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Kobe Bryant slinging homophobic slur during nationally televised NBA game
- Thread starter Aruarian Reflection
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And now you say I can't read when you have not read my reply to you at all. You said no one has it as bad as black people. That is not true. Plenty of non black people have it worse, and plenty of black people have it good. That is my point you seem to have missed. But carry on being a victim.Londa said:
Edit: You know what, forget it. I'll leave my original post there, but just forget it. You feel one way, and that's fine, but you might want to consider some other perspectives on things before you decide what nebulous group has it the worst.
You just sat there and said that I believe blacks only have it bad. You are now covering your tracks. I also like it how people continue to bring up places outside of the US even tho this is about what happen in the US. I'm some how evil for talking about the US only.Dead Man said:
If you live outside of the US how do you know how it is here? I'm living in the US as a black, but you seem to know more than even I.
I don't understand why black people -have- to have suffered more than gay people. I don't know why this always happens. Homosexuals suffer a lot, and they have suffered a lot. Black people suffer a lot, and have suffered a lot - there is absolutely no logical point to argue about who suffers more. They both suffer a lot, and that's all that matters. This thread has changed since last night.
Holy shit. I never said you think ONLY blacks have it bad. Quote me where I said that. I have lived in the US, just because I don't live there now does not mean I know nothing about it. Do I need to live in Uganda to know gay people are executed by mobs? No. Did I need to live in and of several central African nations to know ethnic cleansing was occurring? No. You however did say this:Londa said:
The most incorrect statement I have seen on GAF today.
Now, as long as you continue to spout rubbish that is not about me, I'm done with you. If you want to continue to fail reading comprehension, I may feel the need to reply to you again.
Great post. I feel this is very true.Kinitari said:
I think some people need to feel like victims, and cannot stand any comparison being made with whatever their situation is, even if it is an honest one not comparing best and worst, but similarities of situation and language. But you are right in that it may not have been the best choice of words given this thread.jorma said:
travisbickle
Member
numble said:
Wayne Rooney received a two match ban for saying "you fuckin' what" at a match that was televised on Sky Sports. Don't know what the fine was, Drogba was fined £30,000 for saying "fuckin' disgrace" about a ref. I don't know about any homophobic or racial slurs, but the FA try to do an anti-something campaign every year so there's probably examples.
Great post (although the thread was exactly the same last night) but more importantly, is that a sperm-based superhero in your avatar?Kinitari said:
It's not really like that. It's more that one group wished to demonstrate the harm of the slur in question by equating it to the closest analogous slur and then the second group were not happy about that and then the first group have to provide examples for why they feel the slur is analogous and then you end up where we are now. Kinda.richiek said:
travisbickle
Member
Londa said:
Homosexual acts were illegal in some states of the USA until 2003, there is a lot of hatred in America for gay people, from religious groups, right wing organisations, and high profile sports stars.
Well that looks like it's just for cursing. Cursing is pretty much tolerated in the NBA (see Kevin Garnett). And if they curse at a ref, players are regularly fined for that (technical fouls carry mandatory fines). The fine here was not for the action of cursing at a ref, but for the substantive content of the statement.travisbickle said:
SmokyDave said:
It's a sketch of a minotaur
. I'm playing a minotaur in the GAF DnD game.So that's how it started? Maybe instead of 'nigger' for comparasion, we should start using 'kike' or something - the point wasn't to single out black people and say "Hey black people, your suffering is just on par with homosexuals" - it was simply to connect more emotionally with people and stir some empathy.
Yeah, that's why I started using non black examples. I don't know why I got so fired up, but I'm better now. My intention was never to start a suffering competition, apologies to anyone if they thought that.Kinitari said:It's a sketch of a minotaur
So that's how it started? Maybe instead of 'nigger' for comparasion, we should start using 'kike' or something - the point wasn't to single out black people and say "Hey black people, your suffering is just on par with homosexuals" - it was simply to connect more emotionally with people and stir some empathy.
ChocolateCupcakes
Member
Really? The comparing minorities again? That will get you nowhere. Its purely subjective if you think they are equal or not. You just can't compare emotions.
Masked Man
I said wow
Londa said:
I think you misconstrued what I said. In no way did I intend to compare the histories of suffering of black people and gay people: playing the "Olympics of Suffering" game is neither appropriate nor constructive in any way. My point, however, was that the use of derogatory terms referring to either group--"nigger" and "faggot," respectively--serves to reinforce the marginalization of both groups, and to perpetuate any and all associations of negative qualities with these groups.
Admittedly, I couldn't care less about Kobe. My real concern is that people refuse to acknowledge that, regardless of the "intent" or "context" of what he said, the word "faggot" carries the implicit association of "wrongness" or "unnaturalness" with homosexuality. As has been addressed in this thread, Kobe could have easily substituted "motherfucker," "dumbass," or any number of other expletives in order to verbally fulfill his "intent." Instead, he chose "faggot," a derogatory term for a male homosexual.
Even though he (probably) didn't mean to imply that the referee in question was gay, the fact of the matter is that the word itself is intrinsically linked to homosexuality--and is officially defined as such. And, moreover, by using "faggot" instead of any other expletive, Kobe inadvertently reinforced the idea that homosexuality is inherently wrong or a negative characteristic. It has little to do with what he intended and everything to do with the fact that he said it. My disappointment with Kobe comes from the fact that, as a person of considerable notoriety and (perhaps) social influence, he should make good use of his position and send an explicit message that this sort of hateful language is not acceptable in any situation--perhaps as a PSA, or something.
More appalling than anything though, is the fact that people in this thread are vehemently defending the use of the word as if they had been personally offended by being told that "faggot" is a gay slur. I understand the discomfort one endures when told that he or she is wrong or that he or she has done something offensive, but fighting back is unproductive and reflects poorly upon the individual.
What I hope is that people will take even just a moment to reflect upon the idea that words like "faggot" are offensive because of the associations that they carry and that maaaaybe it would behoove people to opt for something less tinged with prejudice. I understand that people get angry and say hurtful things "in the heat of the moment," but there are plenty of other ways to verbally express one's anger without using gay or racial slurs.
Devolution
Member
Londa stop playing oppression olympics in here, who the fuck cares who had it worse, shouldn't we strive to make it better for anyone being oppressed?
People were comparing I replied to it. Who are you to tell me anything? I'm well into the form rules. If people are going to do the "if someone said nigger" complaint, I'm well in my right to say gay issues are different.Devolution said:
Dont tell me I'm acting oppressed, I was not complaining. If someone non black used my same word you could even say that to them.
LQX
Member
Seeing some of you argue back and fourth I think can see better how there will always be tension between black activist and gay activists in America about equating the struggles of both.
Not to say one peoples burdens should outweigh the other but I don't see how equating the struggles of the two helps the other seeing as how it will cause tension more than anything because of how far back the struggles of blacks in America go in comparison to gays.
Some 250 years of slavery on top of another 60 or so years of segregation I am not sure should be boiled down and equated to the gay struggle which is still in its infancy by comparison. Even the fact being gay is outlawed in some countries and punishable by death should not be comparable as that is going out of the realms of trying to equate the struggles of blacks in America to gays in America. You might as well then bring up what Europe as done and continue to do the African continent.
In the end I don't see how piggybacking the oppression of blacks while dismissing ramification it as had on them puts you both on equal footing to fight a supposed common struggle. That is just creating a bitterness more than anything as it almost like cheating off the person next to you while giving them nasty looks.
Not to say one peoples burdens should outweigh the other but I don't see how equating the struggles of the two helps the other seeing as how it will cause tension more than anything because of how far back the struggles of blacks in America go in comparison to gays.
Some 250 years of slavery on top of another 60 or so years of segregation I am not sure should be boiled down and equated to the gay struggle which is still in its infancy by comparison. Even the fact being gay is outlawed in some countries and punishable by death should not be comparable as that is going out of the realms of trying to equate the struggles of blacks in America to gays in America. You might as well then bring up what Europe as done and continue to do the African continent.
In the end I don't see how piggybacking the oppression of blacks while dismissing ramification it as had on them puts you both on equal footing to fight a supposed common struggle. That is just creating a bitterness more than anything as it almost like cheating off the person next to you while giving them nasty looks.
Shin Dynamo X
Banned
You know, the real issue here isn't even whether Kobe was wrong for saying it. Of COURSE he shouldn't have said it, but he was impassioned and involved in the intensity of the moment.....but it doesn't make it right.
The problem here is that the collective press and many here think that they are the morality police, and that all these PC organizations 'speaking out' against this think it's their place to tell us what we should and shouldn't do.
The PC machine won't be happy until every one of us conduct ourselves exactly to meet their level of sensitivity. It's brainwashing liberal fascism. On a larger scale, I'm not required to live my life at the level of someone else's sensitivity, and neither is Kobe. It goes for cuss words as well, and I know that a TON of you swear here on the regular.
They aren't bothered by the fact that their lifestyle offends me, so why should I be bothered by the fact that my words offend them? Same goes for the many atheists here VS. those that believe in God. Both parties offend each other and both end up canceling yourselves out.
For example: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427359
I was offended by the language of the 1st poster due to blaspheming Jesus Christ. But then again, this poster should not have to cater to my level of sensitivity.
The problem here is that the collective press and many here think that they are the morality police, and that all these PC organizations 'speaking out' against this think it's their place to tell us what we should and shouldn't do.
The PC machine won't be happy until every one of us conduct ourselves exactly to meet their level of sensitivity. It's brainwashing liberal fascism. On a larger scale, I'm not required to live my life at the level of someone else's sensitivity, and neither is Kobe. It goes for cuss words as well, and I know that a TON of you swear here on the regular.
They aren't bothered by the fact that their lifestyle offends me, so why should I be bothered by the fact that my words offend them? Same goes for the many atheists here VS. those that believe in God. Both parties offend each other and both end up canceling yourselves out.
For example: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427359
I was offended by the language of the 1st poster due to blaspheming Jesus Christ. But then again, this poster should not have to cater to my level of sensitivity.
Mercury Fred
Banned
LQX said:
Oh give me a fucking break.
I lol'dShin Dynamo X said:
Londa said:
The problem is that the word "nigger" has all sorts of understandably nasty connotations - and so does the word "faggot." You're saying that it's invalid to compare "nigger" to "faggot" at all because blacks have suffered far worse in history compared to gays - but that's not the point. It doesn't matter who suffered worse, what matters is the fact that both groups have a very personal and negative history associated with those words respectively. Are blacks associations with the word "nigger" generally worse? Sure, if you want to win the oppression olympics they are. But that doesn't invalidate gay people's reaction to the word "faggot" being tossed about because of what that represents to US.
Shin Dynamo X
Banned
LQX said:
Hell, the biggest advantage many gays have is that many of them are white. Black gays and other homosexual races are screwed twice.
Gay behavior is very subjective from person to person, and not a guarantee that one will act a certain way. Some here would never know a person was gay unless they told you. Basically, who gays are attracted to mainly defines who they are. That is not the case with oppressed minorities...you are black, asian, latino, etc. regardless.
Dahellisdat
Member
.Gaborn said:
Mercury Fred
Banned
Yes, giving you mean looks while I cheat off of your paper!LQX said:
Mission accomplished.
theignoramus
Member
Will this have a 30+ page thread?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/14/gay-claim-ejected-pub-kissing
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/14/gay-claim-ejected-pub-kissing
Mercury Fred
Banned
And it looks like Mr. Rapist is going to appeal the fine.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/2011-04-13-BRYANTSLUR_N.htm
But he still takes "responsibility." What a stand up guy!
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/2011-04-13-BRYANTSLUR_N.htm
But he still takes "responsibility." What a stand up guy!
Devolution
Member
Londa said:
Both words come from the same place, it doesn't matter which minority you think had it ostensibly worse. The fact of the matter is people bring up "nigger" because it's got the same connotations and usage as "faggot." This is not up for debate, and I have no idea why it would be to people who actually want to discuss oppression in a real and effectual way.
I mean shit if we want to play oppression olympics, I think first place goes to the Native Americans, go find one, and I'm not talking someone like me who can cite a distant relative and say they're part NA. How many tribes were culled? How many mascots do we still use despite how racist and vile they are towards native peoples? Hell there is a team still called the "redskins." At least there aren't teams called "the niggers" or "the faggots." But really, what's the point of playing this game when people of other minorities are still being oppressed. When you play this kind of game you're just diminishing the suffering of others because "omg it's never been as bad for them." But that's just another form of bigotry, really. Assuming that another group can't complain because "they haven't suffered like I have." Really that's great thinking there that will lead to a lot of progress for everyone.
Mercury Fred
Banned
Well, you just posted in it, so you tell me.Omiee said:
Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
Omiee said:
Off topic, but aren't you the guy who is a diehard Lakers fan but has only visited L.A. twice? :lol
Devolution
Member
Londa said:
Except they're used the same way, to insult a person based on an inherent fact about themselves that they cannot change. Or to demean someone by calling them such a word, because they imply a certain inferiority.
Mercury Fred said:
i dont get whats still left to be talked about, the guy made a mistake and said something in anger he should not have done, he was fined so let this rest.
Aruarian Reflection said:
what does that have to do with being a diehard fan or not, and its 3 times and this year became the 4th time.
and i watch all their games on league pass so whats the problem.
lol
Devolution
Member
Shin Dynamo X said:
Except any sort of "effeminate" behavior is targeted as "faggoty." Not to mention someone can find out another person's sexual orientation and use it against them in various forms. And actually no one is doing homosexuals any favors by saying they can just hide it because it's not a skin color, that makes discrimination against them all the more "okay" or "insidious". Gosh guys and gals just act in the confines of "straightness" and no one will be the wiser. No one should have to hide who they are just to avoid oppression.
no, they are used differently, with one being used among friends. its really funny in here. You have to say stuff three times before people get what you are saying. Dev, you are doing a beautiful job. At trolling. You ignore most of what I say and then continue on your rampage. I told you I'm not doing your so called "Oppression Olympics". But it looks like you are.Devolution said:
Devolution
Member
Londa said:
You were certainly playing Oppression Olympics earlier, what's the matter now? You're just gonna keep saying "but they're used different" and not provide context as to why? They're the same, they're slurs used to diminish a marginalized group and both have the same context of being thrown around when people have been beaten, mutilated or even killed. So what's your point here?
Devolution
Member
commish said:
I don't know who you are but all your posts in here have been hilariously ignorant and terrible.
yeah, it'd probably be better for him to just pay it and let it blow over to be honest. appealing it is just going to piss some people off and make the whole thing hang over him longer.TangMeng said:
seriously? how is calling someone a faggot or some other slur the same as taking the lord's name in vain?oneHeero said:
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