Kinect Playable at Microsoft Store
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REMEMBER CITADEL
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mujun said:
It doesn't really matter, because your average Gaffer is not its intended audience anyway, at least not with the first wave of games.
Rabbitwork said:
Ah ha! A diamond in the rough. Nice impressions and I hope to read many more in here. Also keep posting the youtube vidoes of people playing as well. Love it.
On the bowling did it seem pretty responsive? As in you feel like the ball hit where you were aiming kind of thing.
Tormentoso
Banned
szaromir said:
Getting high scores and selling a few million units.?
Solid warrior
Banned
I'm sure everybody is 'aware' of the Kinect so far and I don't expect Sony and Nintendo to talk negatively about their upcoming products and services.gofreak said:
since these are showing up in malls anyone know if there's on in west edmonton mall?
i would imagine there would be if microsoft canada is smart since it's super happy tourist season there. if there is one i might have to go check it out... with a chair. kinda want to slouch heavily when walking into the cameras vision then standing to see how out of wack it becomes.
i would imagine there would be if microsoft canada is smart since it's super happy tourist season there. if there is one i might have to go check it out... with a chair. kinda want to slouch heavily when walking into the cameras vision then standing to see how out of wack it becomes.
Alx
Member
quetz67 said:
It's not really an IR camera, it's a depth camera based on IR.
A standard IR camera returns an image where each pixel value represents the amount of IR emitted/reflected by the object seen in this pixel (by the way, most sensors in regular cameras can see IR too, but it's usually filtered to avoid saturation... if I remember correctly, the eyetoy worked with IR too, and so does the PSEye I suppose).
In the kinect sensor, each pixel value represents the distance to the object seen in this pixel (it measures this distance using IR, with a method that isn't really clear by now, but it doesn't seem based on time of flight).
quetz67 said:
There is a common confusion about IR, with thermal imaging and all kinds of Predator vision. IR related to heat is called "far IR" and is rarely used in common technology (it's still rather expensive, require special optics, ...). IR more commonly used in cameras, night vision, remote sensors etc. are called "near IR" (their wavelength is very close to what the human eye can see).
I suppose that some sources like light spots emit all kinds of IR (+ visible light of course), but humans and room temperature shouldn't be a problem for near IR.
Megadragon15
Member
Fixed.PoliceCop said:
Captain Tuttle
Member
Beat me to it. If MS gets this thing on Oprah and Ellen all bets are off. That's the target audience.Megadragon15 said:
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
mckmas8808 said:
Shenmue III confirmed.
You know, the more I watch it..the more it gets my interest.
Though I felt bored as hell during their E3 conferences; the thing is starting to grow on me..
Though the suspected price..is still weird..heck, throw a first party game, 1 year of Xbox Live and 1600 MS Points..or something.
Though I felt bored as hell during their E3 conferences; the thing is starting to grow on me..
Though the suspected price..is still weird..heck, throw a first party game, 1 year of Xbox Live and 1600 MS Points..or something.
I think it is quite obvious, the generate a 3D representation based on two stereoscopic images, nothing too mysterious there, it is kind of proven tech...although I applaud them for doing this in realtime with (at most times) good results.Alx said:
Room temperature obviusly isnt a factor here but humans sure would be. Using two cameras for a spatial repesentation sure is a good idea but still most dependant on contrast. If the background has about the same temperature (or if you like that better: "near IR footprint") as the players that is a problem.Alx said:
The right soldier is hardly to distinguish from the door, I am sure Kinect wouldnt be able to detect him even closely. I dont really know which factors would interfere with Kinect the most but I am sure in the millions of "playing rooms" there will be lots of those present - even if it works fine under most conditions those bad examples will generate lots of bad press.
how can that be???Rabbitwork said:
Captain Tuttle
Member
Indeed. I should have added "at the right price". Price will dictate.beast786 said:
Their money is just as good as anyone else's.Spasm said:
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Captain Tuttle said:
Sure they'll do it. They did it with the 360, of course they'll do it with Kinect.
Doesn't necessarily have to mean much, though.
beast786 said:
Beat Wii as in catch up with its current WW user base? Pretty much impossible. Beat Wii as in keep outselling it in the same time period? That's possible, even if it's more expensive. If it becomes the next hip thing to own, people will buy it at a high price.
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
I think 250 and above is not that spontaneous of a buy in this current economic situation. Especially if you still have to buy a game.
Wii still has Mario backlog, already friends playing and cheaper.
Those are all the disadvantages that kinect/360 going against. And to overcome all the above by simply playing same type of games in a little different way is not going to make that big of a difference. And specially not enough to pay almost 100 bucks more if you dont bundle a game.
Just my opinion.
REMEMBER CITADEL
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beast786 said:
Who's talking about spontaneous sales? If it becomes the next cool thing (think Wii or Apple's products), $300 for a bundle won't necessarily be a problem.
beast786 said:
PS2 had a tremendous backlog, most friends were already playing and it was much cheaper when Wii launched. However, Wii was the new thing and PS2 didn't really pose a problem. Just one example.
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Well, there is a big difference between the wii launch and Kinect launch.
These are same wii games, wihtout mario. You cant compare it to wii because the market situation is not the same. Wii has dominated this particular market for 4 years. With exactly the types of games that kinect is launching with.
Part of wii success at launch was its novilty with motion control and family games. But now that is NOT a novility anymore. The market is very different.
I dont see causual gamers passing over mario/wii play and 100 dollar cheaper system so they can play the less number of games via still motion control. They have to beat wii in price if there is any future for success.
360 beat PS3 largerly due to early adoption and Price. Price >>>> Novilty.
John Rabbit
Banned
i'm confused as to what you wanted "delivered" exactly. i gave my honest opinion. which is to say i'm impressed that it works even at a level just below the smiley death-cult family demonstration videos where the only thing kinect doesn't do is make you breakfast and drive your kids to school.Razgreez said:
anyone who's expecting a "minority report" like experience simply isn't being realistic. this technology is a) not finished b) still relatively new. from using the device its obvious that its not "just an eyetoy/xbox vision", there's more going on than those devices alone are capable of doing. sorry i didn't come back telling everyone to raze redmond to the ground and piss on their 360s.
Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
shinnn said:
This is a really smart idea. MS should roll out these mall kiosks nationwide if they want Kinect to take off. It's the best kind of easy publicity. Nintendo also had mall kiosks everywhere before Wii's launch.
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beast786 said:
The family games part was not a novelty, there were family games, party games, mini-game compilations and so on way before Wii launched. The novelty factor was purely motion control, i.e. its accessibility. Kinect's launch titles are very similar to certain Wii games thematically, yes, but the way you play them (NO controller required) may or may not appear different enough to certain types of gamers (just like Wii's brand of motion control gaming appeared different enough to what Eye Toy was already offering at the time). Marketing will definitely play a huge role in this.
So we have no way of knowing whether Kinect will be perceived as something new when it launches, that's why I said if it becomes the next hip thing. It definitely might, but it just as well might not.
Mario didn't play a huge role in Wii's initial success. Galaxy came out
The price difference of $200, though (a very flawed comparison in a few other ways as well, but this is more than enough). If Kinect bundle ends up being $200 more expensive than the Wii, then yes, it probably won't stand a chance.
DeadGzuz said:
Nielson Reserach says otherwise;
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10426467-17.html
GAF talking points don't work out so hot sometimes.
Jtyettis said:
Normalise those figures per console sold. Wii has ~20% less overall usage than 360 spread across a install base 45% larger. Suffice to say the average Wii does not see nearly as much use as a 360.
Anyway there's probably two types of Wii owner. Though both probably present a challenge for MS, it doesn't mean there's no opportunity. The first, the type that loves their Wii and plays a lot etc. - they could split along the lines of those who might be interested in another system because they are really into their Wii and want to expand into more gaming, and those who are really into their Wii and content with it alone. To get to the former, though, I think MS will have to show what more they offer beyond a Wii, and I'm not sure focusing on Kinect will do that; I'm not sure the opportunity to play a Wii Sports clone (or such) without a controller would really galvanise a lot of $300 purchases. I'm not sure the controller is such a big deal at all for most of this audience. The Wii interface is already simple enough for 95% of people. So I think they might want to pitch it as 'we do the accessible stuff now too, ASWELL AS all this other more general entertainment-y stuff (i.e. network entertainment, netflix, etc. etc.)'.
Then the second group is the group who own a Wii and don't play it a lot. I think they could represent the biggest challenge depending on how recently they bought their Wii. If they've been turned off by their Wii, if it's turned out to be an expensive short-lived novelty for them, I think their ears would be pretty shut to the pitch of any other console company for some time.
mujun said:
It'd be also interesting to see what percentage answered yes and never cared about the Wii and don't care about the Playstation Move controller. Yet here they are on the Kinect hype train ready to get their taste of Kinectimals and Dance Central at launch. Usual suspects, of course, but it's funny nonetheless.
MightyHedgehog
Member
:lol Sounds almost like you're saying that this is new to video games or something. I mean, E3's front face is precisely about building a narrative...they wouldn't be spending the collective hundreds of millions and boring people with hours of presentations at expensive venues if wasn't and all of the more closed off hands-on press time, buyer interactions, and publisher/developer dealings would be kept private and largely out of the public eye. It's the biggest marketing event for the industry.gofreak said:
For Kinect, specifically, it's clear MS is going spend a FUCK TON of money on this going after celebrity endorsements and cross-promotion with them targeting the pre-teenies and up with the tie-up with the Justin Bieber world tour, showings featuring the iCarly girls (Miranda Cosgrove and Jennette McCurdy), hosting duties for events by MTV folks like Sway Calloway, that expensive-as-fuck Cirque du Soleil show with all of the celebs... This thing will more than likely end up on Oprah, Ellen, and others with some showings on Good Morning America and others. MS is directly going after the non-hardcore gamer. I'm guessing lots of product placement in upcoming episodes of shows and films, too. And we're still five months off from launch before direct marketing efforts have even really started yet.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
Redbeard said:
Not really. Are we really that excited about Medal of Honor? Do you really feel like core gamer market is being inadequate serviced? Christ, my backlog is big.
If the tech continues to improve Kinect has the potential for some great core experiences.
REMEMBER CITADEL
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Redbeard said:
If Kinect makes Microsoft a lot of money, which is what they're obviously hoping for, it will also rub off on core game development.
PopcornMegaphone said:
Great core experiences?
~33% hit on GPU/memory while using Kinect.
The device is relegated to the casual space ONLY. There's no Kinect exclusive experience you can make that isn't basically on rails.
This has pretty much zero great core potential.
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Questionable reasoning. Xbox division is highly profitable right now and they're pouring money into Kinect development.
If Kinect is successful, much moreso than their core games, they will pour that money into new Kinect development instead.
REMEMBER CITADEL
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Redbeard said:
Oh dear, not this shit again...
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
Redbeard said:
33%? Nope. Some CPU overhead (not gpu) won't impact the graphics much.
For core gamers, I'm talking about things like head tracking and navy seal hand signals, etc. Kinect has the potential to work in conjunction with a traditional controller.
Redbeard said:
The XBOX brand has been a huge money loser for MS.
Anyway, long-term expanding the gaming market is good for everyone, including core gamers.
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Again, you are missing my whole point. You are talking about the time where wii didnt exist. Hence the motion control novelity isnt there anymore. Controller free isnt a novelty. Like you already said about PS Eyetoy which is well known.
In an enviroment where most of people play Wii (current gen consoles), its cheaper, have huge backlog of NSMW etc etc. You need to bring something of equal value or cheaper to dethrone it.
I think I made my point pretty clear, you cant be 100 dollar more expensive than wii and expect to beat it with same type of games and less amount.
Kinect is not launching like the wii did for next gen console. To beat the king it has to be cheaper than wii. Otherwise its going to be a typical attachment that will be heavy upfront by the core and then fade.
I think Kinect can succeed, and I have made my point many times that MS knows that the only way they can compete with wii this late in the generation is with a price war. And thats why I think kinect bundle is going to be 250 or less. If they are going after wii, then it has to be that price tag at max.
If you dont understand what I am talking about then we just have to agree to disagree.
Redbeard said:
FFS, if Microsoft expands their market and makes more money from Kinect software then that increases the pool of money that MS has to allocate toward all game development.
Another way to look at it, casual/motion games have short development times and don't cost as much, with the potential to sell in great volume. They're relatively low risk, but with high returns. That money could help fund even more core game development, enabling Microsoft to take more risks on games that core gamers eat up (e.g., Shadow of the Colossus, ICO, etc.) instead of just focusing on their mega-hits (Halo, Fable, Forza).
Kinect, if successful, is a good thing no matter how you slice it.
EDIT: Beaten