• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Kobe Bryant slinging homophobic slur during nationally televised NBA game

Status
Not open for further replies.

Londa

Banned
He apologizes but doesn't want to pay. Oh well.

He still apologized. But I believe the matter is already being handled by people who are in charge. Why get so up in arms? So many times others have been told hate slurs. No one charges those people. Those people have however, apologized to the public.
 
ZephyrFate said:
We're not 'riding' anything. The minority struggle is ubiquitous and yes, is indeed shared because gays are in the exact same position blacks were 50 years ago. We're struggling to get equal rights such as adopting kids, giving blood, getting married, all that jazz.

To make them different is to create disunity amongst the fight for equal rights, which actually hurts the cause and is the reason why so many people divide blacks and gays from each other when they should be united.

I never said that they can't be compared but calling them the "exact same position as blacks were 50 years ago" is bullshit and you all know it.

And then he goes back to say that they shouldn't be valued when that is exactly what he did? He's contradicting himself so heavily its not even funny and I'm starting to believe he doesn't even know what he is saying anymore.

ZephyrFate said:
I wouldn't compare the two if people didn't keep shitting on gay rights just because the fight for black rights was 'better' or 'more important' or whatever qualifier people want to add to make the two different.

Minority struggles are minority struggles. There shouldn't be a value judgment placed on them.

The reason I didn't know about the permits thing is that I was NEVER referring to slavery times. I clearly referred to post-slavery and Civil Rights Movement-era time periods, neither of which had 'black permits'.

edit: wow this is becoming a gays vs. blacks thread all over again. Yay.
 
Dead Man said:
Given the number of responses saying it should not be seen as derogatory, yes, a comparison is needed.
Those people were either trolls or genuinely people who felt there should be no bad response given the "context" that the word was used in. Although the word is highly offensive, like it or not, the word can be used in a different "context", unfortunately and the same goes for many other slurs/curses/vulgarities/etc. That does not take away from its offensiveness by any means, but it's true. Rather than compare it/analogize it to something else, couldn't you reinforce that the word is ultimately wrong to use with historical data, etc rather than compare it to a hypothetical situation that is not the topic at hand?

Kinitari said:
No one can look into the future, who could have guessed people would react the way they did? I still think it's a perfect example, and maybe peoples reaction's are indicative of that.

People were consistently saying things like "there is no negative connotation with the word faggot anymore" "or the context of using that insult is important" - rather than saying "no you are wrong" as a response, I personally felt the best way was to challenge it with a word that is very similarly used and has very similar effects on people. More than anything else, the desire to establish a pedestal in which black suffering should be placed has surprised me in this thread. I was expecting solidarity, not that.
No one can look into the future, and that's why I used the phrase "in hindsight."

Although I understand, comparing different people no matter of similar struggles/upbringing/statuses is going to cause trouble. Would you want to be compared to someone else? If you find flaws in that comparison, wouldn't you want to challenge that? Not just on the internet, but in real situations as well.

Throughout all this madness, I just hope we can agree on the fact that "faggot" is an offensive term, and Kobe was punished for his actions significantly.
 

Koodo

Banned
spindashing said:
In hindsight, was making such an analogy even worth it? The current conversation has deterred so far way from the original topic that you may as well rename the thread.

You did not need an analogy to make people realize that "faggot" is a word that should not be used; as I said before, it merely opened up another can of ugly worms when you compare it to another derogatory term for another minority group.
This supposed can of worms seems more of an agenda than an actual concern.

The discrimination of blacks is based on an arbitrary trait (race), the discrimination of women is based on an arbitrary trait (gender), the discrimination of gays is based on an arbitrary trait (sexual orientation).

It doesn't matter which group has suffered the most or the longest. The point is that all these groups are ultimately discriminated for the same reason. This is fact, and this is why many analogies between these groups are correct.

Nigger is an insult based on an arbitrary trait. Faggot is an insult based on an arbitrary trait. Pretending they are not comparable because the groups have suffered differently is woefully missing the point: they are both the same type of insults.


It's honestly very sad that some are even bringing up the amount of suffering as a reason to downgrade the impact of a discriminatory act against one group. You would think anyone who has been affected by discrimination would try to end all discrimination instead of injecting discrimination itself into the equality movement.
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
I am not sure, and I usually like to think the best of people, especially people I don't know - but I think I understand why some people are saying that what he is giving is a 'non apology'.

His first statement about what he said was a bit dismissive, less owning up to his language being wrong, and more apologizing for people being offended. The second bit of news about his attempts at making amends seemed more in line as to what 'should be expected'.

But - with people in positions like him, he has people... helping him with his image. I think some people immediately assume the worse, and think "Obviously every apology that comes out of his mouth now is going to be the apology he makes on behalf of his career, not because of any sincerity". I don't know if I would go that far, because then nothing he says or does can really truly be taken sincerely, so I'd rather just assume the best.
 

Zeke

Member
people actually thought they were going to get some hear felt apology? Of course it was a pr move and he more than likely doesn't give a fuck.
 

Ollie Pooch

In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Gaborn said:
"i'm sorry you were offended" is not an apology.
What do you want? A personal apology?

Also, what fine is appropriate?
“I applaud Kobe Bryant for his swift apology,” Solmonese announced in a press release. “We had a very sincere conversation in which he expressed his heartfelt regret for the hurt that his words caused. He told me that it’s never ok to degrade or tease, and that he understands how his words could unfortunately give the wrong impression that this is appropriate conduct.”
The guy fucked up. He has apologised to the appropriate people and is also being fined for his words. Dunno what more people want.
 
It's a non apology when he's appealing the fine. It's like saying "well I'm gonna say sorry, but please don't punish me whatsoever and I'll appeal it if you do"

aka I'm not learning my lesson
 
Gaborn said:
"i'm sorry you were offended" is not an apology.
No, no it's not.

Londa said:
They want him to be in paaaaaaaaaaaaaiiin.

edit: o_o $100,000 is small?
For someone who makes what he does? Yes, yes it is.

Anyway, it's truly pathetic to see that people are still defending the use of "faggot" and screaming bloody murder that anyone would have the audacity to simply compare gay peoples' struggle for equality and the civil rights movement.

And it's especially bizarre to see so many people come in only to post "why is this thread still going?" or "shut it down." What's the problem? You do know that posting in each and every thread on GAF is not, in fact, compulsory.

ZephyrFate said:
It's a non apology when he's appealing the fine. It's like saying "well I'm gonna say sorry, but please don't punish me whatsoever and I'll appeal it if you do"

aka I'm not learning my lesson
I wonder if he'll get mad enough to go rape someone.
 
Koodo said:
This supposed can of worms seems more of an agenda than an actual concern.

The discrimination of blacks is based on an arbitrary trait (race), the discrimination of women is based on an arbitrary trait (gender), the discrimination of gays is based on an arbitrary trait (sexual orientation).

It doesn't matter which group has suffered the most or the longest. The point is that all these groups are ultimately discriminated for the same reason. This is fact, and this is why many analogies between these groups are correct.

Nigger is an insult based on an arbitrary trait. Faggot is an insult based on an arbitrary trait. Pretending they are not comparable because the groups have suffered differently is woefully missing the point: they are both the same type of insults.


It's honestly very sad that some are even bringing up the amount of suffering as a reason to downgrade the impact of a discriminatory act against one group. You would think anyone who has been affected by discrimination would try to end all discrimination instead of injecting discrimination itself into the equality movement.
As I've said yesterday, the two terms are only similar in that they are derogatory terms that put down their respective minorities/communities.
 

Gaborn

Member
julls said:
What do you want? A personal apology?

"I'm sorry I said it."


Also, what fine is appropriate?

The guy fucked up. He has apologised to the appropriate people and is also being fined for his words. Dunno what more people want.

He should either be fined 2 game checks, or be suspended 1 game.
 

Dead Man

Member
spindashing said:
As I've said yesterday, the two terms are only similar in that they are derogatory terms that put down their respective minorities/communities.
Well, that is where a lot of people seem to disagree.
 

Ollie Pooch

In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
ZephyrFate said:
It's a non apology when he's appealing the fine. It's like saying "well I'm gonna say sorry, but please don't punish me whatsoever and I'll appeal it if you do"

aka I'm not learning my lesson
Fair enough - sorry, I overlooked the appealing of the fine.
 
spindashing said:
As I've said yesterday, the two terms are only similar in that they are derogatory terms that put down their respective minorities/communities.
So you saw Koodo's valid point, and you just ignored it entirely.

Nice work.
 
Londa said:
I'm trolling because I think 100,000 isn't small. You could have picked a better quote to target. o_O

Actually it was the statement before that. If you really think that's an apology, lol.

Dude couldn't even say the word he said was inappropriate and hurtful and that he was sorry for saying it, instead he says "I'm sorry people were offended." He sucks and his PR sucks.
 
ZephyrFate said:
We're not 'riding' anything. The minority struggle is ubiquitous and yes, is indeed shared because gays are in the exact same position blacks were 50 years ago. We're struggling to get equal rights such as adopting kids, giving blood, getting married, all that jazz.

To make them different is to create disunity amongst the fight for equal rights, which actually hurts the cause and is the reason why so many people divide blacks and gays from each other when they should be united.

I never said that they can't be compared but calling them the "exact same position as blacks were 50 years ago" is bullshit and you all know it.

And then he goes back to say that they shouldn't be valued when that is exactly what he did? He's contradicting himself so heavily its not even funny and I'm starting to believe he doesn't even know what he is saying anymore.

ZephyrFate said:
I wouldn't compare the two if people didn't keep shitting on gay rights just because the fight for black rights was 'better' or 'more important' or whatever qualifier people want to add to make the two different.

Minority struggles are minority struggles. There shouldn't be a value judgment placed on them.

The reason I didn't know about the permits thing is that I was NEVER referring to slavery times. I clearly referred to post-slavery and Civil Rights Movement-era time periods, neither of which had 'black permits'.

edit: wow this is becoming a gays vs. blacks thread all over again. Yay.

I'll just post this again.
 

Gamer98

Banned
Gaborn said:
He can at LEAST take his tiny fine (less than 1/3 of 1 game check) and walk away rather than a non apology and appealing it.

I understand that but he has his reasons. GAF, EVERYBODY HERE. LET. IT. GO. We are going to be Ok.
 

Londa

Banned
Mercury Fred said:
No, no it's not.


For someone who makes what he does? Yes, yes it is.

Anyway, it's truly pathetic to see that people are still defending the use of "faggot" and screaming bloody murder that anyone would have the audacity to simply compare gay peoples' struggle for equality and the civil rights movement.

And it's especially bizarre to see so many people come in only to post "why is this thread still going?" or "shut it down." What's the problem? You do know that posting in each and every thread on GAF is not, in fact, compulsory.


I wonder if he'll get mad enough to go rape someone.

I don't follow sports or know what one game nets a person like him. All I know is, to me that is a ton. Ok, cool he is going to appeal. Why not write him a angry email?
 

Dali

Member
ZephyrFate said:
I can't believe for once in my life I'm forced to root for Kobe.

ChocolateCupcakes said:
I never said that they can't be compared but calling them the "exact same position as blacks were 50 years ago" is bullshit and you all know it.

And then he goes back to say that they shouldn't be valued when that is exactly what he did? He's contradicting himself so heavily its not even funny and I'm starting to believe he doesn't even know what he is saying anymore.
He doesn't care how offensive his comparison is as long as it strengthens his cause. I've already gotten into with him about that shit.
 
Londa said:
I don't follow sports or know what one game nets a person like him. All I know is, to me that is a ton. Ok, cool he is going to appeal. Why not write him a angry email?
How is it 'cool' that he's going to appeal?

Thanks Dali, here to say a bunch of shit as usual.
 

Londa

Banned
Cubsfan23 said:
he's appealing to get it reduced, not wipe it out. Is it really gonna matter to gays if he pays 50k instead of 100k?

I'm starting to think that they want his first born. o_o

ZephyrFate said:
How is it 'cool' that he's going to appeal?

Thanks Dali, here to say a bunch of shit as usual.

Ok, cool is a saying. You are really serious lol
 

numble

Member
Londa said:
They want him to be in paaaaaaaaaaaaaiiin.

edit: o_o $100,000 is small?
$100,000 is huge for a fine for a player.
Here's a history of all fines. There has never been such a large fine for a player based purely on remarks made, let alone remarks made to himself on the bench.

In fact, it's the largest fine that the NBA has ever given to a player.
http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/fines.html#10-11

Just CTRL-F "000" to see all the money fines.
 
ZephyrFate said:
So you saw Koodo's valid point, and you just ignored it entirely.

Nice work.
Worry about conversating with ChocolateCupcakes and Londa, or didn't you have a party to get to?

Dead Man said:
Well, that is where a lot of people seem to disagree.
Yeah. And that's why we're in this shithole of a conversation...
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
spindashing said:
Those people were either trolls or genuinely people who felt there should be no bad response given the "context" that the word was used in. Although the word is highly offensive, like it or not, the word can be used in a different "context", unfortunately and the same goes for many other slurs/curses/vulgarities/etc. That does not take away from its offensiveness by any means, but it's true. Rather than compare it/analogize it to something else, couldn't you reinforce that the word is ultimately wrong to use with historical data, etc rather than compare it to a hypothetical situation that is not the topic at hand?


No one can look into the future, and that's why I used the phrase "in hindsight."

Although I understand, comparing different people no matter of similar struggles/upbringing/statuses is going to cause trouble. Would you want to be compared to someone else? If you find flaws in that comparison, wouldn't you want to challenge that? Not just on the internet, but in real situations as well.

Throughout all this madness, I just hope we can agree on the fact that "faggot" is an offensive term, and Kobe was punished for his actions significantly.

This may be a problem with me, I usually assume people are more likely to empathize than reject similarities. And the issue is, I was never comparing people - or comparing their struggles or their history, I know one or two people were, but I specifically avoided that just because I know how difficult such grounds can be to navigate. No, I just compared the words, and the effects those words carry. I know some of the posters I talked to were black, and I hoped they would have thought "You know what, even if Nigger was used out of a racial context, if it was still used as an insult, it would bother me. So I guess I can see how faggot would bother a gay person as well" - I was honestly surprised when, after how careful I was, I was still met with many upon many scoffs.

If people come away from this thinking to themselves "You know I didn't really think how much me using the word faggot might bother gay people, I guess I'll try to avoid it" then I'm happy. I couldn't care less about Kobe and his Lakes, I just wanted people to think on some things they probably weren't looking at too hard.
 
spindashing said:
Worry about conversating with ChocolateCupcakes and Londa, or didn't you have a party to get to?
I do, it's starting off a bit slow at the minute. But I'd love it if you could explain why Koodo's point isn't totally true.
 

etiolate

Banned
So are gay people upset at Stern for using their cause to punish the players union and make a business statement to the top dog before a contract negotiation?
 

SolKane

Member
I said it way back in this thread, but that it is Kobe Bryant who made this comment is really a non issue, IMO. It's indicative of a larger cultural issue, which is the active marginalization and discrimination against homosexuals in US society. Bryant states:

"The comment that I made, even though it wasn't meant in the way it was perceived to be, is nonetheless wrong, so it's important to own that."

It's pretty clear in this comment that he thinks he has no responsibility for the language he uses. The burden is evidently on those who are offended - they "perceived" his intentions wrong. But we all know what faggot means, and we know who this word targets. Even if, examining the situation, he was in that instance targeting the referee, he inadvertently targets and implicates homosexuals by using the word faggot. It doesn't matter whether or not he's aware of this (though clearly he does know, as any adult should, and even he admits that his comment was "wrong"), because the larger cultural context is one that operates independently of individual action and speech. One might argue he was attacking an individual with that word, and that his actions should be understood in this way. But that ignores the very essential fact, that he uses a word which when critically examined, is tied directly and specifically to a certain social group, i.e. homosexual men. This is a group of people that has been actively repressed by the government, political groups and fellow citizens for decades. We are ultimately not having a conversation about the meanings of words - but how those words relate to how are society is composed and how we understand it.

However Bryant is a sports player, and his masters are corporate sponsors. Do I expect much fallout over this? No, the sponsors will take care of him, perhaps punishing him superficially. The public will demand an act of contrition, and voila, he'll have plenty of new endorsements. Hell, he might get some new endorsements out of this anyway; homophobia is prevalent enough in society, it surely exists among corporate executives.
 

Dead Man

Member
numble said:
$100,000 is huge for a fine for a player.
Here's a history of all fines. There has never been such a large fine for a player based purely on remarks made, let alone remarks made to himself on the bench.
http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/fines.html#10-11

Just CTRL-F "000" to see all the money fines.
The guy earns 2 million a month. $100,000 is not the same for him as it is for regular people. If you earn $4000/m it would be like being fined $200.
 
Londa said:
I don't follow sports or know what one game nets a person like him. All I know is, to me that is a ton. Ok, cool he is going to appeal. Why not write him a angry email?
And to some people in the world, a dollar and a couple hot meals is a ton. Just go and read the thread, some Kobe fans were loling at the small amount in comparison to what he pulls in.

It's tacky and makes him seem like a complete douche for appealing the fine.

But to be fair, I guess he must need the extra dough for rohypnol, gags and restraints for his next victim.
 
ZephyrFate said:
I do, it's starting off a bit slow at the minute. But I'd love it if you could explain why Koodo's point isn't totally true.

I'd love it if you can explain this.

ZephyrFate said:
We're not 'riding' anything. The minority struggle is ubiquitous and yes, is indeed shared because gays are in the exact same position blacks were 50 years ago. We're struggling to get equal rights such as adopting kids, giving blood, getting married, all that jazz.

To make them different is to create disunity amongst the fight for equal rights, which actually hurts the cause and is the reason why so many people divide blacks and gays from each other when they should be united.

I never said that they can't be compared but calling them the "exact same position as blacks were 50 years ago" is bullshit and you all know it.

And then he goes back to say that they shouldn't be valued when that is exactly what he did? He's contradicting himself so heavily its not even funny and I'm starting to believe he doesn't even know what he is saying anymore.

ZephyrFate said:
I wouldn't compare the two if people didn't keep shitting on gay rights just because the fight for black rights was 'better' or 'more important' or whatever qualifier people want to add to make the two different.

Minority struggles are minority struggles. There shouldn't be a value judgment placed on them.

The reason I didn't know about the permits thing is that I was NEVER referring to slavery times. I clearly referred to post-slavery and Civil Rights Movement-era time periods, neither of which had 'black permits'.

edit: wow this is becoming a gays vs. blacks thread all over again. Yay.

You practically started this whole gay vs black thing. No one said they are not similar but the are not the same.
 

Dead Man

Member
SolKane said:
I said it way back in this thread, but that it is Kobe Bryant who made this comment is really a non issue, IMO. It's indicative of a larger cultural issue, which is the active marginalization and discrimination against homosexuals in US society. Bryant states:



It's pretty clear in this comment that he thinks he has no responsibility for the language he uses. The burden is evidently on those who are offended - they "perceived" his intentions wrong. But we all know what faggot means, and we know who this word targets. Even if, examining the situation, he was in that instance targeting the referee, he inadvertently targets and implicates homosexuals by using the word faggot. It doesn't matter whether or not he's aware of this (though clearly he is, as any adult should, and as he admits that his comment was "wrong"), because the larger cultural context is one that operates independently of individual action and speech. One might argue he was attacking an individual with that word, and that his actions should be understood in this way. But that ignores the very essential fact, that he uses a word which when critically examined, is tied directly and specifically to a certain social group, i.e. homosexual men. This is a group of people that has been actively repressed by the government, political groups and fellow citizens for decades. We are ultimately not having a conversation about the meanings of words - but how those words relate to how are society is composed and how we understand it.

However Bryant is a sports player, and his masters are corporate sponsors. Do I expect much fallout over this? No, the sponsors will take care of him, perhaps punishing him superficially. The public will demand an act of contrition, and voila, he'll have plenty of new endorsements. Hell, he might get some new endorsements out of this anyway; homophobia is prevalent enough in society, it surely exists among corporate executives.
I would like to know what way he MEANT the comment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom