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[alphaNoid]

Wow. Just wow. MS you are a joke.

You realize why they do it though right? For years MS has been fighting off the moding community and people playing burned/leaked copies of games like Halo or Gears. Before MS caught onto modded DVD firmware it was easiest to 'flag' people most likely suspect by who was playing games before they released to retail. Leaked copies of games go online often weeks before retail release. MS just sits back and waits for the hordes of 'hackers' to pop in their copy and sign into Live.. then Bam! Flagged for a ban.

I even think MS went as far as to update the Live ToS a few years ago to say they can terminate consoles/gamertags if they are suspect of violating the ToS, which I think indicates not playing games before release dates. I'll have to see if I can dig it up..

But if the ToS clearly states it, and the OP agreed to the ToS (which he did).. MS has every right to act how they choose. They do it thin out the hackers and modded consoles connected to Live. They do not do it to be assholes and not let people play games early.

edit. In all my years I have never once heard of a console or gamertag being unbanned so the OP was probably SOL from the get go, regardless of GAF connections.

 

[Rubius]

Really? Even if you can prove without doubt that it was a legitimate copy and you did nothing wrong?

Man that is pathetic. But at the same time I see the OP went and bought another. Why?



Wow. Just wow. MS you are a joke.

Pretty much any companies is like that. Steam have the same type of stuff, and they did lock people out if they find your transactions suspicious.
Pretty sure Sony have the same type of thing. Same for Apple. Hell in the Terms of Itunes, it says that you cant use Itunes to operate a Nuclear Facility or launch Missiles. Its not really a new thing

 

[ShinobiFist]

Really? Even if you can prove without doubt that it was a legitimate copy and you did nothing wrong?

Man that is pathetic. But at the same time I see the OP went and bought another. Why?



Wow. Just wow. MS you are a joke.

Majority of electronic companies could do this. Clueless consumers are the ones who let this happen. And bravo to companies for making the TOS, longer than your four years of college studies. They know not everyone is going to read that mess. Props for hustling the consumers.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Did you really not contact Microsoft at all?

You just went out and bought a new console? I can't believe that. Why would you not at least try customer service 1st?

It sucks that they did this to you, but to just go out and buy another console without trying to get your console unlocked makes you as part of the problem as them.

 

[mattchuuu]

Isn't there some sort of legal shit that one could do as this is all kinda of fucked up, and the fact that Microsoft could get away with it is a joke. There has to be something!

There is. He can walk away and never give them any more money. He can also share his story and get sympathizers to give less money as well. If this happened to me and I was honest, I would simply interpret this as Microsoft closing the door on my consumer relationship with them, and I would walk away and leave a burning trail of shit like the OP is doing.

Edit: maybe Microsoft encourages this response from the OP... he's the head on a pike with a big sign that says "gamer beware." The louder he is, the more we get the message not to play games before the release date. Not sure what good it does them... anyone with a leaked copy doesn't need Xbox Live to distribute it...

 

[Lulubop]

How nice of you to still support MS.

 

[JaseC]

Did you really not contact Microsoft at all?

You just went out and bought a new console? I can't believe that. Why would you not at least try customer service 1st?

It sucks that they did this to you, but to just go out and buy another console without trying to get your console unlocked makes you as part of the problem as them.

He didn't just go out and buy a console: Frankie said he'd "take care of it" but has since (a month ago now) not contacted the OP whatsoever. Even if the OP's issue hasn't yet been actioned by a CSR or the attempt to have the account and/or console unbanned was unsuccessful, not keeping the OP in the loop is poor form.

 

[Callo Merlose]

That updated OP just pisses me off. Glad I took the wait-and-see approach on Halo 4. Looks like I'll only ever be playing as a guest if at all. :|

 

[Cheerilee]

He bought a game before the release date. He didnt get a receipt. The reseller broke his contract with Microsoft and Microsoft have the right to do it. Its in the Terms of Service. I do agree that its bad, and that he should get its stuff back, but Microsoft is in his rights.

The OP could probably sue the store he bought the game from and try to get a free Xbox and game out of them, as well as the cash value he places on his gamertag, or maybe MS might be more motivated to cut the OP some slack if he narcs on which store it was that tried to do something nice for him, but the OP's probably not going to do either of those things because he's probably not a fucking asshole.

 

[Rentahamster]

edit. In all my years I have never once heard of a console or gamertag being unbanned so the OP was probably SOL from the get go, regardless of GAF connections.

My brother got unfairly banned last year, and it was rescinded.

Ah, so that's what happened.

I've been letting my brother use my Xbox console this past year and he told me that the console (but not his XBL account) had gotten banned a couple weeks ago. Despite his claims of innocence I didn't believe him since MS doesn't do these console bans lightly. I was thiiis close to making a thread about it, asking if anyone else has been banned unfairly recently.


So, I guess he really was innocent after all. Thanks MS, for making me look like an asshole

 

[dallow_bg]

edit. In all my years I have never once heard of a console or gamertag being unbanned so the OP was probably SOL from the get go, regardless of GAF connections.

Huh? I hear of them being unbanned all the time when it catches a little media attention.

 

[alphaNoid]

Just went back and read the OP and this stuck out

Also, I don't have a receipt. Bought it from a local game shop; they said they'd "ring it out" on launch day. Obviously a bit shady- but far from fucking stealing.

Heres the problem, prove it. The underlined is a clear violation of the ToS and Live Code of Conduct I believe. To top it off the OP has absolutely no proof, no receipt he ever paid for the copy so he is giving MS nothing to go with but his story. Contacting MS or having Frankie forward your info to MS means nothing if you can't prove to MS you bought the copy and show a receipt. Showing a picture on GAF from 10/26 that you 'have' the game still does nothing to prove you own it legally. If anything it only further implies that you have an otherwise illegal copy in your possession.. unless of course you can prove otherwise, which you cannot. The OP admitted in plain text to an off the books purchase of the game, and if MS saw this thread absolutely wouldn't do a thing to reverse the ban due to that admittance.

Thats a wrap.

Huh? I hear of them being unbanned all the time when it catches a little media attention.

My brother got unfairly banned last year, and it was rescinded.

Glad to hear, thanks for input and clearing things up.

 

[Takao]

I can't believe you bought another 360 after this OP ... wow.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Just went back and read the OP and this stuck out



Heres the problem, prove it. The underlined is a clear violation of the ToS and Live Code of Conduct I believe. To top it off the OP has absolutely no proof, no receipt he ever paid for the copy so he is giving MS nothing to go with but his story. Contacting MS or having Frankie forward your info to MS means nothing if you can't prove to MS you bought the copy and show a receipt. Showing a picture on GAF from 10/26 that you 'have' the game still does nothing to prove you own it legally. If anything it only further implies that you have an otherwise illegal copy in your possession.. unless of course you can prove otherwise, which you cannot. If the OP admitted in plain text to an off the books purchase of the game, and if MS saw this thread absolutely wouldn't do a thing to reverse the ban due to that admittance.

Thats a wrap.





Glad to hear, thanks for input and clearing things up.

lol so treat your customers like criminals until they can prove to you otherwise? Great service.

If MS is so hell bent on keeping people offline before launch day, how about shutting down the servers until the game launches, or having some way to verify that only test/review copies can go online? No just banning a loyal customer and screwing him over is a much easier (and lazier) solution.

 

[lsslave]

So the consensus is MS support sucks? This doesn't surprise me in the least... but I still think Sony's is worse. You'd think with all the fanboys backing them the big 3 would treat us better..

 

[alphaNoid]

lol so treat your customers like criminals until they can prove to you otherwise? Great service.

No, hold your customers accountable for their actions and the Terms of Use they agree to. Look if the OPs story holds up it sucks, don't get me wrong. But he admits to an off the books purchase of the game, even admits that it was 'shady'. Provides a story, but no actual proof he legally purchased the game to either GAF nor MS. What is MS supposed to do here? The OP isn't just some guy who was sold the game early and can prove it. He was a guy who knowingly bought it off the books early in a shady transaction. That changes everything if you ask me. :/

He wasn't the only one ... Terms of Use how do they work?

http://kotaku.com/5952008/play-halo-4-early-get-banned-from-xbox-live-forever

 

[lsslave]

No, hold your customers accountable for their actions and the Terms of Use they agree to. Look if the OPs story holds up it sucks, don't get me wrong. But he admits to an off the books purchase of the game, even admits that it was 'shady'.

He wasn't the only one ... Terms of Use how do they work?

http://kotaku.com/5952008/play-halo-4-early-get-banned-from-xbox-live-forever

He bought it from a store that was willing to make that sale. Maybe if devs stopped giving pre-order DLC to shithole Gamestop independent stores wouldn't try to make loyal fans in a shitty way?

Seriously, you can't defend Microsoft in this, this isn't a pirated copy it is a legit version that is all that matters here.

 

[Cheerilee]

Just went back and read the OP and this stuck out



Heres the problem, prove it. The underlined is a clear violation of the ToS and Live Code of Conduct I believe. To top it off the OP has absolutely no proof, no receipt he ever paid for the copy so he is giving MS nothing to go with but his story. Contacting MS or having Frankie forward your info to MS means nothing if you can't prove to MS you bought the copy and show a receipt. Showing a picture on GAF from 10/26 that you 'have' the game still does nothing to prove you own it legally. If anything it only further proves that you have an otherwise illegal copy in your possession.. unless of course you can prove otherwise, which you cannot.

Thats a wrap.

Showing his receipt would rat out the store that sold it to him.

People said it was wrong to force somebody to rat out a store for breaking a street date and selling them a game a day early.

Stinkles said that he would take care of it, and that nobody was being asked to rat out anybody.


Do you think that the OP shoplifts videogames from the back rooms of stores, behind security seal tape? And that MS bans people who play the game online early because they're cracking down on that sort of burglar? They claim it's to prevent people who play leaked betas and pirate versions. A picture of a retail copy of the game should be sufficient.

 

[polyh3dron]

And wow, there are still people defending MS in here.

And Alpha we are all aware that the Terms of Use basically allow MS to do whatever the fuck they want to our consoles, that doesn't make it right. So please stop throwing said terms at us.

 

[lsslave]

And wow, there are still people defending MS in here.

People think they owe allegiance to a company for some reason.

I don't shop at Gamestop for a reason, I don't buy EA and Activision titles for a reason, and my life is fine for it. Sony is on the verge of losing a customer due to their shitty customer support.

The company is not your friend, they provide something you need but you don't owe them, without you they are nothing.

 

[alphaNoid]

He bought it from a store that was willing to make that sale. Maybe if devs stopped giving pre-order DLC to shithole Gamestop independent stores wouldn't try to make loyal fans in a shitty way?

Seriously, you can't defend Microsoft in this, this isn't a pirated copy it is a legit version that is all that matters here.

I understand and I"m not defending MS here.. I just have no proof that the OP didn't steal the game. Do you? This isn't a cut and dry case, for all we know the OP could have pulled this from a box early and cooked up some wild story here on GAF in a desperate attempt to get his gamertag back. I hate to bring that up, but its the elephant in the room. How can I assume anything we're being told is true when there is 0 proof behind the story? I want to believe the OP, I'm just saying that MS has nothing to go on here. Sure the copy looks like a retail copy...

Neat. But in dispute the OP has to prove it was legally purchased by a store. Which he cannot.

So I have to side with MS based on that.. I mean, right? Its really unfortunate don't get me wrong.. I dont want to come off like some insensitive prick I'm just calling as I see it. Wheres the proof? If theres none for GAF, how in the world can MS do anything about it. How is MS supposed to know if this is not a stolen copy?

And wow, there are still people defending MS in here.

And Alpha we are all aware that the Terms of Use basically allow MS to do whatever the fuck they want to our consoles, that doesn't make it right. So please stop throwing said terms at us.

I know, its just I feel bad for the OP in some regards but in some I don't. He willingly bought it without going through the register, and knew it. He knew it was shady then, shady now and got banned. Its unfortunate, but you can't expect MS to bend the rules every time someone appears to be collateral damage, especially when they have zero proof to back up their story.

 

[Ken]

Poor OP.

 

[polyh3dron]

My brother got unfairly banned last year, and it was rescinded.

Yeah I remember in an old thread a few years back regarding this subject that Faceless Master and Arne were both ganging up on me saying that MS would never do an unjust banning, and Faceless said and I quote "they err on the side of caution". They both basically called me an idiot for believing that there was even the possibility of unjust bans happening.

 

[polyh3dron]

I understand and I"m not defending MS here.. I just have no proof that the OP didn't steal the game. Do you? This isn't a cut and dry case, for all we know the OP could have pull this from a box early and cooked up some wild story here on GAF in a desperate attempt to get his gamertag back. I hate to bring that up, but its the elephant in the room. How can I assume anything we're being told is true when there is 0 proof behind the story? I want to believe the OP, I'm just saying that MS has nothing to go no here. Sure the copy looks like a retail copy...

Neat. No the OP has to prove he was legally purchased by a store. Which he cannot.

So I have to side with MS based on that.. I mean, right? Its really unfortunate don't get me wrong.. I dont want to come off like some insensitive prick I'm just calling as I see it. Wheres the proof? If theres none for GAF, how in the world can MS do anything about it. How is MS supposed to know if this is not a stolen copy?

How is MS ever supposed to know that anyone is playing with a stolen copy? It shouldn't fucking matter. If you are playing with a genuine Xbox disc, they shouldn't be banning you. Point blank. The burden isn't on the OP to produce a receipt, the only burden there should be on the OP is to show that it was a genuine game disc and he has done so.

 

[mrklaw]

lol so treat your customers like criminals until they can prove to you otherwise? Great service.

If MS is so hell bent on keeping people offline before launch day, how about shutting down the servers until the game launches, or having some way to verify that only test/review copies can go online? No just banning a loyal customer and screwing him over is a much easier (and lazier) solution.

They have a whitelist for reviewers etc, so surely they could just block everyone else rather than banning?

You can't just ban if you have the retail game - you can't assume you obtained it illegally, isn't it much more likely that a store simply broke the street date?

 

[lsslave]

I understand and I"m not defending MS here.. I just have no proof that the OP didn't steal the game. Do you? This isn't a cut and dry case, for all we know the OP could have pull this from a box early and cooked up some wild story here on GAF in a desperate attempt to get his gamertag back. I hate to bring that up, but its the elephant in the room. How can I assume anything we're being told is true when there is 0 proof behind the story? I want to believe the OP, I'm just saying that MS has nothing to go no here. Sure the copy looks like a retail copy...

Neat. No the OP has to prove he was legally purchased by a store. Which he cannot.

So I have to side with MS based on that.. I mean, right? Its really unfortunate don't get me wrong.. I dont want to come off like some insensitive prick I'm just calling as I see it. Wheres the proof? If theres none for GAF, how in the world can MS do anything about it. How is MS supposed to know if this is not a stolen copy?

They banned him believing it was a pirated copy not a stolen copy, which in itself is bullshit.

Games and shit leak all the time, ALL-THE-TIME. If you ship a game early it will (WILL! At least one place will break street date) be sold early. Banning for that is bullshit. The fact remains, he showed the copy he doesn't deserve the ban. Defending a multi million dollar company that you are a sheep to is not worth it here.

 

[Trey]

Gonna be a fun digital only future, I can see.

 

[mattchuuu]

I don't see how a receipt would do any good anyway. His story was that the receipt wouldn't be available until launch day because that's when the transaction would officially happen in the store's books. If he corroborated his story with a post of his receipt dated for launch day, who's to say its his, or that he didn't just buy a second copy, took a photo of the receipt, and returned the game again?

He put himself into a hole that is impossible to climb out of. Even if this got a lot of attention, Microsoft shouldn't be expected to let him go because they would appear weak and would infuriate those who don't receive the same mercy.

Edit: I should state here though that I am not in favor of permanently banning systems for playing the game early. I don't understand why they are that severe.

 

[Toski]

How is MS ever supposed to know that anyone is playing with a stolen copy? It shouldn't fucking matter. If you are playing with a genuine Xbox disc, they shouldn't be banning you. Point blank. The burden isn't on the OP to produce a receipt, the only burden there should be on the OP is to show that it was a genuine game disc and he has done so.

I think the point is that Microsoft has no real reason to overturn their decision.

 

[Feature]

You did exactly was MS wants. Buy another console... if this isn't a great example of a corporate slave I don't know what is.

 

[alphaNoid]

How is MS ever supposed to know that anyone is playing with a stolen copy? It shouldn't fucking matter. If you are playing with a genuine Xbox disc, they shouldn't be banning you. Point blank. The burden isn't on the OP to produce a receipt, the only burden there should be on the OP is to show that it was a genuine game disc and he has done so.

Actually the burden is on the OP to produce a receipt. Thats how contracts work. We all agree to the GAF ToS and are held accountable for following its rules as well. Wrongfully banned? ... provide some proof to a mod so they can make a decision on the matter.

Neither GAF or Xbox Live are rights we inherit as humans. They are both luxuries, and we are bound legally to the contracts we adhere to. The OP is not entitled to access to Live and/or his Gamertag, he is allowed access so long as MS allows it. When you click Accept on that Terms of Use you forfeit your opinion on the matter.

Thats how these things work.

Defending a multi million dollar company that you are a sheep to is not worth it here.

Huh? I"m not attacking you, why lash out with name calling? I'm not even going out of my way to defense MS. Change the name Microsoft to any other company and it applies the same.

 

[Hanmik]

Actually the burden is on the OP to produce a receipt. Thats how contracts work. We all agree to the GAF ToS and are held accountable for following its rules as well. Wrongfully banned? ... provide some proof to a mod so they can make a decision on the matter.

Neither GAF or Xbox Live are rights we inherit as humans. They are both luxuries, and we are bound legally to the contracts we adhere to. The OP is not entitled to access to Live and/or his Gamertag, he is allowed access so long as MS allows it. When you click Accept on that Terms of Use you forfeit your opinion on the matter.

Thats how these things work.

please show me what you mean..? What contract..? we are talking about a reciept for athing he bought..? there is no contract..?

 

[Rentahamster]

Yeah I remember in an old thread a few years back regarding this subject that Faceless Master and Arne were both ganging up on me saying that MS would never do an unjust banning, and Faceless said and I quote "they err on the side of caution". They both basically called me an idiot for believing that there was even the possibility of unjust bans happening.

(from the same thread I linked)

wow. i take back everything i said for all those years about MS being very careful and erring on the side of caution in their console bans!

where is my plate of crow?

Hehe

 

[LowParry]

Whyyyyyy OP. Whyyyyyy.

 

[Cheerilee]

please show me what you mean..? What contract..? we are talking about a reciept for athing he bought..? there is no contract..?

He means the not-legally-binding EULA that nobody ever reads when they pay for Xbox Live. They just assume that the company that wrote it would never use it against them. It apparently says that you can be banned for playing a game early.

It also apparently says that you can be banned for not showing a receipt, because nobody ever keeps their receipts, and if you don't have a receipt to show then they can accuse you of shoplifting and you can't prove that you didn't shoplift (innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply if you sign away your rights). Even though shoplifting has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. But it's a convenient way to ban anyone for any reason.

People are stuck on the receipt because the OP is deliberately holding it back, knowing that it contains damaging info. And revealing it wouldn't help anything, because even if he had a receipt, he would still be banned for playing the game early.

 

[Dunan]

Question from someone who's never owned a 360: what happens to Skellington's console if someone else tries to go online with it, using a new gamertag?

Surely the console itself isn't "bricked" in that no one can ever go online with it?

 

[lexi]

OP, did you make contact with anyone other than Stinkles? I have a friend who works for Xbox Live support, it's possible she may be able to help you out, or at least give you some sort of update and not leave you high and dry.

 

[Hanmik]

He means the not-legally-binding EULA that nobody ever reads when they pay for Xbox Live. They just assume that the company that wrote it would never use it against them. It apparently says that you can be banned for playing a game early.

It also apparently says that you can be banned for not showing a receipt, because nobody ever keeps their receipts, and if you don't have a receipt to show then they can accuse you of shoplifting and you can't prove that you didn't shoplift (innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply if you sign away your rights). Even though shoplifting has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. But it's a convenient way to ban anyone for any reason.

People are stuck on the receipt because the OP is deliberately holding it back, knowing that it contains damaging info. And revealing it wouldn't help anything, because even if he had a receipt, he would still be banned for playing the game early.

ok I just read the EULA (again).. http://www.xbox.com/en-WW/legal/livetou

where does it state that you can´t play games before a certain date..? (or something along those lines).. I really have a poblem finding anything in the EULA that describes the OP´s problem (let alone something about reciepts)

 

[Hypron]

Question from someone who's never owned a 360: what happens to Skellington's console if someone else tries to go online with it, using a new gamertag?

Surely the console itself isn't "bricked" in that no one can ever go online with it?

It is bricked. The console AND the gamertag were both banned, he can no longer go online with either one.

 

[Dunan]

It is bricked. The console AND the gamertag were both banned, he can no longer go online with either one.

That's an outrage. Banning a person is bad enough, but effectively destroying the residual value of a piece of electronics is another thing entirely. And how can someone safely buy a used 360 if such a thing is possible?

Wow. That really is nuts.

 

[lexi]

ok I just read the EULA (again).. http://www.xbox.com/en-WW/legal/livetou

where does it state that you can´t play games before a certain date..? (or something along those lines).. I really have a poblem finding anything in the EULA that describes the OP´s problem (let alone something about reciepts)

I believe it falls under the 'we can do whatever the fuck we want cause we're a multibillion dollar company' clause.

 

[SmokyDave]

I'll never understand why people buy another console in situations like this.

 

[Hanmik]

I'll never understand why people buy another console in situations like this.

I do.. I just don´t understand they buy the same kind of console again..

 

[SmokyDave]

I do.. I just don´t understand they buy the same kind of console again..

Well, yeah.

"Man, these guys sure did fuck me over. Guess I'd better chuck 'em a couple more hundred".

Daft.

 

[Vorg]

Actually the burden is on the OP to produce a receipt. Thats how contracts work. We all agree to the GAF ToS and are held accountable for following its rules as well. Wrongfully banned? ... provide some proof to a mod so they can make a decision on the matter.

Neither GAF or Xbox Live are rights we inherit as humans. They are both luxuries, and we are bound legally to the contracts we adhere to. The OP is not entitled to access to Live and/or his Gamertag, he is allowed access so long as MS allows it. When you click Accept on that Terms of Use you forfeit your opinion on the matter.

Thats how these things work.

Seriously? This situation is as anti-consumer as it gets, and I honestly don't see why anyone would take the multi billion dollar corporation's side on this one.

I'll never understand why people buy another console in situations like this.

Well, there's all those games and accessories you've already bought. Also, your friends may all have that console.

 

[Yagharek]

I understand and I"m not defending MS here.. I just have no proof that the OP didn't steal the game. Do you? This isn't a cut and dry case, for all we know the OP could have pulled this from a box early and cooked up some wild story here on GAF in a desperate attempt to get his gamertag back. I hate to bring that up, but its the elephant in the room. How can I assume anything we're being told is true when there is 0 proof behind the story? I want to believe the OP, I'm just saying that MS has nothing to go on here. Sure the copy looks like a retail copy...

Neat. But in dispute the OP has to prove it was legally purchased by a store. Which he cannot.

So I have to side with MS based on that.. I mean, right? Its really unfortunate don't get me wrong.. I dont want to come off like some insensitive prick I'm just calling as I see it. Wheres the proof? If theres none for GAF, how in the world can MS do anything about it. How is MS supposed to know if this is not a stolen copy?



I know, its just I feel bad for the OP in some regards but in some I don't. He willingly bought it without going through the register, and knew it. He knew it was shady then, shady now and got banned. Its unfortunate, but you can't expect MS to bend the rules every time someone appears to be collateral damage, especially when they have zero proof to back up their story.

You realise that you are effectively saying "guilty til proven innocent" don't you?

 

[Rentahamster]

It is bricked. The console AND the gamertag were both banned, he can no longer go online with either one.

It's not "bricked". It still functions. It just can't go online anymore.

I believe it falls under the 'we can do whatever the fuck we want cause we're a multibillion dollar company' clause.

I think it's more like "...cause your desire to play our games is stronger than our desire to give a shit about your customer service"

 

[Gustav]

And he bought a new one...

 

[Soodanim]

So, after many pages in a thread about being wronged by Microsoft and wanting said wrongs to be made right (including advice and offers of help), OP can't live without Halo for a few weeks and just buys a brand new console?

It's your money, but if you're legit it would likely have been sorted.

 

[urfe]

Wow.

While I thought the initial banning was harsh (but could be justified if lifted), this is a bit ridiculous. I don't own any Microsoft console, and this is making me feel more comfortable with that decision.