macho Madness
Member
I guess if you plug your ears and not actually listen to what people say then yes, you come to such conclusions.
FallingEdge
Member
That works too. I like the idea that a handful of wrestler moves can finish someone off. Adds more drama and storytelling to a match.
I liked old chikara. Reboot chikara is terrible.
Have I told you guys how much I hate Mario Kart 150cc? Those fucking 3 stars are haunting me in my sleep
Double Dash was a life saver because you could go through all of the cups and unlockables in 2 player mode. Made getting 3 stars on our saves that little bit easier.
Underdog effect, Metallica effect call it what you want. Even Rock and Austin had tons of detractors. Why can't the push Eddie? Why can't the push Noob Saibot? Maybe some of the guys don't even want to carry the burden.
Miz would love to carry it though. Sucks for him they won't allow it.
Sheamus did suck around 2009. He got good wrestling wise around 2011/2012, unfortunately that's when his character and gimmick went to shit. His character and gimmick is still shit, regardless of him being a good wrestler. Same with Del Rio. You're acting like admitting they're good wrestlers means everyone loves them now.
Besides, Sheamus debuted in late summer 2009, and was WWE champion by the end of the year. That's fast for anyone, and he was no Brock Lesnar.
This is WWE's problem, they push guys who might get good eventually, well before that. If they'd pushed Husky Harris like Bray Wyatt has been pushed, I wouldn't have liked him either, because he would have sucked. But he went back to developmental, got better, and came back with a new character. Even then he's still learning ring wise, though he is great at wrestling as his character.
Drew McIntyre was bad when they first started pushing him, but later on, after it had ended, he actually got good, but he was turned into a jobber then and eventually released. Had they not jumped the gun, he might have made it.
Reigns may have the same thing happen to him. They're strapping the rocket to him right now even though he's not very good in the ring, or at talking, when if they did it in a year (and in that year he works a lot of singles programs), he might actually be good and the crowd won't turn on him by his second PPV singles match that consists of 15 minutes of slow punchkick leading to 40 superman punches and a spear.
That's still a vague answer. Who are these people who did this specific thing you're claiming?
Have I told you guys how much I hate Mario Kart 150cc? Those fucking 3 stars are haunting me in my sleep
If it makes you feel better, it doesn't unlock anything!
Yep.
I can't hate on this simply because I feel this way about games,movies,music etc.
But despite the poopey, I like wrestling in a crowd participating environment. Anger more than anything, simply perplexes me. It's not worth getting worked over.
I'm starting to agree. I'm turning more and more into a lurker each day....and some days I don't even come here.
Have I told you guys how much I hate Mario Kart 150cc? Those fucking 3 stars are haunting me in my sleep
150cc is a joke, friend. Mirror Mode is annoying as shit though
Also
Bionic we need to talk