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[Malyse]

No, I'm referring to Braig.

Braig doesn't have an x mark.

You seem to operating on the assumption that the Xigbar you see in Dream Drop Distance is from a time other than his Nobody period. Remember what I was saying about time travel making a mess of things? Same goes for Saix. If they were recently reformed, why would they disappear into thin air with the other time-travelling mooks? It wasn't via Corridor.

How does it make sense to get a lesser version of yourself? Master Xehanort would have grabbed Xigbar and Saix when they were most tainted with his power, so their farther future selves, not the lesser incompleted nobodies. Again, Occam's Razor, especially when dealing with a fantastic tactician like Xehanort.

They went back because Young Xehanort had to go back. He was the lynchpin tying the True OrgXIII together. And to answer a previous question, the reason Master Xehanort looks like Master Xehanort and not Terra-Xehonort is because he kicked out Terra's heart and changed appearance. Ansem SOD did the exact same thing at the end of the first Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Psxphile]

How does it make sense to get a lesser version of yourself? Master Xehanort would have grabbed Xigbar and Saix when they were most tainted with his power, so their farther future selves, not the lesser incompleted nobodies.

Future selves? What future selves? From beyond the gathering at TWTNW? Wouldn't that be impossible? So they're from the present? But wait, no... then they wouldn't "fade away" like the others when time was up.

Again, Occam's Razor, especially when dealing with a fantastic tactician like Xehanort.

oh boy

They went back because Young Xehanort had to go back. He was the lynchpin tying the True OrgXIII together.

No argument there. He brought them from the past, after all.

And to answer a previous question, the reason Master Xehanort looks like Master Xehanort and not Terra-Xehonort is because he kicked out Terra's heart and changed appearance. Ansem SOD did the exact same thing at the end of the first Kingdom Hearts.

Ah, an interesting hypothesis. So is Xehanort now some kind of ageless being now? Why would he choose to look like his old self, though? And does that mean Terra is now wandering around the Realm of Darkness? But of course, that means Terra can't be restored until Xehanort is defeated. Although I never really understood the "body theft" that Ansem performed on Riku either, come to think of it. "Kicked out his heart" implies that Riku was bodiless in the Dark realm but that clearly wasn't the case, was it?

BTW, what part of the game actually told you that about MX? Because it sure as hell didn't tell me.

 

[zeemumu]

Braig doesn't have an x mark.

Whoops. I don't know why I thought the scar on his face was X-shaped.

 

[zeemumu]

Ah, an interesting hypothesis. So is Xehanort now some kind of ageless being now? Why would he choose to look like his old self, though?

What was the point of body switching if he just turned old again?

And does that mean Terra is now wandering around the Realm of Darkness? But of course, that means Terra can't be restored until Xehanort is defeated.

Part of Terra is still in the Keyblade Graveyard in his armor as the Lingering Will, and the other part of his mind is still inside Terranort. I don't think there's any guarantee that Terra will come back after all of this is over. He's been split apart way too many times. By the way, where did Master Eraqus' heart go after Terra's was booted?

Although I never really understood the "body theft" that Ansem performed on Riku either, come to think of it. "Kicked out his heart" implies that Riku was bodiless in the Dark realm but that clearly wasn't the case, was it?

Ansem was bodiless at the time, so he turned Riku to darkness and slowly assimilated his body. Riku was pretty bodiless though because he showed up as a force ghost to try and hold back Ansem. My guess would be that he got his body back after the light from Kingdom Hearts eliminated enough of Ansem for him to retake it.

 

[Malyse]

Future selves? What future selves? From beyond the gathering at TWTNW? Wouldn't that be impossible? So they're from the present? But wait, no... then they wouldn't "fade away" like the others when time was up.

When you travel in time, you can only go one way, forwards or backwards, but you can pick things up along the way. Young Xehanort picked up the incarnations of Ansem SOD and Xemnas from KH1 and KH2 respectively, while Master Xehanort picked up Xigbar and Saïx from a future point in time. They were only able to come because Xehanort had encroached so far on their heart that they were more him than themselves. This is known because Saïx is displaying none of the spirited will that he showed in Days or KH2, indicating that this Saïx is not the same as the one from the past, but rather the recompleted one.

And yes, fantastic tactician. He has plans on plans on other plans.

What was the point of body switching if he just turned old again?

It's just his appearance is old.

 

[zeemumu]

I'm starting another playthrough of KH1 and KH2 (non-FM version).

What ever happened to the crossroads of destiny? it was a pretty important place for the first few games and it hasn't been referenced in a long time. There's one in the Keyblade Graveyard but what happened to the one that Sora and Riku were on?

Edit: Completely forgot that lower ranking nobodies like Dusks could talk.

 

[Psxphile]

When you travel in time, you can only go one way, forwards or backwards, but you can pick things up along the way. Young Xehanort picked up the incarnations of Ansem SOD and Xemnas from KH1 and KH2 respectively, while Master Xehanort picked up Xigbar and Saïx from a future point in time.

So now Master Xehanort has the time-travel power as well, as opposed to being brought there by someone else or being from the present time? So are we looking at a future MX who brought two of his own back with him to the gathering place? Why just those two? Why not the rest of his complete circle? And why even bother at all? If they're from the future than they already know that their attempt to turn Sora failed. This is why I said it's impossible for them to be from the future. They already stated that beyond the gathering, they knew absolutely nothing about what will happen. Unless the game or some other credible source says otherwise, this is what I will believe.

Again, I'm asking you: where are you getting all this detailed info from? Aren't you just extrapolating from all the vagueness and passing them off as if they were written in stone? I know it's fun to theorize and discuss possibilities but you might be taking things too far, given the vast majority of assumptions that have to be made in order for anything to make sense. It's true that DDD's plot was made purposely vague to retain the trademark "mystery" of the series and give them something to fill in later but maybe it would be better to not make up scenarios just to satisfy your desire to know all the answers.

That is not to say that you're entirely wrong, some of your posits could in fact happen as you say. But we can't know for sure until something more is revealed, and I'd rather not commit to any one idea completely until a few more holes in the narrative are filled to my satisfaction.

In closing, we know that AnsemSoD went back to confer the time travel power to a younger Xehanort, and said Xehanort used it to travel forward and bring with him various other "Xehanorts" to a specific place set up to catch the 13th. Nowhere, whether in the game or post-game interview w/ Nomura, was it stated that this power was also conferred to the older Xehanort. And we are led to believe that YX lost the time-travel power along with his memories once he was returned, so he couldn't have retained it for later use. So it stands to reason that only YX at that point of time had the power. This is what we know presently.

And so, the Xigbar and Saix we see in DDD can't be their complete selves: YX can't go farther into the future than the gathering place and pick up future incarnations of Braig and Isa and return with them for two reasons: 1) can only travel one way and 2) they would then have future knowledge that would negate the whole plan.

What ever happened to the crossroads of destiny? it was a pretty important place for the first few games and it hasn't been referenced in a long time. There's one in the Keyblade Graveyard but what happened to the one that Sora and Riku were on?

SYMBOLISM. Honestly, it probably wasn't anywhere near as important as the fans made it out to be.

 

[Malyse]

And so, the Xigbar and Saix we see in DDD can't be their complete selves: YX can't go farther into the future than the gathering place and pick up future incarnations of Braig and Isa and return with them for two reasons: 1) can only travel one way and 2) they would then have future knowledge that would negate the whole plan.

Even if my other conjecture is wrong, you cant make that statement. Xigbar and Saix were destroyed in the course of KH2 and were then recompleted along with the other members. In the gap between KH2 and the end of 3D they were pulled to the True OrgXIII.

Again, I'm asking you: where are you getting all this detailed info from? Aren't you just extrapolating from all the vagueness and passing them off as if they were written in stone? I know it's fun to theorize and discuss possibilities but you might be taking things too far, given the vast majority of assumptions that have to be made in order for anything to make sense. It's true that DDD's plot was made purposely vague to retain the trademark "mystery" of the series and give them something to fill in later but maybe it would be better to not make up scenarios just to satisfy your desire to know all the answers.

Mainly studying this and doing a lot of research. Do you want a list of every KH site I'm cross referencing? There's literally about 50 of them.

That is not to say that you're entirely wrong, some of your posits could in fact happen as you say. But we can't know for sure until something more is revealed, and I'd rather not commit to any one idea completely until a few more holes in the narrative are filled to my satisfaction.

What do you think I'm doing when I make posts like this? T___T

I'll drop the concept that MX moved backwards in time, but his sheer existence as a recompleted person in 3D suggests that there was a time between 2 and 3D where all of the members were recompleted. Plus, the Hunter in the Dark at the conclusion of BBS was almost certainly Braig's heartless; the style of attack plus the known engulfment of darkness in Braig's heart lends credence to the idea. Setting Saix aside for the moment, Xigbar was restored almost immediately upon his defeat in KH2, which would fit his nonchalance with being destroyed. So when YX drew the Xehanorts together, I'm certain that it was the completed version of Xigbar at the least. Also, time and space are indelibly linked together. Dark Corridors aren't instant teleportation; but rather a path. So for Xigbar and Saix to be instantly in a place they weren't previously would justify the use of the gathering time travel ability as well.

 

[Psxphile]

Even if my other conjecture is wrong, you cant make that statement. Xigbar and Saix were destroyed in the course of KH2 and were then recompleted along with the other members. In the gap between KH2 and the end of 3D they were pulled to the True OrgXIII.

Aye, I forgot about the scene with Lea and the others waking up in Radiant Garden. Both Braig and Isa were missing and Lea went to search for them. He never does find them, tough. But if they were picked up by YX at that point, then that means they would reappear there after it was all over and Lea wouldn't have had to search for them. We're still missing vital information.

Mainly studying this and doing a lot of research. Do you want a list of every KH site I'm cross referencing? There's literally about 50 of them.

Citing in-game scenes, official Square-Enix press statements/trailers/previews and Nomura interviews is more than enough. Oh, and the occasional Famitsu leak if the info is solid.

Plus, the Hunter in the Dark at the conclusion of BBS was almost certainly Braig's heartless; the style of attack plus the known engulfment of darkness in Braig's heart lends credence to the idea.

I could just as easily say it was Lea's because of that wild mane it had. It seems important... but maybe it isn't.

Also, time and space are indelibly linked together. Dark Corridors aren't instant teleportation; but rather a path. So for Xigbar and Saix to be instantly in a place they weren't previously would justify the use of the gathering time travel ability as well.

Not sure what you're saying here. What's the "place they weren't previously"?

 

[Malyse]

Aye, I forgot about the scene with Lea and the others waking up in Radiant Garden. Both Braig and Isa were missing and Lea went to search for them. He never does find them, tough. But if they were picked up by YX at that point, then that means they would reappear there after it was all over and Lea wouldn't have had to search for them. We're still missing vital information.

But Lea isn't at RG right now. He's at the Tower. Plus people don't always end up in the right place. Riku ended up in Hollow Bastion in KH1, after all.

I could just as easily say it was Lea's because of that wild mane it had. It seems important... but maybe it isn't.

Having the Hunter be Braig's Heartless makes sense from a storyline perspective given his role as a recurring antagonist in Birth by Sleep, as well as his role in the game's secret ending. The fighting styles of Braig and the Hunter also have several similarities - notably, it can use various forms of teleportation and dark projectiles, and most strikingly, has an attack in which the player's point of view is shifted to its eyes as it aims - Braig/Xigbar is the only other boss in the entire series which this occurs in. It also makes more sense for Braig to have such a powerful Heartless, as he was imbued with dark powers by Xehanort long before he became a Nobody; this is significant as Xehanort is one of the two people who have ever left a human Heartless. Although Xehanort's influence and his own darkness weren't enough to give him a human Heartless, it birthed the immensely powerful Hunter of the Dark.

Not sure what you're saying here. What's the "place they weren't previously"?

Instant transmission from Radiant Garden to the Place of Gathering in TWTNK would require utilization of the Time Travel ability, as time and space are linked.

 

[Psxphile]

But Lea isn't at RG right now. He's at the Tower.

...

Okay. Let's try this again. Lea, Even and the others all woke up at the same time in Radiant Garden, despite having their Nobodies destroyed at different times during CoM/KHII. For some unexplained reason, they all came back together and one could assume Isa and Braig would have too but they were already gone. If they were picked up by our friendly neighborhood time-traveler at this point (because they need to be re-completed as per your scenario), then when they faded away at the gathering place they should have returned "to their own times" which would be when they were picked up, i.e. just before or even during everyone else waking up. Which would have resulted in a different scene than what we got (Lea not finding them in Radiant Garden).

Let's not forget the ridiculously small window Young Xehanort would have had to bring Braig and Isa up to date on what's happening and plop them in place to catch Sora, or the ridiculously small window Braig and Isa would have to leave Radiant Garden upon their return without being noticed by the others.

Occam's Razor would have just gone with the "it's their Nobodies" explanation compared to the mess this one is.

Instant transmission from Radiant Garden to the Place of Gathering in TWTNK would require utilization of the Time Travel ability, as time and space are linked.

Eh... okay.

 

[Malyse]

...

Okay. Let's try this again. Lea, Even and the others all woke up at the same time in Radiant Garden, despite having their Nobodies destroyed at different times during CoM/KHII. For some unexplained reason, they all came back together and one could assume Isa and Braig would have too but they were already gone. If they were picked up by our friendly neighborhood time-traveler at this point (because they need to be re-completed as per your scenario), then when they faded away at the gathering place they should have returned "to their own times" which would be when they were picked up, i.e. just before or even during everyone else waking up. Which would have resulted in a different scene than what we got (Lea not finding them in Radiant Garden).

Let's not forget the ridiculously small window Young Xehanort would have had to bring Braig and Isa up to date on what's happening and plop them in place to catch Sora, or the ridiculously small window Braig and Isa would have to leave Radiant Garden upon their return without being noticed by the others.

Occam's Razor would have just gone with the "it's their Nobodies" explanation compared to the mess this one is.




Eh... okay.

Except we don't know how small the window was. Master Xehanort could have spirited them away prior to Lea and co awaking. From the beginning of 3D, we know that Xehanort cast off his body in the same place that the recompleted OrgXIII would wake, yet there was no sign of him when the others rose. Either A. He awoke elsewhere or B. he left. And in either case, there's no reason the same couldn't apply to Xigbar and Saïx.

 

[zeemumu]

...

Okay. Let's try this again. Lea, Even and the others all woke up at the same time in Radiant Garden, despite having their Nobodies destroyed at different times during CoM/KHII. For some unexplained reason, they all came back together and one could assume Isa and Braig would have too but they were already gone. If they were picked up by our friendly neighborhood time-traveler at this point (because they need to be re-completed as per your scenario), then when they faded away at the gathering place they should have returned "to their own times" which would be when they were picked up, i.e. just before or even during everyone else waking up. Which would have resulted in a different scene than what we got (Lea not finding them in Radiant Garden).

Let's not forget the ridiculously small window Young Xehanort would have had to bring Braig and Isa up to date on what's happening and plop them in place to catch Sora, or the ridiculously small window Braig and Isa would have to leave Radiant Garden upon their return without being noticed by the others.

Occam's Razor would have just gone with the "it's their Nobodies" explanation compared to the mess this one is.

Why was Lea the only one who woke up in a black coat?

I always kind of assumed that Xehanort took Saix and Xigbar after they were reformed, and that both were aware of the plan before dying so they didn't need to be brought up to speed, and that Where Nothing Gathers and the entirety of The World That Never Was is immune to the time travel rules because it's not even supposed to exist.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Sid Fuckin Meier's Alpha Goddamn Centauri 2 got a release window before 2.5. I can't

And no, I will not stop whining about this <3.

 

[Psxphile]

Except we don't know how small the window was. Master Xehanort could have spirited them away prior to Lea and co awaking. From the beginning of 3D, we know that Xehanort cast off his body in the same place that the recompleted OrgXIII would wake, yet there was no sign of him when the others rose. Either A. He awoke elsewhere or B. he left. And in either case, there's no reason the same couldn't apply to Xigbar and Saïx.

So in short, we don't know or can't be sure. In any case, trying to explain the unexplainable is a tiring exercise.

Why was Lea the only one who woke up in a black coat?

Simplest answer is this wasn't the game to show off a new wardrobe for Lea. Long-winded answer could be any number of reasons, some of them tied to why he and Isa wanted to infiltrate the castle. They might have been in the room when the incident occurred and lost their bodies as a result (they might have even been a trigger). Or one or both were allowed in and experimented on. Lea could have been testing the effectiveness of the coat when it happened. We don't know.

We *do* know that it happened when he and Isa were relatively young still, and their bodies matured as Nobodies. His old clothes would not have fit him well at all and to get around that they left him in a coat. Or, that's my reasoning for it.

Sid Fuckin Meier's Alpha Goddamn Centauri 2 got a release window before 2.5. I can't

And no, I will not stop whining about this <3.

They're going to make us wait until E3, aren't they? Near-simultaneous launch in the works? A man can dream.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Near-simultaneous launch in the works?

September in Japan, December 31st in the west believe.

 

[Malyse]

Why was Lea the only one who woke up in a black coat?

I always kind of assumed that Xehanort took Saix and Xigbar after they were reformed, and that both were aware of the plan before dying so they didn't need to be brought up to speed, and that Where Nothing Gathers and the entirety of The World That Never Was is immune to the time travel rules because it's not even supposed to exist.

Simplest answer is this wasn't the game to show off a new wardrobe for Lea. Long-winded answer could be any number of reasons, some of them tied to why he and Isa wanted to infiltrate the castle. They might have been in the room when the incident occurred and lost their bodies as a result (they might have even been a trigger). Or one or both were allowed in and experimented on. Lea could have been testing the effectiveness of the coat when it happened. We don't know.

We *do* know that it happened when he and Isa were relatively young still, and their bodies matured as Nobodies. His old clothes would not have fit him well at all and to get around that they left him in a coat. Or, that's my reasoning for it.



They're going to make us wait until E3, aren't they? Near-simultaneous launch in the works? A man can dream.

Personally, I think Lea was still accessing the Corridors of Darkness to get around. No keyblade armor or glider and no gummi ship, so he would need the coat to avoid the corrupting effect. Now that he's made it to the tower, the fairies can make him some clothes.

I think the gap between Japanese and International release is going to be smaller than ever, assuming it even exists.

So in short, we don't know or can't be sure. In any case, trying to explain the unexplainable is a tiring exercise.

Fucking tell me about it T___T

People give me shit about it, but I still say that Kingdom Hearts has poor storytelling. Great story conveyed in the most obtuse ways.

 

[badcrumble]

The first KH3 trailer that actually shows anything whatsoever about the story (beyond Sora picking up Master Eraqus' keyblade on Destiny Island beach and whatever the implications of that are) is going to drive this thread kind of bonkers because it will probably obviate 95% of the speculation in here and confirm 5% of it. I hope people have fun with it when that happens instead of getting mad.

 

[zeemumu]

The first KH3 trailer that actually shows anything whatsoever about the story (beyond Sora picking up Master Eraqus' keyblade on Destiny Island beach and whatever the implications of that are) is going to drive this thread kind of bonkers because it will probably obviate 95% of the speculation in here and confirm 5% of it. I hope people have fun with it when that happens instead of getting mad.

I assume Sora picking up Master Eraqus' keyblade means that Aqua will access the door and it'll take her to Destiny Islands as it did for Sora and Riku in KH2 since she's the one who has that keyblade.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

Hmm.. I guess I should clean up the OP a bit since E3 Is almost here and there's bound to be something KH 3 related.

 

[Caladrius]

Hmm.. I guess I should clean up the OP a bit since E3 Is almost here and there's bound to be something KH 3 related.

No-show for 2 years

Kingdom Hearts III is now Final Fantasy XV-2

 

[Blood Diamonds]

No-show for 2 years

Kingdom Hearts III is now Final Fantasy XV-2

Kingdom Hearts to become a Mobile-only franchise, please be excited.

 

[botty]

Will this be our first year without a KH game?

 

[badcrumble]

Will this be our first year without a KH game?

No, KH 2.5 HD Remix is coming out.

 

[botty]

No, KH 2.5 HD Remix is coming out.

We don't even have a release date yet and it's almost december.

 

[Caladrius]

We don't even have a release date yet and it's almost december.

Wuuuuhhhhh?

Kingdom Hearts to become a Mobile-only franchise, please be excited.

I can't wait for the Kingdom Hearts V-CAST remake.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

Wuuuuhhhhh?



I can't wait for the Kingdom Hearts V-CAST remake.

unlock new worlds for 2.99 each or pay $45 to unlock all of the worlds!!

 

[badcrumble]

We don't even have a release date yet and it's almost december.

i'm just going to charitably assume you moved from the northern hemisphere to the southern hemisphere or vice versa and then got very confused about how calendars work

 

[Malyse]

Will this be our first year without a KH game?

No. 2.5 in 2014, RE:3D in 2015

Spoiler

exclusive to Wii U

, III in 2016.

We don't even have a release date yet and it's almost december.

-_-

 

[badcrumble]

RE:3D in 2015

Spoiler

exclusive to Wii U

@_______________@

 

[Caladrius]

unlock new worlds for 2.99 each or pay $45 to unlock all of the worlds!!

You're thinking too small.

You have to make them buy skills and commands too.

@_______________@

That'd be hilarious.

Spoiler

Of course I have a WiiU so...

 

[Malyse]

TBH, I would live for [chi] to be put on Vita or Wii U. Either works for me.

Yes live. So long as it was still supported, I would become functionally immortal.

 

[zeemumu]

TBH, I would live for [chi] to be put on Vita or Wii U. Either works for me.

Yes live. So long as it was still supported, I would become functionally immortal.

I feel like Wii U would be better because the interface wouldn't be cluttered if they split it between the screens.

 

[Malyse]

 

[Malyse]

I've been thinking about how Square has been iterating on their other major franchise, Final Fantasy and how they've constantly been playing around with the concept of leveling up, particularly in FFX and FFXIII (at its most extreme in the "no grind" Lightning Returns). Seeing the direction that FFXV is taking only further my thesis. But that's tangential to my main point, which is this: How would you feel about Kingdom Hearts stepping away from the conceits of the RPG Genre? Specifically, leveling up. What if the games became something more akin to the Devil May Cry franchise: you start with a certain set of abilities and have the opportunity to gain more. Defeating heartless would afford you some type of points that could be exchanged to power up abilities (AKA more throws for Strike Raid or adding elemental affinity for Sonic Blade). HP and MP increases rely on defeating bosses and collecting some macguffin (a la Blue and Purple Orbs from the aforementioned DMC). Playwise, it wouldn't change, save the stakes from early worlds would only be lessened threats due to your attack arsenal (Let's be honest. Endgame in KH1, you couldn't die in Traverse Town unless you tried). Could you play that kind of Kingdom Hearts? Would you?

 

[Blood Diamonds]

Hmmm... I could see KH taking the FF X/XIII route and having something like the sphere. Especially if multiple characters are playable. Actually, didn't Dream Drop Distance already have something like the sphere? But anyway, I would be open to a progression system similar to DMC, since I love that type of progress because grinding doesn't really feel like grinding.

 

[SoraanTribal]

I've been thinking about how Square has been iterating on their other major franchise, Final Fantasy and how they've constantly been playing around with the concept of leveling up, particularly in FFX and FFXIII (at its most extreme in the "no grind" Lightning Returns). Seeing the direction that FFXV is taking only further my thesis. But that's tangential to my main point, which is this: How would you feel about Kingdom Hearts stepping away from the conceits of the RPG Genre? Specifically, leveling up. What if the games became something more akin to the Devil May Cry franchise: you start with a certain set of abilities and have the opportunity to gain more. Defeating heartless would afford you some type of points that could be exchanged to power up abilities (AKA more throws for Strike Raid or adding elemental affinity for Sonic Blade). HP and MP increases rely on defeating bosses and collecting some macguffin (a la Blue and Purple Orbs from the aforementioned DMC). Playwise, it wouldn't change, save the stakes from early worlds would only be lessened threats due to your attack arsenal (Let's be honest. Endgame in KH1, you couldn't die in Traverse Town unless you tried). Could you play that kind of Kingdom Hearts? Would you?

I wouldn't be completely opposed to this type of progression system. I mean, as long as we still can customize our character with like armor, weapons, etc (like in KH2/FM). That said, I'm expecting there to still be "levels" and such in KH3.

 

[Malyse]

I wouldn't be completely opposed to this type of progression system. I mean, as long as we still can customize our character with like armor, weapons, etc (like in KH2/FM). That said, I'm expecting there to still be "levels" and such in KH3.

Oh I'm certain. But I think KH4 will be a new entry point for the series and reset a lot of the lore. SE isn't going to want to do another set of HD collections to catch everyone up again in ten years, so expect 4 to drop a lot of the ongoing plots to start over fresh.

 

[SoraanTribal]

Oh I'm certain. But I think KH4 will be a new entry point for the series and reset a lot of the lore. SE isn't going to want to do another set of HD collections to catch everyone up again in ten years, so expect 4 to drop a lot of the ongoing plots to start over fresh.

Oh yeah, I definitely think KH4 will drop most of the on-going story related stuff and start over fresh with a new adventure completely unrelated to the Xehanort saga. It's gonna be interesting to see where it goes from there. I hope they keep some of the characters as I've grown quite attached to them (especially the BBS crew, Riku, Roxas, etc).

 

[zeemumu]

Oh yeah, I definitely think KH4 will drop most of the on-going story related stuff and start over fresh with a new adventure completely unrelated to the Xehanort saga. It's gonna be interesting to see where it goes from there. I hope they keep some of the characters as I've grown quite attached to them (especially the BBS crew, Riku, Roxas, etc).

KH4 will reset the series like a DBZ story arc would, basically. The aftereffects of the previous story arc (Xehanort) will be minimal so that there aren't any continuity errors or plot holes holding the story back from branching out wherever it wants.

 

[Malyse]

Oh yeah, I definitely think KH4 will drop most of the on-going story related stuff and start over fresh with a new adventure completely unrelated to the Xehanort saga. It's gonna be interesting to see where it goes from there. I hope they keep some of the characters as I've grown quite attached to them (especially the BBS crew, Riku, Roxas, etc).

KH4 will reset the series like a DBZ story arc would, basically. The aftereffects of the previous story arc (Xehanort) will be minimal so that there aren't any continuity errors or plot holes holding the story back from branching out wherever it wants.

Even less. The previous crew will likely take on Yamcha levels of importance.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

I still think levels should be tied to a Diablo esque talent/skill trees. Everybody loves skill trees.

Well it would still be an RPG but whatever. I don't think SE will change basic leveling up but I don't really care personally if the new system is ok. Not to say a leveling system can't suck too.

 

[Falk]

Outside of western MMORPGS (and then not even all of them) JRPGs tend to have much better grasp on scaling. Final Fantasies have typically gone from 10 to 9999 as far as numbers go (with 10 onwards extending that to 99999) and stuff like Disgaea goes all the way up to 10,000,000,000 as a trophy, and yet it still makes sense in a pure number-crunching standpoint. Even Lightning Returns, with its absence of conventional levelling mechanics, still manages to preserve that sense of character power level progression seemingly inherent to the genre.

Kingdom Hearts scales on a much smaller level, but it's still there. It's a far cry from the hilariously absurd and phoned-in numbers that you typically see outside of the genre (hey, you levelled from 80 to 81, cool, here have 10 more stamina points on top of your 500+ lol) so it doesn't really matter to me what kind of levelling/power-up mechanics FFX/KH3 have as long as they preserve that.

edit: Essentially implementation > concept.

 

[badcrumble]

The best thing KH has generally succeeded at is making your abilities feel more important than your stats (even though that's not necessarily true, what matters is that the game makes it feel that way).

That, and the excellent bonus level system.

 

[badcrumble]

I've actually got some work kicking around on my thoughts on a high-quality character progression system, and the KH franchise figures pretty heavily into it.

I think it's important for the games to have a strong "base" for playable characters, but also strong "modifiers." Modifiers are things like accessories, Keyblades (and the ways Keyblades affect Sora), and any extent to which abilities require AP to be equipped. "Base" would be things like any permanently-learned abilities that are equipped at zero cost (such as basically every passive ability in Birth By Sleep, upgrades from e.g. Fira to Firaga in KH1/2, and upgrades obtained to drive/shotlock/whatever meters).

I think it's important that the base Sora (or whichever playable character) should feel a strong sense of progression, but also that further modifiers gained in-game should feel like they bring a lot of variation and options to the table (a good example of this is the great variety imparted by the ability trees attached to Re:Coded's keyblades).

All this can be achieved while rendering stats largely irrelevant, and that's something I'd enjoy seeing; progression that comes from unlocking a new ability always feels more rewarding than progression that comes from having your stats go up, IMO.

 

[Malyse]

I've actually got some work kicking around on my thoughts on a high-quality character progression system, and the KH franchise figures pretty heavily into it.

I think it's important for the games to have a strong "base" for playable characters, but also strong "modifiers." Modifiers are things like accessories, Keyblades (and the ways Keyblades affect Sora), and any extent to which abilities require AP to be equipped. "Base" would be things like any permanently-learned abilities that are equipped at zero cost (such as basically every passive ability in Birth By Sleep, upgrades from e.g. Fira to Firaga in KH1/2, and upgrades obtained to drive/shotlock/whatever meters).

I think it's important that the base Sora (or whichever playable character) should feel a strong sense of progression, but also that further modifiers gained in-game should feel like they bring a lot of variation and options to the table (a good example of this is the great variety imparted by the ability trees attached to Re:Coded's keyblades).

All this can be achieved while rendering stats largely irrelevant, and that's something I'd enjoy seeing; progression that comes from unlocking a new ability always feels more rewarding than progression that comes from having your stats go up, IMO.

Which is more or less the suggestion.

 

[badcrumble]

Which is more or less the suggestion.

Mostly, yeah. But I think it's still important to have some "character build" stuff going on for variety's sake, something which the DMC series only really has in DMC3 (with the choice of Style and the decision of which weapons to equip). And given that Sora's actual combat style is unlikely to change based on equipping different weapons (although Drive Forms and Command Styles accomplish something like it, albeit clearly as a "power up" over the character's ordinary Keyblade melee stance/combo/finishers), a lot of that equippable-variety in terms of *action* abilities wouldn't necessarily cross over.

Re:Coded provides a great mode for swappable sets of passive abilities, though, that is way more interesting than the (increasingly deprecated) "accessory" system in the KH games.

I'd love to see KH give each Keyblade a thoroughly different combat style, don't get me wrong, but I don't expect it.

 

[SoraanTribal]

Hmm, how do you think KH3 will handle multiple characters? Will we play as only Sora? If not, will it involve separate campaigns ala BBS? Or will it flow in and out of the story naturally? I mentioned this previously, but I'd really love if there was a party system where you could have up to 3 characters with you. You could play as Sora, Aqua, Ventus, Riku, Lea, etc and switch them in and out of your party (similar to other JRPGs). I know this is extremely unlikely to happen, but I think it would be cool.

 

[badcrumble]

Hmm, how do you think KH3 will handle multiple characters? Will we play as only Sora? If not, will it involve separate campaigns ala BBS? Or will it flow in and out of the story naturally? I mentioned this previously, but I'd really love if there was a party system where you could have up to 3 characters with you. You could play as Sora, Aqua, Ventus, Riku, Lea, etc and switch them in and out of your party (similar to other JRPGs). I know this is extremely unlikely to happen, but I think it would be cool.

I'd rather have more than three simultaneous characters, frankly. I think that the days of memory limitations dictating a smaller party size are at an end, and games can balance themselves perfectly well to adjust to bigger or smaller party size, IMO (and both KH1 and KH2 have you move between having one, two, or three party members just fine - no reason that number can't go above four).

As for multiple playable characters, I think I'd love to see multiple campaigns. And to be completely crystal-clear, I expect it *in some form*. Every single Team Osaka game so far has had multiple playable campaigns (Re:CoM, BBS, and DDD), but the implementation of that has been different each time. Re:CoM has one campaign unlock after you finish the 'main' game; BBS lets you choose between the three campaigns right from the start, but unlocks a concluding chapter in a manner not too dissimilar from the way that Reverse/Rebirth gets unlocked; DDD interweaves both campaigns through each other).

However, as much as the Team Osaka games have historically had multiple campaigns, it's also worth noting that the numbered KH entries have not. Both of those precedents are important. We'll have to wait and see how KH3 handles things.

IN TERMS OF GAMEPLAY, though, I definitely wouldn't be surprised if the game gives us the ability to toggle between which character we're controlling. Would this result in playable Mickey/Donald/Goofy/world-specific Disney assists, though? Would only Keyblade wielders be playable? It's hard to say.

 

[badcrumble]

That's all generalized speculation about what I think is fairly likely. I want to draw a firm line between that and what's in this post, which is something I think would be *neat* but can't necessarily say is *likely.*

I think it'd be cool to replace the idea of the Drive Form with some sort of Heart Dive mode, in which Sora could basically merge with another party member and temporarily control them while also significantly powering them up. It'd be something of a cross between lead-character-control-switching, Drive Forms, and BBS's D-Links, but limited solely to characters currently present in the party.

Something like this could also fairly obviously have in-story ramifications (not too dissimilar from what was done in the Ventus/Vanitas boss battle where you can access a Vanitas D-Link). Diving into Ventus' heart to wake him, diving into Terranort's heart in order to knock Master Xehanort out of Terra's body... et cetera. And given how strongly the series has emphasized Sora's links to his friends through his heart (and how much stronger that emphasis will become in KH3 given that it's partly going to be about rescuing the assorted people most strongly linked to Sora's heart), it'd fit in with the mythology reasonably easily.

It'd also be a good way to make a bunch of different characters playable within a single campaign, if that's a problem that Team Osaka wants to solve.

I want to repeat, though, that this is more of an imagined possibility than informed speculation.