Support NeoGAF

[commish]

People huddled around the mortar spawn on MAWLR reminds me of the people who waited around for the UAV in BC2. Not sure which group is more useless.

Or the people who wait around for vehicles in the BF games. How many times was I teamkilled for taking an airplane? About 10 billion. The mortars were a dumb addition to KZ3 on most maps and add nothing.

 

[X-Frame]

So I went back and played the greatest MP game ever made yesterday, Warhawk, and started feeling a bit like a hypocrite when I realized that Warhawk has TSP's as well! Never really made the connection.

The two games I played we got base-raped from start to finish and got shut out in CTF because we didn't take any zones. The difference is that anyone can neutralize and capture the zones in Warhawk though, and there's vehicles and planes to get out of the base quickly.

Still, I thought it was funny.

 

[Zen]

the game would be much more enjoyable without mortar spam. its funny because although I enjoy the game and have fun in multi, the longer I play I am realizing just how many things they did wrong with it. At first I thought it was just the killzone 2 vets being whiny but nope, there are a lot of questionable design choices with just about every aspect of multiplayer.

I rarely see Mortar spam in public games, usually it's once or twice per Warzone with somewhat tactical placements.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Ops is a brilliant mode because everyone is going for the objective. It just works and it's ton of funs. A pitty that there are only 3 maps and no DLC...

Word. Its bloody great. If I had to nitpick:

- More victory cutscenes for the Helghast are needed.
- When the ISA win on Snowdrift, one Helghast lands flat on his face in the snow. It cracks me up.
- More maps are needed but we aren't getting any.
- Would be nice to have Stahl's voice for some of the Helghast commands.
- Snowdrift would be aweome with Jetpacks due to the water, platforms and height.

 

[10dollas]

So I went back and played the greatest MP game ever made yesterday, Warhawk, and started feeling a bit like a hypocrite when I realized that Warhawk has TSP's as well! Never really made the connection.

The two games I played we got base-raped from start to finish and got shut out in CTF because we didn't take any zones. The difference is that anyone can neutralize and capture the zones in Warhawk though, and there's vehicles and planes to get out of the base quickly.

Still, I thought it was funny.

I think thats why Warhawk is a less frustrating tactical spawn system. Its way more fluid. The current Killzone TSP system is just a giant bottleneck to the flow of the game. It is way to hard to recapture certain TSPs when the whole enemy team spawns (quite quickly) from that particular point and you are required to have a live tactician present to secure the point. Not to mention warhawk isn't a bottleneck hell like KZ3 is.

BTW has anyone noticed mortars have a tendecy to killrape you even inside buildings sometimes?

And OMG, the marksman is such a beast when it picks up a silenced AR.

 

[commish]

And OMG, the marksman is such a beast when it picks up a silenced AR.

Yes, so true. When I get the third tier Infiltrator assault rifle, I know it's about to get ridiculous.

 

[JB1981]

the game would be much more enjoyable without mortar spam. its funny because although I enjoy the game and have fun in multi, the longer I play I am realizing just how many things they did wrong with it. At first I thought it was just the killzone 2 vets being whiny but nope, there are a lot of questionable design choices with just about every aspect of multiplayer.

Mortars, Wasps and Exos

........


.......


........

 

[Thrakier]

Mortars, Wasps and Exos

........


.......


........

Yeah, they could get rid of those. And fix the framerate/lag. Some more OP maps and clan options and the game would be perfect for me.

Maybe they can tweak the respawn times a little or add squad spawn too.

 

[10dollas]

Yes, so true. When I get the third tier Infiltrator assault rifle, I know it's about to get ridiculous.

indeed, shits gonna die. But its feels like losing newborn when you die with the rifle.

 

[Zen]

The problem with this fixed spawning is that there are no more sneak attacks or ways to change the flow of battle. If your team is getting spawn trapped, you are pretty much fucked. Sure, one guy can slip away, but as long as you watch your TSP, he aint gonna do jack shit.

In KZ2, one guy could slip away and plant a spawn grenade, and have the team spawn there and be able to flank the enemy or complete an objective. Or if a squad leader slips through, his team could spawn on him. They got rid of both.

They should have given the tact some sort of device that he would have to slowly set up, and it would be about his size, that when set up, was a spawn point. It would have to be something visible, so that the enemy could destroy it, but has health like an ammo box.

I dont know, thats my suggestion.

Probably doesnt matter anyways, I think they aren't changing the spawning system anyways.

As long as it had a proximity restriction to all objectives.

Certainly sneak attacking and such things take longer now to be effective, and you do end up having to cede a round here or there to accomplish this more so than in Killzone 2, but my point about taking advantage of holes in the focus of the other team (Particularly when they are focused on an objective) typically gives you good windows of opportunity.

Example: Our team was down 0-2 and the enemies had every spawn on salamun. The 'search and destroy' objective came up for the opposing team to defend. With a greater amount of their attention on the defend point, I was able to recapture a far point, and work with 3-4 other people whom chose to spawn at that point to retake the bridge spawn. Now yes we lost that battle and it went to 3-0, but we got into a much more favorable position for the rest of the game and ended up losing 4-3 because of an assassination gone wrong.

You can't instantly turn the tide of battles like you could with Spawn grenades, but the ability to turn the tide is still very much there. Multiplayer still has a tremendous amount of flow, it's just slower than it was in Killzone 2.

 

[denomes]

I played the multiplayer a lot this weekend and had a lot of fun! I feel like a lot of the complaints in this thread are largely unfounded.

Also, if you're not playing with a fully upgraded class I would reserve judgments until you do. It seems to me the game was balanced with the classes fully unlocked (obviously). The progression system is kind of unnecessary in this game, except that it does introduce you to the mechanics at a deliberate pace, which I can appreciate to a degree.

Classes are much more well-defined and better balanced than in KZ2 imo. Skills have counters all around for the most part. Eg. Cloaked snipers can be easily taken down by a good Infilitrator.

EDIT: I do hold a soft spot still for KZ2 multiplayer though, particularly the maps.

 

[commish]

Skills have counters all around for the most part. Eg. Cloaked snipers can be easily taken down by a good Infilitrator.

How do infiltrators have any advantage going against a cloaked sniper?

 

[denomes]

How do infiltrators have any advantage going against a cloaked sniper?

Much like in other games featuring a spy class, your disguise and infinite sprint helps you to penetrate the enemy's backfield and go on a melee killing spree. Once you learn the maps, it's easy to sweep areas where Snipers are known to camp.

EDIT: Basically, it's difficult for a sniper to pay attention to their immediate surroundings while zoomed in with their rifle.

 

[user8503492]

Can somone please explain to me the balance of the Marksman class?

Seriously, its beastly.

Being able to shoot and remained cloaked, ability to pack a sniper rifle and AR, and to top this off they seem to jam every damn radar a mile away.

Sometimes I end up playing teams full of snipers just packing AR's amd theyre machine pistol, the whole map is basically a deadzone for the radar since every 15 meters another Marksman is disabling another 15 meters. They spawn, spam mines everywere (scratch that, EVERYONE SPAMS MINES I SHOULD SAY), then sit by objectives and kill you or sit in rooms and kill you. Even if you have space to not get ninja ganked by a cloaked sniper they then can pull out theyre sniper rifle and scope you with no sway and OHK you. They are by far the most powerfull class when it comes to defending or taking enemies out.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Mortars, Wasps and Exos

........


.......


........

none of those are troubling to the game at all IMO, in fact, the 3 of those are solid counters to each other.

But Like every FPS, mele int this game is ass

 

[denomes]

Sometimes I end up playing teams full of snipers just packing AR's amd theyre machine pistol, the whole map is basically a deadzone for the radar since every 15 meters another Marksman is disabling another 15 meters.

I agree. This ability is somewhat questionable.

 

[user8503492]

Much like in other games featuring a spy class, your disguise and infinite sprint helps you to penetrate the enemy's backfield and go on a melee killing spree. Once you learn the maps, it's easy to sweep areas where Snipers are known to camp.

EDIT: Basically, it's difficult for a sniper to pay attention to their immediate surroundings while zoomed in with their rifle.

Everytime I go sniper hunting I find myself entering a building/room looking for an invisble guy who has a weapon that doesnt seem to break his cloak while also jamming my radar making me even more less aware of were he is or any of his teammates incoming or in the same area.

Theyre AR is IMO the best and most just sit with the machine pistol since it doesnt break cloak.
Sit by objective or in high traffic room, head shot with Machine Pistol, stay cloaked..

And have you seen how fast the cloak recharges!?
Class is straight beast!

 

[Zen]

Can somone please explain to me the balance of the Marksman class?

Seriously, its beastly.

Being able to shoot and remained cloaked, ability to pack a sniper rifle and AR, and to top this off they seem to jam every damn radar a mile away.

Sometimes I end up playing teams full of snipers just packing AR's amd theyre machine pistol, the whole map is basically a deadzone for the radar since every 15 meters another Marksman is disabling another 15 meters. They spawn, spam mines everywere (scratch that, EVERYONE SPAMS MINES I SHOULD SAY), then sit by objectives and kill you or sit in rooms and kill you. Even if you have space to not get ninja ganked by a cloaked sniper they then can pull out theyre sniper rifle and scope you with no sway and OHK you. They are by far the most powerfull class when it comes to defending or taking enemies out.

I'd like to see mines restricted to one class like in Killzone 2, or removed all together. Good news though, the jamming radius of the Marksman is being reduced in the upcoming patch.

 

[user8503492]

I'd like to see mines restricted to one class like in Killzone 2, or removed all together. Good news though, the jamming radius of the Marksman is being reduced in the upcoming patch.

I agree.

Every single objective, hallway, set of stairs etc.. is a minefield of mines. You tell yourself everytime you spawn "I will check my surroundings" but it doesnt matter, youd have to tippy toe around the map to not set off the mine at every turn.
For all the bitching people have done in mutiple games about Claymores, I welcome claymores over the inability to see the mutitude of charges people toss willy nilly in KZ3.

As for the reduction in Jamming...I think its to little to late. The class already has an amazing ability to be stealth and this ability just further imbalances them. I dont think a reduction of a few meters is gonna change much when there are so many Marksman on the battle field due to its godmode-ness.
The sheer number of Markman in the windows, in CQC, EVERYWERE makes the overlap of Jamming a pain in the ass.

 

[JB1981]

Question: i see a lot of guys run through prox mines, is that where Armor helps most or no?

 

[TrAcEr_x90]

Word. Its bloody great. If I had to nitpick:

- More victory cutscenes for the Helghast are needed.
- When the ISA win on Snowdrift, one Helghast lands flat on his face in the snow. It cracks me up.
- More maps are needed but we aren't getting any.
- Would be nice to have Stahl's voice for some of the Helghast commands.
- Snowdrift would be aweome with Jetpacks due to the water, platforms and height.

this is all my friend and I pretty much play. Seems it somehow gets people to effortlessly go for objectives and use teamwork. I don't play any other modes but damn, im sure ill get tired of the maps soon.

 

[commish]

Much like in other games featuring a spy class, your disguise and infinite sprint helps you to penetrate the enemy's backfield and go on a melee killing spree. Once you learn the maps, it's easy to sweep areas where Snipers are known to camp.

EDIT: Basically, it's difficult for a sniper to pay attention to their immediate surroundings while zoomed in with their rifle.

Yeah, spend a few minutes running to the other side of the map, not doing objectives, avoiding the proximity mines the sniper has set up, just to kill a sniper who will respawn 5 seconds later and move to the same spot after gunning you down with his silenced machine pistol

As others have said, the OP-ness of the marksman class is not that they can snipe, but that they get an assault rifle and can kill with a silenced weapon and remain cloaked. A marksman guarding a position is very hard to overcome for a single player, as you have to guess correctly where he's camped before he kills you from cloak.

 

[commish]

I agree.

Every single objective, hallway, set of stairs etc.. is a minefield of mines. You tell yourself everytime you spawn "I will check my surroundings" but it doesnt matter, youd have to tippy toe around the map to not set off the mine at every turn.
For all the bitching people have done in mutiple games about Claymores, I welcome claymores over the inability to see the mutitude of charges people toss willy nilly in KZ3.

As for the reduction in Jamming...I think its to little to late. The class already has an amazing ability to be stealth and this ability just further imbalances them. I dont think a reduction of a few meters is gonna change much when there are so many Marksman on the battle field due to its godmode-ness.
The sheer number of Markman in the windows, in CQC, EVERYWERE makes the overlap of Jamming a pain in the ass.

Reducing the radius of jamming actually is a benefit to the marksman class, imo. Right now, it reaches pretty far out, and EVERYONE knows to be on the lookout for the marksman class. I want a shorter radius if I was a marksman so I can kill people from further out without them being alerted to my presence.

I agree re: the proximity mines. I don't die too often to them, but I've received a few hundred kills from them so far. Search & Hold was basically made for proximity mine kills.

 

[Dibbz]

Just got Move.

Been trying to get to grips with it, but jesus I'm not going to survive online at this rate. Bots will have to do for now.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

where's the patch???!?!??

 

[Cornbread78]

where's the patch???!?!??

Good question, just keep getting "sson" for an answer.... They have a lot to fix quickly or they are going to lose some online presence with Homefront and Crysis2 coming out int he next consecutive weeks.



Finally finished single player. Can't wait for KZ4 now.... Story was better than people made it out to be. Trying for the trophies now, only need 5 more for plat. should finish in the next couple weeks.

 

[RoboPlato]

Something clicked with me in MP the fast few days and I've been doing way better than I typically do in MP shooters. I've been using Move the whole time but it never really clicked for me in MP until last night. So much fun once you get going with it.

 

[patsu]

Question: i see a lot of guys run through prox mines, is that where Armor helps most or no?

Yap, I think so. I ran through a mine a couple of times without dying. But hey they could put 2 ! ^_^

You can throw a nade to trigger them.

I can self-revive as medic. That's why I love that class. Infiltrator gets second love. Tried Marksman, the experience is pretty uneven. One thing Marksman needs to watch out for is

Spoiler

other Marksmans !

.

I seldom rely on the radar. Instead I blind fire at suspect locations (for invisible enemies or mines). It has served me well so far. Most Marksman are unaware of their surrounding (even if they got hit). Their silenced weapon is cool but I hate their real sniper rifle more. A talented sniper is so annoying in any game. ^_^

The one sniper I feared most was in MAG SVER Sabotage map Objective C. Never saw another sniper so terrifying in other games. That Japanese dude singlehandledly stalled the entire Raven advance. No one could get close to what… 30 feet of Objective C from the front. We kept spawning, charging in and dying until I was scared to look at the final scores :lol. I could run or pop out of cover up to 2-3 times, before he sniped me even while running.

 

[.GqueB.]

Something clicked with me in MP the fast few days and I've been doing way better than I typically do in MP shooters. I've been using Move the whole time but it never really clicked for me in MP until last night. So much fun once you get going with it.

For me, the game clicked with me when I began to understand the maps. Thats always a chore for me and it always takes me some time. Once you learn where things are and where objectives are located the game really opens up. But in the beginning the whole experience was just pure ass. These maps are a bit too ambitious sometimes.

I finally gained a general understanding of snow drift over the weekend and was able to get 15k in points during a warzone game. This may be typical for some of the vets but for me thats a miracle.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Just got Move.

Been trying to get to grips with it, but jesus I'm not going to survive online at this rate. Bots will have to do for now.

You'll adjust quickly. Its all about finding the right setting. For me its everything set to zero, turning speed at 30%. You can afford to be more behind cover with move than with a DS and its great for bursting around a corner and headshotting a few guys.

Thing to avoid is a close gunfight or going for Melee.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Good question, just keep getting "sson" for an answer.... They have a lot to fix quickly or they are going to lose some online presence with Homefront and Crysis2 coming out int he next consecutive weeks.

Crysis 1 MP was DOA, I wouldn't expect anything big or popular from 2.

 

[JB1981]

For me, the game clicked with me when I began to understand the maps. Thats always a chore for me and it always takes me some time. Once you learn where things are and where objectives are located the game really opens up. But in the beginning the whole experience was just pure ass. These maps are a bit too ambitious sometimes.

I finally gained a general understanding of snow drift over the weekend and was able to get 15k in points during a warzone game. This may be typical for some of the vets but for me thats a miracle.

I actually don't mind snow drift now, just wish they would cut down on the blizzard effects. also, the spawn on left needs to be moved to a location with cover. You are a sitting duck there. The TSP on right just outside of ISA base spawn is the most important and has the benefit of being indoors. If you cap that spawn you are going to rape.

 

[Dibbz]

You'll adjust quickly. Its all about finding the right setting. For me its everything set to zero, turning speed at 30%. You can afford to be more behind cover with move than with a DS and its great for bursting around a corner and headshotting a few guys.

Thing to avoid is a close gunfight or going for Melee.

Gotta say I was getting tons of headshots against bots. The accuracy really is amazing. I was tracking fools like crazy, I honestly felt like I had hax or something :lol

Only real problem is turning and getting used to using my hand rather than my thumb to look around.

Melee is a bitch though. Fuckin' bots on Recruit were destroying me in a melee battle.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Melee is a bitch though. Fuckin' bots on Recruit were destroying me in a melee battle.

I tried melee in Botzone too and it sucked for me. I just don't do it in competetive games. Move is awesome for slowly advancing on an enemy while firing from the hip.

Also, if you have the higher ground you'll just dominate. On Snowdrift and Mawlr you can own people in Operations because people have to come out of cover.

 

[.GqueB.]

I actually don't mind snow drift now, just wish they would cut down on the blizzard effects. also, the spawn on left needs to be moved to a location with cover. You are a sitting duck there. The TSP on right just outside of ISA base spawn is the most important and has the benefit of being indoors. If you cap that spawn you are going to rape.

Yea Snow drift is actually one of my faves personally but I agree about the spawn placement. The game where I scored so high, I actually captured that spawn point and held it the entire game. That enabled us to come back from a 3 - 0. That other spawn is more or less useless anyways. Its only beneficial in Search and Destroy on the Helgast.

All in all, Im slowly starting to fall in love with every map... except Phyrrus Crater. I fucking hate that map. Hurts my eyes. Not to fond of Turbine either. Im not a big fan of vertical maps

 

[MalboroRed]

Mortars, Wasps and Exos

........


.......


........

And rockets, and giving infiltrators guns.

 

[Totobeni]

I wanna play the game again but DO fucking not want to have to go through same shitty tutorisl section again.... TWICE

I really, really want to play it on higher difficulty again since the gameplay is great imo, but then again I remember how horrible the story, Rico and the entire fucking bullshit ending were.

I guess I need some more time to get over the ending.

Spoiler

I agree that her inclusion felt like pointless filler because KZ3 certainly showed that GG isn't interested in properly building the fiction of Killzone, even though I feel like there's so much potential. I'm guessing her skin looks fine because she's wearing makeup.

true, it's shame that they wasted the entire work on the background fiction that freelance dude did for them(is he still in gaf?), hope they hire someone next time for the story.

I don't think it's makeup, since her arms were normal too.

 

[owlbeak]

Just played a few games with randoms and ended up winning 3/4. God, I love this game! Nothing is more satisfying than playing tactician and ferociously defending a spawn so that your team can spawn next to the search and destroy objective. Haven't had this much fun in an online shooter since Bad Company 2's release.

 

[FireCloud]

Stayed up late last night and finished the campaign (on normal difficulty). Really enjoyed the game. It seemed easier than KZ2 IMO. There were less areas that I had to replay over and over again to get past as I did in KZ2.

Still not sure what I think about the ending but I enjoyed the variety of gameplay in KZ3 alot.

I started using the DS and changed to the move controller early on. Such a great implementation of move.

I'm not usually much for multiplayer. But I had such a good time with move, I will start playing around with it once I've learned the maps in bot mode.

 

[commish]

I think I had enough of this game. Terrible matchmaking + stupid ass TSPs = spawn camping 101.

 

[cnizzle06]

Ugh, I regret purchasing the retro maps, if I have warzone preference set to any, I'll keep getting the one, and if I set it to something else, I'll keep getting that map. I'm not sure how this shit was overlooked when they implemented the DLC.

 

[RedRedSuit]

Ugh, I regret purchasing the retro maps, if I have warzone preference set to any, I'll keep getting the one, and if I set it to something else, I'll keep getting that map. I'm not sure how this shit was overlooked when they implemented the DLC.

Yes. Everyone has this problem. killzone.com even mentions it and says they are working on it.

Here is how to make it stop. Set preference to another map. Play that once. In the next round, quit, and reset the map preference. Then you should be fine for a while.

Personally I think the retro map is still more than worth it (well, okay, I got it in the Amazon preorder), despite this horrid annoyance. I think Salamun Market in Warzone with exos is bliss TBH.

 

[Hazelhurst]

I finally gained a general understanding of snow drift over the weekend and was able to get 15k in points during a warzone game. This may be typical for some of the vets but for me thats a miracle.

Impressive. I was able to get over 10k in a Warzone match this weekend. Felt good. Did it with the Move.

 

[Thrakier]

Yes. Everyone has this problem. killzone.com even mentions it and says they are working on it.

Here is how to make it stop. Set preference to another map. Play that once. In the next round, quit, and reset the map preference. Then you should be fine for a while.

Personally I think the retro map is still more than worth it (well, okay, I got it in the Amazon preorder), despite this horrid annoyance. I think Salamun Market in Warzone with exos is bliss TBH.

The framerate is horrible on SM and Exos + WASPs don't add much to the gameplay. Enjoyed it more in KZ2. It even looked better back then.

 

[GraveRobberX]

I think Salamun Market in Warzone with exos is bliss TBH.

Did you play in a full room? 12 vs 12?

That map goes ape shit if you have EXO's and WASP's going on the whole round, you can tell the game starts chugging, and the lag starts kicking in due to so much shit happening

 

[MickeyKnox]

Need more jetpack maps.

 

[RedRedSuit]

Did you play in a full room? 12 vs 12?

That map goes ape shit if you have EXO's and WASP's going on the whole round, you can tell the game starts chugging, and the lag starts kicking in due to so much shit happening

It was something like 8v8. Really fun IMO. The frame rate did chug a few times but not too bad. I can imagine a full game being more of a clusterfuck.

The framerate is horrible on SM and Exos + WASPs don't add much to the gameplay. Enjoyed it more in KZ2. It even looked better back then.

Exos patrolling those TSAs around the long street and shooting people through the window seemed fun to me. I admit I am a noob, and since I was low-ranked, most people around me probably were noobs too.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Need more jetpack maps.

Next DLC (Steel/Rain) adds that new GW map, has Jet-Packs & EXO's together

 

[BlackBoss]

played a couple of hours of mp and im not really feeling some of the maps especially cornith highway that map has a weird flow to it.

 

[Dibbz]

You'll adjust quickly. Its all about finding the right setting. For me its everything set to zero, turning speed at 30%. You can afford to be more behind cover with move than with a DS and its great for bursting around a corner and headshotting a few guys.

Thing to avoid is a close gunfight or going for Melee.

After spending a bit more time with it I'm still not happy with how I'm playing with Move. I'm more concerned about actually turning and moving with the Move. With the DS3 I don't even think about it, I'm more focused on the game. I'm sure with time I'll adjust but I'm taking a beating right now online.

Your settings are crazy btw. I have my turn speed set at 80% at the moment and was thinking of going up to 100%. Might need to add some deadzone to my settings though since they're at 0 like yours.

BTW do I really have to calibrate the controller every time I boot into Killzone?