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[commish]

Yup. Also, try calling your boss at work a "fucking fag" and see what kind of response you get.

Call you boss at work a "Fucking chicken" and see what kind of response you get. Call your boss a "fucking idiot" and see what kind of response.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Let's say you have a friend who is white. He gets into a HUGE argument with a friend who is black. They're both seething with each other. The white friend walks away and you hear him say "fucking nigger" softly. Is there any way you'd just chalk it up to his anger?

I thought this was about a straight person calling another straight person a faggot?

 

[LyleLanley]

1. It was caught on tape.

2. It was towards a ref.

3. It was a specific slur with a long history against a particular group.

Like I said, I'd treat someone who used a slur against other groups similarly.

1 & 2 I can agree with. The NBA has to protect it's image and definitely should not stand for any kind of verbal attack against it's refs.

But as for number 3, I don't see how this is is so much worse than what is constantly being said by athletes.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

 

[Gaborn]

Why does it have to be a black vs white racist scenario?

Why not? It's the same comparison in any case. If you prefer say it was two white guys arguing and you hear the one walks away use the word "Kike." Would you give that a pass? Why is that any word that Kobe would use no matter how angry he gets? I don't use words like that if I'm angry with someone.

I thought this was about a straight person calling another straight person a faggot?

How do you know the ref is straight?

 

[oneHeero]

I'd go far as to even agree with you. Anyone can be offended at anything, my issue isn't with the word being spoken, but the idea that some people put forth that the word "faggot" is no longer offensive. It is, it's extremely offensive to a large portion of people. I'm sure making fun of religion does the same thing.

Just to be clear, my point is never "this is absolutely right, and this is absolutely wrong" - I would love to have my sense of morality be universal, but it doesn't work that way. All I want is for people to understand, you offend gay people with the word faggot, greatly so - maybe not all, but enough that if you don't want to throw around offensive slurs that target homosexuals, maybe stop using that word. If you don't care, well, do whatever you want.

I agree as well. Although I think everyone who is saying "get over it" in one variation or another is the bolded already. People who are arguing otherwise are people like Devo, btk, etc. People who are saying its no big deal are basically saying the bold.

 

[BakedPigeon]

but he's not paying for it. he's appealing it.

He definitely is paying for it whatever way you want to look at it.

 

[SUPREME1]

Defending Kobe on the rape issue is a loser of a position. You're in the minority, there, if you think just because he didn't go on trial he's innocent.

I'm just saying it was never even close to proven. So why does everyone automatically side with the "he's a rapist" camp?

I'd be more inclined to side with them myself, if the girl in question wasn't extremely promiscuous and/or did not have the DNA of 3+ men on her panties. Rape victims also usually don't admit to having sex the very next day after being raped.



So yeah. It might not be the popular position, but I'll stick with it.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

How do you know the ref is straight?

Is he not?

 

[SUPREME1]

I think a fine that would actually cause him to rethink his behavior is reasonable, yes. Kobe isn't going to hardly NOTICE a 100k fine, I guarantee you he'd notice a $605,000 fine. Tie fines to game checks to actually affect superstars.

So you want one group of people to be treated differently than others?

LMAO!!

 

[Kinitari]

I agree as well. Although I think everyone who is saying "get over it" in one variation or another is the bolded already. People who are arguing otherwise are people like Devo, btk, etc. People who are saying its no big deal are basically saying the bold.

Eh, a part of me worries that some people in this thread still (I know they were earlier) were insisting that faggot should no longer be considered offensive, or at least in the context, it shouldn't be offensive to gay people. The people in the thread who think the gay lifestyle is offensive, and they don't care if they offend them by using the word - well, there is no point arguing with them.

 

[Gaborn]

1 & 2 I can agree with. The NBA has to protect it's image and definitely should not stand for any kind of verbal attack against it's refs.

But as for number 3, I don't see how this is is so much worse than what is constantly being said by athletes.

Let's say he used a different slur. Kike. Wop. Chink. Jap. Pick your poison. He'd have been suspended.

Supreme - nope. I want all fines to be based on game checks.

 

[LyleLanley]

I'm just saying it was never even close to proven. So why does everyone automatically side with the "he's a rapist" camp?

I'd be more inclined to side with them myself, if the girl in question wasn't extremely promiscuous and/or did not have the DNA of 3+ men on her panties. Rape victims also usually don't admit to having sex the very next day after being raped.



So yeah. It might not be the popular position, but I'll stick with it.

What the hell?

She admitted to being raped so she must be full of shit!

Edit:

Let's say he used a different slur. Kike. Wop. Chink. Jap. Pick your poison. He'd have been suspended.

No, he wouldn't have.

 

[Kinitari]

Let's say he used a different slur. Kike. Wop. Chink. Jap. Pick your poison. He'd have been suspended.

I just learned what kike was a few weeks ago, I'm afraid to google wop. What group does wop apply to?

 

[ZephyrFate]

Lets stop laying the little bitch scenario and talk like humans here. He obviously offended people, but I do not think he really intended to offend someone personally. His emotions got the better of him and he is paying for it. What is the big fucking deal.

"Little bitch scenario"? What the fuck does that even mean?

Talking like humans? Do you even see what you're saying and how ridiculous it sounds? If I drop the n-word into a conversation, even if I never intended to offend anyone, should it be swept under the rug because of differing intent? I don't think that would happen at all.

 

[oneHeero]

Why not? It's the same comparison in any case. If you prefer say it was two white guys arguing and you hear the one walks away use the word "Kike." Would you give that a pass? Why is that any word that Kobe would use no matter how angry he gets? I don't use words like that if I'm angry with someone.



How do you know the ref is straight?

O ok, now we're clear guys. Everyone stop what your arguing, if Gaborn doesnt say anything offensive when hes angry then no one else should either.

Case closed.

 

[Gaborn]

O ok, now we're clear guys. Everyone stop what your arguing, if Gaborn doesnt say anything offensive when hes angry then no one else should either.

Case closed.

I didn't say I didn't say ANYTHING offensive. I said I don't attack an individual characteristic like that. If somebody uses a slur like that just because they're angry they deserve to be harshly condemned much moreso than Kobe got.

Kinitari - Italians.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

I just learned what kike was a few weeks ago, I'm afraid to google wop. What group does wop apply to?

I think its the Italians.

 

[oneHeero]

"Little bitch scenario"? What the fuck does that even mean?

Talking like humans? Do you even see what you're saying and how ridiculous it sounds? If I drop the n-word into a conversation, even if I never intended to offend anyone, should it be swept under the rug because of differing intent? I don't think that would happen at all.

Still depends on the context imo. Are you calling your friend nigga casually? Or you using nigger? Let's get this straight, neither is ok, unfortunately in this world, not in some fucken magical world, 1 is more ok to say then another. Is it right? no, is it ok? no. Can it ever be stopped? No. So we have to use our own judgement, its clear that most gaf doesnt fine it ok to ever use such words but we cant impose the same ideals onto anyone else and call it a day.

 

[Londa]

I'm going to repost something I said earlier.



What's your opinion Londa?

That whole made up situation sounds dumb.

 

[oneHeero]

I didn't say I didn't say ANYTHING offensive. I said I don't attack an individual characteristic like that. If somebody uses a slur like that just because they're angry they deserve to be harshly condemned much moreso than Kobe got.

Kinitari - Italians.

So wtf, I dont get this. Is there a degree of how offensive one's comment can be now? Because everyone is saying its not ok to use such words, unfortunately it was used and no I dont think someone like kobe should be under more scrutiny. Just because other's find him to be a role model doesnt mean I have to find him to be one and subject him to the same morals as gaf is implying.

EDIT: poor wording used.

 

[numble]

Let's say he used a different slur. Kike. Wop. Chink. Jap. Pick your poison. He'd have been suspended.

Where is the precedent for this? They don't suspend unless there's a physical altercation, criminal allegations or drugs. They fine for remarks, though.

Charles Barkley has been blatantly racist against European players and Kevin Garnett is blatantly racist against white guards. Larry Bird was racist against white opposing players.

 

[BakedPigeon]

"Little bitch scenario"? What the fuck does that even mean?

Talking like humans? Do you even see what you're saying and how ridiculous it sounds? If I drop the n-word into a conversation, even if I never intended to offend anyone, should it be swept under the rug because of differing intent? I don't think that would happen at all.

If you ask me, yes you should. you should not have said it because it offends people but at the same time if it just happened i would not care. Like many of said though, lots of people grew up using faggot as something not trying to degrade gay people.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I just learned what kike was a few weeks ago, I'm afraid to google wop. What group does wop apply to?

WOP = WithOut Papers for italians.

 

[SUPREME1]

What the hell?

She admitted to being raped so she must be full of shit!

Edit:



No, he wouldn't have.

Herp Derp McLerp VonBerp

 

[ZephyrFate]

If you ask me, yes you should. you should not have said it because it offends people but at the same time if it just happened i would not care. Like many of said though, lots of people grew up using faggot as something not trying to degrade gay people.

But that doesn't mean its overarching and more prevalent meaning of degrading gay people disappears. The reason you were able to grow up saying faggot in your childhood is precisely because it's an incredibly common slur against gay people, and it's still 100% of the time refers to a gay person whether you mean it or not.

 

[Kinitari]

That whole made up situation sounds dumb.

Well these things are made up for a reason. But play pretend. You seem to think one word is worse than the other, so they shouldn't be compared - so this should be an easy answer for you - who should be more offended? And if you can, on a scale from 1 to 10, how offended should the black person be, and how offended should the gay person be? Black guy 9, gay guy 7? Maybe 6?

 

[Rikyfree]

Read the article. Sheesh, looking for anything to cry over, huh? WTG. Since I apparently can't call them what they are really acting like, I'll just label them as pussies.

 

[LyleLanley]

Herp Derp McLerp VonBerp

It all makes sense now.

 

[Vicetrailia]

When players are fined where does the money go?

 

[ZephyrFate]

Read the article. Sheesh, looking for anything to cry over, huh? WTG. Since I apparently can't call them what they are really acting like, I'll just label them as pussies.

So what does a faggot act like? Please, educate me.

 

[SuperBonk]

To be fair, a more accurate example would be if your white friend was getting mad at another white friend for doing something... I don't know, he finds abhorrent, like cockblocking him or something. And instead of saying "Dude, stop being such a cockblocker!" he says "Dude, stop being such a nigger!"

Yeah, exactly. It's the connotation that's the problem.

Calling a white person a "nigger" in such a way connotes that the said person has negative qualities. Since "nigger" is used pretty much exclusively to refer to black people, it also implies that all black people share these negative qualities if only for the fact that they're black.

Calling a straight person (or presumably straight, in the case of this ref) a "faggot" in such a way that Kobe did connotes that the ref had negative qualities. Since "faggot" is used pretty much exclusively* to refer to gays, it also implies that all gay people share these negative qualities if only for the fact that they're gay.

*The argument being that "faggot" may not exclusively refer to gays. I would say that regionally and colloquially (in the US) it does not. However, historically and nationally, it does. My point being that in an ideal world, it should not be, just like with any other derogatory slur. I do not want to police syllables.

 

[Gaborn]

If you ask me, yes you should. you should not have said it because it offends people but at the same time if it just happened i would not care. Like many of said though, lots of people grew up using faggot as something not trying to degrade gay people.

This argument is akin to saying that it's ok for racists to use terms like "nigger" or other racial slurs because that's the way their parents raised them to be. That it's ok for racist singers like "Prussian Blue" to sing their lyrics because their crazy parents raised them racist. Just because your parents didn't stamp out homophobic language doesn't make it not homophobic.

 

[SUPREME1]

When players are fined where does the money go?

The NBA head office.

 

[BakedPigeon]

But that doesn't mean its overarching and more prevalent meaning of degrading gay people disappears. The reason you were able to grow up saying faggot in your childhood is precisely because it's an incredibly common slur against gay people, and it's still 100% of the time refers to a gay person whether you mean it or not.

I grew up saying the N world and the F world until I knew better. I still hear it all the time and I never get bothered by it unless someone is using it in a hateful way. Thats just me. I dont get but hurt about stupid shit.

 

[SUPREME1]

It all makes sense now.

False accusations do not exist in LyleLanleyLand. Utopia.

 

[numble]

When players are fined where does the money go?

When a player receives a technical foul, ejection, suspension (1/90th of his annual salary per game) or other fine, the money is split evenly between the league and Players Association. Each (NBA, NBAPA) then donates its share to a charity or charities of their choosing.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I grew up saying the N world and the F world until I knew better. I still hear it all the time and I never get bothered by it unless someone is using it in a hateful way. Thats just me. I dont get but hurt about stupid shit.

Okay, so you know better, so why should we not care when a professional athlete who has influence over younger generations of adolescents who look up to him says the word faggot?

SuperBonk: Just because you hear it sometimes said in a different manner does not mean faggot has evolved to anything other than 'gay person'. If you bring it up in any conversation randomly I'm pretty sure the shocked looks are the fact that it's a homosexual slur. People don't automatically attach other meanings to 'faggot', aside from these colloquial interpretations which actually marginalize gay people further by attaching things like 'asshole', 'stupid', 'dickhead', 'motherfucker' and other such meanings to gay people as well.

You see, when a word is a slur, any other meanings that become attached to it also become equivalent to the people the slur was originally aimed at.

 

[Kinitari]

Yeah, exactly. It's the connotation that's the problem.

Calling a white person a "nigger" in such a way connotes that the said person has negative qualities. Since "nigger" is used pretty much exclusively to refer to black people, it also implies that all black people share these negative qualities if only for the fact that they're black.

Calling a straight person (or presumably straight, in the case of this ref) a "faggot" in such a way that Kobe did connotes that the ref had negative qualities. Since "faggot" is used pretty much exclusively* to refer to gays, it also implies that all gay people share these negative qualities if only for the fact that they're gay.

*The argument being that "faggot" may not exclusively refer to gays. I would say that regionally and colloquially (in the US) it does not. However, historically and nationally, it does. My point being that in an ideal world, it should not be, just like with any other derogatory slur. I do not want to police syllables.

Yep I completely agree - I think this is the important thing to focus on. The idea that 'faggot' is an insult divorced from homosexuals, even when used in a non-homophobic context (A guy who is bad at sports is a faggot, lets say) - is ridiculous.

 

[LyleLanley]

False accusations do not exist in LyleLanleyLand. Utopia.

This is getting good.

 

[BakedPigeon]

Okay, so you know better, so why should we not care when a professional athlete who has influence over younger generations of adolescents who look up to him says the word faggot?

SuperBonk: Just because you hear it sometimes said in a different manner does not mean faggot has evolved to anything other than 'gay person'. If you bring it up in any conversation randomly I'm pretty sure the shocked looks are the fact that it's a homosexual slur. People don't automatically attach other meanings to 'faggot', aside from these colloquial interpretations which actually marginalize gay people further by attaching things like 'asshole', 'stupid', 'dickhead', 'motherfucker' and other such meanings to gay people as well.

You see, when a word is a slur, any other meanings that become attached to it also become equivalent to the people the slur was originally aimed at.

No little kid would even realized that what he said was "fucking faggot" until everyone slowed the film down and put this story under a microscope. It would have been water over the bridge.

 

[Londa]

Well these things are made up for a reason. But play pretend. You seem to think one word is worse than the other, so they shouldn't be compared - so this should be an easy answer for you - who should be more offended? And if you can, on a scale from 1 to 10, how offended should the black person be, and how offended should the gay person be? Black guy 9, gay guy 7? Maybe 6?

Hellooo? I never said one word was worse than the other. I said they are USED DIFFERENTLY.

Is it hard to see through all that anger?

 

[ZephyrFate]

Yep I completely agree - I think this is the important thing to focus on. The idea that 'faggot' is an insult divorced from homosexuals, even when used in a non-homophobic context (A guy who is bad at sports is a faggot, lets say) - is ridiculous.

Exactly. Faggot has never been divorced from a homosexual slur. Ever.

 

[Kinitari]

Read the article. Sheesh, looking for anything to cry over, huh? WTG. Since I apparently can't call them what they are really acting like, I'll just label them as pussies.

Sorry what? Are you saying this referee was being a 'faggot'?

 

[BitchTits]

I grew up saying the N world and the F world until I knew better.

Is your dad a Grand Dragon by any chance?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Read the article. Sheesh, looking for anything to cry over, huh? WTG. Since I apparently can't call them what they are really acting like, I'll just label them as pussies.

Not another one.

So faggot = pussy? Now what negative stereotype is that playing on? This thread has been plain depressing, and shown sides to GAF which I didn't think were there.

 

[Kinitari]

Hellooo? I never said one word was worse than the other. I said they are USED DIFFERENTLY.

Is it hard to see through all that anger?

Fair enough, you say they are different and shouldn't be compared, because black people use it among themselves lovingly, or something. My example still stands, I am comparing them to highlight that offence is doled out to both parties when each word is used as an insult. Do you disagree with the point?

And my rage is like a burning white light, it blinds me as much as it helps me see. Rawr

 

[TacticalFox88]

Hey what's going in he- JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE! What the fuck at this thread.

 

[commish]

How do some of you survive on Xbox Live, where the N bomb and F bomb are dropped as often as people say "the"?

 

[BakedPigeon]

Is your dad a Grand Dragon by any chance?

Is your aunt a spider by any chance?