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[r1chard]

So I'm 180 hours into the game and something I've never figured out is how to "simulate" a particular part of a mission. I've heard Manley refer to simulating in the past, and I figure there's some mod that enables it. What I basically want to do is be able to test that a Mun lander actually has the ability land on the Mun and return. I always end up having to guess (and usually don't have enough fuel). I've used the engineer mod in the dim past, but its delta-v calculations aren't always correct because staging can confuse it.


.. tonight I get to send another rescue mission to the Mun to bring back Jeb from the first Mun landing. At least he made it as far as a stable Mun orbit

 

[gutterboy44]

From what I understand, the way you simulate it is edit a save state. You basically get something in to orbit to test, save out of KSP, and then edit the file to place your ship in orbit around what ever you want. Load it back up and test away. I am sure there is a mod that does it all for you. For basic zero g tests, just put your ship on the launch pad and disable gravity via the debug menu.

 

[BronzeWolf]

You can look into the Stage Recovery Mod. It pretty much does what you're trying to do. When falling debris would be destroyed, it does a little math to work out the terminal velocity of the parts and see if you've got enough parachutes attached to each one. If it could have landed sufficiently slowly, it gives you a refund based on the softness of the landing and distance from KSC.

Thanks!

ATM is enough for me to know that recovery of stages is not intended nor expected

 

[gutterboy44]

Giantbomb KSP Quick Look is up. Vinny and Alex. Should be good.

 

[Ark]

What's the best way to return from the Mun? I got a lander down on it last night but I ran out of fuel immensely quickly before I could even get into an elliptical Mun orbit.

 

[Mengy]

What's the best way to return from the Mun? I got a lander down on it last night but I ran out of fuel immensely quickly before I could even get into an elliptical Mun orbit.

The only way to get back is to design a rocket and lander that will have enough fuel to do the round trip. So if your lander is going bingo fuel before it makes it back to Kerbin then you need to launch with more fuel. Which usually means you need more thrust, etc. It's all about design, delta velocity, and balance.

It's rocket science!

I'm having this problem now trying to get a science station in Mun orbit. I have a 2.5m heavy rocket that can get my station TO the Mun but I don't have enough fuel to circularize it's orbit. I've been tweaking and testing this rocket for two nights now, and I'm real close to nailing it. Hopefully tonight I get er done.

I've got a 1.25m rocket & lander designed that can do the Mun round trip easily with fuel to spare, if you want I can post pics of it tonight.

 

[Crispy75]

What's the best way to return from the Mun? I got a lander down on it last night but I ran out of fuel immensely quickly before I could even get into an elliptical Mun orbit.

If you want to mount a rescue mission, there's a trick so that you don't have to land again: Low munar orbit is around 6-700m/s. Your Kerbal's backpack has ~550m/s of dV. So you can get into a suborbital trajectory using the last of your lander's fuel, and circularise with the backpack. Leave a little in reserve so you can manoeuvre to a rendezvous with the rescue craft.

 

[gutterboy44]

I have found the easiest way to leave the Mun is to set off on a very aggressive 270 heading. That means, don't waste a bunch of time going vertical, get horizontal velocity as quickly as possible. You only need a 5Km Ap, you want to be pushing your Pe out the other side as much as possible during launch, instead of burning mostly vertical to a high Ap and coasting. There is no atmosphere and way less gravity so you can gravity turn almost instantly.

From there, just burn prograde on the opposite side of the Mun from Kerbin. Launching at 270 heading opposed to 90 allows you to eject away from the Mun's orbital path. This helps prevent getting sucked back in by the Mun's gravity when you start your retro burns to get back to Kerbin.

 

[WhirlwindMonk]

What's the best way to return from the Mun? I got a lander down on it last night but I ran out of fuel immensely quickly before I could even get into an elliptical Mun orbit.

I have found the easiest way to leave the Mun is to set off on a very aggressive 270 heading. That means, don't waste a bunch of time going vertical, get horizontal velocity as quickly as possible. You only need a 5Km Pe, you want to be pushing your Ae out the other side as much as possible during launch, instead of burning mostly vertical to a high Pe and coasting. There is no atmosphere and way less gravity so you can gravity turn almost instantly.

From there, just burn prograde on the opposite side of the Mun from Kerbin. Launching at 270 heading opposed to 90 allows you to eject away from the Mun's orbital path. This helps prevent getting sucked back in by the Mun's gravity when you start your retro burns to get back to Kerbin.

To expand on this, the most efficient way to leave Munar orbit is to burn prograde at the point in your orbit you are traveling opposite the direction of the Mun. Launching 270 and burning on the far side, as described above, does this, but you can get the same effect launching at 90 and burning on the near side.

Put your Kerbin Periapsis between 20 and 30km and the aerobreaking will be strong enough to bring you suborbital without coming in so fast that you risk heat/crash landing issues. You might be able to come in steeper than that, but I know 20-30k works every time. If you're really low on fuel, so long as you can get into the atmosphere (<70k periapsis), your orbit will eventually decay into a landing, but in the thin atmosphere above 40-50k it will probably take a very, very long time.

Regardless, it sounds like you needed more fuel anyway, if you couldn't even make Munar orbit. First places to check are take off and landing efficiency. Read up on efficient ascent trajectories to try to squeeze an extra hundred or two dV out of your launch. Then, try to spend as little time burning when landing as possible. If you've got nerves of steel, you can come in for an almost vertical landing and then wait until you're terrifyingly close to the ground and burn full power. If you want something a little less nerve wracking, below 10k try to keep you're speed at ~altitude/100 until. Once you get low enough to see your shadow, you'll need to eyeball it since alt/100 will crash you if you happen to be over one of the higher parts. Once you're feeling more comfortable, try starting at 5k. Also, make sure you point as close to retrograde as possible.

If that still doesn't get you enough, well, then it's time for moar fuel and moar boosters!

 

[mrklaw]

Any tips for clean launch to orbit? Even just simple rockets are not cleanly tipping over to 90 degrees, and the navball often starts slowly rotating after launch which makes lining things up difficult.

 

[mrklaw]

I just reached 70km for the first time. I experienced some weird problem and it goes like this:

1. Launch OK
2. Detach 1st stage OK
3. Hit "]" in order to watch the first stage
4. Activate 2nd stage OK
5. Hit "]" to go back to 1st stage free fall.
6. After a while I cannot go to back to the module at all!

I've killed like 5 Kerbals doing this and I feel awful!

Is there a way to go back to focusing on the module and still watch the debris?

Another question is: I've put parachutes on all the stages in order to save some money recovering them, but I don't know if it's working.Is this a viable strategy?

Debris despawns when it is 20-25km away from the item you have in focus, so not very practical to try and recover boosters etc. it is something I'd like them to add if possible though - eg mark specific parts as 'do not despawn'

 

[gutterboy44]

To expand on this, the most efficient way to leave Munar orbit is to burn prograde at the point in your orbit you are traveling opposite the direction of the Mun. Launching 270 and burning on the far side, as described above, does this, but you can get the same effect launching at 90 and burning on the near side.

Put your Kerbin Periapsis between 20 and 30km and the aerobreaking will be strong enough to bring you suborbital without coming in so fast that you risk heat/crash landing issues. You might be able to come in steeper than that, but I know 20-30k works every time. If you're really low on fuel, so long as you can get into the atmosphere (<70k periapsis), your orbit will eventually decay into a landing, but in the thin atmosphere above 40-50k it will probably take a very, very long time.

Regardless, it sounds like you needed more fuel anyway, if you couldn't even make Munar orbit. First places to check are take off and landing efficiency. Read up on efficient ascent trajectories to try to squeeze an extra hundred or two dV out of your launch. Then, try to spend as little time burning when landing as possible. If you've got nerves of steel, you can come in for an almost vertical landing and then wait until you're terrifyingly close to the ground and burn full power. If you want something a little less nerve wracking, below 10k try to keep you're speed at ~altitude/100 until. Once you get low enough to see your shadow, you'll need to eyeball it since alt/100 will crash you if you happen to be over one of the higher parts. Once you're feeling more comfortable, try starting at 5k. Also, make sure you point as close to retrograde as possible.

If that still doesn't get you enough, well, then it's time for moar fuel and moar boosters!

Wow, never have done that method before, I kind of just stuck with what worked, but I think this might be even more efficient. Cool, thanks for the tip. There is always something new to learn in this game.

 

[gutterboy44]

Any tips for clean launch to orbit? Even just simple rockets are not cleanly tipping over to 90 degrees, and the navball often starts slowly rotating after launch which makes lining things up difficult.

Just follow Scott's launch tips in this video. Having fins at the very bottom of your ship makes a huge difference in 1.0.2 now.

My one tip to add that he doesn't emphasize in the video is you need your ship to be rigid. If you ship is tall and flexes, you will get a very bad wobble. This happens because your engine gimbal is trying to correct what your command pod SAS is sensing, but if the ship has flex, it gets this horrible wobble effect and will likely tear your ship apart or cost a bunch of efficiency. When you rocket settles down on the launch pad, you don't want to see any parts flapping around or moving. Redesign or you can always strut that shit up. Struts create drag now so you can't go as overboard as before, but making sure you don't have flex is crucial.

 

[mrklaw]

Yeah it's literally just a two stage stick with the T200 tanks because I haven't unlocked the 400 yet, and fins on the bottom.

Any way to ensure the fins are aligned with NSEW?

 

[gutterboy44]

Yeah it's literally just a two stage stick with the T200 tanks because I haven't unlocked the 400 yet, and fins on the bottom.

Any way to ensure the fins are aligned with NSEW?

The door of the VAB opens to the east. So you can use that and angle snap to orient your fins. If your main engine has gimbal, you can decrease the gimbal limits by right clicking on it and sliding the green bar down. This will make the gimbal SAS adjustments less dramatic and can help reduce wobble on a flexible craft. With tall small tank rockets, you can definitely turn down the gimabl and still maneuver without issue.

It's easier to troubleshoot your design - post a screenshot

Also this. Not only is it fun to see other people's designs, there are several people in this thread that would be happy to help troubleshoot designs. Anyone having trouble, post away.

 

[Crispy75]

Any tips for clean launch to orbit? Even just simple rockets are not cleanly tipping over to 90 degrees, and the navball often starts slowly rotating after launch which makes lining things up difficult.

It's easier to troubleshoot your design - post a screenshot

 

[gutterboy44]

Oh my god, watching Vinny try to get back into a spinning ship while on EVA with like 0.35 mono-propellant left was the most stressful thing ever.

 

[kvk1]

Oh my god, watching Vinny try to get back into a spinning ship while on EVA with like 0.35 mono-propellant left was the most stressful thing ever.

I absolutely adore the way he described the Apoapsis.

"Oh my goooosh then WOOOSH around."

Vinny is the best.

 

[Ark]

Thanks for the advice, I'll give it another go tomorrow trying some of those tips. I want that Mun surface science badly ;_;

 

[Cecilathan]

So, it appears Valentina is lost (missing).

Does this mean I can rescue her, or is she gone forever? I checked the tracking station and I don't see her anywhere on the planet, and the astronaut complex says I still have 4 active Kerbals, although she is in the lost section. The last time I used her I think she made a splashdown in a body of water, but I didn't think it killed her...

All my Internet searching tells me to edit a file to get her back, but I'd prefer to save her legit, if possible. I know she'd appreciate it.

 

[zer0das]

I think she'll reappear after enough time passes. I don't think Kerbals die or stay MIA permanently.

 

[r1chard]

I think she'll reappear after enough time passes. I don't think Kerbals die or stay MIA permanently.

Yep, as long as you're not playing on Hard they'll respawn eventually.

 

[Cecilathan]

I skipped ahead to the next morning, and she showed up again in the astronaut complex. She must have had to walk home from that water landing.

Crisis averted.

 

[H1PSTER]

So I need a ton of cash in career mode.

What's the easiest way to get it? I can only "just" about make it to orbit the Mun, I can't afford to upgrade my science past 100 and I desperately need to .

 

[MacGurcules]

So I need a ton of cash in career mode.

What's the easiest way to get it? I can only "just" about make it to orbit the Mun, I can't afford to upgrade my science past 100 and I desperately need to .

Check out the admin building. You can do a policy there that gives you a sack of cash in exchange for a reputation hit. That's actually good for you, since a lower reputation will reduce the difficulty of the contracts you're being offered and make it earning more money a bit easier.

 

[mrklaw]

So I need a ton of cash in career mode.

What's the easiest way to get it? I can only "just" about make it to orbit the Mun, I can't afford to upgrade my science past 100 and I desperately need to .

How much of the tree have you unlocked? I know I've missed quite a few bits, but there is lots of science you can unlock just around kerbin - over each biome, on the pad, high altitude, sub orbital, low orbit, high orbit (and crew reports/goo/temperature in all of those and EVA in some), then various random test contracts

 

[ThreePiMatt]

In career mode I took a contract to put a satellite into orbit. Looking at the map, I see an orbit for some company, is that the orbit I'm supposed to match or are there just other companies out in the world doing their own thing? And if that is someone else's satellite could I send something out there to fuck them up?

 

[hobblygobbly]

I love the Chatterer mod, it adds immersion I guess? It uses reversed real life astronaut chatter - it works really well since it sounds like kerbals. Uses NASA & Soviet chatter.

If you don't want it reversed and want comprehensible chatter just put the audio files from the mod into audacity and go into Effects -> Reverse to re-reverse them back. Then just replace them in the mod files of Chatterer. Keep the file names intact.

 

[WhirlwindMonk]

In career mode I took a contract to put a satellite into orbit. Looking at the map, I see an orbit for some company, is that the orbit I'm supposed to match or are there just other companies out in the world doing their own thing? And if that is someone else's satellite could I send something out there to fuck them up?

That is the orbit they want.

In other news, I've got my first interplanetary vessel on the way. A four kerbal journey to Duna. Valentina is handling the lander and Jeb the nuke-powered interplanetary vessel. Paicca (Engineer) and Samcella (Scientist) are there to stow parachutes and reset experiments respectively. It's a long journey, but it should give me a heck of a lot of science and money. Mostly money, though. I'm running out of tech nodes I can unlock and that last upgrade cost is killer...

 

[mrklaw]

How do you do visual surveys that need fairly high altitude - have one that needs over 18,700m. Only have the basic jet engine unlocked in case that is a limitation. Attempted to strap booster rockets to a basic plane but that threw me out of control and burned off my tail plane

 

[Crispy75]

How do you do visual surveys at all without a super-tedious hour long flight? (the only option I can see is to send a separate suborbital rocket to each site)

 

[r1chard]

How do you do visual surveys that need fairly high altitude - have one that needs over 18,700m. Only have the basic jet engine unlocked in case that is a limitation. Attempted to strap booster rockets to a basic plane but that threw me out of control and burned off my tail plane

I've put a small fuel rocket engine in the middle, with a basic jet engine on each wing. I used the jets to get me as high as possible, pointing straight up in the zone and when I hit about 50m/s at about 8-9km (IIRC), I hit the jet. Basic staging, because I can't afford to buy the useful action key upgrade yet That got me well over the 18km (24km IIRC).

 

[mrklaw]

How do you do visual surveys at all without a super-tedious hour long flight? (the only option I can see is to send a separate suborbital rocket to each site)

The ones it gave me were all fairly close by. Certainly doable with time warp (although I can't hold altitude or course at 4x so need to go realtime to correct now and then). Surface EVA was annoying as you need to be much more precise than just 'entering the area' that works for the airborne ones.

I've put a small fuel rocket engine in the middle, with a basic jet engine on each wing. I used the jets to get me as high as possible, pointing straight up in the zone and when I hit about 50m/s at about 8-9km (IIRC), I hit the jet. Basic staging, because I can't afford to buy the useful action key upgrade yet That got me well over the 18km (24km IIRC).

Thanks, didn't think to try jets on the wings. So that'd be a small fuel tank with intake for air, then remove the liquid oxygen to save weight?

What handy action key btw?

 

[Birathen]

Ive been trying to get to the moon a while now and actually made it by accident while trying to complete two escape trajectory missions. The problem Im having is when I Tried the tutorial I had that Add manouver thingie while in space but I dont have it in career mode. I have upgraded the building once. Do I need to upgrade again to get it in careermode?


Edit: never mind Google saved me. Havent upgraded mission control. I can accidently go to The mun but I cant google properly. Im such a kerbal.

 

[Crispy75]

So that'd be a small fuel tank with intake for air, then remove the liquid oxygen to save weight?

I didn't think you could, until you unlock the fuel-only fuselage pieces?

 

[MacGurcules]

I didn't think you could, until you unlock the fuel-only fuselage pieces?

During construction, right click a fuel tank and you can adjust the slider for the amount of fuel or oxidizer in it.

 

[r1chard]

Did my first gravity brake today taking three tourists to Minmus

It's kinda hard to see, but the final Pe is on Kerbin.

Had a whiff of fuel left in the tank when I completed that maneuver.

Unfortunately, splashdown speed was 8.5m/s which was apparently enough to destroy the Hitckhiker the tourists were in (the heat shield below and all the probe-bits above the Hitchhiker survived though ...).

Saves me from having to try the "suborbital flight on the sun" that one of the tourists wanted...

Thanks, didn't think to try jets on the wings. So that'd be a small fuel tank with intake for air, then remove the liquid oxygen to save weight?

What handy action key btw?

I've got the proper fuselage tanks now, but yeah you could do that.

When you've unlocked the third level hangar and VAB you can create custom keybindings. This lets you toggle all your jet engines off and on, and close the intakes all in one keypress. Very handy.

 

[Crispy75]

So you're returning from minmus and using the mun to slow you down? Like a reverse slingshot, very nice

 

[WhirlwindMonk]

Unfortunately, splashdown speed was 8.5m/s which was apparently enough to destroy the Hitckhiker the tourists were in (the heat shield below and all the probe-bits above the Hitchhiker survived though ...).

I've also noticed that the Hitchhiker Can seems to be made of tissue paper and dreams. It's kind of frustrating that such a critical component for rescues and and tours seems to shatter so easily.

 

[Sarcasm]

Doing the second part of the tutorial, where it says use M and teleport..how do I do this? I don't see the icon it is talking about.

 

[GavinGT]

Doing the second part of the tutorial, where it says use M and teleport..how do I do this? I don't see the icon it is talking about.

the m key on your keyboard brings up map view. Then, left-click anywhere on the orbital path and select the option in the little pop-up menu to time-warp to that point. In that tutorial, I believe they want you to time-warp to apoapsis (the little "Ap" icon).

 

[Sarcasm]

the m key on your keyboard brings up map view. Then, left-click anywhere on the orbital path and select the option in the little menu to time-warp to that point.

When after pressing M..I don't see a line? Just empty space..I assume the line is going to be of color - like blue?

 

[GavinGT]

When after pressing M..I don't see a line? Just empty space..I assume the line is going to be of color - like blue?

Zoom in with the mouse wheel. And try adjusting the camera angle by holding down right-click and moving the mouse. The planet is probably obstructing your view of the orbital path.

 

[mrklaw]

I was just feeling really pleased with myself - trying out a mun flyby for the first time. Did the '12/4 o'clock' thing and I got a lovely intercept, which flew past the mun, grabbed some science, and put me on a course back to earth. At the apoapsis I burned a little bit to get the earth periapsis around 30km and dumped my last stage to coast home.

Except when I got to earth, my periapsis was 45km and I skipped off the atmosphere. I'm on my 3rd orbit now waiting for it to decay enough to snag me.

Does a return journey from mun need a lower periapsis because I'm coming in faster? Or did kerbin move by the time I got there?


edit: 6 orbits before I finally got back to the ground

I then took the same ship into orbit around the mun for another contract and landed it safely back home (bit low on fuel though). Quite a simple ship too - first stage 4xFLT400 tanks with a T30 engine and 4xLT10 solid rocket boosters, then 2xFLT400 and a terrier engine for the second stage, with a Science JR, MK1 command pod and various goo/thermometer/barometers stuck on it.

 

[Birathen]

First Mun flyby completed! Now to snag a few simpler missions on kerbal I neglected, splurge on science and then try a mun landing.

Is there any point to satellites other then its cool to build and deploy them?

 

[Grinchy]

When after pressing M..I don't see a line? Just empty space..I assume the line is going to be of color - like blue?

I had a ton of trouble with the tutorials when I tried them. They seemed buggy as hell. I don't know if you're having the same problem I was, but I had to keep restarting it until it didn't mess up.

It like pans the camera way back and doesn't give you control of anything if I remember right. The tutorials were doing all kinds of crazy things for me so I just jumped right into career mode.

 

[Sarcasm]

I had a ton of trouble with the tutorials when I tried them. They seemed buggy as hell. I don't know if you're having the same problem I was, but I had to keep restarting it until it didn't mess up.

It like pans the camera way back and doesn't give you control of anything if I remember right. The tutorials were doing all kinds of crazy things for me so I just jumped right into career mode.

Exactly what happened to me..but I skipped it. Worked flawlessly in the orbiting tut.

 

[WhirlwindMonk]

Except when I got to earth, my periapsis was 45km and I skipped off the atmosphere. I'm on my 3rd orbit now waiting for it to decay enough to snag me.

Does a return journey from mun need a lower periapsis because I'm coming in faster? Or did kerbin move by the time I got there?

30k is fine for a Mun return. The problem is, when you're that far away from Kerbin, even small pushes can have large impacts on the far side of your orbit. I'm guessing it was the small force from staging that pushed your periapsis out further. I've done the same thing, so my rule is that I always wait until I'm just barely in the atmosphere before dumping my last stage.

 

[Crispy75]

30k is fine for a Mun return. The problem is, when you're that far away from Kerbin, even small pushes can have large impacts on the far side of your orbit. I'm guessing it was the small force from staging that pushed your periapsis out further. I've done the same thing, so my rule is that I always wait until I'm just barely in the atmosphere before dumping my last stage.

Or orient your craft sideways so the staging force results in a tiny plane change rather than altering your periapsis

 

[Mengy]

Or orient your craft sideways so the staging force results in a tiny plane change rather than altering your periapsis

You could, but I always dump final stage in the atmosphere too. That ensures that the debris will de-orbit and not end up floating around in space.