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[ZephyrFate]

Why, exactly? Faggot pretty much 100% always relates to a homosexual slur, even if you 'didn't intend it'.

 

[Kreed]

Why, exactly? Faggot pretty much 100% always relates to a homosexual slur, even if you 'didn't intend it'.

Because as I was saying to Gaborn, the "f word" was "cool" to say in American society and the media just a couple of years ago. You could listen to main stream music artists, tv shows, movies and hear this word being used and no one complained about it. It's only been the last couple of years that people finally started putting a stop to it and it's become a word that's unacceptable in mainstream society. Truthfully, that's not enough time for people who were using that "cool word" to remove it from their vocabularies in order for us to separate the "misinformed people" from the "homophobic people".

 

[Phonomezer]

god i know how can anyone be offended by a homosexual slur

i mean


really

do homosexuals even exist?

Yeah I am gay and mixed race, neither "faggot" or "nigger" being used off-the-cuff by somebody I don't know and couldn't give a shit about offends me. I've probably said WORSE to people I KNOW in stressful situations. If it were said with malice I would be singing a different tune.

I'm not referring to anyone here, but some people just need to grow a pair and harden up.

 

[bjb]

My god this outrage is laughable.

Anyone who's ever been to a sporting event at any level (highschool, college, pros) is going to hear "insensitive language". There's a reason why it's coined trash talk. It's not meant to be tasteful or politically correct. And it comes in all forms.

In this particular case, Kobe Bryant gets upset at someone, a guy he has a personal relationship with, and calls him a name. Yet people in this thread, members of GLAAD (and other seemingly attention starved groups) are -so offended- by this. Surely they're aware this takes place at almost every sporting venue. Yet this the first time it's becoming national news? Give it a rest.

As a season ticket holder of Orlando Magic games, I can assure you the word "faggot" is being thrown around on a nightly basis. By coaches, players, arena personnel and fans alike. Funny how I don't see anyone demanding apologies - or whining about it then.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

My god this outrage is laughable.

Anyone who's ever been to a sporting event at any level (highschool, college, pros) is going to hear "insensitive language". There's a reason why it's coined trash talk. It's not meant to be tasteful or politically correct. And it comes in all forms.

In this particular case, Kobe Bryant gets upset at someone, a guy he has a personal relationship with, and calls him a name. Yet people in this thread, members of GLAAD (and other seemingly attention starved groups) are -so offended- by this. Surely they're aware this takes place at almost every sporting venue. Yet this the first time it's becoming national news? Give it a rest.

As a season ticket holder of Orlando Magic games, I can assure you the word "faggot" is being thrown around on a nightly basis. By coaches, players, arena personnel and fans alike. Funny how I don't see anyone demanding apologies - or whining about it then.

/thread.

There's nothing more to it people. It happens. It may not be right. It may be insensitive. But fuck... it happens. So get over it.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Yeah I am gay and mixed race, neither "faggot" or "nigger" being used off-the-cuff by somebody I don't know and couldn't give a shit about offends me. I've probably said WORSE to people I KNOW in stressful situations. If it were said with malice I would be singing a different tune.

I'm not referring to anyone here, but some people just need to grow a pair and harden up.

Well if you are gay you should come chat and meet the rest of GayGAF in the Gay and Bisexual relationship thread, silly!

I, honestly, as much as I am against Kobe saying it, have no issue with the word faggot either. My best friend calls me at least once a week, but... I dunno, it became kind of an endearing term that I had little issue with.

But in the grand scheme of things, I'd rather people didn't use it in general.

 

[Gaborn]

The word, yes, I agree. I was referring more to whether or not we vilify the actual people still using it the word today. I feel like people in Kobe's case are just being insensitive/need to learn better words. We shouldn't necessarily label Kobe homophobic for using that word, vs someone who used an ethnic slur in the same context who we'd label a racist.

Why not? Growing up you're right, kids learn different words. Some kids internalize racist vocabulary (the David Dukes of the world) some internalize homophobic vocabulary (the Kobes of the world). The fact that you learned a particular word and grew up with a peer group and parents that found it acceptable to use does not mean it is in fact acceptable.

 

[Future PhaZe]

It's not about the money, it's about the message that is sent. When a player is earning millions upon millions they're not going to be affected by a tiny fine. A non-superstar player however fined similarly WOULD be disproportionately hurt. I would MUCH prefer the NBA adopt a system closer to the NFL which has been more willing lately to adopt fines equivalent to game checks rather than a set number.

Where exactly does this "proportionate" sentencing end exactly? Because there are thousands of crimes committed daily where the sentencing does not effect the wealthy either. For the message to get through as you say, should a speeding ticket for the super rich be a fine of 20 thousand dollars?

 

[Gaborn]

]Where exactly does this "proportionate" sentencing end exactly? Because there are thousands of crimes committed daily where the sentencing does not effect the wealthy either. [/B]For the message to get through as you say, should a speeding ticket for the super rich be a fine of 20 thousand dollars?

Sure. I wouldn't be opposed to, for example, instead of a flat fine for a speeding ticket make it a week's pay whether you're a CEO or a dish washer. For the unemployed say $100.

But we're not talking about the "real" world. We're talking about highly paid athletes.

 

[Kreed]

Why not? Growing up you're right, kids learn different words. Some kids internalize racist vocabulary (the David Dukes of the world) some internalize homophobic vocabulary (the Kobes of the world). The fact that you learned a particular word and grew up with a peer group and parents that found it acceptable to use does not mean it is in fact acceptable.

But you're referring to a scenario where kids could still learn words that haven't been acceptable in society for decades and thinking the word is acceptable because their family/peer groups used it. In this scenario it is justified to label them as racists/homophobic/misogynistic, etc...

With the "f word" however, this word was acceptable in society just a couple of years ago. I'm talking about TV shows, music, movies promoting and using that word as if it was ok and teaching kids and adults that it was ok to say. It was only a couple of years ago where you could listen to a main stream music artist or cut on your favorite TV show and hear these entertainers saying the "f word" freely in the "that's so stupid" context with no consequences. It's only been the last couple of years that society is saying no to these words being acceptable. But it takes more than a couple of years for "brain washing" like that to go away from people's minds.

 

[Gaborn]

But you're referring to a scenario where kids could still learn words that haven't been acceptable in society for decades and thinking the word is acceptable because their family/peer groups used it. In this scenario it is justified to label them as racists/homophobic/misogynistic, etc...

With the "f word" however, this word was acceptable in society just a couple of years ago. I'm talking about TV shows, music, movies promoting and using that word as if it was ok and teaching kids and adults that it was ok to say. It was only a couple of years ago where you could listen to a main stream music artist or cut on your favorite TV show and hear these entertainers saying the "f word" freely in the "that's so stupid" context with no consequences. It's only been the last couple of years that society is saying no to these words being acceptable. But it takes more than a couple of years for "brain washing" like that to go away from people's minds.

What regular TV show used the word "faggot" in a general context? I'm not talking about HBO or something. No mainstream show has used it as anything except a gay slur.

 

[methos75]

What regular TV show used the word "faggot" in a general context? I'm not talking about HBO or something. No mainstream show has used it as anything except a gay slur.

Not true, I re-watched Married with Children on Netflix a few weeks back and it was used a few times within its run

 

[oneHeero]

Sure. I wouldn't be opposed to, for example, instead of a flat fine for a speeding ticket make it a week's pay whether you're a CEO or a dish washer. For the unemployed say $100.

But we're not talking about the "real" world. We're talking about highly paid athletes.

So lets treat them different? But let's hold them to moral superiority?

 

[methos75]

But you're referring to a scenario where kids could still learn words that haven't been acceptable in society for decades and thinking the word is acceptable because their family/peer groups used it. In this scenario it is justified to label them as racists/homophobic/misogynistic, etc...

With the "f word" however, this word was acceptable in society just a couple of years ago. I'm talking about TV shows, music, movies promoting and using that word as if it was ok and teaching kids and adults that it was ok to say. It was only a couple of years ago where you could listen to a main stream music artist or cut on your favorite TV show and hear these entertainers saying the "f word" freely in the "that's so stupid" context with no consequences. It's only been the last couple of years that society is saying no to these words being acceptable. But it takes more than a couple of years for "brain washing" like that to go away from people's minds.

Emimem comes to mind

 

[ZephyrFate]

So lets treat them different? But let's hold them to moral superiority?

Their influence means that what they say SHOULD be held to a higher standard.

 

[JLG-]

What regular TV show used the word "faggot" in a general context? I'm not talking about HBO or something. No mainstream show has used it as anything except a gay slur.

http://youtu.be/3yZYJSy3N6A

 

[Gaborn]

Their influence means that what they say SHOULD be held to a higher standard.

Indeed. Part of being a professional athlete, ESPECIALLY a super star is being in the public spotlight and being the face of your team.

JLG - indeed. That is one of the definitions.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Everyone who gets up in arms over a word is going about things the wrong way. You are only empowering the pejorative power of that word. If you really want to do something positive about it use the word in a different manner. Why not refer to cigarettes as fags? Or say you feel absolutely gay when you wake up to a beautiful morning and great cup of coffee? If you use if often enough around the people you're close to maybe it will catch on. Take back those words by using them in a positive or neutral context.

 

[Gaborn]

Everyone who gets up in arms over a word is going about things the wrong way. You are only empowering the pejorative power of that word. If you really want to do something positive about it use the word in a different manner. Why not refer to cigarettes as fags? Or say you feel absolutely gay when you wake up to a beautiful morning and great cup of coffee? If you use if often enough around the people you're close to maybe it will catch on. Take back those words by using them in a positive or neutral context.

Let's reverse the situation. Let's say the ref walking away from Kobe had said "Fucking nigger." what should his punishment have been?

 

[LegendofJoe]

Let's reverse the situation. Let's say the ref walking away from Kobe had said "Fucking nigger." what should his punishment have been?

I don't want to debate hypothetical situations, but I would say nothing.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Not true, I re-watched Married with Children on Netflix a few weeks back and it was used a few times within its run

I have mixed feelings about this whole thing.
For example, why does a word that was OK to use in prime time television for so many years now warrant a $100,000 fine when used on a basketball court in the heat of a game?
At the same time, I completely understand why people can be offended by it.

 

[Gaborn]

I don't want to debate hypothetical situations, but I would say nothing.

Somehow I doubt that the NBA would agree and I suspect there would be uniform outrage.

 

[numble]

Let's reverse the situation. Let's say the ref walking away from Kobe had said "Fucking nigger." what should his punishment have been?

I think they actually sometimes say this to the refs (especially Kevin Garnett, there's that famous video of him on the bench calling the other team the N word), and the ref gives them a technical foul or kicks them out. They also say misogynistic things towards Violet Palmer, and she'll T them up or kick them out.

Edit: Oh, you mean the ref saying it? The ref should not have ANY emotions toward the players, because that obviously means they,re not going to call fouls straight.

 

[Gaborn]

I think they actually sometimes say this to the refs (especially Kevin Garnett, there's that famous video of him on the bench calling the other team the N word), and the ref gives them a technical foul or kicks them out. They also say misogynistic things towards Violet Palmer, and she'll T them up or kick them out.

Edit: Oh, you mean the ref saying it? The ref should not have ANY emotions toward the players, because that obviously means they,re not going to call fouls straight.

Indeed. And players should not engage the refs in any sort of verbal argument. Garnett's comment as you said were towards the other TEAM. Kobe's comment was towards a ref.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Somehow I doubt that the NBA would agree and I suspect there would be uniform outrage.

Most likely, but if the intent to harm isn't there things like this should be ignored. They aren't worthy of public attention.

 

[Darkman M]

Why not? Growing up you're right, kids learn different words. Some kids internalize racist vocabulary (the David Dukes of the world) some internalize homophobic vocabulary (the Kobes of the world). The fact that you learned a particular word and grew up with a peer group and parents that found it acceptable to use does not mean it is in fact acceptable.

Oh wow we are comparing Kobe Bryant to David Duke now? Seriously? This thread has become a complete joke.

 

[aktham]

Why are the words "faggot" and "nigger" even being compared? This forum makes me scratch my head sometimes.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Why are the words "faggot" and "nigger" even being compared? This forum makes me scratch my head sometimes.

Derogatory, pejorative slurs with history and context in American society. Why not? They're fundamentally the same. Get a clue.

 

[Gaborn]

Oh wow we are comparing Kobe Bryant to David Duke now? Seriously? This thread has become a complete joke.

No, I'm just saying they both got their vocabulary from the same place. Just because they didn't learn such language was inappropriate does not in fact justify them using it.

 

[numble]

Indeed. And players should not engage the refs in any sort of verbal argument. Garnett's comment as you said were towards the other TEAM. Kobe's comment was towards a ref.

It's worse when a ref has bias, because he can kick people out or call fouls on you, getting you benched, or not calling it when other players foul you.

Players can't really do anything to the refs but plead their cases.

 

[LegendofJoe]

It's worse when a ref has bias, because he can kick people out or call fouls on you, getting you benched, or not calling it when other players foul you.

Players can't really do anything to the refs but plead their cases.

It's funny you say this. I've always compared referees to government regulators. Everyone hates them, they're prone to error, there is always potential for bias, and they're paid very little to do a necessary, thankless job.

 

[Gaborn]

It's worse when a ref has bias, because he can kick people out or call fouls on you, getting you benched, or not calling it when other players foul you.

Players can't really do anything to the refs but plead their cases.

Well sure. and I shouldn't have said "no verbal argument" because of course they can and SHOULD be able to plead their case. What I MEANT to say is that banter between players and trash talk is to a certain extent part of the game. Trashing a ref especially with personal slurs is not and should not be endorsed especially with certain words.

 

[JLG-]

It's worse when a ref has bias, because he can kick people out or call fouls on you, getting you benched, or not calling it when other players foul you.

Players can't really do anything to the refs but plead their cases.

Yup, and lets not forget about a week ago, a ref told a player to "stop being a little bitch."

 

[numble]

Well sure. and I shouldn't have said "no verbal argument" because of course they can and SHOULD be able to plead their case. What I MEANT to say is that banter between players and trash talk is to a certain extent part of the game. Trashing a ref especially with personal slurs is not and should not be endorsed especially with certain words.

And there's been no endorsement. Refs throw people out all the time for doing so, they even throw fans out. Kobe was talking to himself on the bench anyway, but he was caught on camera. He got a $100,000 fine, which is huge, 4x the amount Duncan got for actually shouting expletives at a ref and challenging the ref to a fight.

 

[aktham]

Derogatory, pejorative slurs with history and context in American society. Why not? They're fundamentally the same. Get a clue.

You can't be serious :lol What's the "history" of faggot exactly? It's just like calling a female a cunt. It doesn't have a history.

It's not like Kobe gave an anti-gay speech. I don't think he should have been fined in the first place. Apology should have been enough.

Gay people = stop giving this word so much power and stop using "nigger" as your anchor.

 

[Gaborn]

You can't be serious :lol What's the "history" of faggot exactly? It's just like calling a female a cunt. It doesn't have a history.

It's not like Kobe gave an anti-gay speech. I don't think he should have been fined in the first place. Apology should have been enough.

Gay people = stop giving this word so much power and stop using "nigger" as your anchor.

This isn't true at all. Do a little reading.

 

[ZephyrFate]

You can't be serious :lol What's the "history" of faggot exactly? It's just like calling a female a cunt. It doesn't have a history.

It's not like Kobe gave an anti-gay speech. I don't think he should have been fined in the first place. Apology should have been enough.

Gay people = stop giving this word so much power and stop using "nigger" as your anchor.

Oh, I'm sorry, there is history behind the word cunt

Faggot derives from a history of machismo and anti-feminine attitudes towards men that was and still is commonly attributed to homosexuals.

Oh really, WE'RE giving the word power?! Way to blame the fucking victim. We can use 'nigger' as an anchor because of THIS fucking argument you're using right here. I guess black people shouldn't give the n-word so much power, right?

Get outta here.

 

[LyleLanley]

Woah, 38 pages.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

Oh, I'm sorry, there is history behind the word cunt

Faggot derives from a history of machismo and anti-feminine attitudes towards men that was and still is commonly attributed to homosexuals.

Oh really, WE'RE giving the word power?! Way to blame the fucking victim. We can use 'nigger' as an anchor because of THIS fucking argument you're using right here. I guess black people shouldn't give the n-word so much power, right?

Get outta here.

How often do you hear gay people call each other f****t and how often do you hear black people call each other n****r?

 

[ZephyrFate]

How often do you hear gay people call each other f****t and how often do you hear black people call each other n****r?

Honestly, pretty often actually.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

Honestly, pretty often actually.

If the LGBT community wants the word to be wiped from our vocabulary, maybe they should start by cleaning their own house before cleaning others.

 

[ZephyrFate]

If the LGBT community wants the word to be wiped from our vocabulary, maybe they should start by cleaning their own house before cleaning others.

There's a large difference between how the rest of the world uses it, and how a select few gay people use it as perhaps an endearing or mocking way.

Maybe other people should never fucking use it, and shut the fuck up. We are going to move away from the 'let's blame gay people for the power of the word faggot' diatribe, because it's honestly homophobic.

 

[aktham]

Oh, I'm sorry, there is history behind the word cunt

Faggot derives from a history of machismo and anti-feminine attitudes towards men that was and still is commonly attributed to homosexuals.

Oh really, WE'RE giving the word power?! Way to blame the fucking victim. We can use 'nigger' as an anchor because of THIS fucking argument you're using right here. I guess black people shouldn't give the n-word so much power, right?

Get outta here.

Can't view your link at work. It seems that you can find a history for cunt, but not faggot. Keep playing the victim and we'll see how far gay rights move along.

Here's what I learned today:

Kobe = This guy

 

[Jamesfrom818]

There's a large difference between how the rest of the world uses it, and how a select few gay people use it as perhaps an endearing or mocking way.

Maybe other people should never fucking use it, and shut the fuck up. We are going to move away from the 'let's blame gay people for the power of the word faggot' diatribe, because it's honestly homophobic.

I'd rather not have double standards when it comes to words.

I don't think I've ever heard of mentally challenged individuals calling each other retards.

 

[dream]

Here's what I learned today:

Kobe = This guy

There's actually a better than 50/50 chance Kobe enjoys anal sex though.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

If the LGBT community wants the word to be wiped from our vocabulary, maybe they should start by cleaning their own house before cleaning others.

I'll be sure to bring that up at our next meeting.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Can't view your link at work. It seems that you can find a history for cunt, but not faggot. Keep playing the victim and we'll see how far gay rights move along.

Here's what I learned today:

Kobe = This guy

It seems I can find a history for Faggot too, maybe you should learn how to use Google search

Keep blaming gay people and see how much of a douchebag you come across as.

Jamesfrom818: You should be arguing against the usage of the n-word, then, as it has an intrinsic double standard recognized by everyone.

 

[shuri]

Kobe wasnt like 'KILL ALL FAGGOTS ARHG ARHG', its just some typical trash talk. People are acting up because the dude is rich and high profile.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Kobe wasnt like 'KILL ALL FAGGOTS ARHG ARHG', its just some typical trash talk. People are acting up because the dude is rich and high profile.

Pretty much.

 

[Darkman M]

It seems I can find a history for Faggot too, maybe you should learn how to use Google search

Keep blaming gay people and see how much of a douchebag you come across as.

Jamesfrom818: You should be arguing against the usage of the n-word, then, as it has an intrinsic double standard recognized by everyone.

James isn't.. uhh never mind.