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Kobe Bryant slinging homophobic slur during nationally televised NBA game
- Thread starter Aruarian Reflection
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Uh, mute? Are you guys defending the idiot kids on xbox live or psn or whatever that throw around slurs like candy? I think it's abhorrent, so I mute it - I don't like... spontaneously combust when I hear it. What do you people think, just because some people in this thread don't like it when slurs are thrown around, we can't function in society? What a weird idea.
Londa said:
That's a rather anachronistic way of looking at things. I mean, comparing what African Americans went through in the 1940s - 1970s to what gay people are going through in 2011?
Frankly, I agree that in the United States black people have a worse history of oppression given hundreds of years of slavery, pre-and-post Reconstruction terrorism, and political disenfranchisement through the 1960s. But let's not pretend that gay rights struggles started with wanting to get married. Before that, it was wanting to have trials where judges and juries wouldn't acquit young men who had murdered gay men because of an alleged sexual advance.
There were also vice units in major U.S. cities who would try to entrap gay men in order to arrest them for soliciting sex or follow couples home in order to try to catch them in the act of sex. There were also regularly raids on gay establishments, and police effectively blackmailing gay establishments to hold off on raids. In some states, such as California, there were laws on the books that made it so that those gay men who were arrested were sent to state prisons where doctors would show gay men pornographic pictures of nude men and then electrocute their penises until it stopped becoming aroused. The doctors claimed that it was psychological aversion - evidence showed that the penile tissue was actually burned and destroyed by the electricity to the point that an erection was physiological impossible. Doctors at these institutions also tried things like forced injection of panic-inducing drugs to bring the patient to the brink of death, forced injection of personality-altering drugs that induces psychosis and substantial brain damage, and experiments with lobotomies. And arrests were not uncommon - it has been estimated that tens of thousands of lgbt people were arrested during the 1950s alone, for instance.
For decades, there was also an official ban on gays in the federal government due to the Executive Order signed by Eisenhower. This Order (10450) resulted in nearly five thousand people losing their jobs between 1947 and 1950, then nearly 2000 per year in the early 1950s, and nearly 3000 people per year during the 1960s. There was also a commonly held belief that because of their mentally-ill and criminal nature, gay men and lesbians were not appropriate caregivers for parents, which meant that if gay person were to try to hide by getting married, if they were ever found out or later divorced, they would almost certainly lose all custody rights. There was also the problem that nearly 60% of the ballot initiatives and popular referenda that appeared in statewide ballots between 1959 and 1993 (I imagine this number might not be much lower if you were to include the post-gay marriage ballot initiatives era) were focused on the civil rights of lgbt people, and most of these were attempts to repeal laws prohibiting discrimination.
So, yes. Not so bad as slavery or the terrorism that targeted black people, but there was a good reason why in the 1970s, Huey Newton said, "And I know through reading, and through my life experience and observations that homosexuals are not given freedom and liberty by anyone in the society. They might be the most oppresed people in the society."
Also, to be fair, I think that most people are not trying to say that the two situations are completely analogous, but that there are parallels (for instance, black people were once not even allowed to marry one another, let alone white people; so gay people see a parallel there; or gay people also know that black people had to deal with it being legal to discriminate against them in housing or employment, and they see that as a parallel with trying to make it illegal to discriminate against gay people in employment or housing). I don't think it is meant to be a suggestion that not being able to get married is the same as facing firehoses and attack dogs while trying to get the vote.
Kinitari said:
There's been lots of mindboggling views expressed in this thread.
One of my mates was saying the other week how homophobia is still the acceptable form of discrimination, because of how casually people still throw the words around. That the mindset is still there that being gay is a worse thing to be, makes a man less of a man, and is the ultimate attack on his masculinity. This thread has confirmed that.
Depressing.
commish said:Some of you sure do like twisting people's words and acting like the victim at every chance.You're right. I'm defending the xbox tards and I really do wonder how you survive in society.
I didn't make statements, I asked questions - Are you defending the use of slurs on xboxlive? Do you think we cannot function? Don't have to be snarky, you can just answer the question - that's all I could pull from that post. Maybe you want to clarify so I don't have to come to the wrong conclusion?
Gamer98 said:
This is another weird thing - why come into a thread proclaim how stupid it is, and ask everyone stop talking about the subject matter. You don't see me running into the evolution thread, saying it's dumb, and asking people to stop talking about it... maybe because I made the thread, but my point stands.
EricHasNoPull
Banned
EricHasNoPull said:
.
Masked Man
I said wow
robidomask said:
It pains me to hear this, and I'm really sorry that you encountered such discrimination. :/ As I mentioned, the comparison was raised not to compare the history of each minority, but rather to illustrate that both words function as derogatory terms. It doesn't really matter which is more offensive, or which connotes a more violent/lengthy/disturbing history of oppression--both are pejoratives. I'm sorry if that point was misconstrued.
More to the topic at hand, Kinitari already said this, but I will reiterate: the word "faggot" has never been divorced from its negative associations with (male) homosexuality. Simple as that.
ghostofsparta
Member
37 pages on Kobe saying fag? Wow some of you people are unbelievable.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Gaborn said:
Have you ever seen other fines given out by the NBA?
sk3 said:
It's not about the money, it's about the message that is sent. When a player is earning millions upon millions they're not going to be affected by a tiny fine. A non-superstar player however fined similarly WOULD be disproportionately hurt. I would MUCH prefer the NBA adopt a system closer to the NFL which has been more willing lately to adopt fines equivalent to game checks rather than a set number.
numble said:
you're bringing up examples from an older era, players in recent years are not allowed to contact the referee in anger, players have been suspended for doing so in recent years.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5742016
They wouldn't have gotten off without a suspension nowadays.
Yeah but the people's attitude is because the people that are outraged by his comment and are calling for his head. He's an asshole who said a stupid word and was punished accordingly by the NBA. He issued an apology, now let's move on. But yet, this isn't good enough for some posters, so what would be good enough?Kinitari said:
Kintaco said:
I think the point is in the message sent as in Kobe shouldn't say such a word, heated or not. Whether he pays a fine and apologize is irrelevant. He used a word that has insulted a minority and for that he needs to understand that his actions have consequences and that he shouldn't use said language. Though as a side note, was the ref actually gay?
I think the $100,000 fine is based on his high salary and high profile, when you consider that fines against players usually are $10-$25k, and usually for hurting people physically, with usually $5k for cursing at refs.
Kenyon Martin said this in 2009, and wasn't fined. You can hear it on camera too, not just lip reading:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jgxlPfSr-0
Kenyon Martin said this in 2009, and wasn't fined. You can hear it on camera too, not just lip reading:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jgxlPfSr-0
dream said:
Looks more like a "you should be morally outraged" contest. Half the posts don't think it's [the fine] warranted, the other half disagrees. I'm far from a Kobe fan and straight up hate the Lakers and their fans, but you can put me in the "he shouldn't have been fined" camp.
Dahellisdat
Member
Does the NBA or TV network have written rules about stuff like this? If they they do, then fine him or punish him according to the rules. If not then forget about it. You can be outraged all you want, but this shit is a trivial, albeit offensive, expression of free speech that I don't think in any way was an intentional bashing of homosexuality.
As it stands, Kobe is not going to be suspended (thank goodness for plain old common sense) and is facing a maximum fine of $100,000 (which he is appealing, so it could be, and should be, less than that).
So please, no more calls for $1,000,000 fines. Or multiple game suspensions. It ain't happening.
The man has no obligation to do anything besides play ball. He's not going to become a spokesperson for glaad or begin doing PAs against thos type of behavior.
So please, quit with the persecution talk and get a hold of yourselves.
So please, no more calls for $1,000,000 fines. Or multiple game suspensions. It ain't happening.
The man has no obligation to do anything besides play ball. He's not going to become a spokesperson for glaad or begin doing PAs against thos type of behavior.
So please, quit with the persecution talk and get a hold of yourselves.
ZephyrFate
Banned
You would be totally and completely and utterly wrong.yacobod said:
Gaborn said:
Not disagreeing with you Gaborn, but usage of the "n word" by non black (and latino) figures in the American music/entertainment/sports industries has been looked down upon for a couple of decades now. In other words, there has been plenty of time (generations) for this word to be removed from people's vocabularies, including Kobe's (if he was a white person who said the "n word").
The "f word" however has only been socially unacceptable in the mainstream media for a couple of years. Kobe and many others are part of a generation where it was at one time ok to say the "f word" and it was promoted in the American media and society as a whole. While both words should be completely removed from our vocabularies, the "f word" still needs a couple of years to be truly rooted out the same way as the "n word". I do agree that both words should have the same punishments, but I don't think it's fair to compare Kobe's usage of the "f word" to someone using the "n word" in today's time period and that it's ok to "vilify" him in the same way. Maybe in 5-10 years the comparison will be fair I think.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Villifying the word now will make it harder for people to say it in the future. We should start now so it becomes a word that nobody uses.
Phonomezer
Banned
How anyone can be offended by this is absurd.
ZephyrFate
Banned
god i know how can anyone be offended by a homosexual slurPhonomezer said:
i mean
really
do homosexuals even exist?
ZephyrFate said:
The word, yes, I agree. I was referring more to whether or not we vilify the actual people still using it the word today. I feel like people in Kobe's case are just being insensitive/need to learn better words. We shouldn't necessarily label Kobe homophobic for using that word, vs someone who used an ethnic slur in the same context who we'd label a racist.
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