MS: There he is... GET HIM!
MS Grunt: We got him, sir. Banhammer away!
MS: Good... now let's find out what he was up to.
-
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Just got my console (and I assume my account) banned from Live for playing Halo 4.
- Thread starter Skel1ingt0n
- Start date
MS: There he is... GET HIM!
MS Grunt: We got him, sir. Banhammer away!
MS: Good... now let's find out what he was up to.
element
Member
How early? Two weeks early or days early?
EatinOlives
Member
I'm not the one taking it literally.
He's making a pretty wild assumption that streetbroken copies are going to cost devs their jobs, with enough likelihood to justify harsh bannings to protect one's job. I'm saying such a stance is merited only if 1) there has been a consistent history of this happening and 2) streetbroken copies directly causes individual developers to lose their jobs.
No word on 1 so far, so I'm moving on to 2. Dropping a wikpiedia link to "causality" means nothing in the context of this argument because you can attribute literally anything to "causality". If you were so inclined, you can link enough degrees of separation between streetbroken copies and literally anything else and claim there's a causal relationship "because causality", even though that's extremely specious reasoning at best.
"Broken street date -> piracy -> higher bandwidth -> more electricity used -> more coal -> higher contribution to global warming. Therefore, broken street dates -> more global warming because causality"
"Broken street date -> lost jobs -> lower GDP -> higher crime -> home security sales surge. Therefore, broken street date -> home security sales increases because causality"
This is easy. I can just keep going and going. The above, by the way, is utter bullshit, because I need to keep making logical leaps that one WILL cause the other. It's really no different than your or his proposed "Broken street date -> piracy -> lower sales -> lost jobs". Exactly why? How? Superficially this might seem logical, but it isn't because you haven't established that one will lead to the other strong enough to support this "I'm a dev! Ban everyone in every cause who gets their game early because I might lose my job if it ever happens to me!" That principle is only applicable if you've proved beyond doubt that one directly causes the other, except this hasn't been proved at all. All we have is hypothetical links and one giant conclusion jump. I'm not taking it literally, I'm just being logical.
So, again, I remain unconvinced.
How does that work if you're not connected online?
Maybe you should be blaming your terrible employers then for being complete asses then, not Joe Schmoe huh? And how much weight are you or your employers putting on Joe Schmoe anyway? And why? Since when is Joe Schmoe or little Timmy paying your check? No don't say it because I caught it already.. don't think I don't understand how review scores affect bonuses. Instead I'm directly asking you, why are you allowing your employer to take Joe or Timmy's side? Since when are they IGN or Gamespot?
And goddamn, I think I've heard hundreds of people in this forum alone, nevermind real life, shitting on Call of Duty and nobody sells more games than them.
If you don't want the street date broken want people online those are fine enough reasons on their own, but don't making stuff up man, that's not cool at all.
"It's policy. Sorry, we'll fix it, just please don't play online."
That's all I would ever want to hear from a company, and even THAT is far too much.
Stinkles is awesome. What you're saying is like what the eff.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
OP, there's no fucking way you should buy a new console. To hell with that! Ask Microsoft to replace it. If they say no, demand that they replace. If they still say no, never buy an Xbox console again.
If that's true, and I'm not sure it is, I'd assume it'd send your offline activity to MS the net time you connect to Live.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand good night folks!
And he has a decent Klout score.
They have said systems in place, a significant number of bans has been handed out due to 'modified consoles'.
1 - Microsoft updates their firmware/copy detection system
2 - Pirates keep playing dodgy copies only using modified consoles are flagged for later ban
3 - Hackers reverse engineer Microsoft's new method and "plug the hole"
4 -Goto (1)
Usually the bans for modified consoles come in waves to keep the pirates thinking they 'beat the curve' and continue to play online.
That's exactly how it works!
This is correct. In introductory statistical analysis there is a method in checking if correlations are occur from chance and how strong the correlation relationship is; EatinOlives pretty much outlined this because one can hypothesize and suggests if a correlation exists but it doesn't mean it's a strong correlation or if the relationship exists at all.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Man all this over something that won't even matter in 24 hours
I gave you specific examples earlier which you conveniently ignored. I wasn't looking to argue with you, simply inform you. If you'd rather remain ignorant then have at it. Publishers don't attempt to enforce street dates because they get their jollies cracking down on retailers, they do it because it can have a real impact on business, aka money.
element
Member
Facts are so hard to understand. I forget sometimes certain concepts that are just an understanding inside a game developer/publisher aren't that common by the public.
Mizzou Gaming
Member
So many contradictory claims being slung around like facts in this thread especially claims about Microsoft's ability to detect a modded xbox. If I wasn't familiar with Gaf I would have thought this thread was sponsored by N4G.com
Sapphire Dreams
Member
Don't remember exactly but it was definitely more than one week early.
Mizzou Gaming
Member
Dreamwriter
Member
It's the store that is at fault, true, but how are you going to learn that the store did what they knew was wrong? Easy, by banning anyone who plays the game early, and when they call in ask for info from their receipt as proof that they didn't pirate a leaked copy or steal from the manufacturing plant. That info will include exactly which store broke their contract (and often which register did the sale so you can find out which employee did it too), so you can fine the store big bucks and mark them down to never receive launch copies of your game again.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
yeah I think it's pretty telling that I need some sleep when I thought halo 4 came out tomorrow. lol
And as I said I got Mortal Kombat 2 early. A week (not weekend as I said before) early, where we all stayed over one my friend's house for the entire weekend, and played during the week, and my early copy was played until all seven of them got their copies so
to you.
Broken streetdates for videogames were almost never enforced in the 90s. Despite that, somehow sales happened, MK2 was awesome and this happened according to Wikipedia:
The game proved to be an enormous commercial success and even a cultural phenomenon,[47] with the first-week over $50 million sales for cartridge consoles dwarfing even the initial box office of movie blockbusters such as True Lies, The Mask and The Lion King.[48] On the day of the game's release, dubbed "Mortal Friday", an unprecented number of more than 2.5 million copies were shipped to be distributed, with the best opening-week sales in video game history at this point.[49]
So nanny nanny poo poo to you
Edit: Thought I should throw in, Stinkles did good here. Totally super awesome of him.
EatinOlives
Member
So in other words, you had no desire to actually have a conversation, you just wanted to drop some post and not want anyone to call you out on it. Nothing in your post educates anyone, you can't just call it educational and magically expect people to lap it up like fact, which is funny considering that it isn't.
You could've told me that before I wasted any time on you. I'm going to take your post as a concession, seeing as it lacks any other meaning.
That's one way to look at it. Personally I wouldn't want to use the people who are willing to shell out their money for my product as pawns to inconvenience for my own benefit. That ultimately seems bad for business. It was good to see that Stinkles made it clear that they're not asking anyone to hand over info on who they purchased anything from.
travisbickle
Member
So they deleted his subscription to a paid network and crippled his hardware because they believed the game was either copied or stolen!! It wasn't!!
And people are defending this?
Microsoft Justice: found guilty and prosecuted, until proven otherwise.
And people are defending this?
Microsoft Justice: found guilty and prosecuted, until proven otherwise.
not_so_special
Banned
i cant understand how some people can defend this.
The title ID of every game you play, along with a timestamp, is stored in a flash chip on the 360 motherboard. The file is uploaded every time you log into Live.
element
Member
Yes, because piracy was so big in the 90's. I mean dialing up to your local BBS and downloading it via your 28.8 modem. Totally the same as games today.
and you can prove this how? the guy didn't get a receipt.
Both Vilam and myself have attempted to provide insight from the inside of development. (Him much better than myself) There are many aspects of game developer that most people know little about or really isn't visible by the public. There are countless reasons for a game to perform below expectations and everything is taken into consideration. You think that if a game was leaked to the internet early and performs below expectations that leak wouldn't be listed as one of the possibilities for the low sales? I don't think either of us are attempting to make it a single cause, but leaks do have ramifications on the bottom line.
Dreamwriter
Member
Having street dates broken can be a lot worse for your business than inconveniencing 5 or 10 people for a few days. If it becomes known to retailers that you really mean that contract they signed, and that you ALWAYS find out when they break the date, then it quickly shouldn't become a problem.
Let them complain to the state about this to help them after the store doesn't buy them a new Xbox and replace their purchases.
"Well, we're going to need a receipt to add to the court file. Can you give us it so we can make a copy?"
"...."
"Well okay, we can just get a warrant and get the purchase out of their transaction records, right?"
"...."
travisbickle
Member
So you think Microsoft can go above and beyond the normal protocol of finding out if the product is stolen before banning someone?
The product was not stolen or copied.
Dreamwriter
Member
Not to mention the fact that the cases are sealed with large, bright stickers on them saying not to open until XX/XX/XXXX. There's no way someone would unknowingly sell an early copy of Halo 4 unless the person couldn't read. Which is why I don't have a problem inconveniencing a small number of customers to find out which retail stores broke their contracts.
Well I sorta defend this. Not liking it though.
But MS has strict contracts with retailers that it shall not be sold before a certain date. From their perspective any person having an early copy was able to get it by breaking the contracts they have. MS doesn't want to punish the end user though, that's why if you have a receipt you'll get unbanned, and MS likely goes after the retailer...
phosphor112
Banned
And why do people hate Sony and Nintendo so much?
Yeah, everyone should hate Microsoft because one guy managed to get a shady pre-release copy of a game and got banned for trying to play it on Live. And then the franchise director of the game himself promised to unban him personally within moments of the poster complaining on NeoGAF.
matty2Dfraud
Banned
my friend got banned for using the word "butthole" in his bio. this is no surprise.
element
Member
Well we know it wasn't copied, but how can anyone verify that it wasn't stolen? I mean really? Currently there is no legit way to buy it (normal stores aren't selling it). The guy doesn't have a receipt to prove that he bought it.
I remember seeing these for Mass Effect, Gears, and Crackdown.
polyh3dron
Banned
It's a good thing that every single person this has happened to happens to be a GAF member and knows to make a thread on GAF about it and knows that Stinkles works for 343 so they can reach out to him personally to get the situation rectified.
Dreamwriter
Member
Oh come on, you don't think people will call Microsoft when this happens? Then MS will just ask for info from their receipt and unban their account (and then levy punishments on the store).
There wouldn't really be a reliable way to tell what date you were doing stuff offline. If there is no connection to LIVE and the console is powered off completely the internal clock resets to November 2005.
matty2Dfraud
Banned
Well we know it wasn't copied, but how can anyone verify that it wasn't stolen? I mean really? Currently there is no legit way to buy it (normal stores aren't selling it). The guy doesn't have a receipt to prove that he bought it.
I remember seeing these for Mass Effect, Gears, and Crackdown.
It doesn't say to not play before that date. And why should a consumer be punished even if the business sold it early? Stolen or not... whole argument is ridiculous.
Could you move the internal xbox clock to street date?
DAREALGUMMY
Member
I'd chalk this up to bad decisions everywhere. The store breaking the street date, the OP for playing it when MS apparently warned people not to play it and MS breaking out the Banhammer so quickly.
I can see why MS would be paranoid about it though. When a game is attained before a street date, piracy is most likely the reason for it. It sucks for people who get "lucky" and buy a legit copy to enjoy before the release date.
I can see why MS would be paranoid about it though. When a game is attained before a street date, piracy is most likely the reason for it. It sucks for people who get "lucky" and buy a legit copy to enjoy before the release date.
phosphor112
Banned
Why does it even happen in the first place? If they don't want people online don't turn the fucking online on. It's not the consumers problem.
Microsoft bans people just because they fucking can.
element
Member
The store didn't sell it to him, as there is no proof of that transaction.
This will only become more common with connected software.
As other have said. The game shouldn't have been on display for someone to ask to buy it, and the store shouldn't be attempting to sell it to unknowing consumers. In the event someone has a legit copy (which I find rare with all the street date prevention methods stores have these days), they can file a support issue and get it resolved.
Those labels are for retailers to remove. Nobody should have the game to play it at all.
DAREALGUMMY
Member
I'm pretty sure reviewers and such need the online to be on to properly review games. Especially with a popular online franchise like Halo.