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Kepler - There's two SoCs in development for next-gen PlayStation, not sure if it's a Series X/S situation or home console + handheld

Hohenheim

Member
899 for a "complete edition" incl. Disc drive and 2 tb ssd, 599 for "core edition" without disc drive and a minimal ssd with 0,5 gb.
And they will promote it with the glorious freedom of giving players the freedom to choose between various ssd drives, from 1tb to 4 tb! Freedom!
Top speced with 4gb ssd will be a total of 1099.

Handheld would be cool, but the scenario above doesn't feel as far fetched as it would a couple of years ago.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Not really.
The Xbox will likely be a Windows Handheld. It will be competing with ROG Ally, Steam Deck, etc.
They won't be making a dedicated handheld console.
Just my speculation, though.

If the handhelds are called "Xbox" and "PlayStation".....

war GIF
 
Pretty cool to see Kepler pop up in these parts 👍

Two SOCs for SIE next-gen sounds plausible. We've already heard about the potential PS portable; should be a safe guess one of those SOCs is in relation to that.

But now I've been wondering, what if the PS6 is more like a Gamecube -> Wii type of situation, at least in raw specs, and the real gains are in custom accelerated silicon that's also shared in some way with the portable? Look at it this way: PS5 Pro is going to be $800 when you also factor in the stand and disc drive. SIE probably have good margins on it, but I doubt production prices become so low in the next 4 or so years that they can put out something like a PS5 Pro @ $499 while retaining the same margins, especially if they go with a more advanced node process (2nm is rumored).

At the same time, SIE know that a proper new next-gen PS6 at $699/$799 is going to lead to a much lower overall install base, and that could limit them on the one aspect of growth that makes some sense: new younger players, including new young adults. Is it worth cutting them off just to have the highest possible margins through a high price? And it's not like SIE won't have to greatly increase budget in some areas like RAM (they'll need at least 32 GB's worth, and at higher bandwidth).

The hardware at this point, at least looking at things like the PS5 Pro, aren't even the limiting factor in game performance anymore. Time, budget, and manpower are; putting out some monster PS6 costing $800 is just going to ultimately mean even fewer AAA games as they take longer and longer to make, costing more to make, meaning safer games. How can the AAA market survive that? PS6 needs to focus on technologies that help cut down costs, team sizes, and time of game development, both in the console hardware and in their development suites. In terms of base TF for example, does a PS6 really need to be anything more than maybe 25% over the PS5 Pro? Perhaps even less than that?

Meanwhile I could see them targeting the lower-end SOC to be something around PS5 performance, maybe as a portable that's like a PS4 Pro in performance undocked and PS5 level while docked. Have smart tech shared between both and make sure in the portable it can also just "automatically" configure PS6 games to run at the portable's specs; save as much of the profile building from the dev's hands as possible. But I think that means their next-gen tech will have to include things like AI-accelerated ways of smartly scaling mesh geometry, using framebuffers to determine it, and maybe even having an ability to generate predictive framebuffers on the GPU similar to how CPUs can do branch prediction, using results of previous framebuffers & metadata related to the player session to do so. A bit like frame generation in concept, but only partially (hopefully 10th gen systems also have some form of frame generation in the package though).

At least on the tech side of things, there are a lot of interesting possibilities for 10th gen SIE console systems.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
I am calling it, next gen would be the first one where we get a PS6 and PS6pro at launch. The only differences between the two are

GPU (the pro would be at least twice as powerful)

RAM bandwidth (yes bandwidth, not quantity, with the pro having about 45% more RAM bandwidth)

SSD size. One will have 1TB and the other 2TB.

PS6 will cost $499 and PS6pro will cost $699.

Both will come without a disc drive, which will be sold separately.

Unsure if you're able to answer this but what are two SoC's and how much more powerful would this be in comparison to the PS5 Pro?
I doubt he will even know that at this stage. We are a ways off, and the tech that would ultimately go into them isn't even on the market yet.
 
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The Office No GIF

I’ll tell you how it’s going to be. You’ll have your adorably all digital PS6 at the same price (500$€££ (get it? sell, hehe)), and then an upgradeable el with disk “pro” version for a price that’ll depend on how well the Pro is going to do in different markets (and by the 30th anniversary edition thread I’d say it’ll do just well enough). God, do I hate current day Sony. They better nail this second part of the generation or I’m going PC. And I mean really nail it. With a 2005-like Motorstorm or something like that for the 90s fans. Not only their interactive movies shit.
I expect a new Motorstorm and Killzone IV...
Add to the mix a full remake-reboot of the first God of War (gameplay ala GoW 2018-Ragnarok) and also....

Uncharted 5, this one being a good old classic Drake and Sully adventure, linear pulp storyline as Uncharted 2 (no long walking segments, and no semi-open areas.

Gimme just 10 hours of extreme top notch next gen graphics and superb focused gameplay and I'll buy all yours PS5 pros and Ps6 without disk drive or whatever crap you Sony pull out.
 

aclar00

Member
Excuse my language, but naw, fuck a handheld!!! It would undoubtedly be all digital and only serve to empower Sony to force feed digital sooner.
 

aclar00

Member
If they share the same games it probably will. If they have different libraries I wouldn't trust Sony to support it. Not after Vita.

Will likely only be PSN store though. Doubt Sony would give out digital codes with physical purchases. Otherwise you would have to double dip.
 
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danklord

Gold Member
The Xbox Series S | X release was ridiculous, anti-consumer, and ultimately bad for the industry. Peak Xbox buffoonery. Sony won’t make this mistake. No one should make this mistake ever again.

With the rise of PC handhelds, the idea of a next gen handheld + console synergistic release makes sense to me, that captures two very different use cases (audiences) while ultimately driving up the buy in for whales who will buy anything they release.
 

splattered

Member
That's one angle. But doubt they're copying that train wreck.

Or, the various other theories that are in this thread with actual hotter smoke. Portal/handheld or wireless PSVR.

Unfortunately their history with portable hardware gives me no confidence. I've owned psp, vita, psvr, psvr2 and while awesome machines i quickly regretted buying each of them.
 

Mobilemofo

Member
Ps6 and ps6 mobile (work in progress name) confirmed. Base machine at home, handheld for away. Full access to PSN without base ps6 being on. Can add handheld to the base ps6 for extra grunt and more ram.

Maybe. 😅
 
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Schmick

Member
If it's a case of a PS6 and a handheld wouldn't the handheld be less powerful than the PS6 aka a Series X / Series S situation.

Or would developers have to develop specially for the handheld aka a Vita situation.
 
The Xbox Series S | X release was ridiculous, anti-consumer, and ultimately bad for the industry. Peak Xbox buffoonery. Sony won’t make this mistake. No one should make this mistake ever again.

Might not be any other option unless you think a $1k base console would work.
 

bender

What time is it?
If it's a case of a PS6 and a handheld wouldn't the handheld be less powerful than the PS6 aka a Series X / Series S situation.

Or would developers have to develop specially for the handheld aka a Vita situation.

I don't think the Vita situation is very likely. Two game profiles for the PS6 makes more sense but the bigger question would be backwards compatibility with PS4/PS5 titles.
 

kevboard

Member
If it's a case of a PS6 and a handheld wouldn't the handheld be less powerful than the PS6 aka a Series X / Series S situation.

Or would developers have to develop specially for the handheld aka a Vita situation.

it will probably be the same concept as the Series S and X.
as we have seen throughout the current and last generation of consoles, games and engines become more and more scalable, which makes a 2 system family like this more and more viable.

even the Steam Deck, which has a GPU on the level of an Xbox One, can still play most modern AAA games without any work being done to properly optimise for it.
the Asus Rog Ally X, which has a GPU on a level slightly better than the PS4, can play all modern AAA games without optimisations being done, and can do so at surprisingly good performance as well.

with optimisation and targeted porting, games like Jedi Survivor which can barely run above 30fps on mid-range PC CPUs, suddenly can run on PS4 and XBox One. systems with some of the worst CPUs for its time in the history of computers.

so, a low power handheld to accompany your new console will be easier and easier to pull off as time goes on. both due to the scalability of game engines, and due to dev teams quite literally hitting a wall where adding more detail takes so much time, that it starts to become less and less viable from a manpower perspective.
so hardware will soon not be the limiting factor anymore when it comes to game fidelity.
 
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sachos

Member
If it was a handheld it would have to be BC with PS5 games and strong enough to be at least a bit of an upgrade to support PS6 games. I don't know, will tech evolve that much in 4 years to be possible? Maybe if they are thinking about some crazy generative neural rendering by that time.
Either way a handheld would be an extreme version of the S/X situation no? Would seriously compromise the PS6 games.
 
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danklord

Gold Member
It was $200 originally.

AMD's chiplets (assuming they'd be able to do this at console like volume) would make things easier.
True, my oversight. Still my point remains. Launching two consoles simultaneously is a failure of a strategy and has hurt the industry. You’d have to be insane to do it again.
 

Silver Wattle

Gold Member
Could also be a Pro launch along side normal instead of mid gen.

If it's a PS6 handheld in the vein of a steam deck it could be much better received than the series s if they let Devs dial down the settings such as frame rate rt etc.

Since we are speculating on the PS6, I think the most likely process node they will use is TSMC 3NB, but it would be great if they used 3NX.
 
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foamdino

Member
My guess is that the smoke around a new PS handheld is firmer than people thought.

I guess MLiD got the scoop and this is a handheld designed to play ps4, ps5 and ps6 games.

I really doubt it's a scaled down ps6 (we've seen the series s kerfuffle and know the outcome there), I really doubt it would be like vita where devs have to build specific games for the hw. If the SoC is the same instruction set/ISA and has the same gpu, then I can see this being a success.

I'd be interested in a portable that can play all my ps4/ps5 digital games at a lower res. I could even imagine getting a portable *before* jumping for the home console next gen - since I travel for big chunks of time and my work laptop can only handle a smaller variety of steam games.

If it has the pssr ML hw (which I would think it should do), then I can imagine it being a beast since it could target a low internal res and upscale to 1080/1440p easily.

Interesting times ahead.
 

foamdino

Member
Also when are we getting the "Official PS6 speculation" thread? Seems like we're already hearing some leaks/news and capturing it in one place would make sense
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yes, but they could be aiming for higher margins, say $599 regular PS6 and $799-$899 Pro.
It would create problems for devs like the Series S did and they would still need an Ultra something like midget refresh before PS7. Their Pro consoles are designed with practical use of the base console in mind to more cheaply / effectively allow Sony to create the final form of that generation’s architecture.

I think that idea sounds like it would generate quite bad press, still necessitates a mid gen refresh, and keep increasing the console cost for the market until they get disrupted and/or most of their consumers feel pushed to PC where Sony charges no fee in third party games (no royalties) and has 0 PSN subscribers so a bit of a company suicide.

A PC based handheld on the other way… perhaps, but I would want SteamOS and Proton on that baby, just swallow your pride Sony and do it With Valve…
 

Stu_Hart

Member
It better be disc and discless versions, nothing more. If it's a similar situation as xbox series s/x, it will be dumb for sony seeing as how mark cerny keeps saying how they are for the developers, and developers repeatedly mentioned and gave hints that the series s is holding back the xbox.
 
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Mr.Phoenix

Member
I say they are called PS6 S and PS6 and there won't be a disc drive at all.
They won't use the "S" suffix—it's too Xboxy. And they can't not have a disc drive at all. There will always be a disc drive add-on sold separately going forward. The only difference is that it may just become less integrated—from something that looks like it was made with the console to being just an external disc loader connected via USB C cable.
It would create problems for devs like the Series S did and they would still need an Ultra something like midget refresh before PS7. Their Pro consoles are designed with practical use of the base console in mind to more cheaply / effectively allow Sony to create the final form of that generation’s architecture.

I think that idea sounds like it would generate quite bad press, still necessitates a mid gen refresh, and keep increasing the console cost for the market until they get disrupted and/or most of their consumers feel pushed to PC where Sony charges no fee in third party games (no royalties) and has 0 PSN subscribers so a bit of a company suicide.

A PC based handheld on the other way… perhaps, but I would want SteamOS and Proton on that baby, just swallow your pride Sony and do it With Valve…
It won't. Only reason Xbox Series S caused problems, is because MS didn't do it right.

The right way to do something like this is to ensure both models have the exact same CPU and the same amount of RAM, with the only differences between them being the size of the GPU and their memory bandwidth. And we're not talking about different-sized buses, which is kind of bandwidth crippling, no... we're talking about different RAM chips being used, e.g., one being 18Gbs chips and the other being 21Gbs (just an example; GDDR7 starts from around 31Gbs, I think).

In all seriousness though, I think they are less likely to do something like this.
 

SweetTooth

Gold Member
Sony won't go Series X/S route, Its gonna be PS6 (traditional next gen console with all bells and whistles)
PS6Portable (Same games, features in a portable form)

If executed right, this could be AMAZING!
 
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