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[Syph Medwes]

Lupe's response was weaker than I expected. Not bad, but not great at all. Ortiz probably has the best response so far.

 

[DominoKid]

BASQUIAT
BASQUIAT
BASQUIAT

PICASSO BABY!

 

[cdyhybrid]

Sad thing is I want this to be true but Kendrick is not built like those rappers. He can't battle. Listen to his rhymes, look at his upbringing.

I still don't understand what you mean when you say this. What does his upbringing have to do with it? He grew up in Compton at the height of the East-West beef. Do you have to be a gangbanger to be a good battle rapper? I still haven't seen him get ethered in a hip-hop beef (mostly because he hasn't been in one yet).

Kanye, Drake, Cole. Lyricists sure, but can they diss track?

This is the problem. Kendrick is not in the lyrical class of those 3. Or rather, those three are not in Kendrick's lyrical class. Just because Kendrick moves units doesn't mean he's the same as the other dudes going platinum.

You do know thats how you win these "wars" right? You do know Pusha T is that mold of a rapper and he would eat Kendrick on a diss track right?

I think Push could do a fine response and could probably hold his own in a rap battle with Kendrick. But 1) he's not from NYC, and 2) I need to see that shit actually happen first and not assume it.

Wayne couldn't even respond to Exodus 23:1. Common got at Drake and Drake turned face. That's what these "old head" NY rappers are capable of, still to this day if you can believe. Kendrick is Q-Tip. Kendrick is Andre 3000.

Again. Kendrick is not Wayne. Kendrick is not Drake. Platinum artists are not all the same. Q-Tip hasn't done anything in 15 years, and 3k is M.I.A. right now.

I'll stop with this because my laptop is on laptop is on fire right now (heat), I see where you guys are coming from in regards to Kendrick. I just think some of you are wildly overrating his reach in Hip Hop. This is not his lane. Sure you can be a great lyricists but that does not mean you can get at a rappers ass real quick. Jay Electronica is a great lyricists but I doubt he can battle on wax. At the end of the day thats what this whole spectacle is about. Will Cole respond? Will NY respond? Then it's will Kendrick respond? That's where this will lead to. Kendrick ain't about that kind of Hip Hop. He needs to "tread lightly." (Love me some Breaking Bad)

I think you're overrating the "danger" Kendrick is putting himself in. Agree to disagree, I guess.

You just said he's a better lyricist than Jay. Head up he got sonned. Jay chooses to make a type of song, he didnt forget how to rap.

You think he got sonned. Like I said, I can't roll with that. Jay's verse was definitely better than a lot of stuff he's put out recently, but you make it sound like Kendrick got renegaded or something. Nah. It was a tight little verse about the same shit he's been saying for the past 10 years (I'm rich, I'm married to Beyonce, I know the President). And I'd take Section.80 (never mind GKMC) over anything Jay's put out since The Black Album.

 

[SUPREME1]

Go at Jay Z. Go at Nas. Go at Jadakiss. Go at Fabolous. King of NY means exactly those things, especially if he is not from the city. Sales doesn't equal king mann. King is meant for the best lyricist in the game. That's the essence of Hip Hop. KRS One to Rakim. Battle raps and who disses who best. Lamar is making better music now than any of the aforementioned artist. No doubt about it. But why mention NY unless you sending a message. It's valiant. But I would respect it more if he was more direct. But that's not him. He can't handle Jada on the mic. Or Fab imo. That's why Lupe checked him.

50 Cent went at Jay, Jay gave him the "I'm all about the dollar, wtf is 50 cents." 50 went at Jada and you know how that went. This all while 50 was a the top of the game $$$. Lil Wayne stood on subliminals but never went at the kings of the art form (Jay Z, Nas, Eminem, Jadakiss, Big Pun if he were alive). Ross is left alone for a reason but he never wanted the throne. Kanye and Drake took a different approach because they arent built for that kind of pressure. Lamar is new school and a dope lyricist. But if he wants to claim NY, he knows what he has to do and I personally don't think his style of verse and character holds up to it. Not yet and possibly not ever. Im just trying to point to you what "King of NY" stands for in Hip Hop. What tht meant in the 90s and 00s.

Does Kendrick have "NY" over ASAP and Bronson? Hell fn yes. Love his music. But make a claim like that or disregard other real lyricist in the game, and you are going to have to back your claim up.

Step away from the keyboard bro. It's not as serious as you're making it to be. He's a young lion letting out a roar.

The old guard is dead, the young guard has no heart. This is why it's getting so much attention.

Rakim, Slick Rick, Biggie, Nas... all of them had their reign and can always call themselves king of ny and be legit. That said, the throne sits empty these days and Lamar felt letting his nuts hang.

 

[longbisquit]

But you just said nobody went at anybody for an NY throne from that era. Now you're talking about Kendrick again. You're kind of going all over the place here.

KRS One and Rakim were practially retired by the 90s. When I mean established, I am talking mainstream ideal of King of NY. Since the claim was made by the top MC's of the time, the connotation of it meaning the best carried over for years. It holds even more weight since they are considered the best ever (BIG, Nas, Jay Z one could make an argument for each). NY is a shell of its self nowadays, but that kind of Hip Hop (90s lyricists) is still considered the de facto of the genre (golden age).

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Lupe's response was weaker than I expected. Not bad, but not great at all.

His Robocop reference saved the track for me.

Ortiz probably has the best response so far.

Yup. Most complete delivery.

B.O.B. just gave up and played guitar and then died.

 

[oc]

edit: old as hell

 

[Jest Chillin]

*KRS One and Rakim were practially retired by the 90s. When I mean established, I am talking mainstream ideal of King of NY. Since the claim was made by the top MC's of the time, the connotation of it meaning the best carried over for years. It holds even more weight since they are considered the best ever (BIG, Nas, Jay Z one could make an argument for each). NY is a shell of its self nowadays, but that kind of Hip Hop (90s lyricists) is still considered the de facto of the genre (golden age).

*And people are saying the same of dudes like Nas and Jay when they haven't put out anything of relevance in years.

And the only legitimate claim to being one of the best ever in that group is BIG. Nas and Jay did great things but they were never head and shoulders above the rest like BIG was. Nas started making shiny suit rap and Jay is the reason being "renegade'd" is a thing. That's not really the point though.

The only people who think the dudes from the 90's are still "kings" are the dudes who are stuck being into 90's rap. You may not realize it but the same things were being said about 90's rappers by dudes who were into 80's rap. "I mean Big Pimpin is cool and all but Jay got nothing on Rakim or Kool G Rap" etc.. etc..

 

[Dreams-Visions]

PICASSO BABY!

I weap.

Spoiler

sprays on Tom Ford cologne

 

[Nibel]

F' Lupe Fiasco

LASERS happened

Nobody should care to whoop that guy's ass - especially since he whoopied his ass himself

 

[longbisquit]

*And people are saying the same of dudes like Nas and Jay when they haven't put out anything of relevance in years.

And the only legitimate claim to being one of the best ever in that group is BIG. Nas and Jay did great things but they were never head and shoulders above the rest like BIG was. Nas started making shiny suit rap and Jay is the reason being "renegade'd" is a thing. That's not really the point though.

The only people who think the dudes from the 90's are still "kings" are the dudes who are stuck being into 90's rap. You may not realize it but the same things were being said about 90's rappers by dudes who were into 80's rap. "I mean Big Pimpin is cool and all but Jay got nothing on Rakim or Kool G Rap" etc.. etc..

IMO Nas is the greatest rapper of all time followed by Big and then Rakim. Nas was a better lyricist than BIG, no question sorry. Had Nas taken the bullet, he would be revered more. Jay would crush Kool G Rap sorry. Don't disrespect Jay because he is versatile. These are the best lyricist and not the best rappers in general (sales, discography, etc.) I can only name the top 3 lyricist on my list in that order but can name the rest that fill out a top 10: Eminem, KRS One, Andre 3000, Jay Z, Q-Tip. I got as far as 8 from the top of my head.

I would agree with you if it were not for these 90s rappers getting on tracks with these new rappers and killing them on it. That's the point of proof. These rappers still hold some of the best bars year round. But that's just the state of the genre nowadays. Hopefully a new wave like Lamar and Cole begin to put out great sounding lyrical records.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Nas doesn't have the benefit of being dead right after his prime like Big, as crude as that is to say.

 

[Jest Chillin]

IMO Nas is the greatest rapper of all time followed by Big and then Rakim. Nas was a better lyricist than BIG, no question sorry. Had Nas taken the bullet, he would be revered more. Jay would crush Kool G Rap sorry. Don't disrespect Jay because he is versatile. These are the best lyricist and not the best rappers in general (sales, discography, etc.) I can only name the top 3 lyricist on my list in that order but can name the rest that fill out a top 10: Eminem, KRS One, Andre 3000, Jay Z, Q-Tip. I got as far as 8 from the top of my head.

I would agree with you if it were not for these 90s rappers getting on tracks with these new rappers and killing them on it. That's the point of proof. These rappers still hold some of the best bars year round. But that's just the state of the genre nowadays. Hopefully a new wave like Lamar and Cole begin to put out great sounding lyrical records.

You understand that I could take that entire post and replace the names to make it fit the same argument made by a dude who enjoyed 80's rappers more than 90's rappers right?

That's the point that I'm making. There's no real basis for the criteria you're setting aside from your own personal opinion which can be very easily debated. Even talking about 90's rappers killing these new dudes on collabs is being argued right now in this thread. It's far from a clear cut consensus.

 

[captmcblack]

BIG is GOAT.

The title "King of NY" has been abdicated since his death. Since then, only Nas and Jay-Z could even think of that title without it being laughable.

Kendrick's commentary is perfect, because that throne is empty - the older guys aren't in that mode anymore, and the young guys are either making diet rap for the radio that features Skylar Grey or get house/dubstep remixes, not ready for prime time yet, are doing ultra-backpack rappity rap that would never be relevant in the mainstream, or have outright commandeered other cities' styles and could never be respected as KONY (you can't sound like Lil' Flip, talk about Fashion Week, and be KONY...you just can't).

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Nas doesn't have the benefit of being dead right after his prime like Big, as crude as that is to say.

I have no reason to believe that with an extra 14 years in the game, BIG would have lost his ability to tell a story.

That's what was always remarkable about BIG to me. He was a genuine storyteller. He'd paint a picture so clear in his lyrics, you'd swear you were part of the story...or watching it on TV. I think back to Ten Crack Commandments, or What's Beef? or I Got A Story To Tell, or Juicy or Warning and...it's like you watched everything he said unfold in front of you. It's a talent, and I have no real reason to believe he would have lost that talent and started making boring, thematically deficient music. So for me, BIG will always be my favorite.

Nas was and still is a storyteller, though I admit I haven't heard him tell a truly compelling story since the Streets Disciple album and that's unfortunate. Seku Story, Live Now, Rest of My Life, and Just A Moment are true classics. Heavy work. Jay never was a great storyteller (except a few noteworthy tracks), thought what he had to say used to be much more varied, interesting and powerfully told than it is today.

 

[longbisquit]

You understand that I could take that entire post and replace the names to make it fit the same argument made by a dude who enjoyed 80's rappers more than 90's rappers right?

That's the point that I'm making. There's no real basis for the criteria you're setting aside from your own personal opinion which can be very easily debated. Even talking about 90's rappers killing these new dudes on collabs is being argued right now in this thread. It's far from a clear cut consensus.

But you just "renegade'd" Jay Z on his Eminem collab and claimed Big head and shoulders above Nas and Jay so your point is moot. It is a general consensus as to who is best or near the top of the all time list. Same is done in Rock forums to Pop forums. We take polls, we have "esteemed" panels decide for us and so on. You can pretty much generalize a top 10 list. You can pretty much generalize Lamar being at the top of the game right now.

 

[Jest Chillin]

But you just "renegade'd" Jay Z on his Eminem collab and claimed Big head and shoulders above Nas and Jay so your point is moot. It is a general consensus as to who is best or near the top of the all time list. Same is done in Rock forums to Pop forums. We take polls, we have "esteemed" panels decide for us and so on. You can pretty much generalize a top 10 list. You can pretty much generalize Lamar being at the top of the game right now.

The bolded makes no sense. Those are two things that are very commonly accepted with the only caveat to BIG (or Pac depending on who you talk to) being that it's an unfair comparison since they passed away while on top while others have had time to produce lower quality. I'm not even stating that those are necessarily my opinions.

As for Kendrick being on top.. it depends on who you talk to. This generation has, for the most part, been fine with everybody just being in a tie for first place and this verse was Kendrick outright stating that he's not having that. Push the limits, raise the bar, and compete again.

 

[longbisquit]

BIG is GOAT.

The title "King of NY" has been abdicated since his death. Since then, only Nas and Jay-Z could even think of that title without it being laughable.

Kendrick's commentary is perfect, because that throne is empty - the older guys aren't in that mode anymore, and the young guys are either making diet rap for the radio that features Skylar Grey or get house/dubstep remixes, not ready for prime time yet, are doing ultra-backpack rappity rap that would never be relevant in the mainstream, or have outright commandeered other cities' styles and could never be respected as KONY (you can't sound like Lil' Flip, talk about Fashion Week, and be KONY...you just can't).

Plz. You do know that Big went at Nas for the throne right. Forget Jay for a minute because he came into the fold after, Nas had Illmatic on his belt. That was Big's competition. Nas never truly responded to Bigs subliminals or Pac diss, but make no mistake Nas would have more than help up on his end. Look at what he did to Jay. Nas was the 3rd head in that trinity (Pac, Big, Nas). Now we can argue who was best between Big and Nas but dont slight the Gods Son like that. You sound amateurish.

And no one can say that Big would have kept delivering had he survived his shooting. Same can be said about Nirvana.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

And no one can say that Big would have kept delivering had he survived his shooting. Same can be said about Nirvana.

of course you can't say that he wouldn't either, so what's the point of this vein of conversation?

As for Kendrick being on top.. it depends on who you talk to. This generation has, for the most part, been fine with everybody just being in a tie for first place

I blame Obama. and teachers telling kids that everyone's a winner. Fuck that noise.

 

[longbisquit]

The bolded makes no sense. Those are two things that are very commonly accepted with the only caveat to BIG (or Pac depending on who you talk to) being that it's an unfair comparison since they passed away while on top while others have had time to produce lower quality. I'm not even stating that those are necessarily my opinions.

As for Kendrick being on top.. it depends on who you talk to. This generation has, for the most part, been fine with everybody just being in a tie for first place and this verse was Kendrick outright stating that he's not having that. Push the limits, raise the bar, and compete again.

Find me where it is commonly accepted that Big is head and shoulders better than nas? I'll wait.

I bet I can find a better general consensus on Illmatic being better than Ready to die.

 

[Agent_J]

Find me where it is commonly accepted that Big is head and shoulders better than nas? I'll wait.

I bet I can find a better general consensus on Illmatic being better than Ready to die.

they both got mad respect but nas lost points after getting buddy buddy with his former rival. biggie will always be the king of NY (the streets always support him, fuck what the internet or reviewers think)

illmatic is fucking amazing, but ready to die is untouchable. they're different flavors of hip hop, and it's not easy to prefer one over the other.

 

[longbisquit]

of course you can't say that he wouldn't either, so what's the point of this vein of conversation?

I misread your quote. Thought you said BIG would still have maintained that level for 14 years.

 

[WanderingWind]

they both got mad respect but nas lost points after getting buddy buddy with his former rival. biggie will always be the king of NY (the streets always support him, fuck what the internet or reviewers think)

illmatic is fucking amazing, but ready to die is untouchable. they're different flavors of hip hop, and it's not easy to prefer one over the other.

Plus, Nas doesn't know how to blow on pizza before shoving it down his gullet.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Find me where it is commonly accepted that Big is head and shoulders better than nas? I'll wait.

I bet I can find a better general consensus on Illmatic being better than Ready to die.

You're really determined to continue changing topics aren't you? Trying to push your opinion as a fact when it isn't doesn't strengthen your point about who the King or Kings of New York are.

 

[Gorillaz]

^That is actually one of the things I thought about would be a good counter to his verse is the fact he has only one album. From a mainstream/sells standpoint he isn't at a level to actually dictate the game. However, Kdot paid them dues. Especially in mix tapes and getting respect from the community so that kind of weighs it out.

 

[TheOddOne]

Big Daddy Kane is the only right answer, heathens.

 

[longbisquit]

The bolded makes no sense. Those are two things that are very commonly accepted with the only caveat to BIG (or Pac depending on who you talk to) being that it's an unfair comparison since they passed away while on top while others have had time to produce lower quality. I'm not even stating that those are necessarily my opinions.

As for Kendrick being on top.. it depends on who you talk to. This generation has, for the most part, been fine with everybody just being in a tie for first place and this verse was Kendrick outright stating that he's not having that. Push the limits, raise the bar, and compete again.

I answered this quote in bold. Never changed subjects. Let's take Bigs active years and still 94-97 there were no sure accepted claims as to who was the best between them.

 

[overcast]

Are these clowns backpackers? I tend to hate backpackers these days. Bunch of faux intellectual fakes.

I prefer recent acts like Macklemore. I see a bunch of hip hop heads shake their heads at Macklemore, but he's a clever rapper who makes witty and positive songs people can actually fucking relate to. Fuck that rappity rap rap rap shit. It fucking sucks. Mackleomore shits on your modern era backpack fave.

Give me examples of modern rappers that Macklemore is better than? Like the backpackers you're talking about. Who are they?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

What is with these modern cats? A lot of them don't even seem to have the ability to make actual songs, just lines and lines of freestyle like raps. It's like if Jin actually still had a career. I listened to Asap Ferg's new album, and the production is straight, but like, I can't tell a single song apart from the next. Technical rap is cool, but it's not enough to make me come back around for a second bite.

Are these clowns backpackers? I tend to hate backpackers these days. Bunch of faux intellectual fakes.

I prefer recent acts like Macklemore. I see a bunch of hip hop heads shake their heads at Macklemore, but he's a clever rapper who makes witty and positive songs people can actually fucking relate to. Fuck that rappity rap rap rap shit. It fucking sucks. Mackleomore shits on your modern era backpack fave.

Macklemore is just Beck 2

 

[qizah]

What is with these modern cats? A lot of them don't even seem to have the ability to make actual songs, just lines and lines of freestyle like raps. It's like if Jin actually still had a career. I listened to Asap Ferg's new album, and the production is straight, but like, I can't tell a single song apart from the next. Technical rap is cool, but it's not enough to make me come back around for a second bite.

Are these clowns backpackers? I tend to hate backpackers these days. Bunch of faux intellectual fakes.

I prefer recent acts like Macklemore. I see a bunch of hip hop heads shake their heads at Macklemore, but he's a clever rapper who makes witty and positive songs people can actually fucking relate to. Fuck that rappity rap rap rap shit. It fucking sucks. Mackleomore shits on your modern era backpack fave.

:lol what ... Macklemore.

So no one can relate to any songs from Kendrick? J Cole? Krit? Get out.

 

[WanderingWind]

We've joked about somebody going full Macklemore is real rap before, but I've never actually seen it. It's like I'm seeing a unicorn for the first time.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

^That is actually one of the things I thought about would be a good counter to his verse is the fact he has only one album. From a mainstream/sells standpoint he isn't at a level to actually dictate the game. However, Kdot paid them dues. Especially in mix tapes and getting respect from the community so that kind of weighs it out.

He has one album but it was widely considered AOTY and went platinum. Can't think of anyone but Ye who can make an art rap album and still go platinum. (Yeezus showed even Ye can stumble sales wise). He got pretty technical too, not since Eminem has a rap album been well received critically, sold in stores and had S tier rapping. That plus his mixtapes were really good to boot and he has tons of great features.

He called himself King of NY and no one has built a worthwhile case against him. Kendrick's sitting in the NY throne with a LA cap on til further notice.

 

[WanderingWind]

He has one album but it was widely considered AOTY and went platinum. Can't think of anyone but Ye who can make an art rap album and still go platinum. (Yeezus showed even Ye can stumble sales wise). He got pretty technical too, not since Eminem has a rap album been well received critically, sold in stores and had S tier rapping. That plus his mixtapes were really good to boot and he has tons of great features.

He called himself King of NY and no one has built a worthwhile case against him. Kendrick's sitting in the NY throne with a LA cap on til further notice.

....Macklemore went platinum tho

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

Give me examples of modern rappers that Macklemore is better than? Like the backpackers you're talking about. Who are they?

It doesn't even matter man. Macklemore is just the dude people who "don't like rap right now" can point to and say "but that one guy is nice". Nobody that listened to GKMC could possibly consider it backpacker in the slightest. Nobody that listened to GKMC could possibly consider it a "sell out" album. You might not love it or even like it, but that shit is true to Kendrick and everything he's been his whole career.

Fucking Sing About Me, man. Sing About Me is untouchable.

 

[Macca]

We've joked about somebody going full Macklemore is real rap before, but I've never actually seen it. It's like I'm seeing a unicorn for the first time.

I actually thought that was you posting for a second.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

....Macklemore went platinum tho

Macklemore is the Taylor Swift of rap.

 

[2real4tv]

I like Cass and Joelll so farI think the ill comeback is if someone rhymed to all ken beats(snippets) from his album

 

[Kentpaul]

Macklemore try's to hard with his cringe worthy flow.

 

[Macca]

Macklemore is the Taylor Swift of rap.

Taylor Swift is probably a better rapper than Macklemore.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

Taylor Swift is probably a better rapper than Macklemore.

Better Red album than Game.

 

[WanderingWind]

I actually thought that was you posting for a second.

I did too!

Macklemore is the Taylor Swift of rap.

Go to hell!!!!!

 

[Jest Chillin]

I answered this quote in bold. Never changed subjects. Let's take Bigs active years and still 94-97 there were no sure accepted claims as to who was the best between them.

What you did was select a minor part of my post that was an aside and try to focus on it as a way to sweep the rest of my points under the table.

We were discussing the criteria that you use in your stance that Jay/Nas/BIG are still Kings despite being largely absent lately and never dethroning previous generations. Now you want to debate opinions on whether Nas was better than Biggie going so far as to ask me to provide evidence of an opinion.. from where I have no idea because you can dig up a forum or blog that supports anything online.

I'm not trying to argue in circles anymore than I have already to be honest.

 

[Esch]

itt:

 

[CountBlack]

I like Cass and Joelll so farI think the ill comeback is if someone rhymed to all ken beats(snippets) from his album

That'd be so corny.

 

[billy beane]

Macklemore is only popular with white people who don't listen to hip hop.

 

[Order]

What is with these modern cats? A lot of them don't even seem to have the ability to make actual songs, just lines and lines of freestyle like raps. It's like if Jin actually still had a career. I listened to Asap Ferg's new album, and the production is straight, but like, I can't tell a single song apart from the next. Technical rap is cool, but it's not enough to make me come back around for a second bite.

Are these clowns backpackers? I tend to hate backpackers these days. Bunch of faux intellectual fakes.

I prefer recent acts like Macklemore. I see a bunch of hip hop heads shake their heads at Macklemore, but he's a clever rapper who makes witty and positive songs people can actually fucking relate to. Fuck that rappity rap rap rap shit. It fucking sucks. Mackleomore shits on your modern era backpack fave.

Macklemore...lol

 

[Grover Cleveland]

This thread right now.

 

[Esch]

Jay would crush Kool G Rap sorry.

 

[WanderingWind]

Macklemore is only popular with white people who don't listen to hip hop.

HEY.

HEY.

HE IS ALSO POPULAR WITH WHITE PEOPLE WHO DO LISTEN TO RAP

 

[Macca]

Macklemore is only popular with white people who don't listen to hip hop.

EDIT: damn you WanderingWind!