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K-Pop Fanboy/Fangirl |OT4| Most Lurkers on GAF

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Pendulum

Member
milkham said:
image.php

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Edit: New page, so here's some pics
with bonus Kwanghee
in preparation for the
proper
MV release.

tumblr_mmh4ua8exT1qkljdfo1_500.jpg

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Also, was this info re: the teaser pics revealed? Who got bingo?

Lips - Sungah
Ear - Hyemi
Abs - Eunji
Neck - Minha
Thighs - Kyungri
Hips - Sera
Lower Legs - Hyuna
Back - Lee Sem
Clavicle - Erin
 
Expecting some answer like this. She was immediately dismissed "oh, it's one of them"...
What's the "creepiness" about showing that phrase? Because it shows her believes? Maybe that paragraph stroke something in her, who knows?

Well, this would be another topic.

To me religion is like some fantasies (mentioning you want to kidnap someone and lock them in a dungeon on a message board) or say posting a photo of a turd you just did on twitter. Its better if it was kept private.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I've also seen religion motivate people to improve their lives and become better people in the process. It goes both ways, Dice.
There are very damaging underlying psychological and sociological dynamics involved. Everything good that can be found in religion can be found without it without its poisonous effects.

Seungyeon probably went too far with bible thumping but it is her twitter and you could always unfollow if you don't like what she says.
Hey man, I don't hate her for it, I was just saying he would understand where anti-religion people are coming from. Personally, I know how fucked up it is and it is sad to see that she is wrapped up in that.

Expecting some answer like this. She was immediately dismissed "oh, it's one of them"...
What's the "creepiness" about showing that phrase? Because it shows her believes? Maybe that paragraph stroke something in her, who knows?
I personally wouldn't call it creepy, but then it is familiar to me. The kind of endorsement for blind, unquestioning faith in God to grant what one asks for in prayer that she is making has major problems in it. This kind of trust in prayer has an inherent denial of reality to it, it's a prime manifestation of confirmation bias and illusory correlation, which does spill over into everything in life. "Simulacrum" is a handy reference word to study the phenomenon. It also inevitably leads to cognitive dissonance, which is often resolved through a lot of doubt/blame/shame being internalized to explain why the prayers were unanswered.

These things also don't come from nowhere, there are different concepts that different circles of Christianity focus on. I am very familiar with this kind and know that it is quite popular in Korea. I know the faults of it and the influences it puts on a person. Beyond just the personal sides, training the mind to work in this way causes many bad things in society, which are very thoroughly laid out and explained in this book.

I'm not offended by it, I just think that those who see such things only as a person taking a simple encouragement from a text are missing 95% of the picture. I was deeply involved in ministry for 15 years, a very academic type, too. Lots and lots of study and practice in theology/philosophy for teaching and the psychology/sociology for counseling and leadership. I am extremely familiar with the inner workings of all the forms it takes.
 

ryan-ts

Member
There are very damaging underlying psychological and sociological dynamics involved. Everything good that can be found in religion can be found without it without its poisonous effects.

I think you draw too much from your own experience. Plenty of religious people go through life just fine with no poisonous effects as you call them. There are people I know who needed some sort God or life after death, or else they wouldn't be making an effort while they're still alive. Counselling, interventions, support groups just didn't work for them and they needed to believe in something else. I really do think some are better off with religion in their life.
 

giri

Member
I think you draw too much from your own experience. Plenty of religious people go through life just fine with no poisonous effects as you call them. There are people I know who needed some sort God or life after death, or else they wouldn't be making an effort while they're still alive. Counselling, interventions, support groups just didn't work for them and they needed to believe in something else. I really do think some are better off with religion in their life.
Dice biased on religion? Well I never!
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I think you draw too much from your own experience. Plenty of religious people go through life just fine with no poisonous effects as you call them. There are people I know who needed some sort God or life after death, or else they wouldn't be making an effort while they're still alive. Counselling, interventions, support groups just didn't work for them and they needed to believe in something else. I really do think some are better off with religion in their life.
My personal experience with thousands of Christians across dozens of sects and ministry formats? Sorry, I am too far gone on this issue. I think the effects are not recognized by many, but definitely present. The simple fact of "needing" it as you mention is a patchwork job over a failure in philosophy. It also ignores the negative purpose that it serves as an opiate. Many people find themselves very dissatisfied and even trapped in terrible systems of society but escape this by hopeful belief in the afterlife. It may be true that it services their malcontent in some fashion, but it does so at the expense of demotivating them from actually changing those circumstances of society for the better. The notion of eternal justice mutes the call for present justice, or even patient effort to secure a greater justice that only future generations will see. It is extremely accurate to call it an opiate of the culture, a mild cognitive enslavement to pacify concerns of all the treacherous exploitations of the people.
 

ryan-ts

Member
Alright Dice, you're entitled to your own opinion.

Anyway, I've been watching Heroes as my main Korean show these days, it's a pretty good variety show from a couple years ago (has a few idols too for those who are interested). KBS World has also uploaded the 2nd episode of Invincible Youth in stunning 480p.

iVhOQv29jz9nx.gif
 

Pendulum

Member
Heroes is great.
It tapers off towards the end a bit as they run out of things to do with the rankings but I enjoyed watching it through.

tumblr_m5u2y3s39g1r2pubto2_250.gif
 
I see what Dice is talking about. Many people place their lives in the hands of their religious beliefs and they're absolutely free to do that, but(here's where I disagree with Dice) I don't think religion should be condemned for not letting these people see the big picture. That kind of faith in religion is ingrained in someone's mind at the early stages of life and their brain has been trained to keep these ideals always at the back where their thought process is going to encounter and go through steps to rationalize everything. These people got there because some external force(family, friends, whatever) brought them there and essentially brainwashed them with these ideas.

I was watching Angels and Demons earlier this weekend and something that Langdon/Dan Brown said really struck me:

“Whether or not you believe in God, you must believe this: when we as a species abandon our trust in a power greater than us, we abandon our sense of accountability. Faiths… all faiths… are admonitions that there is something we cannot understand, something to which we are accountable. With faith we are accountable to each other, to ourselves, and to a higher truth. Religion is flawed, but only because man is flawed. The church consists of a brotherhood of imperfect, simple souls wanting only to be a voice of compassion in a world spinning out of control.”

TBH, I find radical atheists more offensive than bible thumpers as they merely echo what they believe instead of shoving it up your ass like it's the absolute truth that everyone should believe in.
 

giri

Member
I'm not religious but some times I'm baffled with the anti-religion brigade.

Most anti-religion people are just as bad as the evangelist over the top pro christians they're against.

And usually just as preachy and desperate to force their opinion down your throat.

This page included.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
These people got there because some external force(family, friends, whatever) brought them there and essentially brainwashed them with these ideas.
I agree with this, but it is hard to put all the blame for "spoiling it" on them as free individuals when you see their holy book specifically instructs them to "disciple" in this manner all throughout. To whatever extent someone is moderate, they are ignoring many of the scriptures they say they believe in, so I would say it is a problem with the religion itself. If you think that is not true because everyone ignores some passages and there is thus no solid form to the thing, and it could be anything people choose it to be, then it is reduced to nothing but a title you place on a social movement and we have ceased talking about religion and are discussing a vague notion of spirituality.

Most anti-religion people are just as bad as the evangelist over the top pro christians they're against.

And usually just as preachy and desperate to force their opinion down your throat.

This page included.
It's "shoving it down your throat" just because I have a weighted and multifaceted opinion that I expressed? I've gotten this kind of response in other places when I've talked about mental illness/depression, feminism/rape culture, socialism, ecology, military action, etc and I really don't get it. It seems like a cheap way to blow someone off and avoid discussing things by any meaningful measure.

I didn't tell you guys what to believe, I only said that I think the things pointed out are a small part of the whole picture. I explained that my conviction is based on a great deal of experience and knowledge in order to communicate that it would take a lot to make me a moderate on the issue, not to try and be overbearing about what position you ought to take. I also never said that religion is deprived of good, only that I think the bad sides of it are ubiquitous and often overlooked for the good.

If you simply don't want to talk about it that is fine, and go ahead and say that, but I think it's dishonest to describe what I've written here in this way. I was intentionally trying to be personally expressive rather than combative. I don't see why it should be taken as combative just because my feelings toward religion are negative rather than neutral. Neutral is not some enlightened default for all things in life.
 

milkham

Member
Most anti-religion people are just as bad as the evangelist over the top pro christians they're against.

And usually just as preachy and desperate to force their opinion down your throat.

This page included.

usually its the newly minted atheist or theist that is most annoying and dogmatic.
 

giri

Member
I agree with this, but it is hard to put all the blame for "spoiling it" on them as free individuals when you see their holy book specifically instructs them to "disciple" in this manner all throughout. To whatever extent someone is moderate, they are ignoring many of the scriptures they say they believe in, so I would say it is a problem with the religion itself. If you think that is not true because everyone ignores some passages and there is thus no solid form to the thing, and it could be anything people choose it to be, then it is reduced to nothing but a title you place on a social movement and we have ceased talking about religion and are discussing a vague notion of spirituality.

It's "shoving it down your throat" just because I have a weighted and multifaceted opinion that I expressed? I've gotten this kind of response in other places when I've talked about mental illness/depression, feminism/rape culture, socialism, ecology, military action, etc and I really don't get it. It seems like a cheap way to blow someone off and avoid discussing things by any meaningful measure.

I didn't tell you guys what to believe, I only said that I think the things pointed out are a small part of the whole picture. I explained that my conviction is based on a great deal of experience and knowledge in order to communicate that it would take a lot to make me a moderate on the issue, not to try and be overbearing about what position you ought to take. I also never said that religion is deprived of good, only that I think the bad sides of it are ubiquitous and often overlooked for the good.

If you simply don't want to talk about it that is fine, and go ahead and say that, but I think it's dishonest to describe what I've written here in this way. I was intentionally trying to be personally expressive rather than combative. I don't see why it should be taken as combative just because my feelings toward religion are negative rather than neutral. Neutral is not some enlightened default for all things in life.
See, i'm not even reading that dice, and i can already tell the content.

But thanks for a 250 word reply telling me how you're not shoving it down my throat.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
See, i'm not even reading that dice, and i can already tell the content.

But thanks for a 250 word reply telling me how you're not shoving it down my throat.
So you have been sarcastically attacking, assuming, dismissive, willing to provoke rather than request to drop or change the topic, but then unwilling to listen or communicate to understand each other or come to terms. Yes, you are really making yourself out to be a reasonable person and enlightened agent of social harmony here. If your only goal, at the expense of any other, was simply to annoy the fuck out of me so I don't want to talk about it anymore, mission accomplished.
 

ramyeon

Member
Usually bible bashing pisses me off, this is the first time the athiest equivalent is just as bad. Get this out of our kpop thread.

Save us, Eunji & the 8 muses.
 

giri

Member
I was obv joking but anorexia isn't funny.

Eunji's great, and while she's skinny as someone who has grown up skinny from genetics and not an eating disorder, being called anorexic all the time out of ignorance is shitty.

I only used creepy small cause that photo was creepy, and all the girls in kpop are small (well, for the most part).

She auiight, aint my thang tho.
 

ramyeon

Member
I only used creepy small cause that photo was creepy, and all the girls in kpop are small (well, for the most part).

She auiight, aint my thang tho.
Yeah that photo was inherently creepy. I don't get the whole kpop tape measure around wait thing, it's odd. Those abs though, damn.
 
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