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[Jamesfrom818]

It seems I can find a history for Faggot too, maybe you should learn how to use Google search

Keep blaming gay people and see how much of a douchebag you come across as.

Jamesfrom818: You should be arguing against the usage of the n-word, then, as it has an intrinsic double standard recognized by everyone.

It is a regrettable word that is still used in the black community but there isn't really anything I can do about that. I'm Filipino. I fight the ching chong chung bullshit.

 

[ZephyrFate]

It is a regrettable word that is still used in the black community but there isn't really anything I can do about that. I'm Filipino. I fight the ching chong chung bullshit.

Good man.

But I still find the ching chong chung thing funny

 

[Mumei]

If the LGBT community wants the word to be wiped from our vocabulary, maybe they should start by cleaning their own house before cleaning others.

Wrong. The meaning changes depending on the speaker and delivery. The same thing applies to black people and 'nigger' (well 'nigga,' I suppose, but it's essentially the same word with a different pronunciation). It's a double-standard borne out of in-group privileges.

And the only differences between the words are that people think that one is socially acceptable and the other isn't and that one applies to an invisible minority, so people use it on non-members to cast aspersions on them.

 

[aktham]

Keep blaming gay people and see how much of a douchebag you come across as.

I'm not blaming anybody. I just think it ridiculous that some gays want to ride other group's struggle and make it their own.

 

[Rorschach]

Oh, that silly rapist.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I'm not blaming anybody. I just think it ridiculous that some gays want to ride other group's struggle and make it their own.

We're not 'riding' anything. The minority struggle is ubiquitous and yes, is indeed shared because gays are in the exact same position blacks were 50 years ago. We're struggling to get equal rights such as adopting kids, giving blood, getting married, all that jazz.

To make them different is to create disunity amongst the fight for equal rights, which actually hurts the cause and is the reason why so many people divide blacks and gays from each other when they should be united.

 

[aktham]

We're not 'riding' anything. The minority struggle is ubiquitous and yes, is indeed shared because gays are in the exact same position blacks were 50 years ago. We're struggling to get equal rights such as adopting kids, giving blood, getting married, all that jazz.

To make them different is to create disunity amongst the fight for equal rights, which actually hurts the cause and is the reason why so many people divide blacks and gays from each other when they should be united.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Keep on being completely deluded, then. I love how the Civil Rights Movement for blacks is somehow completely different than the current Civil Rights Movement for gays.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Seriously, you're better off giving up.

 

[thetechkid]

Keep on being completely deluded, then. I love how the Civil Rights Movement for blacks is somehow completely different than the current Civil Rights Movement for gays.

Because it is.

 

[kehs]

We're not 'riding' anything. The minority struggle is ubiquitous and yes, is indeed shared because gays are in the exact same position blacks were 50 years ago. We're struggling to get equal rights such as adopting kids, giving blood, getting married, all that jazz.

To make them different is to create disunity amongst the fight for equal rights, which actually hurts the cause and is the reason why so many people divide blacks and gays from each other when they should be united.

Disgusting affront to history.

You should be ashamed.

 

[Mumei]

The minority struggle is ubiquitous and yes, is indeed shared because gays are in the exact same position blacks were 50 years ago. We're struggling to get equal rights such as adopting kids, giving blood, getting married, all that jazz.

... Zephyr, it's really not the exact same position. Black people in the 1960s were far more disadvantaged than gay people are in 2011 no matter how you slice it (politically, socially, legally, what-have-you).

 

[richiek]

There's a large difference between how the rest of the world uses it, and how a select few gay people use it as perhaps an endearing or mocking way.

Maybe other people should never fucking use it, and shut the fuck up. We are going to move away from the 'let's blame gay people for the power of the word faggot' diatribe, because it's honestly homophobic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation

My brother in law is Chinese, and he and his friends often use the word "chink" in much the same way as some blacks use "nigga" or gays "faggot"

 

[Omiee]

We're not 'riding' anything. The minority struggle is ubiquitous and yes, is indeed shared because gays are in the exact same position blacks were 50 years ago. We're struggling to get equal rights such as adopting kids, giving blood, getting married, all that jazz.

To make them different is to create disunity amongst the fight for equal rights, which actually hurts the cause and is the reason why so many people divide blacks and gays from each other when they should be united.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW HAHAHA

this thread is getting better and better. Are you kidding me, since when do gay people have to sit in the back of the bus, drink from a different place, not dine or drink in the same place as others. now i know gay's are having a hard time, but believe me the world has changed a lot. Alot of country's are letting gay people marry and have kids. In no way is your situation as bad as black people had it 50 or 60 years ago.

Also you should be ashamed of yourself to compare the situation of gay people to the situation black people had. Because you know damnn well how good you have it in comparison to them. You can walk freely, work where ever you want and do what ever you want.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Amazing.

 

[Kinitari]

Threads that get this big generally have repeated arguments, because new people come in and I honestly can't blame them for not reading the entire thread.

So I'm going to restate my position -

I feel as though faggot is pretty much just as abhorrent as any other derogatory slur associated with a minority group, it's intention is the same really - to en-masse demean and belittle a group of people. I also understand that some people in said minority groups use these words among themselves, I am assuming in a way to 'remove the power' from the word. Gay people sometimes call each other faggots, black people call each other niggers - it happens. But I don't think that by doing this, you remove the offensive power of the word for everyone - a lot of black people will still be offended when black and non black people alike use the word nigger, and the same goes for homosexuals and faggot.

What it boils down to really is, do you want to use that word and risk extremely offending a minority group that really doesn't deserve it. There are some groups I honestly have no problem offending (extreme religious groups, ie, Phelps family) - and there are other groups I would rather not offend (homosexuals, and other innocent minorities who's association with each other is simply superficial). To the people in this thread who sometimes use the word faggot as an insult not aimed at homosexuals (but an insult none the less) if you do not want to insult a lot of homosexuals, try to remove that word from your vocabulary - it's probably the easiest solution to the problem - you shouldn't pridefully hold on to the word if it means nothing to you and you understand it hurts a minority of people you probably don't want to hurt. If you don't care if you insult homosexuals, or other people in general with your language, well I don't think there is any real point in arguing with you, your opinion is your own. But if you think that faggot is special, that it is a slur that no longer or should no longer insult homosexuals, well... sorry, it doesn't work that way.

 

[Omiee]

Ok i might get killed for this and some people might hate me for life in here but im going to say this.
For me personally the word niger ( keep in mind im not a black person ) weighs more than the word f...
Now this can be because, choosing that way of life is forbidden in my religion, but i think its more than that. Over the past few decades even century's, the word nigger was used to not only hurt people but because people did no find that race equal to them.
I do think the fa.. word should not be used, but its no way as bad as the n word.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Ok i might get killed for this and some people might hate me for life in here but im going to say this.
For me personally the word niger ( keep in mind im not a black person ) weighs more than the word f...
Now this can be because, choosing that way of life is forbidden in my religion, but i think its more than that. Over the past few decades even century's, the word nigger was used to not only hurt people but because people did no find that race equal to them.
I do think the fa.. word should not be used, but its no way as bad as the n word.

This is another argument entirely.

And the two words both come from the same place - not equating them, but they are both used to demean and belittle a group of people, as countless posters have said in this thread.

 

[Gaborn]

Ok i might get killed for this and some people might hate me for life in here but im going to say this.
For me personally the word niger ( keep in mind im not a black person ) weighs more than the word f...
Now this can be because, choosing that way of life is forbidden in my religion, but i think its more than that. Over the past few decades even century's, the word nigger was used to not only hurt people but because people did no find that race equal to them.
I do think the fa.. word should not be used, but its no way as bad as the n word.

It's not a choice.

 

[Kinitari]

Ok i might get killed for this and some people might hate me for life in here but im going to say this.
For me personally the word niger ( keep in mind im not a black person ) weighs more than the word f...
Now this can be because, choosing that way of life is forbidden in my religion, but i think its more than that. Over the past few decades even century's, the word nigger was used to not only hurt people but because people did no find that race equal to them.
I do think the fa.. word should not be used, but its no way as bad as the n word.

You need to think this through, I will ask you a simple question. You call a black person a nigger, and a gay person a faggot. How much more offended should the black person be than the gay person? This isn't something that is objective and easy to measure - derogatory slurs are hurtful in general, and the exercise in measuring up the 'weight' of said slurs is an exercise in futility, it is the worst sort of competition.

 

[Omiee]

It's not a choice.

Im sorry for using those words. What i ment is: That i dont consider being gay a way of life, i ment choosing to live a gay life is a choise of life. Again what i mean is you could be gay and muslim and not be married to a man or date a man. Because in our religion its considered a test. Now that does not mean i judge people or condemn them, because i have a lot of friends and co-workers who are gay. I hope i phrased what i ment in a good way without offending anyone.

You need to think this through, I will ask you a simple question. You call a black person a nigger, and a gay person a faggot. How much more offended should the black person be than the gay person? This isn't something that is objective and easy to measure - derogatory slurs are hurtful in general, and the exercise in measuring up the 'weight' of said slurs is an exercise in futility, it is the worst sort of competition.

In my opinion when you call somebody a nigger it just more hurtful. Because it goes back century's of his forefathers and mothers being killed, lynched and enslaved because they were a certain race. Now while its true gay people are denied some rights others have, in my opinion those rights seem luxury's compared to the rights the black people used to want.
Gay people want to donate blood and have kids, black people wanted to be set free.

 

[Gaborn]

Im sorry for using those words. What i ment is: That i dont consider being gay a way of life, i ment choosing to live a gay life is a choise of life. Again what i mean is you could be gay and muslim and not be married to a man or date a man. Because in our religion its considered a test. Now that does not mean i judge people or condemn them, because i have a lot of friends and co-workers who are gay. I hope i phrased what i ment in a good way without offending anyone.

Fair enough, I understand what you're trying to say and I do respect your religious difficulties with this issue. It does seem sad though, to suggest that people either be celibate forever or go against their nature and try to live a lie.

 

[Omiee]

Fair enough, I understand what you're trying to say and I do respect your religious difficulties with this issue. It does seem sad though, to suggest that people either be celibate forever or go against their nature and try to live a lie.

Well you see it as difficulties, i dont. Thats because i truly believe in everything our book says. My opinion in the matter has changed though because i have friends who are gay so i changed my my perspective of it. But i still believe in what our book says: Which is choosing not to ''practice'' ( for lack of better word ) being gay. If i was born gay or i found out later i would still not date a man or marry a man because of my religion. So that's what i meant by choice of life. One of our versus clearly says, you have your beliefs and religion and we have our own. So i would never condemn people for being gay.

 

[numble]

Omiee, which country are you in again? Just curious.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Well you see it as difficulties, i dont. Thats because i truly believe in everything our book says. My opinion in the matter has changed though because i have friends who are gay so i changed my my perspective of it. But i still believe in what our book says: Which is choosing not to ''practice'' ( for lack of better word ) being gay. If i was born gay or i found out later i would still not date a man or marry a man because of my religion. So that's what i meant by choice of life. One of our versus clearly says, you have your beliefs and religion and we have our own. So i would never condemn people for being gay.

I think if you were in those shoes you'd struggle hard with that. If not - that's dedication.

 

[Omiee]

Omiee, which country are you in again? Just curious.

Holland, but my parents are not from here.

I think if you were in those shoes you'd struggle hard with that. If not - that's dedication.

I know, but i would be faithful to my beliefs. I mean i never touched a cigaret or a drink while a lot of my friends used to do it in front of me, because thats how i was raised. To respect and live by the way of our koran.
But hey that's my way of life, and anyone decides his way of life. We should respect it.

 

[Londa]

We're not 'riding' anything. The minority struggle is ubiquitous and yes, is indeed shared because gays are in the exact same position blacks were 50 years ago. We're struggling to get equal rights such as adopting kids, giving blood, getting married, all that jazz.

To make them different is to create disunity amongst the fight for equal rights, which actually hurts the cause and is the reason why so many people divide blacks and gays from each other when they should be united.

Do gays also have to carry around a permit to walk around freely in the south states? Are they not allowed to own land? Are they raped and murdered almost everyday? Do they get police dogs sicked on them?

I could go on. XD

 

[numble]

Holland, but my parents are not from here.

Ah, the first country to recognize same sex marriage.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Do gays also have to carry around a permit to walk around freely in the south states? Are they not allowed to own land? Are they raped and murdered almost everyday? Do they get police dogs sicked on them?

I could go on. XD

Those first two are kind of things that happened back in slavery days (and racial profiling STILL happens in the South). That didn't end 50 years ago, man. Stop trying to make the gay rights movement less than it is. I don't know why people feel this intrinsic need to separate gays from blacks.

btw lol black permit? What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[Kinitari]

In my opinion when you call somebody a nigger it just more hurtful. Because it goes back century's of his forefathers and mothers being killed, lynched and enslaved because they were a certain race. Now while its true gay people are denied some rights others have, in my opinion those rights seem luxury's compared to the rights the black people used to want.
Gay people want to donate blood and have kids, black people wanted to be set free.

I appreciate the response, but I feel like we aren't on the same page - you are comparing the struggles of homosexuals to the struggles of black people. I could use any insult. If I went up to a Muslim and said "fucking terrorist" - would that Muslim be hurt? Would he be more hurt than if I went up to a gay person and said "fucking faggot"?

More importantly, should we be trying to measure who was hurt more?

 

[Steelrain]

We're not 'riding' anything. The minority struggle is ubiquitous and yes, is indeed shared because gays are in the exact same position blacks were 50 years ago. We're struggling to get equal rights such as adopting kids, giving blood, getting married, all that jazz.

To make them different is to create disunity amongst the fight for equal rights, which actually hurts the cause and is the reason why so many people divide blacks and gays from each other when they should be united.

Oh ...oh wow. I just read that.

 

[Londa]

]Those first two are kind of things that happened back in slavery days (and racial profiling STILL happens in the South). That didn't end 50 years ago, man.[/B] Stop trying to make the gay rights movement less than it is. I don't know why people feel this intrinsic need to separate gays from blacks.

lol

Also where is it that I make gay rights movement less than it is? Looks to me you are belittling what blacks go through. Have you even gotten to know someone who is black? Are there many blacks where you live?


I think you should apply to the LGBT. If you aren't already apart of it.

To make them different is to create disunity amongst the fight for equal rights, which actually hurts the cause and is the reason why so many people divide blacks and gays from each other when they should be united.

I hope you know that a lot of gay males are on the down-low because being gay and black is not accepted very much in the community.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

I know, but i would be faithful to my beliefs. I mean i never touched a cigaret or a drink while a lot of my friends used to do it in front of me, because thats how i was raised. To respect and live by the way of our koran.
But hey that's my way of life, and anyone decides his way of life. We should respect it.

Gotta say I respect that level of devotion to your faith - I certainly couldn't do it!

Those first two are kind of things that happened back in slavery days (and racial profiling STILL happens in the South). That didn't end 50 years ago, man. Stop trying to make the gay rights movement less than it is. I don't know why people feel this intrinsic need to separate gays from blacks.

You're right in the extent that both are struggles for rights but the actual treatment of gays is hardly comparable to those things he mentioned. Surely you can see what he means.

 

[Kinitari]

lol

Also where is it that I make gay rights movement less than it is? Looks to me you are belittling what blacks go through. Have you even gotten to know someone who is black? Are there many blacks where you live?

Sometimes I wonder what it's like to really be targeted for my ethnicity. I am supposedly black, but I honestly can't remember more than one overt attack on me because of my ethnicity, and that was back when I was like... 11. It's probably because of where I live.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

this thread. oh my damn.

 

[PhoenixDark]

We're not 'riding' anything. The minority struggle is ubiquitous and yes, is indeed shared because gays are in the exact same position blacks were 50 years ago. We're struggling to get equal rights such as adopting kids, giving blood, getting married, all that jazz.

To make them different is to create disunity amongst the fight for equal rights, which actually hurts the cause and is the reason why so many people divide blacks and gays from each other when they should be united.

1961..? I think we agree on 90% of things in this thread, but I have to disagree here. That seems blatantly false given the complete segregation blacks faced in the early 60s. It's very hard to make comparisons in general here, just due to differences in appearance; regardless of being gay you can get a job, get a loan, etc. A black person couldn't even walk into the building to ask for a loan 50 years ago in many cases...

 

[Lebron]

Sometimes I wonder what it's like to really be targeted for my ethnicity. I am supposedly black, but I honestly can't remember more than one overt attack on me because of my ethnicity, and that was back when I was like... 11. It's probably because of where I live.

I'm from Texas. Oh, do I have stories.


And trying to compare to the civil rights movement? Man, this thread is hilarious.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I'm pretty sure people are getting fired from their jobs for being gay, being kicked out of bed and breakfasts' for being gay, can't get married, can't give blood, can't adopt, get beaten and killed and raped, are seen as less than human...

wait, no, this is totally different from the things black people went through.


Edit: I love the idea that comparing civil rights movements between blacks and gays somehow 'depreciates' blacks. What kind of fucked up reasoning is that? Must we make things superior and inferior, put 'levels of discrimination' to this shit? What the hell?

 

[Kinitari]

I'm from Texas. Oh, do I have stories.


And trying to compare to the civil rights movement? Man, this thread is hilarious.

Sometimes when my black friends complain about being discriminated against, I am like "Are you sure? This actually happens?" Apparently it still happens, but I never see it, honestly. I would assume some rural parts of Texas would be less than... uh... welcoming.

 

[Londa]

I'm from Texas. Oh, do I have stories.


And trying to compare to the civil rights movement? Man, this thread is hilarious.

ZephyrFate is rewriting history.

 

[ZephyrFate]

ZephyrFate is rewriting history.

It's okay, I know you don't give a shit at all about what gays go through. Or what they have gone through. Since the classical period, even.

 

[Door2Dawn]

I literally laughed out loud at this. Hooo boy.

 

[Londa]

Sometimes when my black friends complain about being discriminated against, I am like "Are you sure? This actually happens?" Apparently it still happens, but I never see it, honestly. I would assume some rural parts of Texas would be less than... uh... welcoming.

It happens more often in southern states. But I have noticed up north its more subtle.

It's okay, I know you don't give a shit at all about what gays go through. Or what they have gone through. Since the classical period, even.

I can feel your pain from my monitor. You are really over the top. Its like you must convert everyone to your thinking. If not, then they don't CARE! They don't give a SHIT! Their so CRUEL.

Trust me, if I didn't care, I would have said it already. Nice try at putting words in my mouth.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

btw lol black permit? What the fuck are you talking about?

In order to go anywhere other than their plantation blacks had to carry permits with them signed by their master.

And please, please stop comparing people's struggles. It is subjective.

You talk about how they are exactly the same yet you didn't know about the permits they have to carry around? I honestly think your just trying to compare the two for the sake of argument.

And no one here is saying that gays don't struggle for their way of life but when you go around comparing two different minorities, your bound to have people who think more strongly about one group than the other. And that doesn't automatically translate to they don't care.

 

[Omiee]

I appreciate the response, but I feel like we aren't on the same page - you are comparing the struggles of homosexuals to the struggles of black people. I could use any insult. If I went up to a Muslim and said "fucking terrorist" - would that Muslim be hurt? Would he be more hurt than if I went up to a gay person and said "fucking faggot"?

More importantly, should we be trying to measure who was hurt more?

You make a good point, it doesn't matter how much somebody is hurt or how big the impact is of a word. The impact it self should not exist.
Also i would not be offended or hurt if you called me a terrorist.
But the reason i can identify myself more with black people is because me and others had some of the same struggles here in holland. While not on the same level or even close it made me aware of how much the n.... word could be hurtful. Also watching and reading some books on the matter helped. Im a well educated guy with 2 bachelor degrees, but sometimes people tend to form an opinion about me when i come some places without even knowing me just because im an Arab.

Going back on topic, the n word and the f word are both hurtful words that should not be used. But also should not be put in the same class or level as each other. Because each word has a different history and struggle associated with it.

 

[ZephyrFate]

In order to go anywhere other than their plantation blacks had to carry permits with them signed by their master.

And please, please stop comparing people's struggles. It is subjective.

You talk about how they are exactly the same yet you didn't know about the permits they have to carry around? I honestly think your just trying to compare the two for the sake of argument.

I wouldn't compare the two if people didn't keep shitting on gay rights just because the fight for black rights was 'better' or 'more important' or whatever qualifier people want to add to make the two different.

Minority struggles are minority struggles. There shouldn't be a value judgment placed on them.

The reason I didn't know about the permits thing is that I was NEVER referring to slavery times. I clearly referred to post-slavery and Civil Rights Movement-era time periods, neither of which had 'black permits'.

edit: wow this is becoming a gays vs. blacks thread all over again. Yay.

 

[numble]

1961..? I think we agree on 90% of things in this thread, but I have to disagree here. That seems blatantly false given the complete segregation blacks faced in the early 60s. It's very hard to make comparisons in general here, just due to differences in appearance; regardless of being gay you can get a job, get a loan, etc. A black person couldn't even walk into the building to ask for a loan 50 years ago in many cases...

It wasn't until 1968 that the government made racially restrictive covenants (deeds that forbade the land from going to non-whites) illegal, and this established geographical segregation in places like Los Angeles and Chicago (places that aren't even considered as bad as the South) that continue to this day.

 

[Zeke]

Sometimes when my black friends complain about being discriminated against, I am like "Are you sure? This actually happens?" Apparently it still happens, but I never see it, honestly. I would assume some rural parts of Texas would be less than... uh... welcoming.

stay in the big cities and stay away from east texas and you're fine.

 

[Londa]

In order to go anywhere other than their plantation blacks had to carry permits with them signed by their master.

And please, please stop comparing people's struggles. It is subjective.

You talk about how they are exactly the same yet you didn't know about the permits they have to carry around? I honestly think your just trying to compare the two for the sake of argument.

And no one here is saying that gays don't struggle for their way of life but when you go around comparing two different minorities, your bound to have people who think more strongly about one group than the other. And that doesn't automatically translate to they don't care.

Notice how he has yet to answer my question on if he knows any black people are if they are many black people where he lives. lol

 

[Devolution]

I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice... But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King, Jr., said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere' ... I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King, Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brotherhood and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people.

Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Georgia, and St. Augustine, Florida, and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions.

Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood. This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group.

Yeah.