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Kerbal Space Program |OT| 1.2 Loud and Clear - Comm Networks, New Fuel Flow and More
- Thread starter gutterboy44
- Start date
s_mirage
Member
Because the tech tree still sucks.
Don't get me wrong, I love the game, but this is not quite ready for a 1.0 release. They've changed too much without thorough testing in a public beta, and certain aspects of the game still need work.
I am with u here.... i am trying the career shit thing and they want me to do something is impassible to do with the part i have or maybe i am stupid who can't play this game
I had zero pitch and yaw, i think. Basically, the rocket just flipped over when i hit space bar and the solid fuel booster dropped off, and this happened whether the next rocket engine was activated at once or if i waited a bit, and regardless of thrust (couldn't control the direction really, as it had no control surfaces and no gimbaled engine and no reaction wheel unit).
Fins solved this. It is possible the rocket started leaning toward some direction by itself, but if so, it was extremely minor, which is why i wonder wtf happened.
I think i was under 10km and speed was under 340 m/s, the best the Thumper could do.
Ah, well, i got the rocket working so i don't need to think about it anymore really.
Yah, the game was certainly... rushed. I mean, none of the new features were in a beta build, and the tech tree and space center facility balancing are terrible.
I did manage to build a plane with the terrible part selection i had but it was rather ugly and unrealistic looking , and it lacked proper (or just makeshift) aerobrakes so i couldn't land it. Also, it didn't really respond to attempts to turn it, rather it just preferred gliding the direction it had been going...
Oh, and the thing was far more expensive than a rocket of similar size.
Not sure i could have done better though, the part selection being what it is.
The only reason i actually even thought about making a plane was because there was a survey contract very close to the space center, figured a plane would work for it better.
Indeed, the aircraft parts are baffling, since there is no use for them that early in the game, not really. The parts, especially the command parts, are expensive.
Until you can start building space planes, what's the point of aircraft? None as far as i can determine in the base game.
Right, so the mission system is broken as hell, and the tech tree is goddamn hard to unlock. How did this game get 96/100? Did they only play sandbox (which I've stuck to until trying out 1.0).
I've taken a contract to rescue a kerbal from orbit. No sweat, I've done this sort of thing before (having stranded them up there myself
... except I'm current stuck with a tech tree that has no RCS. OK, no sweat, I just need to get close... and my kerbals have no EVA jetpacks, Ugh, ok, I could try docking with no RCS ... no, wait, I have a better idea, I'm going to GNAW MY FINGERS OFF INSTEAD it'll be more satisfying.
Never mind that a bunch of the other missions worth anything are either:
1. ferry passengers into orbit, with no reasonable way to actually get them there AND BACK SAFELY, or
2. land on the Mun with no equipment to actually do so, or
3. take EVA samples around the place with no fucking LADDER to get back in the craft afterwards. WTF.
Sorry, folks, I love this game (170 hours now and counting) but that career mode needs some serious fixing
I've taken a contract to rescue a kerbal from orbit. No sweat, I've done this sort of thing before (having stranded them up there myself
... except I'm current stuck with a tech tree that has no RCS. OK, no sweat, I just need to get close... and my kerbals have no EVA jetpacks, Ugh, ok, I could try docking with no RCS ... no, wait, I have a better idea, I'm going to GNAW MY FINGERS OFF INSTEAD it'll be more satisfying.Never mind that a bunch of the other missions worth anything are either:
1. ferry passengers into orbit, with no reasonable way to actually get them there AND BACK SAFELY, or
2. land on the Mun with no equipment to actually do so, or
3. take EVA samples around the place with no fucking LADDER to get back in the craft afterwards. WTF.
Sorry, folks, I love this game (170 hours now and counting) but that career mode needs some serious fixing
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I don't really understand the complaints about the tech tree and missions, I'm having a blast and not seeing any issues. I mean sure you get missions that you can't complete yet at times, so let them sit and do other ones until you have the tech to do them. Or, just play the old way and explore doing science? Missions have very long durations, so it's not like you have to do them as fast as possible.
Seems to be just fine to me...?
Seems to be just fine to me...?
Right, so the mission system is broken as hell, and the tech tree is goddamn hard to unlock. How did this game get 96/100? Did they only play sandbox (which I've stuck to until trying out 1.0).
I've taken a contract to rescue a kerbal from orbit. No sweat, I've done this sort of thing before (having stranded them up there myself
Never mind that a bunch of the other missions worth anything are either:
1. ferry passengers into orbit, with no reasonable way to actually get them there AND BACK SAFELY, or
2. land on the Mun with no equipment to actually do so, or
3. take EVA samples around the place with no fucking LADDER to get back in the craft afterwards. WTF.
Sorry, folks, I love this game (170 hours now and counting) but that career mode needs some serious fixing
Just pay and upgrade the station that gives you EVA's. It's not expensive to unlock at all. I managed to unlock it on Normal really early on.
Why are contracts that are practically impossible with to complete (or very difficult, meaning payout is not good) with current tech level offered? Bad design, especially for newer players.
Or why am i being offered a contract to fly by the Mun when i haven't done anything but to put stuff to low-orbit. I'm not even sure i can build a rocket that can escape from Kerbin's SOI with my current available tech.
Why is the tech tree so illogically arranged? It makes early game difficult, learning the game difficult.
And the way the tech tree is arranged, it makes making pleasant looking looking rockets and planes rather difficult. Everything i made before i had correct parts of my S-2 rocket looked terrible and unrealistic. Not fun.
As i said before, i can play with this. It is just not really fun, thus the complaints. The career feels really rushed and unfinished mode.
Contracts and tech tree should easy a player into new concepts, teach them. Also, they should be patterned after realistic rocket programs:
Ballistic rockets, then sub-orbital, then orbiting. Then satellites, orbital rendezvous. Tourists fit either point rather well in KSP even though they haven't started happening but lately IRL. After these, polar orbits, perhaps.
THEN long-range probes, escaping Kerbin SOI and Mun fly-bys.
And so on. And at some point, a divergent line would be provided for aircraft, which later ties into space flight by introducing space planes (first multi-stage, then single-stage).
Such system would give an easier start, while adding challenges as you play.
The current system is more or less messed up and opposite to what is should be.
EDIT Oh, and the base facilities are fucking terrible. The price jumps are ridiculous, while the benefits are quite odd. Second-stage launch platform/VAB is pretty much good enough for most rockets, and thus the final stage does not offer much benefit. I saw someone suggesting breaking them up to 5 levels, which would allow more gradual progression. A very good idea.
Playing the old way is fucking boring when you've done that for years. I'd like to finally play the game with progression system. (No, Science mode is no good either.)
And the game is missing logical parts: Two-man capsule (and a plane cockpit, having two different cockpits looks stupid), proper radiator parts. These two really should be included with all the new changes and additions.
(And while at it, add a proper Mk. III nose cone part.)
jchap
Member
Right, so the mission system is broken as hell, and the tech tree is goddamn hard to unlock. How did this game get 96/100? Did they only play sandbox (which I've stuck to until trying out 1.0).
I've taken a contract to rescue a kerbal from orbit. No sweat, I've done this sort of thing before (having stranded them up there myself
Never mind that a bunch of the other missions worth anything are either:
1. ferry passengers into orbit, with no reasonable way to actually get them there AND BACK SAFELY, or
2. land on the Mun with no equipment to actually do so, or
3. take EVA samples around the place with no fucking LADDER to get back in the craft afterwards. WTF.
Sorry, folks, I love this game (170 hours now and counting) but that career mode needs some serious fixing
You can just get near the stranded guy and switch to him with the [ key if I recall. Then you just EVA fly him to your ship. You don't even have to unlock EVA to do that.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Well, maybe the game just isn't for you and you should go play something else. I'm enjoying myself immensely. KSP is a sandbox game, not an RPG with a focused driven storyline. You make your own adventures as you go along, the missions are simply there to give you goals to strive for, and yes you can wait to do them whenever you want or are able to. If you are too impatient to do that then possibly a sandbox style game isn't your cup of tea?
IMHO the tech tree and missions are just fine the way they are.
KSP is just about the only newer game i like anymore. It is the only sufficiently realistic scifi game i know that is also fun.
But i have played the fucking sandbox mode for so long... i cannot even remember when i bought the game, but i do know back then the game had nothing but the sandbox mode.
I am just so damn bored with the sandbox mode, i can do whatever i like with it with no limits. Which is the issue, i don't have to think nor have no limits. I build something and tweak it until it works, and then i get bored with that, because there's nothing to use my rocket (or device or whatever) for.
A bit like Minecraft really. I essentially stopped playing that game the moment they added the hunger mechanic, because it ate all the fun from survival mode and is frustrating (i'd expect a survival mode to be about surviving anyway, not about farming food). Not because i cannot do it, but rather because it distracts me from the good aspects of the mode. If it were different, perhaps i'd accept it, but it is not...
Yet sandbox mode makes everything too easy. Not fun to play either.
I want a right mix of challenge and ease of playing. And the more challenging, the better, as long as there is no frustration involved. Or requirement for violation of common sense and my sense of aesthetics (how i hated lack of fairings in previous KSP versions).
A well designed tech system and career and whatever else would be fun, i'd enjoy such immensely. Unfortunately they're pretty bad, and worse, frustrating.
Merely fixing the tech tree would help...
And as it is, it looks like i have to do that myself, as i can't find any modder-made tech trees (for unmodded games, there's the CTT but it does not modify existing tree), and waiting for Squad to do anything takes months at best.
*sigh*
EDIT My MC comparison is overtly simplistic though, and MC has far more other things that eventually turned me away from that game.
KSP is a fun game, despite that one small issue.
As i think of this, the whole idea of unlocking parts with science is a wrong.
I try to sketch a new tech tree but it doesn't really make things more meaningful, because a lot depends on the space center facilities as well.
And there's the end to consider. What do i do when i hit the end point of the tech tree? As an open-ended game, there is no "science victory"... yet arguably a second playthrough does not mix things up, unlike say, a Civilization game, or SimCity (the old ones, as different place to build the city affects the game).
Perhaps there should be a reason to start again as well. Solar system randomization might be effective but in a way, not really ideal.
Perhaps the parts should be unlocked based on your reputation, space center level, and paying for them. Something like, the basic VAB gives you access to all the basic rocket parts, the small-sized ones (and if "barn-yard" tier is added, that could be only simplest things like sounding rockets or such). Second level gives you the Rockomax parts and the third level gives the Saturn-like parts. Small probe parts, engines are gained from upgraded science facilities.
Science should be for something else, probably required for upgrading the space center... and for something else?
Or perhaps science should be a goal, kind of scoring. The more science you do, the higher the score.
As it is, the concept is kind of odd actually, because you use parts to get science, and then science to get parts... it is a back-forth, and does not really involve the other resources (or they're only a drop in the bucket).
A mistake really, all the mechanics should support each other. A feature should not exists just because, it should have a purpose.
EDIT Someone said this at KSP forums: "Career doesn't feel like a progression at all, it just feels like randomly unlocking parts." So very true.
I try to sketch a new tech tree but it doesn't really make things more meaningful, because a lot depends on the space center facilities as well.
And there's the end to consider. What do i do when i hit the end point of the tech tree? As an open-ended game, there is no "science victory"... yet arguably a second playthrough does not mix things up, unlike say, a Civilization game, or SimCity (the old ones, as different place to build the city affects the game).
Perhaps there should be a reason to start again as well. Solar system randomization might be effective but in a way, not really ideal.
Perhaps the parts should be unlocked based on your reputation, space center level, and paying for them. Something like, the basic VAB gives you access to all the basic rocket parts, the small-sized ones (and if "barn-yard" tier is added, that could be only simplest things like sounding rockets or such). Second level gives you the Rockomax parts and the third level gives the Saturn-like parts. Small probe parts, engines are gained from upgraded science facilities.
Science should be for something else, probably required for upgrading the space center... and for something else?
Or perhaps science should be a goal, kind of scoring. The more science you do, the higher the score.
As it is, the concept is kind of odd actually, because you use parts to get science, and then science to get parts... it is a back-forth, and does not really involve the other resources (or they're only a drop in the bucket).
A mistake really, all the mechanics should support each other. A feature should not exists just because, it should have a purpose.
EDIT Someone said this at KSP forums: "Career doesn't feel like a progression at all, it just feels like randomly unlocking parts." So very true.
Wow this game! This might be my GOTY!
Sorry about the frustrations people are having with the career mode. I just played for the first time last night and put in six straight hours. I didn't play any of the previous iterations so I was blown away by the sheer addictive nature of this game. Ignorance is bliss?
So glad my friend basically forced me to buy the game last night.
Sorry about the frustrations people are having with the career mode. I just played for the first time last night and put in six straight hours. I didn't play any of the previous iterations so I was blown away by the sheer addictive nature of this game. Ignorance is bliss?
So glad my friend basically forced me to buy the game last night.
gutterboy44
Member
Wow, some of you KSP "vets" are being ridiculously stubborn and a bit whiny about career mode. Is perfect? Probably not. Is it broken? Not even close. I feel like you guys are entirely missing the point. Stop trying to build the same rockets you have always built and learn to use what you have unlocked smartly. That is the entire point of career mode!! The idea is to restrict you from having everything you need to make the same old "ideal" rockets from the start. Career mode would turn into sandbox mode in a hour if it was designed around the complaints I see here, giving all suitable parts in big lumps right off the bat. You know why the Thermoletric Generator is a final node? Because it makes power generation stupid easy. Managing power is a fun early challenge. The only tweak I 100% agree with is making one liquid fuel fuselage part of the first aviation node. The next node does have them, so if you want to start making planes you should probably plan ahead. But yeah, you need a fuselage to even built a little puddle jumper air plane to explore kerbin with. It is smart to have a lot of the space plane parts deep in the tech tree because building and flying spaceplanes is a much more advanced task than getting rockets in to orbit.
The contracts are also handled really well for early missions. First off, you don't need RCS to do any of the rescue missions. Some of you seem hell bent on needing to build exactly what you want to do a mission instead of problem solving with what you have. Have you forgotten your KSP roots? This is the essence of this game, if career mode didn't provide a path to encourage problem solving and resource management, it would've been a colossal failure on their part. For a rescue mission, just get close, switch to the stranded kerbal, and EVA over back to your ship. Oh no but I don't have the three man capsule! This game is so broken!! Or you know, get creative and put one Mk1 on top of another. You can stack 4 without issue and make a KSP anal bead express capsule to shuttle around hoards of tourists before you've even begun to unlock the tech tree. This is KSP, it is all about wonky solutions!! The adjective "kerbal" is now used to describe building something that works in a precarious, if not dangerous way. It is the absolute essence of this game and why it is so brilliant. Problem solve, don't whinge that you don't have exactly the parts you think you need.
Regarding contracts that are offered to you but you don't feel like you are capable of doing them yet; Did you consider the fact that it is smart to give players a next step to strive toward? If you think you can't do the Mun encounter, maybe you would then want to consider your next tech node unlock to help accomplish that. The expiration date on the major contract missions are crazy long. The contract isn't going anywhere but it gives early/first time players a nice road map. Contracts are also tied to reputation. So if you keep grinding reputation, you will start getting more ambitious contracts, even if you have only dabbled in LKO.
The game does a great job of balancing repeatable contracts to keep revenue flowing as well as giving you contracts to point you towards new destinations and most importantly heaps of science. Squad has also said it has always been imporant to them to keep the Kerbals front and center and that they didn't want to turn early career mode into nothing but probes and satellites for the first few hours. If science feels like a grind, you probably haven't been to the Mun or Minmus yet. I made this exact mistake, and as soon as I even did a Mun fly by, I was able to get a huge jump in science that allowed me to unlock more than enough for a well built lander to pile on even more science. Oh yeah, and about being able to even fly by the Mun early game..
It is really easy to do a Mun encounter in early career. No bizarre min/max cheats, no crazy explosive staging because you have no stack decoupler. You can build a very normal looking craft with basic staging principles. All you need to unlock is the first 4 tech nodes for the whopping cost of 48 science total. If you know how to do science, you probably can get that in your first two launches of career mode. So your third craft built in KSP career can easily achieve a Mun flyby. I don't recall my Mun fly contracts appearing until many flights in to career mode. To prove this point, I designed a simple ship in 5 minutes that only uses the parts available after unlocking the first 4 tech nodes. I didn't even test it it was so basic. My first launch of the ship was a successful Mun encounter, not even a quick save was required.
Here is Mun 4 Dummies. Nothing fancy here. Swivel main engine with thumper SRBs, Reliant booster engines, and a Reliant final stage.
Launch was uneventful, able to follow a near ideal launch profile.
Established 78Km Ae, and then burned enough to get a 58Km Pe. Saved a bit of fuel by not circularizing. I then burned for the Mun.(Yo don't have to circularize your orbit for Mun encounter if you plan your launch window) Just needed a rough encounter. Then do a burn adjustment once you escape Kerbin. Look at that, Mun encounter with a free return. Thanks gravity!
Oh hai Mun. I can haz science?
Fuck heat shields y'all, don't even need those early on. Use my engine as a heat shield.
Jeb home safe and sound. Mun encounter complete, all for the low cost of 48 science.
I encourage you guys to go back to your KSP roots, think outside the box,and use your KSP experience to your advantage. It is impressive to me that career mode is both manageable for first time players and challenging for experienced players. For you guys with +100 hours in, you shouldn't even need maneuver nodes to establish an orbit. Heck, you shouldn't even need them for a Mun encounter. If you want to constantly build the exact ship you desire without compromising your design at all, that mode is called sandbox. Personally, I think the career mode has been brilliant and I love the fact that it has forced me to learn new things again in KSP, even if it is the basics. I can build Mun landers and launchers in my sleep in sandbox mode, I have done it dozens and dozens of times. But achieving Mun missions with limited resources in career mode has been a very rewarding experience all over again. Drop those old bad habits and experiment again!
The contracts are also handled really well for early missions. First off, you don't need RCS to do any of the rescue missions. Some of you seem hell bent on needing to build exactly what you want to do a mission instead of problem solving with what you have. Have you forgotten your KSP roots? This is the essence of this game, if career mode didn't provide a path to encourage problem solving and resource management, it would've been a colossal failure on their part. For a rescue mission, just get close, switch to the stranded kerbal, and EVA over back to your ship. Oh no but I don't have the three man capsule! This game is so broken!! Or you know, get creative and put one Mk1 on top of another. You can stack 4 without issue and make a KSP anal bead express capsule to shuttle around hoards of tourists before you've even begun to unlock the tech tree. This is KSP, it is all about wonky solutions!! The adjective "kerbal" is now used to describe building something that works in a precarious, if not dangerous way. It is the absolute essence of this game and why it is so brilliant. Problem solve, don't whinge that you don't have exactly the parts you think you need.
Regarding contracts that are offered to you but you don't feel like you are capable of doing them yet; Did you consider the fact that it is smart to give players a next step to strive toward? If you think you can't do the Mun encounter, maybe you would then want to consider your next tech node unlock to help accomplish that. The expiration date on the major contract missions are crazy long. The contract isn't going anywhere but it gives early/first time players a nice road map. Contracts are also tied to reputation. So if you keep grinding reputation, you will start getting more ambitious contracts, even if you have only dabbled in LKO.
The game does a great job of balancing repeatable contracts to keep revenue flowing as well as giving you contracts to point you towards new destinations and most importantly heaps of science. Squad has also said it has always been imporant to them to keep the Kerbals front and center and that they didn't want to turn early career mode into nothing but probes and satellites for the first few hours. If science feels like a grind, you probably haven't been to the Mun or Minmus yet. I made this exact mistake, and as soon as I even did a Mun fly by, I was able to get a huge jump in science that allowed me to unlock more than enough for a well built lander to pile on even more science. Oh yeah, and about being able to even fly by the Mun early game..
It is really easy to do a Mun encounter in early career. No bizarre min/max cheats, no crazy explosive staging because you have no stack decoupler. You can build a very normal looking craft with basic staging principles. All you need to unlock is the first 4 tech nodes for the whopping cost of 48 science total. If you know how to do science, you probably can get that in your first two launches of career mode. So your third craft built in KSP career can easily achieve a Mun flyby. I don't recall my Mun fly contracts appearing until many flights in to career mode. To prove this point, I designed a simple ship in 5 minutes that only uses the parts available after unlocking the first 4 tech nodes. I didn't even test it it was so basic. My first launch of the ship was a successful Mun encounter, not even a quick save was required.
Here is Mun 4 Dummies. Nothing fancy here. Swivel main engine with thumper SRBs, Reliant booster engines, and a Reliant final stage.
Launch was uneventful, able to follow a near ideal launch profile.
Established 78Km Ae, and then burned enough to get a 58Km Pe. Saved a bit of fuel by not circularizing. I then burned for the Mun.(Yo don't have to circularize your orbit for Mun encounter if you plan your launch window) Just needed a rough encounter. Then do a burn adjustment once you escape Kerbin. Look at that, Mun encounter with a free return. Thanks gravity!
Oh hai Mun. I can haz science?
Fuck heat shields y'all, don't even need those early on. Use my engine as a heat shield.
Jeb home safe and sound. Mun encounter complete, all for the low cost of 48 science.
I encourage you guys to go back to your KSP roots, think outside the box,and use your KSP experience to your advantage. It is impressive to me that career mode is both manageable for first time players and challenging for experienced players. For you guys with +100 hours in, you shouldn't even need maneuver nodes to establish an orbit. Heck, you shouldn't even need them for a Mun encounter. If you want to constantly build the exact ship you desire without compromising your design at all, that mode is called sandbox. Personally, I think the career mode has been brilliant and I love the fact that it has forced me to learn new things again in KSP, even if it is the basics. I can build Mun landers and launchers in my sleep in sandbox mode, I have done it dozens and dozens of times. But achieving Mun missions with limited resources in career mode has been a very rewarding experience all over again. Drop those old bad habits and experiment again!
I agree with you Gutterboy. The career mode has been fun as hell for me and trying to figure out how to do stuff with limited resources has been rewarding. I am about to attempt my first Mun landing and it should be exciting.
Anyway you are a genius with this tip
I was trying to figure out how to attempt the rescue missions, but was coming up with nothing. I will try this method soon.
Anyway you are a genius with this tip
I was trying to figure out how to attempt the rescue missions, but was coming up with nothing. I will try this method soon.
gutterboy44
Member
Another tip is use that same craft with a stack of Mk1 capsules and fill it with a bunch of your own crew and get them all leveled up to level 1 with by establishing orbit. This allows you to have a pilot on board for free SAS while leveling up your engineers and scientists. Keep revising your Mk1 anal bead express as you unlock new nodes and you can fire it around the Mun and Minmus to level up groups of kerbals before you unlock any of the larger capsules or crew cabins.
WhirlwindMonk
Banned
Generally well said. I do think there are some noteable problems with the current tech tree. For example, sometimes having to grab 2-3 tech nodes before anything in those nodes are useful feels needlessly grindy. For example, what good does unlocking just 2.5m tanks or just 2.5 meter engines do? Those two nodes should instead be something more like "Small Heavy Rockets" and "Medium Heavy Rockets" with the first giving you the small 2.5m tank and the Poodle and the latter giving you the medium 2.5m tank and the Skipper, or something like that. By requiring you to get both for either to be useful, it's effectively putting a 180 science node in the 90 science tier, which hurt progression.
But really, I just think some rearrangement and some cost rebalancing is all that's needed. It's not bad as-is, but there is room for it to be noticeably better.
And as far as the rescue missions, if you don't want your ship to look like a giant sex-toy, Flight Control in the 45 tier gives you the Mk1 In-Line. Heck, it's what I still use for rescue missions, despite having techs in the 300 tier, since it's so much cheaper to launch 1.25m rockers than 2.5.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Oh man, I think Minecraft started getting really good once they put the hunger mechanic in. It finally gave us a reason to farm food.
Yeah, you and I just have very different tastes when it comes to game design. I think Minecraft and KSP are both great games just the way they are and I've sunk dozens of hours into both (hundreds into Minecraft).
I don't think you will ever be happy with career mode in KSP, you want it to be something it isn't.
Not sure why i should consider contracts that jump from "Get to orbit" to "go around the Mun". There's quite a leap between those two things.
I could do it... I haven't bothered yet because my sense of progression says "Do some orbital stuff next, now that you're there".
Unfortunately, the game offers nothing for that. (Sub-orbital parts tests don't count. Besides, they're time consuming and boring, and funds are not an issue at the moment. Easy enough to do though with my current rocket though.)
The game doesn't offer me any rescue missions. What are the prerequisites for that?
Not that i'd do them with stupid looking rockets that include stacked pods or inline cockpits, those don't fit rockets at all. Wonky solutions don't have to include "looks idiotic", i recall one rocket i made doing a flip while going to space and ending up orbiting the planet just fine. That's wonky, very kerbal, but the rocket looked like a real rocket.
I see nothing wrong with this attitude either, why should i not be allowed to have preferences how things look, or play by them? Visual customization of player characters is so very popular and common nowadays, i see these two things analogous.
The contract system would be fine if they add some intermediate steps (satellites, space stations), and/or parts to deal with some of them.
And I see no point in taking a contract i won't do right away with the small limit (2 or 7, depending on the stage), besides, it isn't vanishing anytime soon either (or keeps being offered again and again).
I agree that picking one is a good road map for a new player perhaps. But I'd prefer something else in the mean time, a Mun-visit is in my goals anyway, when it is its time, don't need a contract for too early.
So, okay, having long-term contracts offered is OK. Now give me something more immediate, with good science reward.
"I don't recall my Mun fly contracts appearing until many flights in to career mode."
I wonder if the game tracks flights and starts offering stuff based on that? I made like a 5-10 flights before unlocking the first tech node, because i had each kerbonaut fly at least once for the XP, and because i attempted getting some of the "world first" records.
And more or less repeated that amount of flights after buying one tech node...
Farming was utterly uninteresting and pointless to me before but wasn't necessary, so i didn't do it. Yes, it is good it gained a purpose. Now could they make it less frustrating and time consuming...
I could do it... I haven't bothered yet because my sense of progression says "Do some orbital stuff next, now that you're there".
Unfortunately, the game offers nothing for that. (Sub-orbital parts tests don't count. Besides, they're time consuming and boring, and funds are not an issue at the moment. Easy enough to do though with my current rocket though.)
The game doesn't offer me any rescue missions. What are the prerequisites for that?
Not that i'd do them with stupid looking rockets that include stacked pods or inline cockpits, those don't fit rockets at all. Wonky solutions don't have to include "looks idiotic", i recall one rocket i made doing a flip while going to space and ending up orbiting the planet just fine. That's wonky, very kerbal, but the rocket looked like a real rocket.
I see nothing wrong with this attitude either, why should i not be allowed to have preferences how things look, or play by them? Visual customization of player characters is so very popular and common nowadays, i see these two things analogous.
The contract system would be fine if they add some intermediate steps (satellites, space stations), and/or parts to deal with some of them.
And I see no point in taking a contract i won't do right away with the small limit (2 or 7, depending on the stage), besides, it isn't vanishing anytime soon either (or keeps being offered again and again).
I agree that picking one is a good road map for a new player perhaps. But I'd prefer something else in the mean time, a Mun-visit is in my goals anyway, when it is its time, don't need a contract for too early.
So, okay, having long-term contracts offered is OK. Now give me something more immediate, with good science reward.
"I don't recall my Mun fly contracts appearing until many flights in to career mode."
I wonder if the game tracks flights and starts offering stuff based on that? I made like a 5-10 flights before unlocking the first tech node, because i had each kerbonaut fly at least once for the XP, and because i attempted getting some of the "world first" records.
And more or less repeated that amount of flights after buying one tech node...
Sure, it started getting good things. Unfortunately, i found the mechanic so damn frustrating it drove me away. Even though just about every other addition was great.
Farming was utterly uninteresting and pointless to me before but wasn't necessary, so i didn't do it. Yes, it is good it gained a purpose. Now could they make it less frustrating and time consuming...
Reputation is another badly designed system, i think. Or perhaps not badly, just lacking.
Because it is just kind of there.
The "reward", strategies, seem kind of meh really. The only one of any value for me is the science one, and even it looks kind of pointless, given the low value of the science it provides. (And increasing commitment doesn't make much better.)
I have no need for additional funds at the moment, and i have no need for additional reputation, because it doesn't offer anything worthwhile (unless i am missing some aspect of the system? If so, it is not intuitive enough, or the game doesn't state it anywhere.).
It should tie better to other aspects of the game, like if you had high reputation, you'd get better contracts, discounts, better kerbonauts... well, something tangible and always useful stuff.
Perhaps require having enough reputation to be able to upgrade the space center?
I feel feel the systems the career mode have lack... inter-connectedness. And lacking sense of progression, of needing stuff.
EDIT I really like the cash management part of the career, and contracts are as a concept nice (quest system, so to speak), but the rest... :/
EDIT Is there any mod that gives doing science some point in sandbox mode, or makes science do something else in career (and removes tech tree)? Would solve my issues with the game, for now. I want do the science stuff with some actual effect that isn't having to deal with the piss-poor tech tree.
Would gladly keep funds and contracts as well if possible...
Because it is just kind of there.
The "reward", strategies, seem kind of meh really. The only one of any value for me is the science one, and even it looks kind of pointless, given the low value of the science it provides. (And increasing commitment doesn't make much better.)
I have no need for additional funds at the moment, and i have no need for additional reputation, because it doesn't offer anything worthwhile (unless i am missing some aspect of the system? If so, it is not intuitive enough, or the game doesn't state it anywhere.).
It should tie better to other aspects of the game, like if you had high reputation, you'd get better contracts, discounts, better kerbonauts... well, something tangible and always useful stuff.
Perhaps require having enough reputation to be able to upgrade the space center?
I feel feel the systems the career mode have lack... inter-connectedness. And lacking sense of progression, of needing stuff.
EDIT I really like the cash management part of the career, and contracts are as a concept nice (quest system, so to speak), but the rest... :/
EDIT Is there any mod that gives doing science some point in sandbox mode, or makes science do something else in career (and removes tech tree)? Would solve my issues with the game, for now. I want do the science stuff with some actual effect that isn't having to deal with the piss-poor tech tree.
Would gladly keep funds and contracts as well if possible...
There's no jetpack though - how do you move a kerbal from one ship to the other without a jetpack?
Edit: Oh, I did a Mun encounter easily enough, though unfortunately Valentina burned up in a fiery explosion on the way back because I didn't realise the command pod doesn't have an ablative shield built in (and when I tried it the shield was wonky and unusable). Oddly, Valentina re-appeared in my roster magically once I accepted a rescue mission.
Edit 2: OK, so on googling some more, I find that I'm *supposed* to have jetpacks from the very start of EVA. Except hitting R all I damn well liked during that mission it didn't activate. I've also noticed that sometimes when I'm out in orbit I can't context-menu the command pod to perform crew surveys etc. I think I might have just hit Yet Another Bug :/
WhirlwindMonk
Banned
Personally, I don't think the in-line cockpits look stupid. A little silly and cobbled together, but that's very "Kerbal" in my mind. I won't deny that a 2-body container, like a 1.25m Hitchhiker Canister would be a decent addition, but "I have no options to do this!" "Yes you do, you have at least two." "Well those look dumb, I refuse to use them." feels a bit like complaining just to complain. You're allowed to have preferences, but on the grand scheme of things "My rescue ships look silly for the first 25% of the start of a space program" seems really like a really minor thing to complain about.
Definitely agree with you here. I think higher reputation might get you more lucrative contracts, but I'm not 100% sure on that. Too low of reputation (along with no money) I think is the game's lose condition. But aside from not going too low, and when you have a ton, trading it for money or science, rep really seems like a useless mechanic. On the whole, all three "currencies" could be implemented better, with money being the most solid at current and rep being the least.
Do you let go of the ladder before hitting R? Probably, but sometimes it's the silliest things that get overlooked. Though if you're having other issues, you're right, it might be a bug. Have you made sure to upgrade to the 1.02 patch?
At any difficulty below Hard, dead kerbals respawn after a short bit.
Ah, you've got me doubting myself now. I'm pretty sure I would have, but it's been a long time since I last played KSP seriously - a couple of years maybe? I kinda tapped out on the game once I got the Master Kerbalnaut tag on reddit challenges
Oh, that's kinda morbid. I wish they didn't :/ They also don't respawn on Moderate - maybe I should be playing on that... (because no revert on Hard? get real
So once you figure out how to mine science from around the place things become a little easier. Flying a plane around with a half a dozen thermometers stuck to it, sampling air temperature, for example. Returning data can be a bit of a drag - especially when you need to get the materials science lab back in one piece from each place you run the experiment (thus requiring multiple trips to the Mun just to get its non-landed samples). It'd be nice if transmitting the results didn't lose so much science value. Actually, even better would be if the equipment could take (and hold) multiple samples - so we still have to transport the lab back to Kerbin, just not quite so many times
WhirlwindMonk
Banned
So once you figure out how to mine science from around the place things become a little easier. Flying a plane around with a half a dozen thermometers stuck to it, sampling air temperature, for example. Returning data can be a bit of a drag - especially when you need to get the materials science lab back in one piece from each place you run the experiment (thus requiring multiple trips to the Mun just to get its non-landed samples). It'd be nice if transmitting the results didn't lose so much science value. Actually, even better would be if the equipment could take (and hold) multiple samples - so we still have to transport the lab back to Kerbin, just not quite so many times
You don't have to bring any equipment back with you. Kerbals on EVA can remove the data from the experiment and bring it back with them in the command pod. Without a scientist, you can still only do the Science Jr. once per lab you bring, but at least you don't have to worry about getting it back safely.
It's the age-old story, got Jeb to the Mun for some Science and didn't have enough fuel for the return trip. Luckily the science he WAS able to transmit was enough to get some probe cores and the hitchhiker storage container.
Rescue One was therefore created with the still-working asparagus staging and a kinda portly Mun Lander with the larger Rockomax fuel tanks and Poodle engine. Mun insertion was successful and I even managed to land within 1km of the stranded Jeb. Not the easiest maneuvering as I had no reaction wheels or RCS to assist but minimal thrust was able to give enough turning when needed. Definitely something to remember on my next ships though when I get enough science to unlock RCS at least.
Regardless Jeb was but a quick hop and jetpack away from his freedom and he collected the physical science data for his return. After an uneventful trip home he's now lounging somewhere drinking a kerbaltini awaiting his next mission.
I'm finding 20km Periapsis gives enough aerobraking for my returns so far. Big ol Ablator on bottom of the hitchhiker barely took heat damage
I'm also liking probes for sending out in deep space for basic science tasks =] Will be nice to try out the tiny probe engines and see how they fare better than the Terrier. I remember the Ion drive being nice though foolishly I had tried using it for Munar insertion, that went poorly.
Rescue One was therefore created with the still-working asparagus staging and a kinda portly Mun Lander with the larger Rockomax fuel tanks and Poodle engine. Mun insertion was successful and I even managed to land within 1km of the stranded Jeb. Not the easiest maneuvering as I had no reaction wheels or RCS to assist but minimal thrust was able to give enough turning when needed. Definitely something to remember on my next ships though when I get enough science to unlock RCS at least.
Regardless Jeb was but a quick hop and jetpack away from his freedom and he collected the physical science data for his return. After an uneventful trip home he's now lounging somewhere drinking a kerbaltini awaiting his next mission.
I'm finding 20km Periapsis gives enough aerobraking for my returns so far. Big ol Ablator on bottom of the hitchhiker barely took heat damage
I'm also liking probes for sending out in deep space for basic science tasks =] Will be nice to try out the tiny probe engines and see how they fare better than the Terrier. I remember the Ion drive being nice though foolishly I had tried using it for Munar insertion, that went poorly.
Oh! I had no idea! (How did you discover that?)
WhirlwindMonk
Banned
Either I read it on the wiki or discovered it completely by accident. Either way, it's dang helpful with the new aero, with how much harder it is to safely get big stuff back onto Kerbin.
DiscoShark
Banned
Yeah I was just about to comment about this actually, I feel like re-entry was far less forgiving when 1.0 originally came out but they patched it to make it easier again. Kinda sucks.
I still get parachutes destroyed when that happens. Maybe I just come in
MacGurcules
Member
Just did my first Mun orbit (had to do some excessive maneuvers to land a stable parking orbit, so I had to abort the landing). My return trajectory was kinda stupid. Plotted in a transfer orbit with a periapsis of like 8000 meters and just rode it straight in. Tore up my first chute by opening it too soon. Luckily I had a backup. Felt pretty hardcore when that splashed down.
Welp having difficulty getting my latest creation back home. Blasted off and randomly started doing maneuvers until I got a 'hit' which happened to be Duna, blasted off for Science and managed to get a return encounter with Kerbin except now I'm short like 400 dV to get hit it like a lawndart. Used all my RCS monoprop and even tried pushing from EVA but I think I'm just making my ship spin more -_-. I want that damned science!
Update:
Success! I let my ship orbit around the sun and tweaked the approach to Kerbin from the far side to save dV, worked like a charm and had plenty leftover! Over 300 Science for that jaunt, excellent.
Update:
Success! I let my ship orbit around the sun and tweaked the approach to Kerbin from the far side to save dV, worked like a charm and had plenty leftover! Over 300 Science for that jaunt, excellent.
The OP convinced me to finally throw down the money on this game. I've unlocked the first two layers of the tech tree, gotten up to ~20 km of altitude and returned safely (I hit orbit once but my captain didn't survive because I didn't have a heat shield, so I reverted that), and upgraded my launch pad (which was driving me nuts- all the restrictions for the first one really had me wondering how I was going to hit orbit- managed to, but the part limitation was a serious annoyance). Now that my mass, size, and part limits are no longer a problem, hitting orbit reliably and getting my Kerbals back should be relatively easy.
I wish the game did a better job of explaining how to acquire science. Even after reading guides I'm still not exactly sure how it works (other than get reports from doing things you haven't done before and do certain contracts).
Is there a way to make sure things snap perfectly symmetrical? Because that was a major annoyance.
I wish the game did a better job of explaining how to acquire science. Even after reading guides I'm still not exactly sure how it works (other than get reports from doing things you haven't done before and do certain contracts).
Is there a way to make sure things snap perfectly symmetrical? Because that was a major annoyance.
WhirlwindMonk
Banned
Yes, there are 2, 3, 4, 6, and 8 part symmetry modes. You can cycle through them by clicking the button below the parts list or by pressing the x key.
In case you sent aware, there's also angle snap. Toggle it on and if by clicking the other button below the parts list or by pressing the c key. You can also hold... Shift, I think it is and it will snap to a smaller angle.
I know, I know, just posting a link from reddit to an imgur album. How droll.
But seriously, I lost it over this album - I hope you also enjoy it
"Goddard was right! or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love 1.02."
Tonight, I discovered the goldmine that was EVA reports on a trip to the Mun (and orbiting it). Until I ran out of goddamn battery juice to send the reports back
But seriously, I lost it over this album - I hope you also enjoy it
"Goddard was right! or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love 1.02."
Tonight, I discovered the goldmine that was EVA reports on a trip to the Mun (and orbiting it). Until I ran out of goddamn battery juice to send the reports back
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
That was made using mods, right? Even still, that's awesome!
I wanted to do a few more Mun missions last night collecting science but instead I messed around building random stuff in the hangar facility. They sure have added a ton of new parts. I only have half of the tech tree unlocked but even still there are lots of new components that I've never seen nor used before. I also used my first procedural fairing last night on a satellite rocket that I built for a mission to place it in polar Kerbin orbit. I have to say those procedural fairing's are slick, took me awhile to figure out but worked very well.
I need to design a large 2.5m rocket now, one that can get me to Mun orbit with plenty of delta V for large payloads. I want to put a science station in orbit of the Mun. I designed more than a few failures last night, lol.
Noooope! That's EJ's thing, he NEVER uses mods. It's always vanilla ksp. He won't even use engineer mods.
And FYI just in case people are wondering. This is a fully functional Shuttle he made in the past couple of weeks. He also has the full stack launch system that he uses for Shuttle Launches.
Also he built the mobile staircase vehicle and other small support vehicle we used to see on the runway after a shuttle landing.... EJ sure love his shuttles haha.
gutterboy44
Member
That shuttle is amazing! I am all about the zero mods builds. They will always be far more impressive than anything built with mods.
I was bummed I barely had a chance to play KSP this weekend. I have a Mun and Minmus lander all set up but after working out a kink or two, I didn't have a chance to actually fly the missions. Hopefully tonight I can start my science haul. I want to get back to Duna asap.
Welcome to the world of KSP! I haven't touched any of the new tutorials, but I completely agree about acquiring science. I have been saving career mode until 1.0 but I did dabble in it with every release since science/tech tree was added and I still don't know the ins and outs. Watching a Scott Manley 1.0 tutorial the other day, I picked up on the fact that you can just keep taking all your experiments out of your Mk1 command pod and stuffing them back in and hold more than 1 that way. Previously, without using any transmitters, I was only storing one per mission. I now also have been transmitting EVA reports like crazy since they don't seem to lose any value with transmission in 1.0.
I was bummed I barely had a chance to play KSP this weekend. I have a Mun and Minmus lander all set up but after working out a kink or two, I didn't have a chance to actually fly the missions. Hopefully tonight I can start my science haul. I want to get back to Duna asap.
Welcome to the world of KSP! I haven't touched any of the new tutorials, but I completely agree about acquiring science. I have been saving career mode until 1.0 but I did dabble in it with every release since science/tech tree was added and I still don't know the ins and outs. Watching a Scott Manley 1.0 tutorial the other day, I picked up on the fact that you can just keep taking all your experiments out of your Mk1 command pod and stuffing them back in and hold more than 1 that way. Previously, without using any transmitters, I was only storing one per mission. I now also have been transmitting EVA reports like crazy since they don't seem to lose any value with transmission in 1.0.
Diablohead
Member
I just play in sandbox, every time, all the time.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I'm having a blast with career mode and finding it to be fun and challenging. I like sandbox mode for just experimenting with crazy designs and stuff, but that freedom takes away all of the challenge too. It's the same way I feel about creative mode in Minecraft: sure it's fun to dabble in but survival is the meat of the game. Career is the meat for me with KSP. I want to explore every planetary body in the solar system while managing my own space center and resources.
gutterboy44
Member
I'm in the same boat. I barely played a second of creative mode in Minecraft because it removed the most rewarding aspect of the game for me. I think sandbox mode in KSP is way more fun than creative mode in Minecraft, but I 98% of my ~200 hours in KSP is sandbox mode so I am really happy to tough it out in career mode. So far the challenge has been very rewarding.
I will set foot on every planet in career mode damn it!
I agree. I've just built a stupid little car to drive around the space center doing "science" at each building just to get enough science accumulated to get parts to do other interesting things...
But that getting out, retrieving data, storing data, getting back in shuffle is just mad.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I honestly like how KSP makes you actually DO stuff in order to collect science. It's the only game I can think of where science actually takes more work than simply pressing a button or waiting for a scan to complete.
gutterboy44
Member
I like that there are various ways to collect science, and that you can design missions around maximizing science. However, the game does a horrible job at explaining all of that. I just did Mun and Minmus landings last night for a bunch of science and I still don't understand storing EVA's, samples, experiments, etc. I have done this shit every time since science existed and it seems there is always some quirk to work around or exploit. Time to go back to some tutorial videos. Having said that, I was able to get over 1,000 science last with two missions using the same craft. My first craft was a bit over built. No need for 4 batteries and 8 solar panels. I also brought 4 goo canisters and those things are pointless. Much better to design around bringing along a scientist and just one canister since you quickly burn through all of the places to gather science from. They are not nearly as versatile as EVA reports. Love those surface samples, mmmm sweet sweet science.
Holy shit, new KSP players have no idea how easy you have it. Unlocking the first star in pilot XP makes Mun landings a breeze. Just click retrograde, and manage your vertical speed. That is it. I came in at suicide burn speed, floored it at the last minute, and hit 10 m/s probably 20m from the surface, over cooked it, started accelerating back upward, did three somersaults, went beck to manual mode (yeah fuck those autopilot buttons, I'm god damn Neil Armstrong!) and landed her safe and sound. I recommend doing some Mun or Minmus landings with no pilot assists. You have to experience the thrill of chasing a retrograde marker at least once. Those auto pilot buttons are great through.
Mun/Minums landing missions protip - Make sure to have a quicksave point before you attempt any of your return manuevers. Last the classic KSP moment happened where I left the Mun, got into Kerbin gravity influence, did by retro brun at Ae...and ran out of fuel with a 320Km Pe.... Luckily I was able to reload back to the Munar surface and attempt more conservative return profiles and managed to get it on my third try. For return trip, orbiting @ 270 degrees opposed to @ 90 degrees helped alot. This way you are exiting Mun gravity away from the Mun's orbit and you won't get sucked back in by its gravity when you do your Ae retro burn. When I left Minums, I got my first ever double loop where I gravity sling shot around Kerbin at 95KM, then went for a free Mun encounter, and then a free return to Kerbin. Pretty neat, wish I had more crew on board to soak up all that XP.
Yeay first 1.0 Mun landing. I just realized I didn't have the uncompressed option enabled in Steam, so the screenshot is pretty ugly.
Edit: Ok, I just rewatched the science bit on Scott Manley's Career Tutorial part 2, which was pre 1.0.1, and I couldn't do any of that take all, store all trick last night on the Mun. I could only store one science expiriment in the Mk1 and only one EVA. I had to do an EVA, transmit it (it transmits for 100% which is nice) and then get back out, do another EVA. No more infinite storage it seems. Can anyone else confirm this?
Holy shit, new KSP players have no idea how easy you have it. Unlocking the first star in pilot XP makes Mun landings a breeze. Just click retrograde, and manage your vertical speed. That is it. I came in at suicide burn speed, floored it at the last minute, and hit 10 m/s probably 20m from the surface, over cooked it, started accelerating back upward, did three somersaults, went beck to manual mode (yeah fuck those autopilot buttons, I'm god damn Neil Armstrong!) and landed her safe and sound. I recommend doing some Mun or Minmus landings with no pilot assists. You have to experience the thrill of chasing a retrograde marker at least once. Those auto pilot buttons are great through.
Mun/Minums landing missions protip - Make sure to have a quicksave point before you attempt any of your return manuevers. Last the classic KSP moment happened where I left the Mun, got into Kerbin gravity influence, did by retro brun at Ae...and ran out of fuel with a 320Km Pe...
. Luckily I was able to reload back to the Munar surface and attempt more conservative return profiles and managed to get it on my third try. For return trip, orbiting @ 270 degrees opposed to @ 90 degrees helped alot. This way you are exiting Mun gravity away from the Mun's orbit and you won't get sucked back in by its gravity when you do your Ae retro burn. When I left Minums, I got my first ever double loop where I gravity sling shot around Kerbin at 95KM, then went for a free Mun encounter, and then a free return to Kerbin. Pretty neat, wish I had more crew on board to soak up all that XP.Yeay first 1.0 Mun landing. I just realized I didn't have the uncompressed option enabled in Steam, so the screenshot is pretty ugly.
Edit: Ok, I just rewatched the science bit on Scott Manley's Career Tutorial part 2, which was pre 1.0.1, and I couldn't do any of that take all, store all trick last night on the Mun. I could only store one science expiriment in the Mk1 and only one EVA. I had to do an EVA, transmit it (it transmits for 100% which is nice) and then get back out, do another EVA. No more infinite storage it seems. Can anyone else confirm this?